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Thread: Rental property woes

  1. #1
    Craftsman
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    Rental property woes

    Just a rant/moan really about some current nightmare tenants.
    They have not paid rent for 4 months, keeping dogs without permission, police raids twice, dealing drugs, violent aggressive behaviour towards other tenants in the building and my wife.

    To top it all we have served eviction notices in the correct way,they have responded saying they are not leaving and wont be paying rent! And now the government have extended the ban on evictions from private rental property for another 2 months??

    We are truly at our wits end,been landlords for 15 years with a few properties but this is the absolute worst and we've had some previous bad experiences!!!
    I'm all for tenants rights but what about my rights or should I just suck it up because I'm a nasty rich landlord..
    Any advice gratefully received..

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  2. #2
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    Yip, suck it up unfortunately until you can evict.

    Personally I’d call round for a face to face to at least cool tensions, in the hope that they wouldn’t cause major damage to the property.

  3. #3
    Master watch-nut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    Yip, suck it up unfortunately until you can evict.

    Personally I’d call round for a face to face to at least cool tensions, in the hope that they wouldn’t cause major damage to the property.
    this ^^^^

    Damage limitation, through gritted teeth. They are Shitbags but keep your cool, wait the 2 months spend a couple of grand employing a bailiff firm with some nasty burly fellas and then get your house back.

  4. #4
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    People like this really get my hackles up, you almost just want to have a sit down chat with them and ask, why do you think you can live like this, rent free, eviction hanging over your head, police issues, I'm mean why? Everybody else has to pay so why are you so special.

    All this I cant get a job/money crap is rubbish, its just plain laziness, anyone can earn a few legit quid if they are about themselves but you got to make it happen and get off off your ass.

    I'm involved in property but buy/sell, thought about the rental side but couldn't be arsed with all the hassles, I might try it later in life but for now I'll take my profits in the sale..

  5. #5
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    Its a real pity there wasn't a UK wide blacklist for little s~~ts like this so other landlords can see them coming.

    You can bet they have done exactly the same in the past and fully intended to turn you over the 1st time you met.

    Did they have tidy references ? I thought it was standard practice to have 2 previous references so you know they are not complete morons.

  6. #6
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xellos99 View Post
    Its a real pity there wasn't a UK wide blacklist for little s~~ts like this so other landlords can see them coming.

    You can bet they have done exactly the same in the past and fully intended to turn you over the 1st time you met.

    Did they have tidy references ? I thought it was standard practice to have 2 previous references so you know they are not complete morons.
    The trouble is desperate landlords write decent references (or at least omit the bad parts) in order to get the scum out of their properties. Otherwise they’re stuck with them for God knows how long. It takes an eternity to get them legally removed even in normal times.

    The whole system is wrong, the landlord, IMHO, should legally be allowed to remove them from the property once they’ve missed a payment (by say two weeks) as they’re then in breach of contract.
    Obviously, there will be tenants who inadvertently fall into temporary hardship but a decent landlord will know that and not necessarily wish to evict.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    The trouble is desperate landlords write decent references (or at least omit the bad parts) in order to get the scum out of their properties. Otherwise they’re stuck with them for God knows how long. It takes an eternity to get them legally removed even in normal times.

    The whole system is wrong, the landlord, IMHO, should legally be allowed to remove them from the property once they’ve missed a payment (by say two weeks) as they’re then in breach of contract.
    Obviously, there will be tenants who inadvertently fall into temporary hardship but a decent landlord will know that and not necessarily wish to evict.
    Good point, I had not thought about that......

  8. #8
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    It’s a disgrace that tenants are able (& actually aided!) to do this. I really do feel for you. I hope you get things resolved very quickly once the ban expires (if not before).

  9. #9
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    I’ve only ever had two problems with tenants and one was similar to yours - I had to get the courts involved and bailiffs. It did lead me to selling off quite a bit of cheaper property at the time as the hassle wasn’t worth it.

    My advice would be different to others here - I wouldn’t risk going round and trying to talk to them as it’s pretty clear to me that they wouldn’t take a blind bit of notice and all that will happen from your side is possible risk and definitely more stress. I’d talk to a Solicitor maybe who specialises in this area and see if there’s any avenues that can be explored despite the current extension the government have introduced. I don’t know but There may be options due to criminal damage, other tenants safety etc etc.

  10. #10
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    It’s odd that even the Conservatives hate private landlords - despite the fact that they supply much of the rental property that is required.

