Reply With QuoteI did see something a watch group on Facebook some trader apparently doing this every week. Mmmd
This is a phenomenon which has ballooned from nothing within about twelve months.
Many of the promoters appear to be transient, shifty or both.
Are they appropriate competitions, matters of skill or games of chance alone? Do they need to be registered with the Gambling Commission or any other body?
Is the promoter always clearly identified?
Who checks that "winners" are selected correctly and not just stooges colluding with the provider?
Where promises to support charities are made, is it with the charity's prior blessing and who checks that the support really is given?
Where Instagram, Facebook or other medium allows almost anonymous provision, who can police those offering such promotions?
There is great opportunity for fraud or abuse and I smell lots of rats.
Verb. sap.
Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 28th May 2020 at 22:57.
I did see something a watch group on Facebook some trader apparently doing this every week. Mmmd
Last edited by taz11; 29th May 2020 at 00:03.
I think anyone with any sense wouldn't be buying tickets in these watch lotteries.
All over Instagram especially sponsored posts. Probably Facebook too. I doubt anyone wins and it's all a scam.
One this Facebook group the trader has delivered personally to a einikng ticket unless it's his mate
It's one of the obvious scams possible here, if not properly regulated / policed.Originally Posted by taz11
More and more people are selling their houses this way. It's hardly a deluge but I've seen a few cards through the letterbox about in the last year.
It's a clever way to sell something. But, as you say, buyer gambler beware.
Bad odds anyway...these people rarely meet the minimum amount to sell their property and offer a cash prize as the alternative but take a massive cut of the ticket sales to pay for promotion.
Locally to me, it’s car raffles. They’re everywhere. But I know a girl who won a BMW X5 worth about 30k, so that one at least was legit.
It's a gamble or whether or not you win, it's a gamble on whether or not charities benefit from it and even a gamble on whether or not it is entirely legitimate.
Everyone over the the age of 12 knows this and if they still want to proceed, then fair enough, it's their choice at the end of the day.
So if people are stupid, should society and the law allow crooks to take advantage of them?
Well, they allow Dominic Cummings and Johnson to ride roughshod over society, arguably killing thousands of people in the process. Compared with that , why would we worry about a lottery.
Hi Haywood
How far do we bend over to protect them, at the end of the day, every man jack of us needs to learn how to stand on our own two feet.
surely if you are a commercial venture don't you have to be regulated by the lotteries commission or something of that nature?
You feel this was an appropriate comment here?
To me it shows extraordinarily poor judgement for a man of your age and journalistic background.
So when you are old and vulnerable, Mick, should we just smile and wave cheerily at the gang of tanned men with horses who are “repairing your driveway” for £35,000 ?
That is a blatant criminal act and the perpetrator will be prosecuted.
Anyway, I am a tight fisted crabby old man, you would find it difficult, if not impossible, to get a penny out of me.
To be honest, I can fully understand your point of view but the danger is that we can over do the protection to the point that it impinges on normal life.
Anyone tried BOTB? Always see IG guys advertising it but never clicked on it. You can win cars and watches.
like a wally i had a go a couple of times when going through an airport which was where they started, always cars, not seen them do watches although they do this online i would imagine. Legit but chances of winning is pretty slim, bit like the old days with spot the ball on the littlewoods pools
Once referred to by someone I know as "A tax on the stupid".
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The G&D no politics rule has been all but ignored recently, looks like watch talk is next in line for assorted axe grinders.
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Maybe not wearing a seatbelt shouldn't illegal for the same reason? Getting into a car and not wearing one is a table isn't it? Everyone over 12 knows that. Whatever happens, happens.
Ive noticed loads of these on facebook of late. Never paid much attention but they seem to be sponsored and the comments are falling over themselves.
Discussions about the morality of a watch lottery are , inevitably, bound up with the way we behave as a society, and how we see rules and laws regulated. And , like it or not, that’s a much bigger theme these days. The watch industry/hobby is not separate from the world.
My original post questioned the legality and honesty of watch lottery / "competition" promotions.
You introduced the issues of morality and politics with a comment barely worthy of an undergraduate.
I am glad that I don't run the country - but not as glad as I am that you don't, either!
Be well.
The most prominent ones that I notice are from BOTB who also run the 'Win a supercar' raffles in airport duty frees - as an AIM listed company I'm sure they would be compelled to comply with any Government legislation in the area, and as a listed company, the Quality Companies Alliance code.
The competitions I'd worry about are be the ones run by smaller operators who have jumped on the 'Win a...' bandwagon on the back of BOTB's success/visibility.
Personally I'm troubled with the impact these ads and competitions have on teens, who see them on social media being promoted by influencers, opening a gateway to more serious, long-term gambling issues.
The ones to which others and I are referring are all over Facebook, Instagram (and some direct emails), provided often by individuals or small businesses - if the promoter can be identified at all.
Legitimate competitions and draws do exist, of course, but I suspect that if we did a Venn diagram to illustrate the position it would look something not unlike the Specsavers logo.....
You are right to be concerned Haywood.
I see these draws all over FB and although I always ignore stuff like that I can't help but think that many (most?) are illegal.
The promises of prizes, charity donations etc are really just hearsay but I guess plenty of people have a punt thinking they can risk a few quid which is what the organisers rely on.
Cheers,
Neil.
Not everyone over 12 knows this and many people need protecting. That’s what decent people try and do.
This is watch talk - inappropriate comment for here. I’m sure you know where the bear pit is if you’re desperate to get that point over.
