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Thread: Navigator prototype

  1. #51
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    Beautiful, simply beautiful!

  2. #52
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    Near perfection (No hooked seven?). Black dial for me, please, sir. The strap and deployant look great. I won't be wearing mine on a NATO so happy with the lug hole location (assuming of course that I'm lucky enough to secure one of the limited edition first run).

    These sound as though they'll all be gone in the blink of an eye. Do you have an alternative movement lined up for the second run, Eddie?
    Last edited by lughugger; 24th May 2020 at 07:50.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oroccoco View Post
    Mm, very nice. I do agree on the lug hole placement. It's a bit tight on the Everest, making it not ideal for a thicker single-pass strap, leather Zulu etc., and this looks similar. Just 1mm further out and down would increase the versatility and allow for appropriate military-style options.

    I'll take a black one - tough to think I might be waiting a year!
    The lugs are much longer than on the Everest so I am not seeing an issue.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by lughugger View Post
    Near perfection (No hooked seven?). Black dial for me, please, sir. The strap and deployant look great. I won't be wearing mine on a NATO so happy with the lug hole location (assuming of course that I'm lucky enough to secure one of the limited edition first run).

    These sound as though they'll all be gone in the blink of an eye. Do you have an alternative movement lined up for the second run, Eddie?
    In regards to the no hooked 7 I would say that this is an homage to the original IWC MK11 and not an exact copy is why there should be some subtle differences. As far as an alternative movement I know Eddie posted earlier that a new batch of Selitta movements would take around a year and that the ETA's were a no go because of the lack of availability who we can blame Swatch Group for. All that being said it will be a run at getting an order right in once available at the store.

    I think we can take a que from how fast the black dialed Everest sold out in April, 20 minutes and all were sold.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by kneadking View Post
    The lugs are much longer than on the Everest so I am not seeing an issue.
    Distance between spring bar and case looks similar to me.
    Admittedly it's quite a thick strap. Anyway, idle speculation, doubtless TF Inc know what they're doing.
    Last edited by Oroccoco; 24th May 2020 at 10:28.

  6. #56
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    That's perfect Eddie.

    Congratulations you have produced some fine watches over the years with some outstanding pieces recently.

    I will certainly want to add one to my collection.

  7. #57
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    Are you happy with the centre second hand Eddie? It perhaps could be a little finer, sleeker.

  8. #58
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    They look amazing. Can't decide which version I like more. I will probably end up buying both.

  9. #59
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    Black dial is epic. Great work, nothing close to the SMiths range at this price point IMHO

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oroccoco View Post
    Distance between spring bar and case looks similar to me.
    Admittedly it's quite a thick strap. Anyway, idle speculation, doubtless TF Inc know what they're doing.

    Looks can be deceiving. Changing springbars from 1.8mm on both my Damasko DA 37 and 40mm Everest to 1.6mm and 1.5mm respectively meant that straps that were a very tight fit pull through the gap nicely now. It doesn't take much.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by magirus View Post
    Looks can be deceiving. Changing springbars from 1.8mm on both my Damasko DA 37 and 40mm Everest to 1.6mm and 1.5mm respectively meant that straps that were a very tight fit pull through the gap nicely now. It doesn't take much.
    Great point. Thanks for the info.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pagan View Post
    Is the lug hole positioning matched to the original, out of curiosity?


    This is the original.



    This is the Navigator.

    On the original the solid bars are right at the edge. But don't get too excited.



    This is Eddie's example.

    You very rarely see a Mk11 on a two-piece leather strap probably due to the solid bars but if you look at Eddie's example you will see quite a large gap between the case and the strap. Probably too much gap.



    Much smaller gap in the Navigator.

    What I propose is not so much to pull the holes back.. but only half a millimetre down... that will increase clearance plus keep (or even improve) the optics.
    Last edited by abraxas; 24th May 2020 at 17:32.
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  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    I'm probably in a minority of one, but it to me it needs a longer tail on the seconds hand. Otherwise, crack on!

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geralt View Post
    I'm probably in a minority of one, but it to me it needs a longer tail on the seconds hand.
    I think you might be right...

    Quote Originally Posted by size11s View Post
    Are you happy with the centre second hand Eddie? It perhaps could be a little finer, sleeker.
    It could be, but I don’t find it offensively thick.

    What I am surprised nobody has called out is that the 5 minute hash marks are the same thickness/ weight as the minute ones. Whereas on Eddie’s vintage example, there are two weights (three If you count the 12-3-6-9)


  15. #65
    Can we register interest or is it strictly first come first served?

    (Maybe the first 50 could be allocated to regular forum users?)


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  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billyloves2boogie View Post
    Can we register interest or is it strictly first come first served?

    (Maybe the first 50 could be allocated to regular forum users?)


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
    Sadly I've already asked about pre-orders and Eddie doesn't do them.

