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Thread: Rental property woes

  1. #51
    Master BEZELBOY's Avatar
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    Tenants

    Just wondering,
    When you first signed up these tenants, surely you had a contract and did this not state that they could not sub-let or allow other people to sleep/stay there or keep animals?
    If so, they have then clearly broken their contract and you have grounds for terminating and demanding their exit legally or straight through court?
    Otherwise, what is the point of a contract as it serves and protects both parties?
    It will be interesting to see how a court would determine precedence between the original contract and the 3 month hold on eviction.


    i feel for you and hope you get this sorted in the near future.

    Andy

  2. #52
    Grand Master
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    Good luck OP, it comes with the territory I'm afraid.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    Are you a previous outed member whoís come back in another guise?
    No


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  4. #54
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    As a tenant since I got fed up giving houses to ex wives. Iím sorry for the OPs problems, the tenant rights legislation came out of so many dodgy landlords taking the piss so sometime had to be done. A few years ago during winter I had a boiler break down so no hot water or heating, it only took them 3 months to even try to fix it and another 5 to replace it, they said well youíve got a kettle to warm water.

    Thereís good and bad on both sides of the fence but whatever you do stay within the law!! If they know how to play the system youíll come a cropper if you donít.


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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by aa388 View Post
    As a tenant since I got fed up giving houses to ex wives. Iím sorry for the OPs problems, the tenant rights legislation came out of so many dodgy landlords taking the piss so sometime had to be done. A few years ago during winter I had a boiler break down so no hot water or heating, it only took them 3 months to even try to fix it and another 5 to replace it, they said well youíve got a kettle to warm water.

    Thereís good and bad on both sides of the fence but whatever you do stay within the law!! If they know how to play the system youíll come a cropper if you donít.


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    Had the same in my stepsons student house boiler packed in in the middle of winter they had no heating for 3 months the numerous engineers that came to fix it all said it was knackered and needed replacing and my stepson and his housemates were worried about kicking up too much of a fuss as they needed a reference for their next student house

  6. #56
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    Several years ago I had some tenants, man & wife, move out because they had bought their own property. They had been ok. Friendly and paid their rent every month. I remember that the man drove Bentley with a personalised number plate. A few days after they moved out I had a phone call from the next door neighbour advising me that water was flowing down the drive. I went around & found that the back door had been kicked in. Although it was an empty house, the boiler had been stolen. The thieves had turned off the gas but hadn't turned off the water. They had cut through the gas and water pipes. Water was gushing out of the cut water pipe & hitting the ceiling. I reported it to the police but didn't expect much to happen on that front. However a few weeks later I had a phone call from a police officer who advised me that he thought he had found my boiler and had I got the serial number. I read it out to him and it matched. He was standing looking at it plumbed into my ex tenant's kitchen. The police had gone around to the ex tenant's house because they suspected him of having a stolen caravan on his drive, which he had. One of the officers, who had taken details of the stolen boiler, remembered the name of my tenant from that. He got 6 months in jail which I was delighted about.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    When I had an alcoholic tenant who hadnít paid for months I offered him £2k cash if he cleared the property and left by the end of the week or that I would evict him and heíd end up leaving anyway and heíd not get his deposit back.

    I didnít like it but it worked and it was better business.
    Sorry for your troubles, +1 to this post, Iíve seen this method work on a number of occasions. Often itís the most cost effective way.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by trident-7 View Post
    Several years ago I had some tenants, man & wife, move out because they had bought their own property. They had been ok. Friendly and paid their rent every month. I remember that the man drove Bentley with a personalised number plate. A few days after they moved out I had a phone call from the next door neighbour advising me that water was flowing down the drive. I went around & found that the back door had been kicked in. Although it was an empty house, the boiler had been stolen. The thieves had turned off the gas but hadn't turned off the water. They had cut through the gas and water pipes. Water was gushing out of the cut water pipe & hitting the ceiling. I reported it to the police but didn't expect much to happen on that front. However a few weeks later I had a phone call from a police officer who advised me that he thought he had found my boiler and had I got the serial number. I read it out to him and it matched. He was standing looking at it plumbed into my ex tenant's kitchen. The police had gone around to the ex tenant's house because they suspected him of having a stolen caravan on his drive, which he had. One of the officers, who had taken details of the stolen boiler, remembered the name of my tenant from that. He got 6 months in jail which I was delighted about.
    Wow that is crazy and must have been horrible for you to deal with. How long did they stay? He must have had previous form to get jail time!

