Reply With QuoteTry Eastman Leather Clothing, fantastic attention to detail and customer service. Speak to Gary and let him know what you’re after.
I've lusted after one of these for years, now I'm able to look for one & it's a bit of a minefield.
Because of my height & width I'm likely to have to get one made, so I'm looking for recommendations for a reputable maker.
I'd be grateful for any suggestions from A2 owners.
Try Eastman Leather Clothing, fantastic attention to detail and customer service. Speak to Gary and let him know what you’re after.
Thanks, I will contact them. I've looked at the website, the prices look steep, is the quality reflective of the price?
Years ago I got heavily into these and a friend who was super knowledgeable said the most basic thing in a premium jacket is a one-piece back, all the really cheap stuff are not so and is a quick indicator of quality (even poser brands Ralph Lauren etc. at £700 are not one-piece...).
If budget allows go Eastman, Aero or Simmons Bilt (and a couple others I can't recall offhand), are all top notch but yup not cheap approaching a grand but are 'lifetime' jackets. Everything else such as Avirex, Schott, etc. are lesser quality and that's reflected in the price. Not bad jackets but a level below the above true handmade gear; end of the day it's a budget decision.
If at all possible go to their factory/outlet as the leathers vary enormously (or get samples), horse is the traditional leather for these but it's heavy and stiff and takes some getting used to!
FerdoraLounge dot com is a good resource if you haven't seen it; seem to recall a member here has something to do with it too.
Thanks again. I will contact Eastman & see if they can help me. Does anyone know anything about Aviation Leathercraft? Their jackets look nice but not as dear as Eastman.
Aviation Leathercraft make lovely jackets but they are not as authentic in their detailing of the finer elements as ELC. Down to you and what you want, authentic ELC vs value for money Aviation Leathercraft
Just looked at the ELC site - they only go up 48" chest which might be a drama. I'll call tomorrow, I just rang but they close at 1600.Originally Posted by Cat7
I had an Aviation Leathercraft Irvin Flying Jacket, which was excellent quality and would last a lifetime. However, I never found a time when it was cold enough to wear it!Guess if you're in an unheated aeroplane it would be perfect. Sold it after 5 or so years of not wearing it much to a guy who lived somewhere up in the highlands and he was pleased as punch with it!
Haven't had their A2, but I think their quality is good.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Haha... could have typed that myself, although I've hung on to mine.I had an Aviation Leathercraft Irvin Flying Jacket, which was excellent quality and would last a lifetime. However, I never found a time when it was cold enough to wear it!
Haven't had their A2, but I think their quality is good.
Eastman, Aero, Aviation Leathercraft... can't go wrong with any of them. I'd also add Schott NYC to the list, although not always easy to find in the UK.
This is another collecting obsession of mine
My go too A2 maker are Aero Leather
I have 2 from them. They are made or order but do have some off the shelf and their sizing runs a little small but the cut is true to the original jackets so they are a slimmer fit than more modern jackets.
I also have one of their Irvins
Real McCoy in New Zealand are another maker worth looking at.
One to avoid is the modern USAF issue Cooper. The cut is awful and they have been coated with flame retardant coating that makes the jacket really plasticky and stiff. (The modern G1s are the same)
Like all threads it needs some pictures
Seal Brown Aero leather in 46L
Russet Aero in 44R (this is a tad to short and tight in the chest and upper arms for me)
It has the ‘blood chit’ on the back and inside
If you are after an accurate copy these are a few things to look out for:
As mentioned they should have a once piece back, this is usually a good indicator of quality
In the pictures above you will notice that there are no hand warmer pockets, just the 2 patch pockets on the front (this was so Airman could not stand around with the hands in their pockets) there is also no inside pocket.
There are no buttons on the wind flap just the hook closer.
Air vents under the arms. These should go through the lining
Hanging strap stitched through the leather.
I should also add that they were made of Horse Hide (both above are), goat skin or Seer hide.
Last edited by Sinnlover; 26th May 2020 at 18:33.
They were cut for teenagers and young men.
I had an original WW2 Poughkeepsie A2. I reckon a modern 40” needs a vintage or vintage pattern 42”. I also reckon the A2s were cut short, trouser waistbands were much higher in the 1940s.
Still have a 1960s USN G1. Haven’t worn it since Mrs Casper started calling it a ‘George Bush’ jacket.
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Last edited by BillyCasper; 26th May 2020 at 18:23.
You are correct! The cuts were much slimmer back then (so we’re humans) all jackets of this era are shorter in the body, as you say trousers were cut higher
I have to wear a vest to keep my bellywarm when I wear my Irvin!!!
I have a couple of G1s as well.
Mid 70s US Marine G1
1980s G1
Pre Pearl Harbour M422a
Then there are the cloth jackets...
So many jackets
Last edited by Sinnlover; 26th May 2020 at 18:41.
Nice fade on that sheepskin collar.
Mine’s a 1968 Star Sportswear.
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Cheers it’s in good nick for 80 years old
There's some beautiful jackets on here! Reading the posts I'm afraid I'm not going to be able to find an A2. At 6'4" with a 54"chest & a long back I seem to be outside the usual sizings.