    He could put some back for forum guys but I would imagine it's a first come first serve.

    I think one way he could do it would be if you were to register for one, you then get a number. Eddie would then pick 300 from random and you get a link for payment.

    Overall there are going to be a lot of disappointed people and I think I'll be one of them especially when it'll take another 12 months to restock.

    Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

  17. #67
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    Navigator prototype

    I think Eddie’’s way of selling watches is completely fair, first come first served. No preferences for anyone means a level playing field. Certainly refreshing compared to the nonsense that has been going on with certain well known brands requiring deposits, special waiting lists and only being able to buy if you’ve bought from them before etc. What a load of nonsense!!


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  18. #68
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    There is also the issue of the server which hosts Eddie's website crashing when the watch is released.

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  19. #69
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    My Mk11 next to a Smiths Military Prs-29b (now long gone). I got the Mk11 in the early '80s for 25 sobs, wore it for a couple of days, and it has been sitting in a safe ever since. I prefer to wear homages so I don't have to worry. I had more pics but I cannot find them on photobucket.
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  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGent View Post
    I think Eddie’’s way of selling watches is completely fair, first come first served. No preferences for anyone means a level playing field. Certainly refreshing compared to the nonsense that has been going on with certain well known brands requiring deposits, special waiting lists and only being able to buy if you’ve bought from them before etc. What a load of nonsense!!
    Put far better than I could have...
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by redhed18 View Post
    I think you might be right...



    It could be, but I don’t find it offensively thick.

    What I am surprised nobody has called out is that the 5 minute hash marks are the same thickness/ weight as the minute ones. Whereas on Eddie’s vintage example, there are two weights (three If you count the 12-3-6-9)

    Yes, I know it's being picky with what is going to be a great watch, but I agree with all of the above. I think the 5 min hash markers are a bit thicker than the 1 min ones on the prototype but the differential isn't as pronounced as the original. It's difficult to say exactly what it is with the centre seconds hand but it just doesn't look as refined/balanced as the original, that is a thing of great beauty!

  22. #72
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    Given the overwhelmingly positive reaction to these prototypes, I wonder if some of the concerns expressed on the other thread regarding the boobies/non boobies logo have fallen away. Mine have.

    I have a Mark XV which I wear a lot, so am primarily interested in the white/cream version. I was hoping it would be a brighter white, like the white version of the Mark XV which looked very sharp, but I suppose a cream dial is more in keeping with the Timefactors Smiths 'house white'.

  23. #73
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    Agreed on the 5-minute hash marks (could be more pronounced), minute hand (could be a bit shorter), second hand (could be a bit thinner) and brushing on the caseback (looks a bit rough compared to PRS-29).

    It's funny how much discussion there was around the boobies logo vs. a more simple one but it looks like the prototype put it all to bed.

    Looking forward to the final product later this year.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by alx.lago View Post
    It's funny how much discussion there was around the boobies logo vs. a more simple one but it looks like the prototype put it all to bed.
    I would prefer a simpler, straight (but smaller) classic SMITHS but only in light of what could possibly/maybe/hopefully come further down the line with the GS De Luxe which would then need to have a very similar dial layout. I am aware that I am in a massive minority and think the dial looks great with the exception of the redundant circled L that I could do without.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shubs View Post
    ........ am primarily interested in the white/cream version. I was hoping it would be a brighter white, like the white version of the Mark XV which looked very sharp, .............


    As it happens I totally agree with you. Very sharp and as rare as hen's teeth.



    PS And just look at that seconds hand!
    Last edited by abraxas; Yesterday at 12:29.
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  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by size11s View Post
    .......... It's difficult to say exactly what it is with the centre seconds hand but it just doesn't look as refined/balanced as the original, that is a thing of great beauty!


    I totally I agree with you. The seconds of the Navigator would need to be a tad thinner, and the shaft of the counter-balance a tad longer.

    Compare the two sec-hands above... the taper of the JLC vs the needle of the IWC... both masterful in their own way.
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  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by alx.lago View Post
    It's funny how much discussion there was around the boobies logo vs. a more simple one but it looks like the prototype put it all to bed.
    I'm one of those. Yes, the boobies could be gone, the 5-min markers could be thicker, the seconds hand could be thinner, and the sun could shine brighter on some days. After seeing the prototype I shut my trap. None of this is needed. Its a thing of beauty.
    Last edited by TomasC; Yesterday at 12:21.

