Rental property woes

[Peter franks]

Just a rant/moan really about some current nightmare tenants.
They have not paid rent for 4 months, keeping dogs without permission, police raids twice, dealing drugs, violent aggressive behaviour towards other tenants in the building and my wife.

To top it all we have served eviction notices in the correct way,they have responded saying they are not leaving and wont be paying rent! And now the government have extended the ban on evictions from private rental property for another 2 months??

We are truly at our wits end,been landlords for 15 years with a few properties but this is the absolute worst and we've had some previous bad experiences!!!
I'm all for tenants rights but what about my rights or should I just suck it up because I'm a nasty rich landlord..
Any advice gratefully received..

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[demonloop]

Yip, suck it up unfortunately until you can evict.

Personally I’d call round for a face to face to at least cool tensions, in the hope that they wouldn’t cause major damage to the property.

[watch-nut]

Yip, suck it up unfortunately until you can evict.

Personally I’d call round for a face to face to at least cool tensions, in the hope that they wouldn’t cause major damage to the property.

this ^^^^

Damage limitation, through gritted teeth. They are Shitbags but keep your cool, wait the 2 months spend a couple of grand employing a bailiff firm with some nasty burly fellas and then get your house back.

[murkeywaters]

People like this really get my hackles up, you almost just want to have a sit down chat with them and ask, why do you think you can live like this, rent free, eviction hanging over your head, police issues, I'm mean why? Everybody else has to pay so why are you so special.

All this I cant get a job/money crap is rubbish, its just plain laziness, anyone can earn a few legit quid if they are about themselves but you got to make it happen and get off off your ass.

I'm involved in property but buy/sell, thought about the rental side but couldn't be arsed with all the hassles, I might try it later in life but for now I'll take my profits in the sale..

[xellos99]

Its a real pity there wasn't a UK wide blacklist for little s~~ts like this so other landlords can see them coming.

You can bet they have done exactly the same in the past and fully intended to turn you over the 1st time you met.

Did they have tidy references ? I thought it was standard practice to have 2 previous references so you know they are not complete morons.

[Dave+63]

Its a real pity there wasn't a UK wide blacklist for little s~~ts like this so other landlords can see them coming.

You can bet they have done exactly the same in the past and fully intended to turn you over the 1st time you met.

Did they have tidy references ? I thought it was standard practice to have 2 previous references so you know they are not complete morons.

The trouble is desperate landlords write decent references (or at least omit the bad parts) in order to get the scum out of their properties. Otherwise they’re stuck with them for God knows how long. It takes an eternity to get them legally removed even in normal times.

The whole system is wrong, the landlord, IMHO, should legally be allowed to remove them from the property once they’ve missed a payment (by say two weeks) as they’re then in breach of contract.
Obviously, there will be tenants who inadvertently fall into temporary hardship but a decent landlord will know that and not necessarily wish to evict.

[xellos99]

The trouble is desperate landlords write decent references (or at least omit the bad parts) in order to get the scum out of their properties. Otherwise they’re stuck with them for God knows how long. It takes an eternity to get them legally removed even in normal times.

The whole system is wrong, the landlord, IMHO, should legally be allowed to remove them from the property once they’ve missed a payment (by say two weeks) as they’re then in breach of contract.
Obviously, there will be tenants who inadvertently fall into temporary hardship but a decent landlord will know that and not necessarily wish to evict.

Good point, I had not thought about that......

[Passenger]

Good luck OP, it comes with the territory I'm afraid.

[Wolfie]

Yip, suck it up unfortunately until you can evict.

Personally I’d call round for a face to face to at least cool tensions, in the hope that they wouldn’t cause major damage to the property.

