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Thread: Sourdough

  1. #51
    Grand Master Griswold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mj2k View Post
    Will have to find an idiots guide to it, only got caputo, plain, self raising, strong white & spelt flour at the moment though


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    This guy makes it simple, interesting and fun....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FVfJTGpXnU&t=7s
    Best Regards - Peter

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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griswold View Post
    This guy makes it simple, interesting and fun....
    Cheers for that, did actually start one at lunch today. Will watch some videos as some of the recipe descriptions of shaping the dough I could still not fathom after the 3rd read.

  3. #53
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    Struggling to get my starter to do anything at all. It just makes hooch the whole time.

    Have thrown 3/4 away as was getting huge after all the feeding, not growth but simply the bulk I was adding daily.

    Have just fed with some spelt flour as my white strong wasn’t doing anything after nearly a week.

    Rapidly losing the will on this!

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mj2k View Post
    Struggling to get my starter to do anything at all. It just makes hooch the whole time.

    Have thrown 3/4 away as was getting huge after all the feeding, not growth but simply the bulk I was adding daily.

    Have just fed with some spelt flour as my white strong wasn’t doing anything after nearly a week.

    Rapidly losing the will on this!
    You don't just add flour when feeding.

    Firstly, you are only feeding once the volume has doubled. Then you discard 90%, take the remaining 10% and fill up with even amount of fresh flour (best is wholemeal) and water. The first round may take overnight, but the second or third round should rise within hours. You need about 30 degrees ambient temperature to get it really going. Use an Eski box and put a container with warm water into it or a light bulb, which serves as heating (LED won't work).

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    You don't just add flour when feeding.

    Firstly, you are only feeding once the volume has doubled. Then you discard 90%, take the remaining 10% and fill up with even amount of fresh flour (best is wholemeal) and water. The first round may take overnight, but the second or third round should rise within hours. You need about 30 degrees ambient temperature to get it really going. Use an Eski box and put a container with warm water into it or a light bulb, which serves as heating (LED won't work).
    Interesting, my first recipe was a scraping & not throwing away type. It wasn’t doing anything at all so am trying the 50% throw away. 90% feels a huge amount, but then you have a working starter & I don’t!

    Currently using the oven light to warm it. Might dig out my biltong box air dryer and use that to get the warmth.

    Thanks for the tips

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mj2k View Post
    Interesting, my first recipe was a scraping & not throwing away type. It wasn’t doing anything at all so am trying the 50% throw away. 90% feels a huge amount, but then you have a working starter & I don’t!

    Currently using the oven light to warm it. Might dig out my biltong box air dryer and use that to get the warmth.

    Thanks for the tips
    Oven light may work just as well.

    I have built a my own proofing box, using an IKEA kitchen cabinet with an electrical heating.


  7. #57
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    That looks great, also given me the idea of using my reptile warming patch I use for my seed growing.

    Think if I took over a cupboard my wife would be having words, but loving the commitment.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mj2k View Post
    That looks great, also given me the idea of using my reptile warming patch I use for my seed growing.

    Think if I took over a cupboard my wife would be having words, but loving the commitment.
    This was my first proofing box:



    Too small for boxes of pizza balls, so it had to go.

  9. #59
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    Damn, makes my version look really low rent! Might need to upgrade that too, mine is so flimsy & thin but good to know it works.

    Need to work out what temp my heating mat runs at to see if I need to create some heat barrier to lower the temp.

    1.5hrs with the oven light & I have bubbles forming. Not happy leaving the door jarred open overnight to keep the light on though.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mj2k View Post
    Damn, makes my version look really low rent! Might need to upgrade that too, mine is so flimsy & thin but good to know it works.

    Need to work out what temp my heating mat runs at to see if I need to create some heat barrier to lower the temp.

    1.5hrs with the oven light & I have bubbles forming. Not happy leaving the door jarred open overnight to keep the light on though.
    Mine was a little weak, had trouble maintaining 30 degrees. I replaced the heating with a stronger one (reptile mat) and added an electronic thermostat.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Mine was a little weak, had trouble maintaining 30 degrees. I replaced the heating with a stronger one (reptile mat) and added an electronic thermostat.
    Ok that is a very interesting addition. Thank you for sharing, looks like what I may need to perfect proving without it all getting daft.

