Just wondering what kind of accuracy can be expected from a well serviced moonwatch? Recent model <10 years old.
Maybe I am spoilt by the planet ocean 8900 movement which is scarily accurate.
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Bought a new Moonwatch last year. Initially it gained 8 seconds a day, which I wasn’t thrilled with. After some weeks it settled down to a rate of gaining just a few seconds per day. Also had a 2016 FOIS which also gained just a couple of seconds per day.
My Speedmaster was regulated to couple of seconds per day. Pretty impressive for non chronometer movement.
Am I being far too fussy to be bothered by -15 secs per day?Originally Posted by Normunds
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I've got seven, they vary between +1 and +12, most under +6.
I believe that -15spd falls inside specs, but it can certainly perform better.
I think between 0 and +6 is a fair expectation if the watch is running well. I regulate hand- wound watches on the basis of winding twice/ day (morning and night) and storing dial- up overnight, that helps any watch to perform consistently because it spends a third if its time running in one position.
Running the chrono will also have an effect, which is more pronounced if the watch hasn’t been serviced for a few years. When the chrono is running there is always a drop in amplitude caused by the friction of the chronograph runner, this will drop amplitude by between 10 and 30 degrees. This may be enough to drag the amplitude down to level where the rate is significantly affected. On a freshly serviced example the difference in rate between running the chono or not should be negligible, amplitude will typically drop from around 295 to 285 degrees which is OK. On a watch that’s not running so well, with an amplitude of around 260 dropping to 230 degrees, the difference in rate will be significant. Generally, this applies to all chronograph movements. but the difference in rate is likely to be more pronounced on an old watch with more wear in the movement.
I think a hand- wound Speedy should be bought because you like it enough. The acrylic crystal will always need repolishing to keep it looking sharp, but that’s an easy job once you've learned how. Possibly the worst drawback is the hand- winding, the crown is fiddly to get a grip on, but if you like the watch you live with that. I don’t think I’d own a moonwatch as an only watch but as part of a collection they’re great, a true design classic.
Mine is a Dec 2014 I bought new. It didn't run particularly well straight away but within Omega spec (which I think is -1 to +11 seconds). Omega regulated it for me and now it runs at a consistent +3 when wound once a day or +1 when wound twice a day. That is more than good enough for me on a non Chronometer movement.
Interesting to read your comments walkerwek1958.
To be honest, I wind my manual-wind watches once every day.
With the Speedmaster, it's once every two days, because its power reserve lasts that long.
I always set my mechanicals a couple of minutes fast anyway. I have checked all my watches in the past, not against the atomic clock, but just to see if it's still running at +2 mins. The Speedmaster doesn't need adjustment, so that's good enough for me.
I set my Speedy about a minute fast if it has stopped (not a daily wearer), wind it fully, set it one minute ahead & push the crown in when the second hand is at zero. Near enough for me.
I would expect +5 to +8 on a newish speedmaster.At -15 I would be tempted to regulate it.
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I have four - three 1861s and an 863 - and timekeeping varies from +2 to +15 seconds per day.
The +15 seconds a day watch was serviced in 2016 and has consistently run that fast so it was poorly regulated when serviced. I used an out of town watchmaker and since I don't wear the watch daily I didn't bother with sending it back to re-regulate it. Last time I'll use that guy though.
Last edited by Saxon007; 16th May 2020 at 14:12.
Mine (a 1997 861, serviced 3 or 4 years ago) keeps good time, but I don't worry if it's a minute out over a day as I rarely wear it for more than two or three.
That said, when I have worn it over a number of days, it seems to be right (to the minute).
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Not really. Omega will do a free regulation if it’s over 11s per day.
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-15 is not good for a Speedy, as others have said the spec is -1 to +11. I’d be annoyed too. Sure it can be regulated to much better.
I have four years old Moonwatch and it was serviced a month ago in authorized service center because it suddenly stopped.
According to Toolwatch app my watch is now consistently losing about -4sec/24h. Overnight storing positions dont make it gain any seconds. If I keep it crown up for night (8-10 hours) it doesn’t lose any seconds but it doesn’t gain either. In all other positions it loses more seconds. The worst positions are crown down and dial down when it loses about 6seconds during night. I wind it every morning.