The perfect summary…

I am also a modest landlord with a princely empire of 1 house that I rent out

I do due diligence, vet the tenants, meet them and talk to them

The odd very minor bump in the road, but, all I all I’ve been very lucky

I don’t rely on the rental income… I am guessing you don’t either

.Follow the rules and get the scumbags out the right way (yes they do exist)

So easily said, but, the worst outcome is for you to be worried, bitter or anxious…. It’s not worth it…. The lack of income/ sense of injustice isn’t worth it

[David_D]

It’s odd that even the Conservatives hate private landlords - despite the fact that they supply much of the rental property that is required.

This article hits the nail on the head:

https://www.conservativehome.com/loc...ulnerable.html

If you steal food from Tesco, you’re a criminal. Steal the use of property and you get protected.

No one with a heart or a brain objects to protection for struggling honest tenants, by the way. The OP doesn’t sound to be in that position.

[Rodder]

I don’t have as much of an issue with missed rent, I’d happily see renters protected in this respect. It’s the wanton damage to properties I can’t stand.

[Dave+63]

I don’t have as much of an issue with missed rent, I’d happily see renters protected in this respect. It’s the wanton damage to properties I can’t stand.

So you’d be happy to pay hundreds, if not thousands of pounds of your own money for someone else to live Scott free in your property?

And what if you absolutely need the rent money to cover your mortgage?

[Montello]

When I had an alcoholic tenant who hadn’t paid for months I offered him £2k cash if he cleared the property and left by the end of the week or that I would evict him and he’d end up leaving anyway and he’d not get his deposit back.

I didn’t like it but it worked and it was better business.

[cnjm1]

When I had an alcoholic tenant who hadn’t paid for months I offered him £2k cash if he cleared the property and left by the end of the week or that I would evict him and he’d end up leaving anyway and he’d not get his deposit back.

I didn’t like it but it worked and it was better business.

As frustrating as it is, sometimes it’s better to suck it up and strike a deal to get the Person gone. It really is frustrating but if you can over the principle of the matter, cheaper and less stressful in long run.

With the tax relief changes and rights for tenants renting property is not profitable for me anymore and as soon as my tenant leaves I’ll be selling I think.


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[David_D]

With the tax relief changes and rights for tenants renting property is not profitable for me anymore and as soon as my tenant leaves I’ll be selling I think.

Supply will reduce as decent landlords do the same and leave desperate tenants in the hands of rogue landlords who don’t worry about tenants’ rights. As often the case, unintended consequences.

[KavKav]

When I had an alcoholic tenant who hadn’t paid for months I offered him £2k cash if he cleared the property and left by the end of the week or that I would evict him and he’d end up leaving anyway and he’d not get his deposit back.

I didn’t like it but it worked and it was better business.

As foul as it was for you to take that course of action with that w***** ‘tenant’, it was best for you in the long run.

[Montello]

As foul as it was for you to take that course of action with that w***** ‘tenant’, it was best for you in the long run.

Indeed. It was a business decision.

Much as it left a bad taste it was quicker and cheaper than the other options.

I made him officially surrender his tenancy and changed the locks before I handed over the cash.

For people like this a lump of cash is a great lure.

[Captaincook]

When I had an alcoholic tenant who hadn’t paid for months I offered him £2k cash if he cleared the property and left by the end of the week or that I would evict him and he’d end up leaving anyway and he’d not get his deposit back.

I didn’t like it but it worked and it was better business.

Sorry for your troubles, +1 to this post, I’ve seen this method work on a number of occasions. Often it’s the most cost effective way.

[Montello]

Sorry for your troubles, +1 to this post, I’ve seen this method work on a number of occasions. Often it’s the most cost effective way.

It was some time ago and my only really negative experience. On balance property has been a good investment.

[Rodder]

So you’d be happy to pay hundreds, if not thousands of pounds of your own money for someone else to live Scott free in your property?

And what if you absolutely need the rent money to cover your mortgage?

I have a rental property and if a family couldn’’t afford to genuinely pay I’d absolutely be fine for a couple of months. We’’re not dependent on the rent so it would be annoying but nothing else. I’d be furious if people were intentionally damaging it.