    Cheers

  12. #62
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    I’m not having any issues with my starter at ambient room temperature. Feeding it with 50g either white or wholemeal flour and the same weight of water at roughly the same time each day, only pouring away approx one third if i’m not making a loaf in the coming days.

  13. #63
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    Why are people throwing starter away?

    It makes exceedingly good fried bread - just pour what you don't want into a storage vessel and keep it in the fridge, (it'll keep for a week). When you want to use it heat your frying pan, add a little oil and pour in your saved starter. Fry gently, turning once or twice for really tasty fried bread.

    Oh, and I've found that Atta Flour, (Chapati Flour), is even better than wholemeal as a feed for your starter.
    Best Regards - Peter

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  14. #64
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    Probably like when I did kefir for a few months. It was fun at the beginning but after a while I got bored of making it

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  15. #65
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    Just out of the oven.

    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Just out of the oven.
    Show off! Mine just didn’t grow or become active at all. Threw it away in a tantrum & started again with some different flour.

    Day 2 so too early to tell. Hoping to be more successful this time around.


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  17. #67
    had my first disaster loaf that looked great on the outside but had a massive empty chamber inside, down to proofing and i think i used too much flour on shaping and rolled a pocket into the middle of it.
    new flour turned up (shipton mill) and after doing some reading decided to change my method and do it by eye rathe than a rigid recipe/timings.
    did a white/rye mix and extended the proofing time and did 6 stretch and folds and longer gaps between the last 2 and left to prove in kitchen, took pics at intervals to see it change and left in fridge overnight. but the total time from mix/autolyse to going in the fridge was about 10 hours (it was cooler in kitchen then in recent weeks)
    turned out well from banneton and held it’s shape well and resulted in the best loaf yet with great taste and structure, not loads of spring but I’m using a deep sauté pan with a lid not a proper dutch oven.
    this is the second loaf with my newer method, 5th in total.


  18. #68
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    I am mixing the flours, this one contains both wholemeal as well as regular wheat and rye:




    The sourdough starter has been proving since 20 hours:




    Mixing it all together in the Ankarsrum:




    After five minutes the dough becomes smooth:




    Back into the proofing cabinet:




    After 90 minutes it looks like this:




    Balling up:




    And again into the proving cabinet:




    To be continued...

  19. #69
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    After an hour:




    Upside down:




    Baked:

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  20. #70
    I froze a few slices of my last loaf and had one today lightly toasted, I swear it was better than fresh, I’m going to bake twice this week and freeze half a loaf(sliced) so I never run out.
    don’t think I’ll ever buy bread again unless it some fancy loaf I want to try, have a soft spot for Gails spelt loaf with stout and honey.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    I froze a few slices of my last loaf and had one today lightly toasted, I swear it was better than fresh, I’m going to bake twice this week and freeze half a loaf(sliced) so I never run out.
    don’t think I’ll ever buy bread again unless it some fancy loaf I want to try, have a soft spot for Gails spelt loaf with stout and honey.
    I haven't bought a bread in more than six months. Every time I bake, I cut some of it into slices and freeze it. I agree on the superb taste of toasted frozen sourdough bread, just love it.
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  22. #72
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    That mixer looks superb, especially the second video!

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mj2k View Post
    That mixer looks superb, especially the second video!
    It is superb.

    https://ankarsrum.co.uk/

  24. #74
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    Extremely flexible in what it can do also. The way it kneads the dough is almost mesmerising.

    Probably need the kitchen aid to break first.


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  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Thanks Raffe, I've just spent the last 10 minutes googling this AMAZING looking contraption and figuring out which kitchen cupboard the other half wouldn't mind losing for a dough proofing area haha

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe1978 View Post
    Thanks Raffe, I've just spent the last 10 minutes googling this AMAZING looking contraption and figuring out which kitchen cupboard the other half wouldn't mind losing for a dough proofing area haha
    Sometimes it’s takes the guise of an extension, and at other times a garden shed. However.... if you get complaints about the baking making the kitchen too hot on those long mid summer days you should suggest the need for a ‘summer kitchen’.