  28. #78
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    Thank you for the great image Abraxas, how amazing are they both, simply stunning. Can I also point out that neither has anything between the centre pinion and 6 and don't look unbalanced at all (cough)

  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by size11s View Post
    ....... Can I also point out that neither has anything between the centre pinion and 6 and don't look unbalanced at all (cough)
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  30. #80
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    First of all, I must say how impressed I am with the prototype. Definitely going to try and buy one when they are available. Just thought I’d second what a fellow mention earlier in the thread re the minute hand. The minute hand does look different to the original but I think it’s nothing to do with the actual length (which as Eddie states is the same), more to do with how it tapers at the end. This from certain angles can I would think give the impression that it is in fact shorter. Pointless conjecture maybe, but it’s often the finest detail that can make or break it for some.


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  31. #81
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    Strange to say but think that cream dial is going to save me some money. Been looking at some more expensive pieces but now I've seen this I know where my money is headed now.

    Both are beautiful watches. Lovely work Eddie!

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post


    As it happens I totally agree with you. Very sharp and as rare as hen's teeth.



    PS And just look at that seconds hand!
    Lovely as it is, I don't like pure white dials.

    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  33. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Ogdensnut View Post
    The minute hand does look different to the original but I think it’s nothing to do with the actual length (which as Eddie states is the same), more to do with how it tapers at the end.
    I was thinking about saying the same thing, but don't want to be overly nitpicky when it's really hard to tell from the photos. Plus I'm probably going to buy one anyway (if I can get one!). But with some of the other photos posted more recently, it looks like the original tapers into more of a needlepoint (a bit like on a Sinn, but more curvy), whereas the Smiths seems to be more of a normal sword-tip taper. Plus it also looks like the minute hand may be slightly fatter than the IWC, but that could just be because of the lighting & angle of the photo.

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    Lovely as it is, I don't like pure white dials.

    Eddie
    I would have to agree with the Master. I am not really a cream or white dial kind of guy, much prefer a nice black dial. I do have one watch that is a champagne color made by Pontiac that I like.

  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by size11s View Post
    with the exception of the redundant circled L that I could do without.
    I guess it's a matter of balancing the negative space at the bottom part of the dial. There should be either an L or a pheon.

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by hafle View Post

    They don't look identical from the photos, Minute hand looks too long, second hand too short.

    The Smiths looks to have slightly thicker minute and second hands, with a shorter tail on the seconds hand?
    Last edited by Onelasttime; Yesterday at 13:52.

  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by alx.lago View Post
    I guess it's a matter of balancing the negative space at the bottom part of the dial. There should be either an L or a pheon.
    I refer you to Abraxas's image in post number 76, I don't think either of the original dials shown there look unbalanced at all.

  38. #88
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    Both versions are looking lovely. I will definitely be getting the black dial, but that cream dial also looks gorgeous.

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    [img]



    What I propose is not so much to pull the holes back.. but only half a millimetre down... that will increase clearance plus keep (or even improve) the optics.
    I disagree. I think the lug hole position is perfect where it is. I've seen many high end watches with a higher hole, and it allows the strap to follow the top of the lugs which looks very classy, kinda like a solid fit strap.

    The only thing I don't like is the bezel. I thought this would have a more Mark bezel or at least one similar to the PRS-29. A Flat-top bezel gives it a very masculine edge to it that I love. I find the plainer no flat bezel like the Explorer out of character for a military watch. It's fine for an Explorer type watch, but not fine on a miltary watch IMO.
    Last edited by grizzlymambo; Yesterday at 18:11.

  40. #90
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grizzlymambo View Post
    ..............

    The only thing I don't like is the bezel. I thought this would have a more Mark bezel or at least one similar to the PRS-29. A Flat-top bezel gives it a very masculine edge to it that I love. I find the plainer no flat bezel like the Explorer out of character for a military watch. It's fine for an Explorer type watch, but not fine on a miltary watch IMO.
    I am trying to understand what you are saying... and I think that I agree with you.



    The original bezel has 3 sides. Horizontal top, the side at an angle, and the vertical base.



    The Navigator appears to have only 2 sides. The vertical base, and the angular side going all the way up to the crystal.

    Is this what you are referring to?
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  41. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    The original bezel has 3 sides. Horizontal top, the side at an angle, and the vertical base.
    +1 with you (both I think?) on this one. I commented on this in the other thread. I really like the chunky look that the 3-side bezel gives it. It makes it look stronger, less delicate. Didn't notice this was missing from the prototype until you pointed out that side view. The front-on view looks like it has the flat front, but that might just be reflections in the crystal.

    Probably too late to change it now though. I'd rather than the bezel as-is than have something go wrong in manufacturing by trying to change this at the last minute. But if it's an easy change I'd vote in favour of doing it.

  42. #92
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robt View Post
    .....

    Didn't notice this was missing from the prototype until you pointed out that side view. The front-on view looks like it has the flat front, but that might just be reflections in the crystal.

    ....
    I did not notice its absence either until grizzly pointed it out. I assumed it was there (as it was copied from an original) but now I see that what I was looking at was "the milkiness" of the sapphire. Now let's see what the boss will say about all this.
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