    This article hits the nail on the head:

    https://www.conservativehome.com/loc...ulnerable.html

    If you steal food from Tesco, you’re a criminal. Steal the use of property and you get protected.

    No one with a heart or a brain objects to protection for struggling honest tenants, by the way. The OP doesn’t sound to be in that position.

  11. #11
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    I don’t have as much of an issue with missed rent, I’d happily see renters protected in this respect. It’s the wanton damage to properties I can’t stand.

  12. #12
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Rental property woes

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodder View Post
    I don’t have as much of an issue with missed rent, I’d happily see renters protected in this respect. It’s the wanton damage to properties I can’t stand.
    So you’d be happy to pay hundreds, if not thousands of pounds of your own money for someone else to live Scott free in your property?

    And what if you absolutely need the rent money to cover your mortgage?

  13. #13
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    When I had an alcoholic tenant who hadn’t paid for months I offered him £2k cash if he cleared the property and left by the end of the week or that I would evict him and he’d end up leaving anyway and he’d not get his deposit back.

    I didn’t like it but it worked and it was better business.

  14. #14
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    Won’t achieve anything but, to get it off my chest and show the complete nonsense of the blanket “relief”, I’d email the minister responsible (Robert Jenrick) copying your MP. Ask them if they believe you are being treated fairly ....

  15. #15
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    From your list above I would say they are not going to listen to reason & with govt protection from eviction for the foreseeable nothing you can do legally.

  16. #16
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    Sell all the properties and give the proceeds to charity, your feel much better.


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  17. #17
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    Thanks for the response guys,to answer a few points..
    Yes they had references work, personal and previous landlord.
    I have never met them as I'm out of the uk working and have been since early January. My wife deals with the rental properties, she's normally a fairly good judge of people.
    We are most definitely not rich landlords all properties are mortgaged. We try to be decent fair landlords and only expect the same in return, all tenants were offered a reduction in rent at the start of covid 19 and my wife has helped them to secure any benefits etc that they are entitled to.
    Unfortunately these people are not interested in being helped they just want to take!!! I'm pretty sure this is not their first time and that they are experienced in ripping off landlords. They also seem to be letting some dodgy characters stay at the property who then threatened my wife and verbally abused her when she visited to try to find a solution.. unfortunately I cannot risk her safety so she cannot now go anywhere near the property.
    They seem to want full escalation in the breakdown in relations and seem to relish court proceedings?
    This may be the end of renting for us it is simply not worth the hassle,the government are just punishing landlords and the tenants have so many rights and we have none because we are perceived to be wealthy... anyone thinking of buy to let think seriously as it's a long rocky road.

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  18. #18
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    It is only money. Safety of family more important as you say...let them have a free ride and proceed with eviction as soon as the law allows...it is outrageous that you have been put in such a situation but I guess best not to worry yourself over it.

    Or a second idea, is it worth employing an unofficial debt collector, a couple of heavies going around to get your money?

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  19. #19
    Master blackal's Avatar
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    That's a crap situation to be in.

    No advice on way to proceed other than to advise caution unless you are absolutely sure - what the outcome will be.

    Don't enter a fight unless you know you can win.

  20. #20
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Rental property woes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boss13 View Post

    Or a second idea, is it worth employing an unofficial debt collector, a couple of heavies going around to get your money?

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    No, absolutely not!
    The OP would end up in all kinds of trouble.

    I feel your pain OP; I’ve been there, had the same (or similar) issues to you and no longer own BTL property.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter franks View Post
    They seem to want full escalation in the breakdown in relations and seem to relish court proceedings?
    They don’t care because they live, consequence free, outside the law but will be happy to take legal aid when the “nasty landlord” tries to evict them.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter franks View Post
    Yes they had references work, personal and previous landlord.
    No idea what the legal status of tenant references are but might be worth investigating. If someone has misled or lied, can you go after them?? Probably clutching at straws ....

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boss13 View Post
    Or a second idea, is it worth employing an unofficial debt collector, a couple of heavies going around to get your money?

