Sorry for starting another cycling thread.
I've just got back into cycling after a big gap, not counting commuting into London via train & Brompton.
I bought a rather nice Boardman HYB 8.8 Hybrid to ride on the roads & trails near me. I'm very lucky to be near the South Downs & lots of other great riding areas. I've really enjoyed what I've done so far, but the Hybrid is really limited off road & my wife suggested I get a mountain bike, bless her.
I've got a good mate who I cycle with mostly + my brother who are both well into cycling with several types of bikes each. One says hard tail, the other full suspension. My gut feel is that hard tail will be fine, but the full suspension advocate is suggesting I get a light, carbon framed bike which will be more versatile off road, but fine on road with the suspension locked off. Most of my riding will be a mix of road / trail. At nearly 55 years old, I'm not likely to be getting into anything too extreme.
I've set a budget of £2k - £2.5k tops including pedals, saddle, mudguards, bottle cages etc, but happy to spend less.
Thoughts please?
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
Sorry for jumping In on this tread but I've the exact same situation and intrested too. Budget is similar and I want somthing to enjoy with my boy who is getting into his bike at the age of 6 now.
I currently dont have one. It seems a minefield and most say hardtail unless you are spending over sort of 1500. I've gone from looking at £1000 bikes to thinking balls to it and seen a santa cruz 5010 which is complete overkill BUT it looks a lovely bike haha.
I have a carbon framed hardtail 29er and love it to bits...
That said, I live in Peterborough, which is apparently the flattest place on Earth so I rarely do anything more than fast XC with a few roots or kerbs etc. I wouldn't benefit from a full susser.
It's fine on the road with tyres at 35psi, but you'd struggle to manage more than 20mph ish due to the gearing on a 1x11 (or 12). A larger front ring would give more speed at the expense of not being able to climb trees in the lower gears.
EDIT - the 2021 bikes will be out soon. Look for discounts on the previous season's bikes and you'll get a much better deal. My Giant XTC RRP was £2449 - I got it for £1300 brand new.
Hardtail really. Lighter bike. If you go full suspension then the budget needs to expand (a lot) to get something close to a good hardtail.
Your friend and your brother are both correct, or rather neither is wrong.
You'll obviously get a better hardtail for the same money, which will give a better frame or components, or both. Plenty of adavantages to a hardtail, less weight and complexity, less maintenance. More fun in some situations, faster too. You also tend to have to learn to ride better. A full susser will be faster once you're on anything beyond moderately rough, it will be more comfortable almost everywhere.
Only you can decide which would be best preferrably having tried both. Is your friend and/or brother a similar size to you such that you could spend a day on each type from their respective stables?
Given the correct number of bikes to own is well known to be n+1, much like watches, you might consider buying the one your gut tells you to get now in the expectation you'll add the other type later on. You know it makes sense!
Last edited by WTRacer; 5th June 2020 at 09:48.
I'm in a very similar position and after a lot of research I'm going to get a 905 and pocket some change : )
https://whyte.bike/collections/trail-enduro-900-series
Hardtail, full suspension isn't worth the cost, weight and reliability penalty, yes the ride would be a bit plusher if not set to hard, but the number of times that you need rear suspension is very few, so not justified, another thing to consider, they build in directional flex by manipulating the weave on good carbon fibre frames.
saying that my nephew is currently racing one of these and it is sub eight Kilos, but not cheap
https://www.orbea.com/gb-en/bicycles/mountain/occam
Last edited by adrianw; 5th June 2020 at 09:51.
I'm looking at getting a hardtail and would be doing similar riding to yourself Andy. I'm also contemplating buying a frame and separate components and building one up albeit have never attempted anything like before so trying to decided whether to go steel or alu. Would love titanium but so much more
My brother is just a little taller than me. I'm going to try his full suspension bike on Sunday. My mate is much taller.Originally Posted by WTRacer
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
Sorry to hijack the thread but how are you finding the Boardman HYB 8.8 as this is on my short list for a new Hybrid.
Thanks
Mark
If prepared to go used then you’d get a pretty good full sus for 2k... that’s the route I’d take.
full suspension for that money. but I don't know all that much about pros and cons of both. its just what I would do.
I bought a hard tail due to 1000 budget
It’s not just about the riding you want to do now, but what riding you might want to do in the future as well.
If the off road bug bites, you might want to try some of the classic trails in the more pointy bits of the country, where a decent full suspension bike will make them more fun and less tiring, in my opinion.