I'll try the recommended makers & see if they can help me out.
Talk to Aero the owner is a top bloke and will be happy to help, he also does some larger sizes.
I am 6-2 with a 44 chest (I have a long body) and the 46 long is the more comfortable size for me (especially with a jumper on) so I am guessing you will need a 58L
I bought an Aero leather cafe racer jacket off here about 5 years ago... unbelievable quality (horse hide) and will easily last the rest of my life.
It wasn't cheap, even pre-loved, but will probably return better VFM than anything else I own.
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Thanks, I'll definitely follow this up.
Any of the made-to-measure guys will add an inch or two length to suit your manly frame
What's written on the blood chit?This is another collecting obsession of mine
My go too A2 maker are Aero Leather
I have 2 from them. They are made or order but do have some off the shelf and their sizing runs a little small but the cut is true to the original jackets so they are a slimmer fit than more modern jackets.
I also have one of their Irvins
Real McCoy in New Zealand are another maker worth looking at.
One to avoid is the modern USAF issue Cooper. The cut is awful and they have been coated with flame retardant coating that makes the jacket really plasticky and stiff. (The modern G1s are the same)
Like all threads it needs some pictures
Seal Brown Aero leather in 46L
Russet Aero in 44R (this is a tad to short and tight in the chest and upper arms for me)
It has the ‘blood chit’ on the back and inside
If you are after an accurate copy these are a few things to look out for:
As mentioned they should have a once piece back, this is usually a good indicator of quality
In the pictures above you will notice that there are no hand warmer pockets, just the 2 patch pockets on the front (this was so Airman could not stand around with the hands in their pockets) there is also no inside pocket.
There are no buttons on the wind flap just the hook closer.
Air vents under the arms. These should go through the lining
Hanging strap stitched through the leather.
I should also add that they were made of Horse Hide (both above are), goat skin or Seer hide.
A recipe for beef rangdang as far as I can tell...
It is along the lines of:
‘I am an American pilot. My plane has been shot down and I am helpless, but I want to get back and fight again for the peace of the world and your country.
If you will help me and yourselves by getting me to the nearest American unit, my Government will reward you. Help me and we will help you.’
The inside of this jacket has a similar note in Chinese printed on silk.
It was a common thing to do in the Far East campaign.
Last edited by Sinnlover; 27th May 2020 at 10:15.
I think it's origins lie in the American Volunteer Group in China in the late 30s but I think something similar was used in the first Gulf War.
Cockpit USA have a huge range of different cuts, colours and styles of A2, cut to the original patern and various updated versions. They go up to 60 chest and are available in long fitting as well.
They offer international shipping, you'll have to add 20% VAT to the advertised prices, but perhaps you'll find what you are looking for.
https://www.cockpitusa.com/men/a-2-flight-jackets
As others have said/intimated it is difficult to rationalise having an Irvin in our climate but they are such lovely things to have and hold. I had two and an original WW2 example, sold them all. I do keep a 40yo Cockpit Clothing Co. replica which tbh is indistinguishable from an original wartime Irvin, I treat it to a good feed of leather unction every so often.
Won a Real McCoy G-1 some years back (a lot) in a comp in FlyPast magazine. Was a good jacket.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
I’ve owned Aero jackets for over 35 years and have had a couple of their A2s. They are very happy to accommodate sizing alterations in newly made jackets - my A2s were 48” with an extra 2” length in the back as I recall, my current Aero Veste de Rallye has an extra 4” length (I’m 6’ 3”). The forums can be a bit of a rabbit hole and there’s historically been a lot of debate between fans of Eastmann and Aero - it’s almost like football (or watch) fans ;). I’ve only ever had positive experiences with Aero and can recommend a day out to their factory in Galashiels in the Scottish Borders if you get a chance, loads of amazing jackets and the ability to try on/check sizing.
Another recommendation for Aero, I have had a few jackets from them including an A2 in oil pull horsehide, it was a beautiful jacket to wear and aged very well. Great customer service from them too.
Sorry, no help to the OP but - a really interesting thread! I had a friend who had Aviation Leathercraft Irvin and I tried it during one of our winters when it we had some proper snow. It really was fabulous although I was surprised at the weight. I really wanted one but like others have mentioned, I couldn't see me using it especially as our climate gets warmer. It did make me want to buy a Caterham 7 though!
Post back when you get one!
My Aviation Leathercraft flying jacket was too bulky to wear in my Caterham 7, S3 chassis with tillet racing seats, they’re far too small and cramped inside with tillets and the harnesses wouldn't wrap around the bulk of the jacket.
They’re all great jackets in their own way
The G1 is actually a more comfortable jacket, the pleated back means there is more room to move, it is also more roomy in the shoulder and upper arms. The wool collar means it’s a tad warmer as well.
However it was a lot more complex and expensive to make but the US Navy did not mind as they had a larger budget than the Air Crops and a smaller number of jackets to order.
As people can probably tell I am fascinated by these items of clothing even though I have no interest in fashion what so ever - my standard ‘look’ is the pulled through a hedge backwards look. I have more books on the A2 jacket than watch books
One last geek fact - the A2 jacket was one of the first, if not the first item of clothing designed to use a zip as a fastening method. When they were introduced the zip had only just been perfected for mass production.