Also, we’ve always taken less rent to get what we perceive professional couples. Once they’re in and we know they’re fine we never put the rent up. Touch wood, it’s worked so far.

Not aimed at OP, but landlords buying cheaper properties need to be prepared for bad tenants. I think it’s a case of spreading risk. So if you’re renting out 75k houses in certain areas you need enough properties to balance the risk. Out of 10 at any point you expect to have 1 or 2 problem tenants.

[Corporalsparrow]

I don’t have as much of an issue with missed rent, I’d happily see renters protected in this respect. It’s the wanton damage to properties I can’t stand.

We’re owed £5500 by just one tenant. Protected from eviction she decided to take advantage. Declined all efforts to meet or mediate, refused all attempts at verification of her circumstances, declined to say whether she was claiming Universal Credit for housing (she was, as inadvertently admitted by UC on the phone)...and now done a runner. At least the place was largely undamaged and is now availiable to be re-let.

[DigitalSeb]

We’re owed £5500 by just one tenant. Protected from eviction she decided to take advantage. Declined all efforts to meet or mediate, refused all attempts at verification of her circumstances, declined to say whether she was claiming Universal Credit for housing (she was, as inadvertently admitted by UC on the phone)...and now done a runner. At least the place was largely undamaged and is now availiable to be re-let.

Stories like this are really concerning - I want to buy to rent but reading stories like this is plane scary!

OP assuming you’ve been doing this a while and through this experience any advice for new landlords?



S

[Alansmithee]

Stories like this are really concerning - I want to buy to rent but reading stories like this is plane scary!

OP assuming you’ve been doing this a while and through this experience any advice for new landlords?



S

I've been a landlord - the key thing is - a lot of people think it's like a fruit machine that keeps paying out. If you decide to get into it - plan for the worst case scenarios eg "what if a tenants decides not to pay and it takes months to get them out?"

Now you *hope* this never happens but you should *plan* for it.

[Peter franks]

Stories like this are really concerning - I want to buy to rent but reading stories like this is plane scary!

OP assuming you’ve been doing this a while and through this experience any advice for new landlords?



S

We have a small rental portfolio less than 10 ,we've been doing it for about 16 years now,yes there are good times and yes there are bad times...
I'm still a believer, just? But the days of quick easy money are long gone.
Its the long game now and the government seem hellbent on destroying the private rental sector with legislation and reduction in tax relief etc.
Do your research, buy the right property in the right area and vet your tenant and you shouldn't go far wrong, its still better than putting your money in the bank but only just
All I will say is I've always tried to limit my liability and not over extend myself, for instance we only need 50% occupancy to cover the bills and if needs be I can cover the shortfall myself but everyone's situation is different. If its going to be a stretch financially then my advice is steer clear because a situation like we've just had will send you over the edge.

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[Dazzler]

Couldn't you have sold the debt to even more agressive drug dealing/gangster types?

[David_D]

... the government seem hellbent on destroying the private rental sector with legislation and reduction in tax relief etc.

But with no plan to replace with public sector provision. Genius.

[Passenger]

hmm there'll come a time when we start divesting but I've a plan, accounting for that and you've always got to hand over your pound of flesh to the tax man, goes with the territory whichever country you're investing...In the States you have both State and Federal taxes for example upon completion of sale, it is what it is.

[David_D]

Won’t achieve anything but, to get it off my chest and show the complete nonsense of the blanket “relief”, I’d email the minister responsible (Robert Jenrick) copying your MP. Ask them if they believe you are being treated fairly ....

[g40steve]

From your list above I would say they are not going to listen to reason & with govt protection from eviction for the foreseeable nothing you can do legally.

[CatalystGuy]

Sell all the properties and give the proceeds to charity, your feel much better.


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[seadog1408]

Sell all the properties and give the proceeds to charity, your feel much better.


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Eejit.

[CatalystGuy]

Eejit.

Yes you are!

When you decide to become a landlord it has risks like any form of investment, you accept those risks and take the good with the bad.