  9. #59
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    Horrible situation OP.

    We've had some start to go this way but not got to this extent.

    I'm not proud to say this but when they have started to mess around I have called them and let it be known in no uncertain terms that I wouldn't be messing around with solicitors etc to evict them and they would likely find themselves out in a rather sharp movement.

    This seems to have always cleared things up but I totally understand this approach isn't for everyone.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by thestore View Post
    Wow that is crazy and must have been horrible for you to deal with. How long did they stay? He must have had previous form to get jail time!
    You are correct. They were good tenants otherwise. But he was what the police termed an "up & coming criminal'. At the mention of his name their ears pricked up, otherwise I doubt the case of my missing boiler would have been solved. Police said 'give him a few years & we won't be able to touch him because he'll be getting his lackeys to do the business.'
    Last edited by trident-7; 9th June 2020 at 21:22.

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by trident-7 View Post
    You are correct. They were good tenants otherwise. But he was what the police termed an "up & coming criminal'. At the mention of his name their ears pricked up, otherwise I doubt the case of my missing boiler would have been solved. Police said 'give him a few years & we won't be able to touch him because he'll be getting his lackeys to do the business.'
    Thatís is a pretty scary story for anyone considering becoming a landlord. My parents have a buy to let and have had hassle free tenants for maybe 6 years. They have kept the rent the same because they would rather keep a good tenant.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by thestore View Post
    Thatís is a pretty scary story for anyone considering becoming a landlord. My parents have a buy to let and have had hassle free tenants for maybe 6 years. They have kept the rent the same because they would rather keep a good tenant.
    Something to be said for that. Wasn't too bad because the insurance paid for everything but I thought it inconsiderate, even for a criminal, not to turn the water off first.

    We had 3 current tenants until just before the lockdown. One moved out middle of March but I allowed the remaining two to remain paying 2/3 of the rent. They had offered to leave otherwise. Glad I did because I'd have had an empty house for the last 3 months. Plus these guys are good tenants and I now have improved goodwill with them. 3rd tenant joining them on 15th June so all worked out well.

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by trident-7 View Post
    Something to be said for that. Wasn't too bad because the insurance paid for everything but I thought it inconsiderate, even for a criminal, not to turn the water off first.

    We had 3 current tenants until just before the lockdown. One moved out middle of March but I allowed the remaining two to remain paying 2/3 of the rent. They had offered to leave otherwise. Glad I did because I'd have had an empty house for the last 3 months. Plus these guys are good tenants and I now have improved goodwill with them. 3rd tenant joining them on 15th June so all worked out well.
    Glad it worked out okay for you in the end!

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captaincook View Post
    Sorry for your troubles, +1 to this post, Iíve seen this method work on a number of occasions. Often itís the most cost effective way.
    It was some time ago and my only really negative experience. On balance property has been a good investment.

  15. #65
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    Just a quick update for anyone interested!!
    They finally left in September after 10 months of hell and only 1 rental payment..

    Court proceedings/eviction notices/numerous police/Council visits nothing fazed them,basically just laughing at the authorities.. obviously the property is trashed they started keeping dogs who
    Pi$$ed and sh1t everywhere.
    Completely filled the back yard with rubbish/motorbikes and all the furniture they didn't want to take with them, inside every door is off the hinges,kitchen and bathroom obliterated, plug sockets and lights smashed off the wall..... the list goes on...
    In the end I engaged a firm of debt collectors who i believe were the catalyst for them leaving, i don't believe I'll ever see any money but at least they are gone..
    So the bill is currently approaching 11k and we will try again!!!
    Just a cautionary tale for other landlords please vet your tenant carefully and take the biggest deposit you can!!!!

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  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    Yip, suck it up unfortunately until you can evict.

