Mrs. Walakalulu insists on the weekly shop items to be washed with soap and water before storing. Also the post is left a few days to “decontaminate”. I’m not disputing that this may be sensible but is such behaviour common?
Mrs. Walakalulu insists on the weekly shop items to be washed with soap and water before storing. Also the post is left a few days to “decontaminate”. I’m not disputing that this may be sensible but is such behaviour common?
Depends on your personal situation I think...your overall exposure and the potential severity of outcome if you caught the virus.
If you are shielding, older than 80, have an underlying health condition or are particularly unfit then it could be seen as an effective barrier because in that case it’s one of very few routes to catching the virus.
I think for others who are out and about working or who catching coronavirus isn’t as statistically high a risk of complication I wouldn’t bother. Personally, I’ve only been in lockdown because it’s mandated for the greater good. If it was just about me, I’m not that bothered about catching it and would just use hand washing/not touching my face as the main barrier against a most likely outcome of a week feeling a bit poorly.
Last edited by Christian; 23rd May 2020 at 14:19.
I do this as does my partner (vulnerable to chest infections pneumonia) at her place as do my self isolating parents.
Dettol spray/antiviral wipes. Tins/boxes/non-perishables I just leave in a box by the door for a few days.
At the moment none of us are visiting shops and it’s all delivered.
It serves 2 purposes, partly not worrying about getting CV-19 and then minimising the very small risk. I do think the former not the latter is of more benefit though.
The risks are outlined here: https://www.bfr.bund.de/en/can_the_n...s_-244090.html
Having seen how the staff and customers behave in the supermarket with touching things and putting them back and checkout staff wearing gloves but then pulling out snotty hankies and wiping their nose then scanning your shopping I’m happy to keep doing this.
I appreciate the risk is small and that many people are just carrying on as normal.
I do that and leave them in the sun.
I did it with a bar of choccy the wrapper was porous and it made me sick so had to bin it,delicate items I spray onto a cloth and wipe now.
you cant be to careful.
On the whole I think it is ott, as is quarantining post. I sort of wonder if people are planning to do this for the rest of time?
That said, if it makes you feel happier and less vulnerable then go for it.
I think that’s a good point. I don’t think coronavirus is ever really going away now as I really think the vaccine might never happen. If coronavirus stresses you, maybe you could adjust your risk management like quarantining post dependent on where we are in relation to a peak.Originally Posted by village
I'll put £50 into the fundraiser if we don't have a viable vaccine being injected into humans by end October this year. And I also don't think it will even be that necessary as we've seen several countries who have reopened a while back see their new infection rates either diminish to a minuscule amount (Denmark, Norway, Thailand) or in some cases be eradicated altogether (Slovenia). This coronavirus strangely seems to be acting like a coronavirus and burning out after the initial boom! I'm not going into the details as it ends up going off the rails as ma y people have been scared to death by irresponsible media reporting suffice to say I'm happy to put my money where my mouth is :)
I’d agree with this. We put all the shopping away and then wash hands and open the post and wash hands.
ok.
We disinfect non-porous packaging before storage. Wash fruit / veg in water as we would in any case. As noted ingesting soap / disinfectant can make you ill.
Why? Because direct contact is the most common form of transmission (apparently) rather than airbourne so we try and clean anything that comes into our house while COVID19 is prevalent, as well as washing hands thoroughly after coming home and wiping down external door handle periodically with disinfectant.
I’d rather my wife does not die - I don’t need to explain my full families health position to a public forum. But we’d rather be than safe than dead
(I’m amazed how the supermarket staff in that enclosed space don’t social distance, often standing within inches of each other chatting, don’t wear any face covering - but they are the ones that stay longest in the supermarket and are stacking the shelves with stuff we then take home).
Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 23rd May 2020 at 16:33. Reason: Extra bit
I just hope when all this is over that guys in particular remember the importance of washing their hands after answering a call of nature. It isn’t somehow optional because you’ve “only” taken a leak. A woman friend and colleague has also told me more than once that some women in our workplace aren’t especially scrupulous about washing their hands after a toilet break, either. It isn’t just Covid-19 we can catch from those around us.
We also do this. To be honest it's no real hardship. For how long we do though is to be seen.
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Is there such a thing as antiviral wipes? Anti bacterial wipes are not the same thing.
I never used to, but the Mrs has brow beaten me...
Now carry one of these in the van... spray it as soon as it’s in the van, and also even spray some materials when I collect....!
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We wipe down all shopping with wipes. Unimportant looking post is left a few days too, anything else is opened and dealt with and then hands washed.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Same here, although I do wonder whether it is viable longer term, assuming no vaccine is developed...and I yes, how does and anti-bac wipe/gel work against a virus?
Maybe I’ll be flamed but I do nothing different
I go to work every day - wash my hands when I visit the toilet
, when I get to work and when I get home and before I prep or eat my food
Am I wrong?
Not at all, particularly with the current virus rate in the south east. You are doing the one thing that has the biggest effect at reducing transmission...washing your hands.
Everybody's situation is different. There are a lot of people on TZ who consider themselves in the at risk category and have a different risk tolerance accordingly.