However unfortunate it is to have such a bad Tennant it can happen, one of the many reasons I chose a different investment avenue.


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[wileeeeeey]

one of the many reasons I chose a different investment avenue.

Sell all the investments and give the proceeds to charity, your feel much better.

[CatalystGuy]

Sell all the investments and give the proceeds to charity, your feel much better.

No need to I have nothing to whine about


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[seadog1408]

Yes you are!

When you decide to become a landlord it has risks like any form of investment, you accept those risks and take the good with the bad.

However unfortunate it is to have such a bad Tennant it can happen, one of the many reasons I chose a different investment avenue.


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​Tenant.

[CatalystGuy]

​Tenant.

Guessing again, I’m not a tenant.


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[Peter franks]

Thanks for the response guys,to answer a few points..
Yes they had references work, personal and previous landlord.
I have never met them as I'm out of the uk working and have been since early January. My wife deals with the rental properties, she's normally a fairly good judge of people.
We are most definitely not rich landlords all properties are mortgaged. We try to be decent fair landlords and only expect the same in return, all tenants were offered a reduction in rent at the start of covid 19 and my wife has helped them to secure any benefits etc that they are entitled to.
Unfortunately these people are not interested in being helped they just want to take!!! I'm pretty sure this is not their first time and that they are experienced in ripping off landlords. They also seem to be letting some dodgy characters stay at the property who then threatened my wife and verbally abused her when she visited to try to find a solution.. unfortunately I cannot risk her safety so she cannot now go anywhere near the property.
They seem to want full escalation in the breakdown in relations and seem to relish court proceedings?
This may be the end of renting for us it is simply not worth the hassle,the government are just punishing landlords and the tenants have so many rights and we have none because we are perceived to be wealthy... anyone thinking of buy to let think seriously as it's a long rocky road.

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[David_D]

They seem to want full escalation in the breakdown in relations and seem to relish court proceedings?

They don’t care because they live, consequence free, outside the law but will be happy to take legal aid when the “nasty landlord” tries to evict them.

[David_D]

Yes they had references work, personal and previous landlord.

No idea what the legal status of tenant references are but might be worth investigating. If someone has misled or lied, can you go after them?? Probably clutching at straws ....

[number2]

Or a second idea, is it worth employing an unofficial debt collector, a couple of heavies going around to get your money?

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Do not under any circumstances do this ^^^^

Continue with the legal route and seek professional advice, the governments instructions don't give tenants carte blanche to behave like utter cnuts,

Join something like the - RLA https://www.rla.org.uk/join/join.sht...SAAEgIZovD_BwE

Oh and put the bar-stewards on this or something similar - Tenant registry https://tenantregistry.co.uk/

Chin up, I know it's an emotional rollercoaster, and it's putting a lot of stress on your partners shoulders, but it will work out, we all encounter tw*ts at some time.

- - - Updated - - -

No idea what the legal status of tenant references are but might be worth investigating. If someone has misled or lied, can you go after them?? Probably clutching at straws ....

I'm afraid you are.

[Boss13]

It is only money. Safety of family more important as you say...let them have a free ride and proceed with eviction as soon as the law allows...it is outrageous that you have been put in such a situation but I guess best not to worry yourself over it.

Or a second idea, is it worth employing an unofficial debt collector, a couple of heavies going around to get your money?

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[blackal]

That's a crap situation to be in.

No advice on way to proceed other than to advise caution unless you are absolutely sure - what the outcome will be.

Don't enter a fight unless you know you can win.

[Dave+63]

Or a second idea, is it worth employing an unofficial debt collector, a couple of heavies going around to get your money?

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No, absolutely not!
The OP would end up in all kinds of trouble.

I feel your pain OP; I’ve been there, had the same (or similar) issues to you and no longer own BTL property.

