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Thread: Sourdough

  1. #1

    Sourdough

    So my lockdown social media feeds have been filled with sourdough, talk of hydration, bannetons, lame’s, retardation and other baking terms.

    I’m going to start equipping myself with the necessary bits and pieces soon so if anyone has any tips, beginners recipes or good online suppliers of flour not in huge bulk bags then please share.

    Or just pics or amazing looking/tasting loaves

  2. #2
    Master Maysie's Avatar
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    It is a lovely way to make very tasty bread if you are patient and have a lot of time on your hands. If both of those things are not true for you, then you will likely get frustrated and give up with it.

    I have baked my own bread for the past 10 years and no longer buy any shop-bread at all, as ours is all home made. When we ran out of yeast a few weeks back, I made a sourdough starter so we could continue to bake our own bread. Even then, with it ready to go, I gave up with our sourdough starter just as it became usable as I found a bag of 'normal' yeast on Amazon, as baking sourdough just seemed to be so time consuming.

    If you just bake the odd loaf, and have an interest in making a sourdough then go for it. If you want to feed your family every day with sourdough, it will take up a LOT of your time. Maybe I didn't get into the groove.

  3. #3
    I have time on my hands now as there is not much work about but I work from home a lot of the time so like the idea of making the dough in the early evening then baking the next day which seems to be the way a lot of people do it, I’ll probably only do a bake every 5-10 days and am thinking just 1 loaf to start with then 2 small loves once I get the hang of it. Not got loads of room in the kitchen for storage so can’t buy big 16kg bags and Dutch ovens/ bannetons but have a big oven sauté pan with lid that will do to begin with.

  4. #4
    Craftsman Paradiddle's Avatar
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    The missus and I are guilty of getting on the sourdough bandwagon. I'd say that the most challenging part is making the initial starter, especially if you don't have a donor. It's almost like keeping a pet.

    The mrs. started making the starter out of scratch, however after a strong few days it started creating hooch and not much activity. I took over after a week and discarded more of the starter at each feed. We ended up with a much more active starter. Now we just put the starter in the fridge and feed it once a week.

    The actual baking is also quite hit or miss. Once you find a good recipe I would stick with it.

    It's definitely a hobby where you need to experiment a bit, especially at the start. Read up and watch as many videos as possible along the way.

  5. #5
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    Lidl and Aldi strong flour is very cheap and works very well. Get a recipe that works and stick to it. Accuracy is everything. You need a hot oven - my wife cooks hers in a cast iron pot, in the oven - she wishes we had gas, not electric. Get a decent bread knife. Get a banneton for the overnight proove.

    Well worth persevering with. Amazing taste on the day of baking and the crust is fantastic.

  6. #6
    Master yumma's Avatar
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    Me and Mrs Yumma are competing on this at the moment, as mentioned it takes time but equally is very little effort. I have typically gone down the simplest route and much to my wife’s annoyance I keep turning out better Sourdough. She’s mixing by hand, I throw it all in the Magimix.

    It’s all very easy. Equally it’s a little about consistency and feel so not exact as I guess different flours will react differently.

    Anyway here goes:-

    Starter: a week before you want to bake put 25g strong plain bread flour and 25g filtered tepid water in a small tub, leave it open and at room temperature, feed it the same quantity of flour and water each day and stir. This allows the natural yeast to form in the ferment mixture. After one week. Add 120g of Starter to 300-325g of filtered tepid water and dissolve starter, leave in a warm place for one hour, it should almost be a little bubbly. Weigh out 500g strong white bread flour into your Magimix bowl (I want to experiment with 400g white with 100g whole meal or rye flour as I think it would help texture but cannot get hold of any). Add 15g salt. Turn on mixer and pour in starter solution, mix thoroughly to give a very sticky and elastic dough (not too runny but it’ll likely be quite a wet mix. Transfer to a mixing bowl. Leave in a warm place for two hours, after this time fold the mixture by hand over itself several times, leave half hour and repeat folding, repeat a total of four times over a total of two hours, turn out into a well floured bread mould basket, cover with a damp tea towel and leave over night. Following morning pre-heat oven to 220C, place a deep baking tray with water in bottom of oven, and a heavy non stick baking tray, or better still a Pizza stone. Once to temp, flour baking tray or stone, turn out bread mould, bake for 50 minutes, et voila, gorgeous bread once cooled on a wire rack.

    Hope that helps, enjoy.

    Here’s one I made earlier:-



    Starter:-



    Bread mould:-



    Home made fish finger sarnie and tartare sauce:-



    You’ll either love it or think what a faff and hate it. I’m loving it. Good luck.

