Reply With QuoteVery nice - I was just looking at a similar effort coming out from Ball which given how quick they drop in value could be a very reasonable option when it appears on the grey market sites:
Oh but wait, I think this is actually rather nice! Distinct enough, thought it has a bit of a Zenith Defy look about it, cracking dial and an absolute gorgeous movement. Just a small catch - 18,000 CHF of a catch. Strong pricing for a 'horizontal manufacture' that is still new to the market (I'd say Ming also falls in this category) but it does look fab. Pass me the red version please!
https://monochrome-watches.com/czape...-price-review/
Very nice - I was just looking at a similar effort coming out from Ball which given how quick they drop in value could be a very reasonable option when it appears on the grey market sites:
I have to say, that looks splendid in my view. I might be tempted to take a punt on one, but with no experience of the brand perhaps that would be too much of a gamble. Burgundy dial version is beautiful. Has anyone handled any of their other watches, and therefore got a feel for their quality and finish?
Yes, I have - finishing and quality is good. The introduction range Quai des Burges is on par with my Ming 19.01, though I do no think as elaborate. The Vaucher driven chronograph is excellent, but also priced accordingly (I think 25k). No doubt this movement finishing will be on 19.02 level, if not finer.Originally Posted by Skyman
Oh god I just noticed that, wholly unnecessary
Looks lovely but very expensive. Really like movement in particular
Secret alloy seems to be the name of one of the four dial colours, reading through the article, but no need to have on the case backOh god I just noticed that, wholly unnecessary
Oh god I just noticed that, wholly unnecessary
"Secret Alloy" seems (also?) to refer to one of the four face options: Deep Blue, Black Ink, Burgundy, and "SA".
That movement is gorgeous. Less keen on the front though, and I think that's caused by the odd centre links that remain for the straps? The photo of the blue on blue makes those links look very loosely fitted. Both sides of the strap are unevenly fitted too, maybe as a result of the play in that link.
Reminds me of the Kickstarter Schaffen watch from a couple of years ago. Finishing obviously multiple levels higher.
Ah yes it is, good spot!
I mean most of them share this style, though indeed it seems much more refine here. I do prefer it on the older IWCs however.
I’ve been looking at these online for a few days now. Did anyone here take a punt on one in the end?
Jura stock them for £17.9k and as usual have discount codes flying around but even at £15k after discount surely a VC Overseas is the logical move?
Another similar model caught my eye recently….
Although more modestly priced.
z
Last edited by zelig; 25th December 2021 at 15:06.
I've been looking at these for months now - I dislike the term "grail" but for me this would qualify. I even looked to see if I could get a reasonably priced used one, but as a genuine LE they seem to hold their value. While I understand the historical significance of the "big 3" for me this is every bit as good with regards to the movement and finish, and even better can be brought from the manufacturer at retail!!I’ve been looking at these online for a few days now. Did anyone here take a punt on one in the end?
Jura stock them for £17.9k and as usual have discount codes flying around but even at £15k after discount surely a VC Overseas is the logical move?
Nice to see something different, even if the prices are so high. I’ve been looking for a sports watch with integrated bracelet, and not one of the usual culprits. The Wempe is well priced if a little dull.
The search continues.
My Kickstarter purchase from earlier in the year - a Batavi Architect for around 400 Euros.
I tried on a few Czapek models at an event about 3 years ago and thought the dials and casework were, to me, up there with watches I have tried on from the likes of PP, VC and AP.I’ve been looking at these online for a few days now. Did anyone here take a punt on one in the end?
Jura stock them for £17.9k and as usual have discount codes flying around but even at £15k after discount surely a VC Overseas is the logical move?
I would really like to try on one of the new models.
The problem for me is I am looking for something that won’t become the next “must have”. Unfortunately I think that this, along with a Moser Streamliner, will sooner rather than later become part of that category.
I'm sure people understand Francois Czapek and his fellow Pole Antoine Norbert de Patek founded the precursor to Patek Philippe - Patek, Czapek & Cie.