As somebody has already said, there’s no right or wrong answer, just opinion and preference. I wouldn’t be too bothered about components nowadays, they’re all pretty good and even higher end stuff will still break and wear out. It’s cheaper to replace Shimano Deore stuff than XT etc.
I’ve got a hard tail, a full suspension and an electric bike, all MTBs and all fun to ride in their own way.
Best thing is to try them, and decide which one you prefer.
I'm really liking the bike in general, but not when the going gets bumpy of the surface is loose. What size are you looking for?
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
I need a large and was looking at this range as Halfords seem to have most of them in stock and it was this or the Boardman 8.6 as i prefered the blue colour in the 8.6(no logic and a bit like buying watches)
Thanks
I've been riding hard tail for years but now wouldn't go back from full suspension, yes they're heavier but I find them much more forgiving when riding on tracks/bridlepaths etc. I ride a Whyte, on the recommendation of my old uni housemate who now is the UK distributor.
Have a look on eBay for something as your money will go a lot further. Loads of people buy bikes and then never use them so there's some great kit on the pre-owned market, unless you're set on getting 2020/2021 colour schemes.
Hey Andy,
I'm not far from the SDW myself in fact I did a 20 mile loop up to the SWD and back yesterday.
Is keeping the hybrid a no no, even if you reduce the spend on the mtb?
I ask as while some have said its perfectly doable you'll likely find road riding is much less fun than before though obviously this depends on the amount of road riding you expect to do.
Talking of this, what kind of rinding are you intending?
Are the climes something you enjoy or just endure, are you looking to cover distance along the SDW or are you looking for some ‘hidden’ flowing trails?
Will you be out mainly in the spring / summer of all year round?
Again you can use the same bike for all of these types of riding and more but if you can decide on the type of riding you want to do then you’ll stand a better chance of getting the right tool for the job.
I'm lucky enough to have both a HT and FS bikes, I’ve a carbon Cannodale FS bike and with 140cm of travel both ends I'm over biked for most of my riding but its been to Austria and other trrails and it never fails to put a smile on my face going down, and is still fine to peddle up, its what I used for yesterdays ride, I tend not to use it in very muddy conditions and so luckily I’m still on the original frame bearings and I suspect I’ll be looking at my first fork and shock service at the end of the Summer which will be £400. Not bad for 3-4 years old
In worse conditions or when I’m looking at a lot of climbing or more cross country riding I take my hardtail Giant which is less fun going down hill but better suited to long distance xc rides and mucky conditions, I’ve had this for 8 years and still on the original forks, but had new wheels, brakes and gear sets over the years its now 1x11 Shimano.
For really crappy weather and as a loner I built up a on-one inbread frame from old parts and that’s a either a winter hack or a pub bike depending on how I set it up.
If you let us know why kind of riding you think your aiming at I can make a better recommendation, but if its a bit of everything then I’d find it hard not to look at either a short travel FS bike, something in the 100-120cm of travel range or a hardtail with plus sized tyres (look for 27.5+ or 29+) as this give a bit more grip and comfort but without the cost and weight penalty seen on some FS bikes.
As for carbon vs Alu, surprising given I’ve got two carbon bikes I’d say Alu, generally you’ll get better vfm, better parts for the same spend and generally the weight difference is less than 1.5kg, often less than a kg. At those weights your better off losing a bit yourself ;-)
Feel free to PM me if you thing I can help some more of looking for some routes.
Last edited by Captain Morgan; 5th June 2020 at 11:24.
Hardtail.
Full suspension is great but the real advantage is not comfort but the mechanical grip that rear suspension (when set up well) gives you. Unless you are ragging down twisty/bermy/rocky/root strewn mtb trails then a hardtail with decent fork and wheels/tyres will be fine, especially if you are riding more on gravel/bridalways etc.
Anyone who has had a shock serviced and a load of pivot bearings replaced would probably agree with me
For what it's worth, I've been riding fully suspended bikes and hardtail for years and there's a place for both. I've currently got one of each, a steel hardtail for most of my local riding and a big bike (150mm travel) for Wales and bigger days out.
From what you've said, I think a good quality hardtail would be perfect. Cotic Solaris Max perhaps? A lot of carbon framed hardtails tend to be aimed more at the cross-country racers where weight really matters and you don't need a bum-in-the-air, steep head angle geometry.