    Personally Iíd call round for a face to face to at least cool tensions, in the hope that they wouldnít cause major damage to the property.
    The perfect summaryÖ

    I am also a modest landlord with a princely empire of 1 house that I rent out

    I do due diligence, vet the tenants, meet them and talk to them

    The odd very minor bump in the road, but, all I all Iíve been very lucky

    I donít rely on the rental incomeÖ I am guessing you donít either

    .Follow the rules and get the scumbags out the right way (yes they do exist)

    So easily said, but, the worst outcome is for you to be worried, bitter or anxiousÖ. Itís not worth itÖ. The lack of income/ sense of injustice isnít worth it

  17. #67
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    Unfortunately eviction wasn't an option really because the government have basically made eviction a non starter due to the pandemic.. so I could have been stuck with them until next February..

    As for popping around for a chat ?? These people turned out to be violent aggressive drug dealers who weren't really interested in chatting...

    Fortunately we do not rely on renting for income, however the profit normally covers the ups and downs and puts a few pennies away... however I'm lucky i have not been impacted by the pandemic so I can afford to pay any extra bills out of my own pocket...


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  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter franks View Post
    Unfortunately eviction wasn't an option really because the government have basically made eviction a non starter due to the pandemic.. so I could have been stuck with them until next February..

    As for popping around for a chat ?? These people turned out to be violent aggressive drug dealers who weren't really interested in chatting...

    Fortunately we do not rely on renting for income, however the profit normally covers the ups and downs and puts a few pennies away... however I'm lucky i have not been impacted by the pandemic so I can afford to pay any extra bills out of my own pocket...


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    I think I quoted the wrong post! YesÖ. Popping round for a cuppa and some hob nobs with druggies isnít really a plan is it?

    The suck it up bit is true thoughÖ

    Glad itís not affecting you too muchÖ!

    Iím sure youíll be patient, run the process and get them outÖ

    Ití sounds like a headacheÖ

    Edit - I completely missed your last post! Glad itís over

    £11k is a wounderÖ. But, itís over now
    Last edited by Wolfie; 1st October 2020 at 22:19.

  19. #69
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    I know Iíll be condemned by some members on here for saying this but had they done that to me, I would have had a contract put on them. Not to kill them obviously but to do the male party some serious injury. I donít believe in hitting women regardless of what they do, but if someone deliberately does me over, they are getting payback.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    I know Iíll be condemned by some members on here for saying this but had they done that to me, I would have had a contract put on them. Not to kill them obviously but to do the male party some serious injury. I donít believe in hitting women regardless of what they do, but if someone deliberately does me over, they are getting payback.
    Sadly the law are wise to that. I had a very bad experience some years back where the guy who had done me wrong was found not guilty in crown court as he'd hired a good barrister that beat the CPS case against him. The police came round after the case to specifically warn me not to take private action since they witnessed so many times the good guy getting a prison sentence for revenge.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by broxie View Post
    Sadly the law are wise to that. I had a very bad experience some years back where the guy who had done me wrong was found not guilty in crown court as he'd hired a good barrister that beat the CPS case against him. The police came round after the case to specifically warn me not to take private action since they witnessed so many times the good guy getting a prison sentence for revenge.
    Makes you sick doesnít it. The scumbags know how to play the system.

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    I know Iíll be condemned by some members on here for saying this but had they done that to me, I would have had a contract put on them. Not to kill them obviously but to do the male party some serious injury. I donít believe in hitting women regardless of what they do, but if someone deliberately does me over, they are getting payback.
    Don't understand your sexist attitude.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Don't understand your sexist attitude.
    Hey if you are happy to hit a woman, crack on.

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    Hey if you are happy to hit a woman, crack on.
    I wouldn't hit anyone in the situation you describe.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    I wouldn't hit anyone in the situation you describe.
    Well if you are happy that someone has willingly and deliberately put you 11K+ in debt and you are ok about it, more power to you. I wouldnít be.

  26. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    Well if you are happy that someone has willingly and deliberately put you 11K+ in debt and you are ok about it, more power to you. I wouldnít be.
    Apparently you would be if it were a woman.

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Apparently you would be if it were a woman.
    Apparently you would be wrong.

  28. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    Apparently you would be wrong.
    Just using your strange logic - I wouldnít hit someone so I must be happy with situation.

    Hard man though.

  29. #79
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    Trust me I'd love to give them a kicking but these guys really know the system and it would have been me in trouble.
    I had offers from some unsavoury characters to help deal with them but I was advised not to go down that road by wiser people than me
    I'm just hoping that the debt collectors cause them as much grief as possible, they seem very tenacious and determined to recover some money..
    As said im not holding my breath but any grief I can cause them going forward is a small victory in my book.