Of course like many prestige watch companies they died out and had to be re-established after the quartz revolution and this is the case with Czapek however it is also exactly the case with Breguet and A Lange Sohne to name some others so basically this has a very strong and exclusive heritage
I don’t think logic comes into it. I haven’t handled a real life Czapek but in renders and photos it looks just beautiful to my eyes, whereas the VC overseas looks like something one might have bought from Debenhams.I’ve been looking at these online for a few days now. Did anyone here take a punt on one in the end?
Jura stock them for £17.9k and as usual have discount codes flying around but even at £15k after discount surely a VC Overseas is the logical move?
If I could walk in and buy the Czapek for £15k I’d likely do so but I doubt Jura could really supply one any time soon. They have no stock and Czapek say the earliest delivery in October 2022. I wonder if Jura would take an order and lock the discounted price in?
Never knew that Lange suffered from the quartz revolution. Every day is a school day.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
In the case of Lange I should have been more specific and stated they are a company that was more recently re-founded as opposed to being continuously in operation like Patek etc. They of course didn't suffer from the quartz revolution - I believe being part of Soviet-controlled East Germany probably wasn't optimal for the company.
That's probably why the big 3 are considered to be Patek, VC and AP etc - the fact they have an unbroken history. If it wasn't for Breguet's broken history surely they'd be seen as at least equal to Patek and probably ahead of VC and certainly ahead of AP, particularly given the status of Louis-Abraham Breguet as arguably the most brilliant watchmaker and designer in history. And for sure Lange is not inferior to the Big 3 either.
I've got a WTB for one of these right now.
Some of the normal dials are a bit meh. The true LTD editions though are amazing.
A number of releases never make it to retail as they get sold out before the official announcement it would seem.
Annoying that their UK presence is thin and one of their ADs has too many red flags
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I remember last Xmas Jura had their Quai De Berges models at something like 40% off. I was tempted at the time.
https://www.jurawatches.co.uk/produc...rake-deep-blue
This looks amazing to me.
That’s the one I’d be taking. Incredible.
Not my photos but some of my favourite dials.. I had the white dial in my basket last week but pulled out as it's too similar to my 4500v
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There are lots of brands that have been dormant or have changed ownership .
I think this is different with a new start-up choosing a name from horology’s distant past, yet having no real link to it. To be fair, they aren’t alone in this, Moritz Grossmann and Graham come to mind. I suppose it gives the new company a story to tell.
I think the watches are good on their own merits.
Dave
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Moser and Nomos are others
As above, nice watches but they are trying a bit too hard with the Patek link. Would have been better to start clean brand and just make nice watches as an independent, I would like it more that way.
Which historical name from horology’s past did Nomos chose?
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Its not a criticism of those brands its more that people tend to make a big thing about "History" and many brands out there are resurrected or have some distant relative tied in to try and create some kind of history and continuity. I don't think its really relevant or necessary personally.
Nomos were a brand that existed between 1906 and 1911 in Glashutte Germany.
- - - Updated - - -
Nomos
Don't think the Nomos of 1906 has any horological relevance, as it was only a trading outfit rather than a watchmaker? I have never seen the current Nomos use it in their marketing.
When it comes to Lange, I find it highly unfair to lump them together with brands like Grossman or Moser who were founded using a historical name without any real connection.
The Lange company was stolen from their rightful owners and the company and trademark were reclaimed as soon as the rule of law was reinstituted in Eastern Germany.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Raffe’s Lange point is entirely correct.
I think this is somewhat different than picking a name from the past and picking out a descendant for some continuity. It’s a bit of a shame in my eyes as Moser, MG, Czapek are doing good work that doesn’t need any historical fluff.
D
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Logic hardly comes into it in this hobby/obsession of ours, right? To each their own, but I think this looks better than the VC Overseas. Tail end of the second hand seems a little large, but I could live with that.I’ve been looking at these online for a few days now. Did anyone here take a punt on one in the end?