[Peter franks]

I would love to send in the heavy mob and I have had an offer from some capable people, however as stated I think this is exactly what they are hoping for and will do more harm than good!!
I know its only money and in these strange times family and health are all that matters, but it just grates that I haven't seen my wife and kids for 5 months and these t##ts just get to ride free on my back...
I'm home soon but unfortunately this nonsense is going to shadow a happy homecoming!!!
Thanks for all the replies and I'll update as and when we get any developments.

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[number2]

I would love to send in the heavy mob and I have had an offer from some capable people, however as stated I think this is exactly what they are hoping for and will do more harm than good!!
I know its only money and in these strange times family and health are all that matters, but it just grates that I haven't seen my wife and kids for 5 months and these t##ts just get to ride free on my back...
I'm home soon but unfortunately this nonsense is going to shadow a happy homecoming!!!
Thanks for all the replies and I'll update as and when we get any developments.

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As your properties are mortgaged - take the 3 month payment holiday from your lender.

[noTAGlove]

You always get a thread popping up on this forum every few months with someone asking advice about starting a new BTL portfolio.

This thread is salutary advice that even with your 5 or 7% potential returns (if you are lucky these days), there comes a lot of risk and potential hassle. In the old days when there was the opportunity for massive capital appreciation it was probably worth the risk, but not now.

I do have huge amount sympathy for the op, but you only have to watch Channel 4 tenant nightmare type programmes to know it is a risk that is ever present, even with what seems like respectable type people on the surface. And that risk has to be balanced against the financial return.

Good luck in sorting it out op.

[Liner33]

People have been telling me that rental properties aren't good investments for more than 10 years, we have found it better than most alternatives (Especially of late)and certainly has its place but we have been lucky, had one tenant since 1996

Feel for the OP, horrible situation

My next door neighbour had pot growers in their place, they reckon it cost £30k to put the house right afterwards there are lots of horror stories

[aa388]

As a tenant since I got fed up giving houses to ex wives. I’m sorry for the OPs problems, the tenant rights legislation came out of so many dodgy landlords taking the piss so sometime had to be done. A few years ago during winter I had a boiler break down so no hot water or heating, it only took them 3 months to even try to fix it and another 5 to replace it, they said well you’ve got a kettle to warm water.

There’s good and bad on both sides of the fence but whatever you do stay within the law!! If they know how to play the system you’ll come a cropper if you don’t.


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[Michael 38]

As a tenant since I got fed up giving houses to ex wives. I’m sorry for the OPs problems, the tenant rights legislation came out of so many dodgy landlords taking the piss so sometime had to be done. A few years ago during winter I had a boiler break down so no hot water or heating, it only took them 3 months to even try to fix it and another 5 to replace it, they said well you’ve got a kettle to warm water.

There’s good and bad on both sides of the fence but whatever you do stay within the law!! If they know how to play the system you’ll come a cropper if you don’t.


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Had the same in my stepsons student house boiler packed in in the middle of winter they had no heating for 3 months the numerous engineers that came to fix it all said it was knackered and needed replacing and my stepson and his housemates were worried about kicking up too much of a fuss as they needed a reference for their next student house

[trident-7]

Several years ago I had some tenants, man & wife, move out because they had bought their own property. They had been ok. Friendly and paid their rent every month. I remember that the man drove Bentley with a personalised number plate. A few days after they moved out I had a phone call from the next door neighbour advising me that water was flowing down the drive. I went around & found that the back door had been kicked in. Although it was an empty house, the boiler had been stolen. The thieves had turned off the gas but hadn't turned off the water. They had cut through the gas and water pipes. Water was gushing out of the cut water pipe & hitting the ceiling. I reported it to the police but didn't expect much to happen on that front. However a few weeks later I had a phone call from a police officer who advised me that he thought he had found my boiler and had I got the serial number. I read it out to him and it matched. He was standing looking at it plumbed into my ex tenant's kitchen. The police had gone around to the ex tenant's house because they suspected him of having a stolen caravan on his drive, which he had. One of the officers, who had taken details of the stolen boiler, remembered the name of my tenant from that. He got 6 months in jail which I was delighted about.