An idea for the forum - Thread per watch?

[Griswold]

Floating an idea to the community and asking for feedback isn’t arrogant. Arrogant would be stating we should have it and not asking for feedback.

Maybe that’s why you are, as you don’t have a grasp of the meaning, ‘mate’.


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If it was your first day in a new job, how do you think it would be received if you were to float an idea as to how things could be organised, (with a specific example), without taking the time to find out how things worked and, best of all, why?

[Mick P]

If it was your first day in a new job, how do you think it would be received if you were to float an idea as to how things could be organised, (with a specific example), without taking the time to find out how things worked and, best of all, why?

There is, however, quite a bit of support for the idea, so again it would do no harm to give it a try. If it succeeds then fine and if it fails it fails and no harm is being done either way.

[Griswold]

There is, however, quite a bit of support for the idea, so again it would do no harm to give it a try. If it succeeds then fine and if it fails it fails and no harm is being done either way.

Whooooooosh!

[rfrazier]

"The policy of letting a hundred flowers bloom and a hundred schools of thought contend is designed to promote the flourishing of the arts and the progress of science" -- Mao

Good to see proponents of a "market place" of ideas. :)

Best wishes,
Bob

[RAFF]

If it was your first day in a new job, how do you think it would be received if you were to float an idea as to how things could be organised, (with a specific example), without taking the time to find out how things worked and, best of all, why?

The analogy is flawed. This isn’t the work place, and if I saw something glaring I’d say something. But then, my job is to help improve things.


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[Kingstepper]

Sometimes outsiders can (usefully) see things differently and not be blinkered by the way things have always been done.

[RAFF]

Sometimes outsiders can (usefully) see things differently and not be blinkered by the way things have always been done.

Very good point and very true.


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[Griswold]

The analogy is flawed. This isn’t the work place, and if I saw something glaring I’d say something. But then, my job is to help improve things.


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The analogy is NOT flawed. I know this from personal experience in the workplace. And if your job really is to improve things how can you do this without first understanding how things are currently done and why?

[Saint-Just]

Sometimes outsiders can (usefully) see things differently and not be blinkered by the way things have always been done.

Absolutely, but only after they experience how things work, before suggesting improvements.

[Griswold]

Sometimes outsiders can (usefully) see things differently and not be blinkered by the way things have always been done.

Indeed, once they see how things are currently done and why. But on their first day? Blindly?

[RAFF]

The analogy is NOT flawed. I know this from personal experience in the workplace. And if your job really is to improve things how can you do this without first understanding how things are currently done and why?

I said if I saw something glaring. Usually I'd spend a couple of weeks just observing. However, when you go into company after company to make the same improvements, you sometimes see glaring issues straight away. I improve IT service delivery. If I see something straight off that impacts customer service in a negative way, I'm not going to sit on it.

[Mick P]

Indeed, once they see how things are currently done and why. But on their first day? Blindly?

I don't see what the objection is. It is not a suggestion that needs years of experience, to be frank, it is plain common sense. I would think 99% of the internet population could easily come up with the same suggestion within their first day of coming into the forum. It's hardly rocket science.

[RAFF]

I don't see what the objection is. It is not a suggestion that needs years of experience, to be frank, it is plain common sense. I would think 99% of the internet population could easily come up with the same suggestion within their first day of coming into the forum. It's hardly rocket science.

Bingo.


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[Saint-Just]

Bingo.

No, not Bingo. Because any idiot can come up with that suggestion is precisely why you shouldn't spout it out on arrival. What allows you to do that in some cases is because of your professional expertise. you've seen it before and you know their way doesn't work whereas your way does.

This is not exactly the case here, is it?

[Griswold]

I said if I saw something glaring. Usually I'd spend a couple of weeks just observing. However, when you go into company after company to make the same improvements, you sometimes see glaring issues straight away. I improve IT service delivery. If I see something straight off that impacts customer service in a negative way, I'm not going to sit on it.

As someone who was a senior part of an internal project to examine all business processes, (in a high street bank), and determine which processes were working efficiently and profitably, which required modifying to do so, (and how), and which were redundant and provided no benefit whatsoever so should be stopped, I can tell you that 'observing for a couple of weeks', as you put it, then telling people what they should do is no way to achieve a successful result. Doing it your way would simply be replacing someone else's way of working with your own without defined measures, which would be somewhat silly to put it mildly!