  7. #7
    That’s brilliant! It does seem like a faff as it’s spread over a few hours to make it, although I love sourdough bread - so simple in essence, just flour and water but much skill and timing involved.

  8. #8
    Yumma, that’s a great post and a nice looking loaf.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    Yumma, that’s a great post and a nice looking loaf.
    It is, inspired me to start a starter myself this morning.
    Also have this in cupboard so might try batch with it too. Apparently similar to sourdough but perhaps easier - anyone used it?


  10. #10
    I occasionally like to try (eating) sourdough lightly toasted - but most places serve it rock hard ime- it does make a nice treat with lots of salted butter and Bonne Maman jam - yum :)
    It's just a matter of time...

  11. #11
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    my girlfriend has been making the dough for about a week and then yesterday posts lovely photos of freshly baked sourdough on insta (other social platforms are available for unnecessary photos of food) when i'm 70 miles away at my place!

    Needless to say her kids, who couldn't care less, will scoff the lot or it will be stale by the time I get there on Friday evening. FML!

    point being, must be quite straight forward as she's competent but no Ainsley Harriet

  12. #12
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    I've jumped in with both feet to the sourdough game and it has been GREAT.

    Making a starter and maintaining it is so simple, you can do it with any flour except self-raising. Here's my very simple but effective recipe:

    starter:
    1. add 100g of flour and 100ml water to a suitable container and stir
    2. add 50g flour and 50g water every day for about four or five days until its bubbling and smelling
    3. your starter is good use if increases in volume dramatically approx 3 hours after a feed, or a teaspoon of starter floats on water

    loaf:
    1. add 500g flour (again anything but self raising) to 2tsp salt, 2tsp sugar, 300g of your starter and 225ml tepid water to a mixing bowl
    2. combine and knead (I use a machine with a dough hook) for about 5-6 minutes on a mediums speed or until you can stretch the dough until its practically see through. known as the 'window test'
    3. put in a lightly oiled bowl in a warm place to prove for around 3 hours
    4. knock it back, shape into a ball and bench rest for an hour or put into a bowl lined with a floured tea towel (important!) and leave to prove in the fridge overnight (this is my preferred method)
    5. preheat your dutch oven in an oven at 250degC for about 20 mins
    6. score your dough which has been turned out onto some baking paper with a sharp knife
    7. bake with the lid on for 20 mins at 250degC
    8. remove lid and go for another 20 mins.
    9. let cool and enjoy

    It seems like a lot of steps but it's really simple. See my efforts below.


















  13. #13
    Master yumma's Avatar
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    Great post Rico, I had heard about the use of a Dutch oven, plus yours has kept shape better than mine. I shall try the reduced quantity of water next time. Great job.

  14. #14
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by yumma View Post
    Great post Rico, I had heard about the use of a Dutch oven, plus yours has kept shape better than mine. I shall try the reduced quantity of water next time. Great job.
    Thank you! It is very satisfying. The reduce water content in that recipe is balanced by a slightly higher quantity of starter (ergo more hydration).

  15. #15
    All my bits turned up, scales, banneton etc so today with a bit of online guidance from a friend have fed the starter after I had to leave it out (was at my partners overnight) which then went bezerk and I was able to mix less than 2 hours later as it’s quite warm.
    Folding to come in a bit then back in the fridge tonight and bake in the morning.

    I’m sure it’s one of these things you can do without referring to a recipe once you have done a few.
    White only as it’s easier plus the rye flour didn’t arrive.
    Fingers crossed it’s palatable:-)

  16. #16
    The rye makes the starter very active.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    All my bits turned up, scales, banneton etc so today with a bit of online guidance from a friend have fed the starter after I had to leave it out (was at my partners overnight) which then went bezerk and I was able to mix less than 2 hours later as it’s quite warm.
    Folding to come in a bit then back in the fridge tonight and bake in the morning.

    I’m sure it’s one of these things you can do without referring to a recipe once you have done a few.
    White only as it’s easier plus the rye flour didn’t arrive.
    Fingers crossed it’s palatable:-)
    Sounds great! Yes, I can get mine mixed, kneaded and proving in about 10 minutes having done it a few times now without the need for recipes.

    Don't forget photos!

  18. #18
    A few rookie errors, banneton was not floured enough (need rice flour corn(yellow)flour) and it stuck on one side so I had to emergency reshape before putting in the pot. I also used baking parchment to turn out onto board which was unnecessary and can stick to the loaf but luckily it didn’t. Scoring was not deep enough so need to work on that.
    Came out ok though and tasted great with good texture. A friend who was offering advice online said “you have blisters on crust” which is evidently a good thing.
    Look forward to doing the next one and then getting some rye in the mix.