    This way not only do you get a little place to call your own but... you will quickly find many gadgets and tools that you never knew you needed. The summer kitchen can easily handle a motorcycle lift, a pottery wheel, an oven, a fridge, one of those dough mixer things, an espresso machine and a tv with suitable sound system ... all in the same room.

    This way she doesn’t need to loose any of her counter space. You’re doing this for her remember !


    Failing that... make sure your summer kitchen also has ample room for a couch/bed/cot. You may need it.

  27. #77
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    I just need a larger garden! Or to invest more money to the area my BGE sits & make some form of permanent structure over & around it.

    Annoyingly her shed is also in the same area so she will be dragging lawnmowers & everything else through it.

    I see some of these outdoor kitchens & would love something like it. Perhaps when it’s our ‘forever’ house I can see it making sense. So that’s not until retirement!


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  28. #78
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    Just refreshing my sourdough:


  29. #79
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    Well after much failing with the starter, finally got my act together & bakes the first loaf yesterday.

    Very impressed, although always forget how hard the base is to cut through even with a relatively new global bread knife.

    Cutting with the lame was worse than expected, it just sort of tugged at the dough vs cutting which is what I expected. Must be technique required.






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  30. #80
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    Superb!
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  31. #81
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    That looks great! ^

  32. #82
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    Thanks, first dough I over prooved, as misread the part about putting in the fridge; that was a mess.

    As a first attempt am very happy, although I’m eating far more bread than I’m happy with given I’m trying to keep carbs away.

    This & pizzas are not helping too much!

  33. #83
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    Sourdough

    Ha, I’m not sure how I missed this thread. Like any good middle-class person in lockdown, I took to breadmaking having never dabbled before. Took me a few attempts to get really decent results but it’s a regular part of my week, now - I take the starter out of the fridge on Saturday, feed it, make up the dough early afternoon on Sunday and bake first thing Monday morning.

    I decided to have a go based on an article in the New Scientist (of all places) - they ran a series on “the science of food”, and one article was all about sourdough, so I decided to give it a go. Couldn’t have been simpler to get it started, just equal weights of wholemeal flour and water, stirred and left somewhere warmish for a week or so, and fed every other day. Over time it has become more vigorous and now, at 4-5 months old, it’s positively thuggish. It sits quietly in the fridge but goes nuts as soon as it reaches room temperature and has a feed.

    I’ve found I get the best flavour from a long, slow rise once I’ve made dough, so I mix up then leave it in the basement (steady 18-ish degrees at the moment) to rise; it trebles in size in about 14 hours, gets e bit of a knock back and then I bake. If I put the dough somewhere warm, it’s ready in a couple of hours, but the flavour isn’t anywhere near as good. I guess the yeasts take over at higher temperatures, and the lactobacillus when it’s colder. Dunno.

    Anyway, perhaps ironically given the source of the recipe, I bake entirely unscientifically, but it seems to work OK.



    Last edited by PreacherCain; 19th August 2020 at 11:34. Reason: Edited as I forgot to add photos. Oops!

  34. #84
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    Fantastic to see how more and more people get sucked into the black hole that is bread baking.

    I love it and cannot see me ever going back to buying bread.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  35. #85
    I guess the yeasts take over at higher temperatures, and the lactobacillus when it’s colder. Dunno.
    That’s how it works, maybe try a shorter rise at room temp then retard in the fridge overnight?
    My non scientific way of doing it is do half hourly stretch/folds until I think it’s ready for a final shape (could be anything between 2-5 hours depending on temp,flour used and activity of starter) then a period of time at room temp before going in the fridge. I just go by looks and a poke test. I poly bag the the banneton once shaped.

    Had to rejuvenate my starter after not baking in the hot weather and being away for a couple of days, hopefully the loaf I just baked is ok, took a few feeds to get any activity.

  36. #86
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    I followed ‘bake with jack’ but cooked in a Dutch oven. Mine was in the fridge for 48hrs after the initial 8 of proving & folding every 2hrs.

    Those ones above look fantastic. I’m struggling not to tear chunks of every time I walk past it.

    What are people using to cut theirs knife wise?


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  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mj2k View Post
    What are people using to cut theirs knife wise?
    A bread knife?
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    A bread knife?
    Knew I was asking for that!