I keep seeing loads of them and I wouldn’t trust any of them. Big fall out on a FB group recently with sellers and admin and it just makes you think even more, stick to dealing with people who have a solid reputation with some history behind them. I guess spending/gambling £50 to win a £10,000 watch is too tempting for some to resist.
But I think these have popped up as a result of the success and visibility of the legitimate ones, and with BOTB branching into offering lifestyle prizes like cash, holidays and watches if give these chancers an opportunity to ride their coat-tails.
Facebook and Instagram have a poor record of enforcing any kind of restrictions on those willing to disseminate all kinds of false information and scams so it gives these opportunists an easy platform to take advantage of people. I don't think that legislation would do much because they are scammers and opportunists who would not play heed to the law, and the platforms wouldn't remove the ads and sponsored posts as they place the onus on the scammers to comply with the law. They might just add a disclaimer box for the competition advertisers to tick when uploading the ads where they say they state they follow any local legislation, which would be completely ineffective but allow the social media companies to shout how they're tackling the issue.
@ stelmo01
I don't disagree with you at all
I remember seeing them on a watch site for registering on the site. I wouldnt entertain buying a ticket from even that site.
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It is a con and it's prospering becasue people like trading standards are hobbled by the lockdown.
You have no idea how many tickets they plan to sell so even if you get the prize it may be a small fraction of the ticket sales. You have no way of knowing if a "mate" wins the prize and then runs the whole con all over again the following week.
None of those that claim to support a charity are FR regulated as far as I can see.
Last year I encountered BOTB at the airport whilst walking past. The staff member whilst polite was quite forceful in his approach to make a sale. Despite being in a good mood as I am about to embark on a holiday, I still said no. I am quite tight and would rather spend the money on my children or on the sausage muffins/wraps and coffee before my flight. Getting away was not easy and I had to say a few times that I will come back after a coffee. I cannot remember the cost but whatever it was, it was too much for me. I think I would have much better luck on the lottery spending the same amount (regardless of the actual odds).
Whilst it all seems legitimate, I do not have complete trust (without any foundation or reasoning, possibly just based on being tight). For watch prizes, it just feels dodgy. All watches ‘won’ by friends and family, assuming the prizes actually exist.
Check out https://dreamcargiveaways.co.uk/
They have a huge following & easily sell out most items.
All draws are live & they use google number generator, doing several tests before announcing each draw.
One of the other forums I frequently use has had several winners including T6 camper, M3 & McLaren.
No skill just pays your money & await the draw or call.
To the original question, not really.
I did buy a BOTB ticket once at Gatwick, but they always seem like a gamble to me and these schemes seem no difference.
Someone will get lucky, more likely you'll have wasted the price of the ticket.
If you like a gamble, it's no different to betting on a horse race, 12 coming up at the casino or the national lottery (I do buy those now and then), but you have to accept your odds of winning are remote.
Whilst whatever the car that I bought a ticket for appealed at the time, a Rolex doesn't, so I doubt I'd ever bother, even if the financial benefit of winning (unlikely though that would be) would be obvious.
ETA Obviously my comments relate to regulated, honest raffles, scammers should be strung up by their testicles from Tower Bridge as a warning to others. That said, anyone who takes up any offer on Facebook without investigating it properly is an idiot and deserves little sympathy. I've seen quite a few things advertised on there but always been able to easily find them far cheaper within a few minutes.
M
Last edited by snowman; 31st May 2020 at 10:10.
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
My original question was not aimed at "regulated, honest raffles" though.
Any time I go on Facebook I seem to see a car raffle. I’ve not seen the Rolex ones, but I guess anything with value that’s desirable is fair game these days.
I’m generally cynical, but a few seem to be legit. I’m not averse to the concept though.
You’re too polite! If a simple “No thanks” doesn’t work, I think I’d be using some choice language to emphasise that I’m definitely not interested.
I think as I had shown interest in the car which I now cannot remember, I can only blame myself!
The sales tactics/pressure was quite strong.
(Not as strong however as a lady who tried to sell some aftershave at the airport after a quick spray on the hand. I have had panel interviews that have been less stressful than that encounter.)
No, I realized that after rereading your post.
M
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Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
At least a watch is a reasonable size, I've just seen a raffle for a forklift on Facebook 👀
Just bumping this as I received a phone call at work today from a gentleman wanting a white 116500 and a 126710BLRO.
He was from one of the outfits running these social media competitions, didn't have the watch, hadn't sold enough tickets to buy the watch, and wanted us to supply the watch with payment later once he had sold the tickets.
Avoid them like the damned plague please.
Blimey - the cheek!
Cheers,
Neil.
Isn't that wonderful?
I had one approach me for an LV on 19th June: timelesswatchdraw@gmail.com Offered to relieve me of other professional models, too. So grateful, as I just can't shift the things
Made it clear that we would not be supplying him at any price.
There is a nasty stink to many of these "competitions" / "draws" and I'm disappointed to see one or two (perhaps weaker) high street stores now associating themselves, not just the questionable ones one might expect.
Mmm, apparently we could make good business together. Brass neck!
I can imagine it going the way of the Australian chap who in his desperation to secure a pre-sold Daytona bought a fake and bombed himself, or rather would have had you not mentioned that some retailers are actually going with it. (whaaaaaaat!)
Don't understand; please try again!
My Sons mate paid £2.99 for a ticket and won a 116610,Ive seen it and offered to buy it,he doesnt want to sell.
Come on-everyone has a price. Have you offered him a tenner?
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