First I was not happy with its timing and considered regulating it. But at the moment it doesn’t bother me much (maybe a little still), because:
A) I am in home quarantine working from home and I am not in a hurry anywhere.
B) I think it is part of ”Speedy philosophy” to be not so accurate - or in better words accuracy to seconds is not essential in timekeeping. It is 50 years old technology after all. I think that is why the seconds subdial is so small and difficult to read and in LE versions that subdial is usually decorated with medals, dogs or Aldrins bottom to make more harder to follow. I also think the seconds subdial is in speedy only because one can see it is working, not for setting time up to second precise and that is why it doesn’t hack either (I know hacking is possible, but I dont do it because it feels violent).
C) I am having my 50th birthday later this year and I don’t mind if time runs a bit slower at the moment.
When things get back to normal, I might ask to regulate my Moonwatch, or maybe not. It is part of my four watch rotation.
Last edited by Qristian; 17th May 2020 at 12:34.
Just checked mine on a Timeograph it runs between +1sec 0sec and -3sec/day depending on position.
About -0.3spm
Thanks for the replies guys, very helpful. It's due a service anyway so I'll look into that once the restrictions are lifted
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I’d guess it won’t be long before Omega update the movement; the 1861 has a great history, but Omega technology has left it behind. Shame in some ways, but it’s overdue.
Later this year? Alongside the, ultra costly, 321.
There’s no particular reason for them to update the 1861 movement, is there? It’s functional, easily serviced and well capable of COSC accuracy. Updating the movement would inevitably mean a substantial price hike and a shift away from relatively affordable to way beyond the means of most.
I think 3861 will replace 1861 during this year. It is already used in two models that are named Speedmaster Professional even though that particular caliber it is not NASA qualified, if that matters.
I guess 1861 Speedmaster is a bit of a problem to Omega because they can’t justify the price rise to the ”luxury” level of another models if they keep it unchanged. They already made a larger box and added screws to bracelet links to justify a price hike last time. They can’t make any bigger box anymore, hopefully.
Last edited by Qristian; 17th May 2020 at 13:04.
Yes, I have heard that they will replace the 1861 with the Master Chronometer rated 3861 later this year. One other benefit is that the 3862 has hacking seconds as well.
No doubt there will be a price jump as well!
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For those who don’t know, there’s a little trick to use on a non- hacking watch to stop the seconds hand.
Put the crown in handset, then turn the hands anti- clockwise slowly. This will stop the movement from running.
There are two provisos:
In most cases the watch needs to be in a low state of wind, with very little torque going through the movement. If its stopped give it the minimum wind to just set it running.
Secondly, the cannon pinion needs to be reasonably tight. This can be a problem on old watches that have had the hands set many times, think of the cannon pinion like a clutch. If its worn the torque of the movement overcome the friction and holding the canon pinion won’t stop the watch. In some cases, if the canon pinions tight enough, the watch can be stopped this way even if its fully wound.
This trick for hacking doesn’t do any harm. Sometimes it won’t work, that’s not an indication that the watch is faulty, so don’t start fretting if you try this and it isn’t successful.
As for replacing the 1861, I would be surprised. It could be argued that the Speedy Moonwatch, with hand- winding and acrylic crystal, is an anachronism anyway, so why change it? The movement could be upgraded by designing a silicon hairspring and poising the balance to a higher standard (they’re pretty good anyway) and that would improve precision, but you can’t get away from the effects of hand- winding, the performance will always be influenced by this as I discussed earlier.
Despite my affection for the Moonwatch I don’t own one, they wear slightly too big for my taste so I have to make do with the Speedy Reduced 3510.50, at around 38.5mm it suits me better. I know the DD modular chrono gets criticised, but in my experience they’re excellent. A properly serviced example will only lose around 5 degrees of amplitude with the chrono running, and the base movement (Omega 1129 aka ETA 2892) is an excellent performer.
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 17th May 2020 at 19:42.
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