No. There are many millions of us all doing just the same as you.
We are out of lockdown in Cyprus
Still use 4/1 alcohol/ water spray to all shopping
Today no covid 19 incidents reported
We open post, parcels shopping bags and then wash our hands.
I may be wrong, but I seem to recollect reading something where all these domestic disinfectants and bacterial wipes need contact time for them to work. A simple spray and wipe has limited effect.
As I say I could be wrong?
B
I guess truth is nobody knows. I wipe down items that we bring in from supermarket. More to comfort ourselves than anything scientific.
We do quarantine parcels and letters before bringing in to the house.
The common quoted advice is that there is no evidence virus can be transmitted on the packaging...i interpret that as there is no evidence that it can't either! If an amazon deliver driver has the virus and sneezes on the parcel 5 mins before delivering it to me and I touch it...well, I wouldn't want to take that risk. Hand washing aside.
We can only but try to mitigate risk I guess...the rest is out of our hands.
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Personally I have been wiping everything I bring in from Tesco with a cloth dampened by a cleaning spray or a surface wipe, except for non-perishable items which in some cases I just leave in the shopping bag for 24 hours or more. I may stop doing that in a couple of weeks when the risk of bringing in an infectious dose will, I hope, be very slight.
I unwrap what can be, eg red peppers in a bag, anything else is wiped down with surgical spirit. Partner is vulnerable to pneumonia after chemo some years ago so why take a chance for 5 minutes of faff.
Great and interesting thread please keep studying and researching and giving us the good information.It good to have some better news after a particularly bad week with several close family friends dying suddenly (non Corona related) other family issues and relationship problems
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SWMBO does this and it so bl**dy irritating! She does nothing but moan it's taking an hour to put the shopping away and we end up with a couple of bag fulls in the spare room in quarantine :-( Mail has to sit on the floor in the hall for three days. Drives me mad!!!
IMHO total rubbish!
What’s with motorists wearing masks when there’s nobody else in the vehicle?
People cannot think with any logic or reason.
If I was feeling generous I might suggest that they put them on before leaving home to ensure they don't forget them at the end of their journey.
We don't disinfect shopping or post - Seems OTT to me, but what you do in your own home is up to you.
I was going to say if you've been out and bought the shopping your risk was probably greater there, but I assume the OP and others disinfecting shopping are getting it delivered?
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Nothing has changed in my house, although i'm happy to use hand sanitiser when out with Mrs D as she suffers from anxiety and it makes her feel better if I do.
I think it may be that they are usually on their way home from somewhere, shopping for instance, and dont want to inadvertently touch their face while driving.
I'm not one of them, haven't worn a mask at all, but for someone who has decided mask wearing is necessary this makes sense for them.
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Bit of alcohol gel on hands once the shopping's in the boot, unload it all at home then wash hands, and that's about it.
Post gets opened straight away, outer packaging thrown/recycled, then wash hands.
I don't have time for sterilising individual items or the whole shop. I think common sense can be applied in most cases and unless you're in one of the vulnerable groups, the paranoia isn't helpful.
I went to the supermarket last week to see one person wearing his mask on his chin like a beard net and one person with a mask tied around his neck.
There's a simple explanation to all of this. Remember what George Carlin said....
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of them are stupider than that."
Pre-virus we didn't have that visible clue when we walked past people in the street.
Last edited by Christian; 24th May 2020 at 11:08.
I see loads of motorists with masks on in empty vehicles, mostly Uber and delivery drivers. It makes perfect sense to me why they would do this.
This may be helpful - from a cardiologist.
"COVID-19 Update: as we start to leave our cocoons. The purpose of this post is to provide a perspective on the intense but expected anxiety so many people are experiencing as they prepare to leave the shelter of their homes. My opinions are not those of my employers and are not meant to invalidate anyone else’s – they simply are my perspective on managing risk.
In March, we did not know much about COVID-19 other than the incredibly scary news reports from overrun hospitals in China, Italy, and other parts of Europe. The media was filled with scary pictures of chest CT scans, personal stories of people who decompensated quickly with shortness of breath, overwhelmed health care systems, and deaths. We heard confusing and widely varying estimates for risk of getting infected and of dying – some estimates were quite high.
Key point #1: The COVID-19 we are facing now is the same disease it was 2 months ago. The “shelter at home” orders were the right step from a public health standpoint to make sure we flattened the curve and didn’t overrun the health care system which would have led to excess preventable deaths. It also bought us time to learn about the disease’s dynamics, preventive measures, and best treatment strategies – and we did. For hospitalized patients, we have learned to avoid early intubation, to use prone ventilation, and that remdesivir probably reduces time to recovery. We have learned how to best use and preserve PPE. We also know that several therapies suggested early on probably don’t do much and may even cause harm (ie, azithromycin, chloroquine, hydroxychloroquine, lopinavir/ritonavir). But all of our social distancing did not change the disease. Take home: We flattened the curve and with it our economy and psyches, but the disease itself is still here.