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    Do not under any circumstances do this ^^^^

    Continue with the legal route and seek professional advice, the governments instructions don't give tenants carte blanche to behave like utter cnuts,

    Join something like the - RLA https://www.rla.org.uk/join/join.sht...SAAEgIZovD_BwE

    Oh and put the bar-stewards on this or something similar - Tenant registry https://tenantregistry.co.uk/

    Chin up, I know it's an emotional rollercoaster, and it's putting a lot of stress on your partners shoulders, but it will work out, we all encounter tw*ts at some time.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    No idea what the legal status of tenant references are but might be worth investigating. If someone has misled or lied, can you go after them?? Probably clutching at straws ....
    I'm afraid you are.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatalystGuy View Post
    Sell all the properties and give the proceeds to charity, your feel much better.


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    Eejit.

  25. #25
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    I would love to send in the heavy mob and I have had an offer from some capable people, however as stated I think this is exactly what they are hoping for and will do more harm than good!!
    I know its only money and in these strange times family and health are all that matters, but it just grates that I haven't seen my wife and kids for 5 months and these t##ts just get to ride free on my back...
    I'm home soon but unfortunately this nonsense is going to shadow a happy homecoming!!!
    Thanks for all the replies and I'll update as and when we get any developments.

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  26. #26
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    Rental property woes

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    So you’d be happy to pay hundreds, if not thousands of pounds of your own money for someone else to live Scott free in your property?

    And what if you absolutely need the rent money to cover your mortgage?
    I have a rental property and if a family couldn’’t afford to genuinely pay I’d absolutely be fine for a couple of months. We’’re not dependent on the rent so it would be annoying but nothing else. I’d be furious if people were intentionally damaging it.

    Also, we’ve always taken less rent to get what we perceive professional couples. Once they’re in and we know they’re fine we never put the rent up. Touch wood, it’s worked so far.

    Not aimed at OP, but landlords buying cheaper properties need to be prepared for bad tenants. I think it’s a case of spreading risk. So if you’re renting out 75k houses in certain areas you need enough properties to balance the risk. Out of 10 at any point you expect to have 1 or 2 problem tenants.
    Last edited by Rodder; 6th June 2020 at 13:25.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter franks View Post
    I would love to send in the heavy mob and I have had an offer from some capable people, however as stated I think this is exactly what they are hoping for and will do more harm than good!!
    I know its only money and in these strange times family and health are all that matters, but it just grates that I haven't seen my wife and kids for 5 months and these t##ts just get to ride free on my back...
    I'm home soon but unfortunately this nonsense is going to shadow a happy homecoming!!!
    Thanks for all the replies and I'll update as and when we get any developments.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using TZ-UK mobile app
    As your properties are mortgaged - take the 3 month payment holiday from your lender.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    When I had an alcoholic tenant who hadn’t paid for months I offered him £2k cash if he cleared the property and left by the end of the week or that I would evict him and he’d end up leaving anyway and he’d not get his deposit back.

    I didn’t like it but it worked and it was better business.
    As frustrating as it is, sometimes it’s better to suck it up and strike a deal to get the Person gone. It really is frustrating but if you can over the principle of the matter, cheaper and less stressful in long run.

    With the tax relief changes and rights for tenants renting property is not profitable for me anymore and as soon as my tenant leaves I’ll be selling I think.


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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnjm1 View Post
    With the tax relief changes and rights for tenants renting property is not profitable for me anymore and as soon as my tenant leaves I’ll be selling I think.
    Supply will reduce as decent landlords do the same and leave desperate tenants in the hands of rogue landlords who don’t worry about tenants’ rights. As often the case, unintended consequences.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by seadog1408 View Post
    Eejit.
    Yes you are!

    When you decide to become a landlord it has risks like any form of investment, you accept those risks and take the good with the bad.

    However unfortunate it is to have such a bad Tennant it can happen, one of the many reasons I chose a different investment avenue.


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  31. #31
    Master KavKav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    When I had an alcoholic tenant who hadn’t paid for months I offered him £2k cash if he cleared the property and left by the end of the week or that I would evict him and he’d end up leaving anyway and he’d not get his deposit back.

    I didn’t like it but it worked and it was better business.
    As foul as it was for you to take that course of action with that w***** ‘tenant’, it was best for you in the long run.

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by CatalystGuy View Post
    one of the many reasons I chose a different investment avenue.
    Sell all the investments and give the proceeds to charity, your feel much better.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatalystGuy View Post
    Yes you are!

    When you decide to become a landlord it has risks like any form of investment, you accept those risks and take the good with the bad.

    However unfortunate it is to have such a bad Tennant it can happen, one of the many reasons I chose a different investment avenue.


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    ​Tenant.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by KavKav View Post
    As foul as it was for you to take that course of action with that w***** ‘tenant’, it was best for you in the long run.
    Indeed. It was a business decision.