I'd certainly look to go for 29" wheels rather than 27.5". I've got both and the bigger wheels do roll better and with the right geometry there's no need to sacrifice and manoeuvrability. The mtb industry is going longer, lower and slacker when it comes to geometry which gives you much better confidence downhill yet puts you in a good place to climb as well. Not as important on bridleways and towpaths but if you get into anything more technical it really helps.
Your other alternative would be a short-travel full-sus, again 29er, probably something around 120mm travel. YT Izzo for example? The thing to watch out for here again is that you don't end up with something too XC-focused. When you read the marketing blurb look for trail rather than XC.
I have two hardtails, both Cotic - a BFe and a Soul. Both are excellent bikes, handle really well and do everything I need. The BFe is a hoot, loves to be thrashed about and I don't miss rear suspension (having come from mega travel DH bikes when I was younger). The Soul is a more laid back XC bike but still loves the single track. My BFe cost me around £2,300 a few years ago to build from a mix of new/old parts. I bought the Soul used, again good spec, for about £750. Worth a look IMO. I'd have a look on the used market - if it has provenance to avoid anything dodgy, you could pick up a cracking hardtail for £1k-1.5k.
I have been Thinking the same thing. For me a decent hard tail makes sense. I am after a Whyte 905 or a Trek roscoe 8 and a second choice.
I think anything bikewise you are either going to find new in short supply or you will get a spanking trying to buy second hand at the moment. Bike sales are crazy atm. People are trying to sell things that the pikey's would refuse to take for daft prices.
Last edited by Harry Smith; 5th June 2020 at 16:20.
A friend wanted to buy a cheaper hardtail for her husband for their anniversary the other week and it was a nightmare just to find anything... she was spending about £400 and just getting hold of a medium sized mountain bike was a real challenge!
Look on the bright side, I’m a few months there’ll be a glut of unwanted bikes and kit on the market!
This in spades.
For the rough stuff, if ever, I'd avoid carbon. I've seen a broken carbon frame and it looked like death needles!!
I echo the majority of comments above....hardtail every time. Whyte are excellent but also worth checking out another small UK company Bird MTB. I've had one of the Zero's for a couple of years and it's taken me all over the Uk and even to New Zealand (I didn't pedal there!). Not expensive, easy to spec to your own requirements and pocket and best of all you don't bump into loads of people on the same bike every time you venture out.....
https://www.bird.bike/product-catego...bikes/zero-am/
If you’re a less experienced rider off road I’d suggest a hardtail. A full suss will grip the ground better especially downhill allowing you to go faster.
If you have an off you’ll be going faster on a full suss and may hurt yourself more.
Says the man who broke his elbow almost a year to date.
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This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A hardtail will allow you to enjoy 90% of trails , paths and trail centres. It will be quick on the flats and uphill and feel fast on the downhills.
Moving to full suspension means its sluggish on the flats and uphill, but comes into its own on the downhill.
I bought a Giant Anthem fs in 2010, it was only 80mm front and back so it was like a fast enduro bike. I now ride a bike with 150mm front and back and its so relaxed, but its a bit of a bugger when it comes to the climbs.
I would be honest about the type of riding you’re going to be doing. Then fit the bike to that. Hire or borrow a hard tail for the day (when the restrictions lift) then see if it is what you’re after.
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Depending on how much off road cycling you're contemplating have you considered a Gravel bike?
Old skool mountain bike style frame with drop handlebars and bigger tyre clearance. For that budget you can get a great carbon framed model with gravel specific Shimano GRX groupset.
Some models such as Specialized Diverge and GT Grade have effective built in suspension in the headset or the frame stays.
Worth a look if your off road routes will be more forest trails and at around 10kg the weight of a £8000 MTB.
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The 905 was always the one I nearly got.
At 62 I may be a bit long in the tooth now but I always thought the 905 was/is a class leader especially for the money.
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I bought an Anthem X4 that year too and still have it.
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I've seen more pedal reflectors on the trails over Rivington Moor recently than I've ever seen before, that've fallen off new bikes.
And 'back of the shed' bikes that have been retrieved for exercise.
Ebay will be bursting at the seems with unwanted bikes later in the year.
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Yup as with all good bikes I still have mine tucked in the garage , for occasional use by my son or wife.
Re Ebay being awash with bikes, I 100% agree. Where we are currently living the road rises steeply to go over the A55. I have lost count of the people pushing brand new bikes and 90’s clunkers up the hill.
I bought mine from Wheelies in Swansea who'd replaced one of my bikes that was stolen and they knocked 20% off, so at a then £1120 it was a cracking buy as it had Fox F100 forks and a Fox shock.