Key point #2: COVID-19 is more deadly than seasonal influenza (about 5-10x so), but not nearly as deadly as Ebola, Rabies, or Marburg Hemorrhagic Fever where 25-90% of people who get infected die. COVID-19’s case fatality rate is about 0.8-1.5% overall, but much higher if you are 60-69 years old (3-4%), 70-79 years old (7-9%), and especially so if you are over 80 years old (CFR 13-17%). It is much lower if you are under 50 years old (<0.6%). The infection fatality rate is about half of these numbers. Take home: COVID-19 is dangerous, but the vast majority of people who get it, survive it. About 15% of people get very ill and could stay ill for a long time. We are going to be dealing with it for a long time.
Key point #3: SARS-CoV-2 is very contagious, but not as contagious as Measles, Mumps, or even certain strains of pandemic Influenza. It is spread by respiratory droplets and aerosols, not food and incidental contact. Take home: social distancing, not touching our faces, and good hand hygiene are the key weapons to stop the spread. Masks could make a difference, too, especially in public places where people congregate. Incidental contact is not really an issue, nor is food.
What does this all mean as we return to work and public life? COVID-19 is not going away anytime soon. It may not go away for a year or two and may not be eradicated for many years, so we have to learn to live with it and do what we can to mitigate (reduce) risk. That means being willing to accept *some* level of risk to live our lives as we desire. I can’t decide that level of risk for you – only you can make that decision. There are few certainties in pandemic risk management other than that fact that some people will die, some people in low risk groups will die, and some people in high risk groups will survive. It’s about probability.
Here is some guidance – my point of view, not judging yours:
1. People over 60 years old are at higher risk of severe disease – people over 70 years old, even more so. They should be willing to tolerate less risk than people under 50 years old and should be extra careful. Some chronic diseases like heart disease and COPD increase risk, but it is not clear if other diseases like obesity, asthma, immune disorders, etc. increase risk appreciably. It looks like asthma and inflammatory bowel disease might not be as high risk as we thought, but we are not sure - their risks might be too small to pick up, or they might be associated with things that put them at higher risk.
People over 60-70 years old probably should continue to be very vigilant about limiting exposures if they can. However, not seeing family – especially children and grandchildren – can take a serious emotional toll, so I encourage people to be creative and flexible. For example, in-person visits are not crazy – consider one, especially if you have been isolated and have no symptoms. They are especially safe in the early days after restrictions are lifted in places like Madison or parts of major cities where there is very little community transmission. Families can decide how much mingling they are comfortable with - if they want to hug and eat together, distance together with masks, or just stay apart and continue using video-conferencing and the telephone to stay in contact. If you choose to intermingle, remember to practice good hand hygiene, don’t share plates/forks/spoons/cups, don’t share towels, and don’t sleep together.
2. Social distancing, not touching your face, and washing/sanitizing your hands are the key prevention interventions. They are vastly more important than anything else you do. Wearing a fabric mask is a good idea in crowded public place like a grocery store or public transportation, but you absolutely must distance, practice good hand hygiene, and don’t touch your face. Wearing gloves is not helpful (the virus does not get in through the skin) and may increase your risk because you likely won’t washing or sanitize your hands when they are on, you will drop things, and touch your face.
3. Be a good citizen. If you think you might be sick, stay home. If you are going to cough or sneeze, turn away from people, block it, and sanitize your hands immediately after.
4. Use common sense. Dial down the anxiety. If you are out taking a walk and someone walks past you, that brief (near) contact is so low risk that it doesn’t make sense to get scared. Smile at them as they approach, turn your head away as they pass, move on. The smile will be more therapeutic than the passing is dangerous. Similarly, if someone bumps into you at the grocery store or reaches past you for a loaf of bread, don’t stress - it is a very low risk encounter, also - as long as they didn’t cough or sneeze in your face (one reason we wear cloth masks in public!).
5. Use common sense, part II. Dial down the obsessiveness. There really is no reason to go crazy sanitizing items that come into your house from outside, like groceries and packages. For it to be a risk, the delivery person would need to be infectious, cough or sneeze some droplets on your package, you touch the droplet, then touch your face, and then it invades your respiratory epithelium. There would need to be enough viral load and the virions would need to survive long enough for you to get infected. It could happen, but it’s pretty unlikely. If you want to have a staging station for 1-2 days before you put things away, sure, no problem. You also can simply wipe things off before they come in to your house - that is fine is fine too. For an isolated family, it makes no sense to obsessively wipe down every surface every day (or several times a day). Door knobs, toilet handles, commonly trafficked light switches could get a wipe off each day, but it takes a lot of time and emotional energy to do all those things and they have marginal benefits. We don’t need to create a sterile operating room-like living space. Compared to keeping your hands out of your mouth, good hand hygiene, and cleaning food before serving it, these behaviors might be more maladaptive than protective.
6. There are few absolutes, so please get comfortable accepting some calculated risks, otherwise you might be isolating yourself for a really, really long time. Figure out how you can be in public and interact with people without fear.
We are social creatures. We need each other. We will survive with and because of each other. Social distancing just means that we connect differently. Being afraid makes us contract and shut each other out. I hope we can fill that space created by fear and contraction with meaningful connections and learn to be less afraid of each of other."
Thank you Ryan, that is helpful
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