Right I will stop boring everyone
OP I hope you get your jacket!!!!
Thanks for the replies, I'm learning a lot! Aero are also going on my list.
@Sinnlover - can you recommend a good book about A2s or flight jackets in general? I also love the Alpha CWU 45 but they don't come in my size either. They go to 5XL but it's only the chest that increases, not the back length. They don't go North of 6' - 6'2".
These are a good place a to start
This one is about the development, use and influence the jacket has had on other clothing it also reviews modern makers but it is a bit out of date
This one is more pictorial, and has jackets from pre WW2 to desert storm.
This one is again pictorial but is focused on the A2
Whilst not focused on the jackets this book is about the life of a US Airman in the UK so lots of period pictures.
With regard to modern jackets most modern airforces place a height limit on pilots at 6-2/ 6-3 as they can’t fit in the cockpit / ejector seat if taller, (BA used to do the same for its pilots - I know this as I applied when I left uni but I am pretty much blind in one eye) hence the lack of larger/ longer jackets.
Last edited by Sinnlover; 27th May 2020 at 09:05.
Not wanting to detract from the OP topic - but if you haven't already, from what I've read on here, I suspect you could open your own museum! Fantastic stuff!
Did you have to replace the waistband and cuff knits on your vintage jackets?
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Yes the originals were unwearable but I still have them
The work was done by Aero Leather. - they also restore original jackets.
I have an original B15 as well that still has its knits, it’s in a shocking condition being more repair than jacket now.
The G1s are all original.
Last edited by Sinnlover; 27th May 2020 at 09:41.
The Mrs says our garage already is a museum!
Some are hers (3/4) but the majority are my collection.
Last edited by Sinnlover; 27th May 2020 at 09:30.
I'm a Cranwell reject, being tall didn't help...These are a good place a to start
This one is about the development, use and influence the jacket has had on other clothing it also reviews modern makers but it is a bit out of date
This one is more pictorial, and has jackets from pre WW2 to desert storm.
This one is again pictorial but is focused on the A2
Whilst not focused on the jackets this book is about the life of a US Airman in the UK so lots of period pictures.
With regard to modern jackets most modern airforces place a height limit on pilots at 6-2/ 6-3 as they can’t fit in the cockpit / ejector seat if taller, (BA used to do the same for its pilots - I know this as I applied when I left uni but I am pretty much blind in one eye) hence the lack of larger/ longer jackets.
Couple of sites if you haven't found them.
www.vintageleatherjackets.org
www.acmedepot.com
Acmedepot is a good site - not read it for a while
I have never seen the forum before - that’s opened up another avenue for me waste hours of time
Cheers
John
I reckon the British one is in a Burmese language and says:
"Dear friend, I am an allied fighter. I did not come here to do any harm to you who are my friends. I only want to do harm to the Japanese and chase them away from this country as quickly as possible. if you will assist me, my government will sufficiently reward you when the Japanese are driven away,"
My father was in that region and I think they were fatalistic about their chances and use of parachute or side-arm if they came down over Burma, Thailand, Malaya, Indonesia or French Indo-China. They would be sold to the Japanese.
On sizing, I remember him as a normal size man for somebody born in the 1920s. He joined early in 1943 war at 17 and came from an economically very poor family. His chest size on induction was 29" and still was Med. Cat. Grade 1. That seems tiny.
Height isn’t the main constraint. When you went to Biggin Hill for the selection they would measure you in every position possible so your leg length, calf and thigh lengths, back height, sitting height were all within the specs for the aircraft seatsWith regard to modern jackets most modern airforces place a height limit on pilots at 6-2/ 6-3 as they can’t fit in the cockpit / ejector seat if taller, (BA used to do the same for its pilots - I know this as I applied when I left uni but I am pretty much blind in one eye) hence the lack of larger/ longer jackets.
Most old school flying jackets are really short because there designed to wear sitting in a seat for hours. Modern ones are longer so posers can wear them over flying suits to pick the women up.
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Just added a couple of books to my Amazon list. American Flight Jackets is £60!
Is it really!
Wow!
One for the geeks like me I guess
I always take Frank Sinatra as a good representation of men of that era: absolutely tiny!
When making On the Town he allegedly had padding sewn into his sailors' outfit to make his butt more shapely
Of course Ol’ Blue Eyes also wore an A2 in Von Ryan’s Express, the jacket was later worn by Bob Crane in the pilot episode of Hogans Hero’s. (Although a copy was made for the series apparently)
I did say it was obsession
Just called Aero Leather, the nice lady didn't laugh, she gave me a list of measurements to send in & they'd see what they could do.
There's a Fred Astaire film I remember where he urgently needs evening dress, he asks someone to go out and buy him a Tux - 36" chest.
Have a look at these guys, stuff is supposed to be top notch.
http://www.aeroleatherclothing.com/
maseman
Thanks, I've sent them my measurements, I await a response but fingers X'd. I rang Eastman today but they regrettably couldn't help.
And that was with his fisherman's jumper underneath!
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