    Much as it left a bad taste it was quicker and cheaper than the other options.

    I made him officially surrender his tenancy and changed the locks before I handed over the cash.

    For people like this a lump of cash is a great lure.

  35. #35
    Master Tifa's Avatar
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    My business partner had an issue with his tennant.
    Unpaid rent initially, called around to ask her if there was a problem, she immediatey took out a harrasment order to prevent him going within 1/2 mile of his property.
    Phone calls went unanswered, so he decided to see if he could contact her via Facebook. Got a bit of a suprise to see his heating system, kitchen units and doors up for sale. (On ebay too)
    Contacted police, they didn't want to know, finnaly obtained a court order for eviction (Took nearly 6 months)
    When he finally obtained possession, he was in the process of repairs, when there was a knock on the door, and a cash offer for the property was made....he sold there and then.
    Rental properties as an investment is only as good as the quality of your tennant.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    Sell all the investments and give the proceeds to charity, your feel much better.
    No need to I have nothing to whine about


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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by seadog1408 View Post
    ​Tenant.
    Guessing again, I’m not a tenant.


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  38. #38
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    I was in BTL a few years ago when Short hold tenancy contracts and tax relief of mortgage interest made it a worthwhile venture. Today the market is stacked against the landlord and the smooth running depends on the behaviour and decency of tenants. So I sold up and bought a Villa in Spain on the profits.

    I also have an empty apartment in Spain where the rules are even more in favour of the tenant so I have adopted a policy of Buy and leave. It's not worth the hassle of getting a dodgy tenant and being messed about.

    So I am sitting on an empty apartment and will sell it when the market picks up as it will do one day. I am treating it purely as an investment, nothing else. Also if someone says this action contributes to a housing shortage, I will admit that is true, but if tenants are allowed to get away with blue murder, then so be it.

    I really think the days of BTL as over as a stress free form of investment.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatalystGuy View Post
    Guessing again, I’m not a tenant.


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    Eejit, I was correcting your spelling mistake. Do try to keep up.

  40. #40
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by seadog1408 View Post
    Eejit, I was correcting your spelling mistake. Do try to keep up.
    Based on his contributions on this thread he’ll struggle to keep up.

  41. #41
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatalystGuy View Post
    Guessing again, I’m not a tenant.


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    You really are coming across as an antagonistic troll. Have you got a personal vendetta against the OP? Why are you doing this?

  42. #42
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    You really are coming across as an antagonistic troll. Have you got a personal vendetta against the OP? Why are you doing this?
    Because he can.

    Unfortunately this forum as more than its fair share of obnoxious little jerks.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by seadog1408 View Post
    Eejit, I was correcting your spelling mistake. Do try to keep up.
    Yes you are. It was not a spelling mistake, just a double entry.


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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devonian View Post
    Based on his contributions on this thread he’ll struggle to keep up.
    The two are not related.


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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    You really are coming across as an antagonistic troll. Have you got a personal vendetta against the OP? Why are you doing this?
    Are you a fantasist?


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  46. #46
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatalystGuy View Post
    Yes you are. It was not a spelling mistake, just a double entry.


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    Yadda ........... Spelling mistake for sure.

  47. #47

    Rental property woes

    You always get a thread popping up on this forum every few months with someone asking advice about starting a new BTL portfolio.

    This thread is salutary advice that even with your 5 or 7% potential returns (if you are lucky these days), there comes a lot of risk and potential hassle. In the old days when there was the opportunity for massive capital appreciation it was probably worth the risk, but not now.

    I do have huge amount sympathy for the op, but you only have to watch Channel 4 tenant nightmare type programmes to know it is a risk that is ever present, even with what seems like respectable type people on the surface. And that risk has to be balanced against the financial return.

    Good luck in sorting it out op.

  48. #48
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    People have been telling me that rental properties aren't good investments for more than 10 years, we have found it better than most alternatives (Especially of late)and certainly has its place but we have been lucky, had one tenant since 1996

    Feel for the OP, horrible situation

    My next door neighbour had pot growers in their place, they reckon it cost £30k to put the house right afterwards there are lots of horror stories

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by seadog1408 View Post
    Yadda ........... Spelling mistake for sure.
    Nope a double entry, big difference.


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  50. #50
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatalystGuy View Post
    Are you a fantasist?


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    Are you a previous outed member who’s come back in another guise?

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