    Day 1 crust was so hard it was a real pain to cut through. Second day kept in an airtight container and the crust has softened considerably.


    Wondering if I should have left it out for longer before putting into a container. It was fully cooked, but perhaps some moisture equilibrated between bread and crust if it hadn’t dried enough.

  39. #89
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    I'm loving breadmaking too. Waitrose seems to be a pretty good place for flour, plenty of options in store, including some nice seeded choices.

  40. #90
    Shipton Mill do great flour online if you are buying several kg at a time, I like the light rye mixed with Canadian strong 1:2 ratio for my sourdough.
    They do lots of heritage/specialty flour too.

  41. #91
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mj2k View Post
    Knew I was asking for that!

    Day 1 crust was so hard it was a real pain to cut through. Second day kept in an airtight container and the crust has softened considerably.


    Wondering if I should have left it out for longer before putting into a container. It was fully cooked, but perhaps some moisture equilibrated between bread and crust if it hadn’t dried enough.
    I never put bread in an airtight container, because... (well you know).

    After the bake, leave it for a few hours (I do mostly overnight, up to 12hrs) just resting uncovered on a grid. Then I store it in a earthenware pot with a wooden lid. Any bread which I will not eat during the first three to four days, I will deep-freeze - either whole or sliced. Whole I thaw over night, sliced ad-hoc in the toaster.

  42. #92
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    "Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"

  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    I never put bread in an airtight container, because... (well you know).

    After the bake, leave it for a few hours (I do mostly overnight, up to 12hrs) just resting uncovered on a grid. Then I store it in a earthenware pot with a wooden lid. Any bread which I will not eat during the first three to four days, I will deep-freeze - either whole or sliced. Whole I thaw over night, sliced ad-hoc in the toaster.
    Like the idea of an earthenware pot, will be buying one of those to use. Annoyed my crust is soft now, but still tastes great.

    Had not thought about freezing whole, always sliced first. Certainly going to try that.


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  44. #94
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    Swapped 50% flour for rye this time, looking forward to it with some smoked salmon in the week.

  45. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Mj2k View Post
    Swapped 50% flour for rye this time, looking forward to it with some smoked salmon in the week.
    I really like the light rye that Shipton mill do, have some dark rye but I think the light rye in a 2/3 white 1/3 light rye mix is going to be my standard loaf, great flavour but not quite as dense as the dark and a more open textured loaf.

  46. #96
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    Ah forgot about that post. Stuck to the proving basket and couldn’t remove it.

    Was my first time trying rice flour and it didn’t seem to do what it was meant to! Not sure I will try rice flour again, so need to find a cooking use for it!

  47. #97
    That’s really odd, I had sticking in the banneton until I used rice flour, I just tap out the old flour on the worktop and reflour by rubbing it into the sides and using a little on the loaf when shaping.
    Banneton is fairly new so the first time with rice flour I wiped the inside with a damp cloth to make it stick.
    Not had any problems turning the loaf out since.

  48. #98
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    Will be trying the wipe next time. It was only the second use, first time was using rye to prevent sticking. Think I will also try the sprinkle over the loaf too.

    Am out of flour until tmrw, so want to get another loaf baked ASAP.


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  49. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    That’s really odd, I had sticking in the banneton until I used rice flour, I just tap out the old flour on the worktop and reflour by rubbing it into the sides and using a little on the loaf when shaping.
    Banneton is fairly new so the first time with rice flour I wiped the inside with a damp cloth to make it stick.
    Not had any problems turning the loaf out since.
    Tried the moisture technique recently, sprayed the banneton with water & then rice flour, the result was what I’d hoped for first time, came out easily.



    Need to improve my cutting of the top though, still a bit lacking there. Also prefer the bread a day after baking as the doughy texture disappears.

    Am now the proud owner of a starter that grows very well after struggling at the beginning to get any growth. My bubbles aren’t as large as I’ve seen but they tap show the height before adding 50g or flour & water each. Cannot complain with that.



    Fancy trying some seed / walnut variants next as always loved a walnut loaf from JS growing up.

  50. #100

    Sourdough

    First time I scored mine did it in the banneton, forgetting it had to be turned over.

    Embarrassingly did it the second time too, as in a rush to get it in the oven before it deflated.

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