  19. #19
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    That looks great!

    I don't have a proving basket - only using the bowl and floured tea towel method but you do need a lot of flour (plain is absolutely fine).

    How did it taste?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by rico View Post

    How did it taste?
    Very good, not super tangy but tasty, I would like to get some rye flour but it was chewy without being hard work and certainly wasn’t doughy. The crust is great though.
    Did get some bigger bubbles/channeling which evidently means it’s slightly under proved.

    Hoping to get better with the next one.

  21. #21
    Master yumma's Avatar
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    That looks superb, I agree some Rye would help, mine has been a little chewy but still great, my wife’s has been more chewy and had some very large air gaps. But we’ve not had anything remotely poor yet, in fact they are getting better every time.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by yumma View Post
    Home made fish finger sarnie and tartare sauce:-



    You’ll either love it or think what a faff and hate it. I’m loving it. Good luck.
    I’ve made a few recently but not getting large holes like yours. By no means dense but not like text-book sd.
    Do the loaves rise much in the oven or as it goes in, that’s pretty much it?

  23. #23
    Master yumma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    I’ve made a few recently but not getting large holes like yours. By no means dense but not like text-book sd.
    Do the loaves rise much in the oven or as it goes in, that’s pretty much it?
    Mine does not rise as much as bread using proper yeast. I would say to minimise handling through each process as little as possible; especially when taking from the mould to the baking tray. I reckon mine only rises 20% in the oven at best. Another thing I do is leave it at room temperature the whole time, especially over night. Some recipes say to refrigerate over night. I’m no expert but I’m very pleased with the results so far. I still wonder if the flour makes a fair difference. Good luck, hope it helps.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by yumma View Post
    Mine does not rise as much as bread using proper yeast. I would say to minimise handling through each process as little as possible; especially when taking from the mould to the baking tray. I reckon mine only rises 20% in the oven at best. Another thing I do is leave it at room temperature the whole time, especially over night. Some recipes say to refrigerate over night. I’m no expert but I’m very pleased with the results so far. I still wonder if the flour makes a fair difference. Good luck, hope it helps.
    Thanks. Don't handle it much TBH - just invert it onto tray from mould. Have tried both r/t and fridge o/n. Last (fridge) was best yet and that used ~30% rye flour.

    Think I'll just have to try all the variations until I get lucky - maybe r/t and the rye next!

  25. #25
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    The oven spring I get in the oven is quite decent - it roughly doubles in size if not a little more.

  26. #26
    Getting better, still had sticking issues despite flouring the banneton liberally, need to get rice flour to help avoid that. Had issues with the starter as it didn’t respond well to feeding so had to feed again to get a doubling in volume. This was retarded overnight and baked this morning. It has better structure than the previous loaf and was bigger and flatter out of the fridge. I’m using Tesco’s strong Canadian but will be getting some better flour soon plus some rye.




  27. #27
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    I am more the rye/mixed type.

    I started baking my own sourdough bread last autumn and have not bought a single loaf ever since. My daughter loves daddy's bread so much, she makes sandwiches for her friends in school. I don't think I will ever be able to go back to the shite they sell in bakeries these days.
















  28. #28
    Have some rye on order, they look fantastic, what’s you share your recipe?
    I love rye bread as does my partner, she’s Polish so loves the stuff.

  29. #29
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    Have some rye on order, they look fantastic, what’s you share your recipe?
    I love rye bread as does my partner, she’s Polish so loves the stuff.
    I have thirteen different flours in my box:


    Rye wholemeal, 1150 and 997
    Wheat wholemeal, 1050, 550 and two kinds of pizza/pasta type 00 (Caputo blue and red) and two kinds of semolina (fine/coarse)
    Spelt wholemeal, 630 and 1150

    I maintain two sourdoughs, one wheat and one rye (which I feed with wholemeal flour).



    My recipes are mostly from this site, he has 1,008 different recipes in his blog - unfortunately German only. I use five or six recipes from his shortlist of favourite breads and love all of them.
    Last edited by Raffe; 25th June 2020 at 20:36. Reason: re-counted

  30. #30
    Master
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    Sounds more complicated than pizza!!

    Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

  31. #31
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boss13 View Post
    Sounds more complicated than pizza!!

    Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
    Not sure complicated is the word I would use. It's time-consuming, addictive, tasty and fun - all adjectives which describe pizza making just as well.

  32. #32
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    When I have improved my pizza making skills I may give it a bash!