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  30. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter franks View Post
    Trust me I'd love to give them a kicking but these guys really know the system and it would have been me in trouble.
    I had offers from some unsavoury characters to help deal with them but I was advised not to go down that road by wiser people than me
    I'm just hoping that the debt collectors cause them as much grief as possible, they seem very tenacious and determined to recover some money..
    As said im not holding my breath but any grief I can cause them going forward is a small victory in my book.


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    Exactly, it's not worth doing a stretch inside for and / or ending up in a war with violent drug dealers.

    Does landlord insurance not cover this kind of situation?

  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by watchcollector1 View Post
    Exactly, it's not worth doing a stretch inside for and / or ending up in a war with violent drug dealers.

    Does landlord insurance not cover this kind of situation?
    Possibly if you have it
    Although reading the small print in the past it would be very difficult to meet the criteria where they would pay out

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  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter franks View Post
    Although reading the small print in the past it would be very difficult to meet the criteria where they would pay out

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    Ah, nothing new there then!

  33. #83
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    Can you force them into bankruptcy if they donít pay?

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter franks View Post
    Trust me I'd love to give them a kicking but these guys really know the system and it would have been me in trouble.

    Yep - that's is some pretty devious stuff if they know obscure laws like someone [checks notes] physically assaulting you is a criminal offense!

  35. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodder View Post
    I donít have as much of an issue with missed rent, Iíd happily see renters protected in this respect. Itís the wanton damage to properties I canít stand.
    Weíre owed £5500 by just one tenant. Protected from eviction she decided to take advantage. Declined all efforts to meet or mediate, refused all attempts at verification of her circumstances, declined to say whether she was claiming Universal Credit for housing (she was, as inadvertently admitted by UC on the phone)...and now done a runner. At least the place was largely undamaged and is now availiable to be re-let.

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corporalsparrow View Post
    Weíre owed £5500 by just one tenant. Protected from eviction she decided to take advantage. Declined all efforts to meet or mediate, refused all attempts at verification of her circumstances, declined to say whether she was claiming Universal Credit for housing (she was, as inadvertently admitted by UC on the phone)...and now done a runner. At least the place was largely undamaged and is now availiable to be re-let.
    Stories like this are really concerning - I want to buy to rent but reading stories like this is plane scary!

    OP assuming youíve been doing this a while and through this experience any advice for new landlords?



    S

  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalSeb View Post
    Stories like this are really concerning - I want to buy to rent but reading stories like this is plane scary!

    OP assuming youíve been doing this a while and through this experience any advice for new landlords?



    S

    I've been a landlord - the key thing is - a lot of people think it's like a fruit machine that keeps paying out. If you decide to get into it - plan for the worst case scenarios eg "what if a tenants decides not to pay and it takes months to get them out?"

    Now you *hope* this never happens but you should *plan* for it.

  38. #88
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    Lightbulb

    Reading this thread is quite scary... If you guys can't handle a few rental set-backs without needing to consider some of these 'less-than-legal' means of dealing with said issues..... maybe you shouldn't be in this business.

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalSeb View Post
    Stories like this are really concerning - I want to buy to rent but reading stories like this is plane scary!

    OP assuming youíve been doing this a while and through this experience any advice for new landlords?



    S
    We have a small rental portfolio less than 10 ,we've been doing it for about 16 years now,yes there are good times and yes there are bad times...
    I'm still a believer, just? But the days of quick easy money are long gone.
    Its the long game now and the government seem hellbent on destroying the private rental sector with legislation and reduction in tax relief etc.
    Do your research, buy the right property in the right area and vet your tenant and you shouldn't go far wrong, its still better than putting your money in the bank but only just
    All I will say is I've always tried to limit my liability and not over extend myself, for instance we only need 50% occupancy to cover the bills and if needs be I can cover the shortfall myself but everyone's situation is different. If its going to be a stretch financially then my advice is steer clear because a situation like we've just had will send you over the edge.

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  40. #90
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    Couldn't you have sold the debt to even more agressive drug dealing/gangster types?

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adge View Post
    Reading this thread is quite scary... If you guys can't handle a few rental set-backs without needing to consider some of these 'less-than-legal' means of dealing with said issues..... maybe you shouldn't be in this business.
    If you can't handle the thread, maybe you shouldn't have read it.