I saw a lad pushing a bike recently over Rivington and his wheel spindle had snapped which doesn't happen these days very often if at all.
Another one was a fairly modern bike but one of the front wheel spindle nuts had come off ??
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eBay certainly isn't the place to go for lightly used decent hardtails at the moment.
I was looking last week and spotted a 3 month old Vitus Sentier VR which retails new for £1099.
Last time I looked the day before it sold the bidding was was over £1000 not including delivery.
Now look......
It's a bit like the Rolex SS sports watch market!
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Don't want to side track things but would a self build hardtail be something easily doable for a 1st timer as possible savings could be made
Starting with frame only or with headset and BB ??
Very doable if you have all the tooling, very enjoyable too.
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BB fitting tool, BB facing if not done by manufacturer, bleed kit as you will inevitably need to shorten hoses, 5nm torque wrench for some bolts, headset press (can be improvised)
Chainwhip and cassette tool, chain splitter, a bike stand is quite useful too especially for gear indexing which can be a bit of a dark art.
I have built all my own bikes but usually get headsets fitted at a shop especially when it’s an expensive hand made Italian Road frame and a Chris King headset, built the tools up over time but not really worth doing if you are only likely to build one bike.
If you’ve seen from the Mountain Bike thread. I’ve had many mountain bikes. Early ones rigid, then some hard tail, some full suspension. I prefer full suspension, even when it’s not required.
If I’m trying to beat a Strava segment time I’m on a carbon road bike. For relaxed enjoyment and pleasure of cycling or riding with the kids I take the mountain bike. For budget reasons, (under £1000) my current mtb is a hardtail 29er, but if I was spending £2k I’d have a full suspension 29er.
More specifically Giant Anthem 29er from Paul’s Cyles at £1999 is bang on the money and all the bike you’d ever need.
If it were my money I'd be buying a Trek Procaliber 9.7 if you're sticking to the gravel/fire roads/smooth singletrack. It's light with the added bonus of an isocoupler which definitely takes the edge off small lumps and bumps over the course of a few hours in the saddle without a significant weight penalty.
If you haven't got the tools as detailed above then it's going to be hard, even trying to get parts at the moment is a bumache. If you were a bit closer I could build one for you. There are plenty of frames and parts around but the chancers and exploiters are buying those up as well atm. I'm sure if you put a query/wtb type thread up, someone in your area might be able to help with build.
Something like this may suit your needs , steel hard tails ride so much better than aluminium or carbon https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBOOBD...-mountain-bike
Go full suspension. Yes you will not use it’s full capabilities, yes it’s a bit heavier etc etc, but it will be a lot more comfortable which makes it easier to ride distance at a decent spend off road.
This was the biggest benefit for my Dad and brother when they both moved over from hardtails.
Just an idea...
When you ride your brother’s tomorrow, ride for a while... then lock the rear shock and ride a bit more.
Not a perfect test but just a thought.
(FWIW I went Hardtail and I ride some rough stuff, but that rough stuff is a very small proportion of my overall riding)
As others have said with £2K I’d be looking at a new hardtail or a 2nd hand full susser.
You ride already so you prob have some fitness - do you want speed and comfort and enough shock travel for most of the time (HT), or a potentially heavier FS plodder with 120mm+ F&R that you grind the hills out and maybe have a bit of a plusher descent on?
For me full sussers have sanitised a lot of mtb riding. Back to no suspension, 26” wheels and non-stopping cantilevers I say! You can then actually feel the trails, learn to handle the bike properly and not just bomb down them like you’re on a sofa.
Ian
PS I’d get a hardtail
Forget all that, i thought the op was oop nawth fsr lol.
Last edited by Harry Smith; 6th June 2020 at 17:48.
I certainly agree with the sanitised bit. However, a return to (trying - see what follows) slowing down because you are blind from your eyeballs bouncing in their sockets is not something I fancy experiencing again! As for the trying to slow down bit, do you actually ride with canti brakes now? I did some of the Polaris challenges as a youngster, one in particular was terrifying when part way down a lengthy descent being confronted with a near 90 degree left hander and realising my brakes were doing virtually nothing. Somehow made it round the corner. The ambulance at the bottom was taking care of someone less lucky who didn't make said corner. Gimme discs all the way pretty please, I'll conveniently ignore the times where I've had no braking effect there having boiled the fluid!
The learning to handle a bike is also accurate, much better achieved on a HT.
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