Jura stock them for £17.9k and as usual have discount codes flying around but even at £15k after discount surely a VC Overseas is the logical move?
I've seen the Czapek started to be pushed a little on instagram. Not sure of the motives of those pushing the brand but imagine they will become hard to get in the short term atleast. Must admit I do like the look of the bracelet, but I also like the look of the new parmigiani tonda intergeated sports watch. However do I like them enough to part with circa £15k is another question.
I’m also unsure about the motives of those pushing it on instagram and I’m not too keen on the seconds hands.
This from Wikipedia is a bit deflating. Doubt they would have revived the name if there wasn’t a connection to Patek.In 2011, Xavier de Roquemaurel, a luxury marketing consultant and watch lover, Harry Guhl an art expert, and Sébastien Follonier, a watchmaker, came together to revive Czapek.
Still, a good looking watch just going to be difficult to handle in the flesh beforehand.
The original Nomos had watches made in Switzerland, I think it was the original Lange who took them to court over breaching the Glashutte rules and they closed.
That is my point. The new Nomos never claimed their heritage as their never was one in the first place.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Out of interest, I found this
https://pioneerchronicles.com/enter-the-entrepreneurs/
Dave
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This has been an interesting discussion! I've still not managed to get hands on with the watch unfortunately, though reports are good.
I have a few issues however that in my book make me hesitant with buying this watxh -
- the whole branding and revival of a name I simply don't like. No its not related to the watch per say, but the lack of honesty is an issue - I mean just put your own names on the watch.
- Czapek have done quite a lot of variations and collabs. I personally prefer them to make a few dial variations and just make more of them. Symptom of the whole limited edition which I find fatiguing.
I like the idea of the watch, but honestly not for me.
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I get what you mean about picking a defunct but historical name and using it to establish “heritage”. What I do think perhaps single them out as trying to do the brand justice is:
The research and development of the proprietary calibre featured in the Czapek & Cie Quai des Bergues watch, the case, and production of the first series, was financed by friends and private investors to the tune of half a million Swiss Francs
Taking inspiration from the unusual sub-dial positioning seen on the historical pocket watches by Czapek, the Czapek & Cie Quai des Bergues dial has sub-dials at 4:30 and 7:30, giving this piece its own look
In order to raise enough capital to do their labour of love justice, they created a preceding, small-run chronograph utilising an historic calibre from the seventies. The C73 is a manual wind chronograph that powered the Czapek Design Study Chronograph, which was sold to a small circle of friends.
Rather than just use the name to generate sales and “credibility” and pay little or no heed to the watches made under the original brand, they’ve invested a significant amount of money, time and serious thought and craftsmanship, which so far I think can justify their aims. I’d happily buy one.
I’m somewhere between both of these. I’d much prefer if they hadn’t revived a name linked to Patek but they do look like seriously nice watches.
On the subject of provenance, none of the supposed 'Holy Trinity' has been in continuous manufacture since their “beginnings” in the 18th Century. Also the reason Lange and Breguet aren't in there is because the Trinity are Swiss. Lange is German and Breguet is French.
I read on another forum that the only watch manufacturer that can claim a direct, continuous line to the early 18th century is actually Raketa from Russia (the Petrodvorets Watch Factory opened in 1721 making large clocks and cut stone).
The three oldest, continuous watch manufacturers currently active today?
Longines (1832)
Omega (1848)
Tissot (1853)
All Swatch Group!
Lesson learned- even the supposed Holy Trinity lineage and 'continuous heritage' is marketing guff!
The movement looks really interesting.
Is this in-house, something modified or something sourced as is?
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Vacheron Constantin - 1755 (or 1819 if you go by the date they started using VC)
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From Ryan’s post does that not still mean Raketa are the oldest?
I believe, sourced, modified and exclusive to Czapek. Definitely a nice looking movement. My last criticism of sticking to a few variations still holds, but I really would like to see one in the metal.
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