  42. #92
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    First thing I ask for is a guarantor, if they canít get someone to do this for them there is usually a reason.
    Last edited by golf; 4th October 2020 at 07:19.

  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter franks View Post
    ... the government seem hellbent on destroying the private rental sector with legislation and reduction in tax relief etc.
    But with no plan to replace with public sector provision. Genius.

  44. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    But with no plan to replace with public sector provision. Genius.
    Itís why on the 3 occasions I put my house up for rent, I had about 50 responses in 24 hours and rents are inflatingÖ

    Itís so tough as a renter to even get a reasonable place nowÖ

  45. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by seadog1408 View Post
    If you can't handle the thread, maybe you shouldn't have read it.
    Haha calm down! I've only just advised against taking extrajudicial measures against tenants. Who knew that was too harsh

  46. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Adge View Post
    Haha calm down! I've only just advised against taking extrajudicial measures against tenants. Who knew that was too harsh
    To be fair his comment was 6 months ago, I suspect not only is he calm but has probably forgotten this thread exists 🤣

  47. #97
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    You just reminded me!, Statement still stands.

  48. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigweb View Post
    Horrible situation OP.

    We've had some start to go this way but not got to this extent.

    I'm not proud to say this but when they have started to mess around I have called them and let it be known in no uncertain terms that I wouldn't be messing around with solicitors etc to evict them and they would likely find themselves out in a rather sharp movement.

    This seems to have always cleared things up but I totally understand this approach isn't for everyone.
    I'm quoting myself here to show that stuff doesn't always go to plan.

    A couple of months after writing the above we had a tenant just stop paying due to Covid. He's still in there having not paid a penny for over 7 months and due to the current laws I can't do a thing to move him.

    He's an older guy, a University professor who has told me has fallen on hard times but has no intent on moving out until the last moment when I can get the courts to actually do something.

    I saw him a couple of weeks ago and he told me I should understand his position. Incredible sense of entitlement!

    I've never hit anyone first in my life but I could feel myself close to getting a grip of him.

    I've tried to reason with him to leave and go find somewhere less expensive so he didn't run up a huge bill but he says he couldn't get anywhere to take him now due to no income.

    I served a section 21 on him in January so should be able to get him out at the end of July hopefully.

    By that time I will be £15k+ in the hole because some entitled old guy thinks its fine to live in a penthouse apartment on the docks when he hasn't got a pot to piss in.

    I try not to think about it or I will go insane

  49. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigweb View Post
    I'm quoting myself here to show that stuff doesn't always go to plan.

    A couple of months after writing the above we had a tenant just stop paying due to Covid. He's still in there having not paid a penny for over 7 months and due to the current laws I can't do a thing to move him.

    He's an older guy, a University professor who has told me has fallen on hard times but has no intent on moving out until the last moment when I can get the courts to actually do something.

    I saw him a couple of weeks ago and he told me I should understand his position. Incredible sense of entitlement!

    I've never hit anyone first in my life but I could feel myself close to getting a grip of him.

    I've tried to reason with him to leave and go find somewhere less expensive so he didn't run up a huge bill but he says he couldn't get anywhere to take him now due to no income.

    I served a section 21 on him in January so should be able to get him out at the end of July hopefully.

    By that time I will be £15k+ in the hole because some entitled old guy thinks its fine to live in a penthouse apartment on the docks when he hasn't got a pot to piss in.

    I try not to think about it or I will go insane
    Sorry to hear this mate, COVID has added another layer of protection to those set to take the Michael fortunately not during COVID but our last difficult tenant similar sense of entitlement did a midnight flit after a chat so maybe worth still chasing him etc

  50. #100
    Master Pitch3110's Avatar
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    So sorry to hear this OP, horrible.

    Given how PRS is going we sold 4 years back, CG was a pisser. But we invested in our own home which increased the value considerably and is not subject to CG. I will get shot down I am sure but we invested in amongst other things watches which have seen a sizeable increase over the past four years with very little hassle and of course wasting assets so no CGT.

    I have a few Ďfriendsí who got into the Willy waving ĎIíve got more rentals than yayí who are beginning to ditch in favour of other avenues.

    I do hope all works out soon OP.

    Pitch

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