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  33. #33
    I have thirteen different flours in my box:
    Been bitten by the bug then!
    Thanks for the links.

  34. #34
    My missus does a good job with sourdough. Cooks it in the Le Creuset marmite dish in the background.


  35. #35
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    I'm enjoying my latest effort with some fancy french butter - not long out of the oven so it's beautiful and warm. One of lifes great pleasures!

  36. #36
    You guys are amazing, I just get a lumpy mess.

    Your pictures and success have motivated me (I spirit at least) to try again with the recipes posted above.

    Cheers

  37. #37
    Master Pitch3110's Avatar
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    Chaps

    First effort yesterday and pretty pleased, could have done with more holes but I can sort that with longer fermentation and hydration.

    I wanted a quick morning method and this was only 4-5 hours from start to finish, I will now try an overnight.

    So, couple of questions:

    1. Is the starter in the fridge better in a airtight jar?
    2. Is a mix of white and rye flours a good starting point?

    Ta

    Pitch




  38. #38
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitch3110 View Post
    Chaps

    First effort yesterday and pretty pleased, could have done with more holes but I can sort that with longer fermentation and hydration.

    I wanted a quick morning method and this was only 4-5 hours from start to finish, I will now try an overnight.

    So, couple of questions:

    1. Is the starter in the fridge better in a airtight jar?
    2. Is a mix of white and rye flours a good starting point?

    Ta

    Pitch
    If that was your first, you got reason to be proud. Mine were.... I would try baking it a little longer next time to get some crisp into the crust.

    The sourdough container doesn't need to be super-airtight, but you don't want the surface to dry out. Any jar with a lid will do.

    The mix of flours will influence everything else, best to use some tried and tested recipes. The blog I linked earlier is fantastic, suppose you could google-translate the recipes (and plenty of Q&A in the comments). However, the typical rye sourdough bread works with a starter dough and takes overnight.

    I will bake this in a couple of hours, it's made from mostly light 997 rye flour and some wholemeal rye. Starter dough has been maturing since last night.

  39. #39
    Master Pitch3110's Avatar
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    Cheers buddy.

    I started with a jar with some holes punched in the top but switched to this yesterday. You can see from the band how much it grew overnight.

    Pitch


  40. #40
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitch3110 View Post
    Cheers buddy.

    I started with a jar with some holes punched in the top but switched to this yesterday. You can see from the band how much it grew overnight.

    Pitch

    It has to grow much more in order to produce nice bread. Mine will easily double in size over a few hours. If you want to put it away into the fridge, best of to do it when it has increased by about 70%, leaving some growth to happen in slow motion in the fridge.

    Keep refreshing it until it gets more powerful.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  41. #41
    Master Pitch3110's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    It has to grow much more in order to produce nice bread. Mine will easily double in size over a few hours. If you want to put it away into the fridge, best of to do it when it has increased by about 70%, leaving some growth to happen in slow motion in the fridge.

    Keep refreshing it until it gets more powerful.
    I was a bit surprised but I had run out of rye so used Caputo.

    Now of to the deli.

    Cheers Raffe

    Pitch

  42. #42
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Use wholemeal flour for the sourdough, if you can find it.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  43. #43
    Master Pitch3110's Avatar
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    Yep, left it out of the fridge whilst out and doubled in size.

    Couldn’t get rye today but managed some Allison’s strong wholemeal bread flour, will feed it tomorrow with that.

    Ta

    Pitch

  44. #44
    Master
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    My saliva glands are in overtime reading this. I LURV sourdough bread with lashings of real tasty butter eg lurpak slightly salted and home made jam.

  45. #45
    Master Pitch3110's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmcb View Post
    My saliva glands are in overtime reading this. I LURV sourdough bread with lashings of real tasty butter eg lurpak slightly salted and home made jam.
    This is not going to do much for the waist line Jimbo.

    Paul

  46. #46
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Unfortunately didn't take pictures of the starter doughs, but here is the loaf before the final proofing:




    One hour later:




    And yet another hour later:

    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  47. #47
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    First pizzas, and not this to try next!

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitch3110 View Post
    This is not going to do much for the waist line Jimbo.

    Paul
    LOL. The one that’s already gained hugely.

    J

  49. #49
    Master Pitch3110's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mj2k View Post
    First pizzas, and not this to try next!
    Oh yes Matt. Hahahahahah

    This is easier mate, trust me.

    Paul

  50. #50
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitch3110 View Post
    Oh yes Matt. Hahahahahah

    This is easier mate, trust me.

    Paul
    Will have to find an idiots guide to it, only got caputo, plain, self raising, strong white & spelt flour at the moment though


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