[Griswold]

I don't see what the objection is. It is not a suggestion that needs years of experience, to be frank, it is plain common sense. I would think 99% of the internet population could easily come up with the same suggestion within their first day of coming into the forum. It's hardly rocket science.

As I posted earlier in a reply to yourself, Whooooooooooooooosh!

[RAFF]

As someone who was a senior part of an internal project to examine all business processes, (in a high street bank), and determine which processes were working efficiently and profitably, which required modifying to do so, (and how), and which were redundant and provided no benefit whatsoever so should be stopped, I can tell you that 'observing for a couple of weeks', as you put it, then telling people what they should do is no way to achieve a successful result. Doing it your way would simply be replacing someone else's way of working with your own without defined measures, which would be somewhat silly to put it mildly!

Ok, what you did there was only one aspect of what I do. I didn't say I told people what to do did I? If someone brings me in to fix a broken team / service due to someone else's cock ups, expecting me to evaluate the current state of affairs and suggesting / making changes is expected.

Process is just part of it. Sometimes there are no processes.

[Senninha]

Personally I like the idea.

I've never liked watchuseek, but I do like the ability to hop straight into the Grand Seiko section and specially look around there. Makes it much easier for finding specific info, or even interesting discussions and images on the specific watch of interest.

[RAFF]

No, not Bingo. Because any idiot can come up with that suggestion is precisely why you shouldn't spout it out on arrival. What allows you to do that in some cases is because of your professional expertise. you've seen it before and you know their way doesn't work whereas your way does.

This is not exactly the case here, is it?

Good point but there really is no harm in suggesting it. Other than upsetting the apple cart with some. However, many of that ‘some’ have no problem voicing their own opinions, regardless of who it bothers.


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[Onespeed]

I’m not making any comment about whether or not the proposal is a good or bad idea and ultimately this is for Eddie to decide, it s his playground. But if the forum doesn’t evolve (hearing out new ideas, adopting them where appropriate and taking advantage of new IT developments), then doesn’t it risk stagnating and ultimately dying out? Which is not what we all want.

And sometimes fresh eyes see things differently.

Just a thought.

[Saint-Just]

Good point but there really is no harm in suggesting it. Other than upsetting the apple cart with some. However, many of that ‘some’ have no problem voicing their own opinions, regardless of who it bothers.

There is no harm. But it is at best disrespectful to our host and our community, at worse it hides an agenda (the thread allowed him to go past the magic 50, but the goal was booby trapped).

[RAFF]

There is no harm. But it is at best disrespectful to our host and our community, at worse it hides an agenda (the thread allowed him to go past the magic 50, but the goal was booby trapped).

I don’t see that it is disrespectful. A bit eager or bold but not disrespectful.


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[Wallasey Runner]

Can I clarify, a thread per watch?

Does that mean if 50 people all own a Submariner, we need 50 separate threads - one per watch.

Did the OP mean one thread per watch model.

About as clear as a evening broadcast from Boris

[seabiscuit]

My idea for the forum is that the OP should just bugger off to WUS.

[Wallasey Runner]

My idea for the forum is that the OP should just bugger off to WUS.

+1

I wonder what his urgency to get to 50 posts was

[Griswold]

Ok, what you did there was only one aspect of what I do. I didn't say I told people what to do did I? If someone brings me in to fix a broken team / service due to someone else's cock ups, expecting me to evaluate the current state of affairs and suggesting / making changes is expected.

Process is just part of it. Sometimes there are no processes.

You didn't say it explicitly, no; but IMO it was certainly inferred. Oh, and as someone who worked in IT for over 40 years, I've never come across anything that didn't have a process - things don't just happen, (though they do evolve, often without structure and usually driven by managers/senior executives with limited experience/knowledge of the subject; which is frequently the root of the problem). Your expanded explanation of your process above is helpful, and an indication of why some of us feel the OP was somewhat premature in his 'suggestion' - though I suspect he may have had an ulterior motive, as others have also suggested.

[RAFF]

You didn't say it explicitly, no; but IMO it was certainly inferred. Oh, and as someone who worked in IT for over 40 years, I've never come across anything that didn't have a process - things don't just happen, (though they do evolve, often without structure and usually driven by managers/senior executives with limited experience/knowledge of the subject; which is frequently the root of the problem). Your expanded explanation of your process above is helpful, and an indication of why some of us feel the OP was somewhat premature in his 'suggestion' - though I suspect he may have had an ulterior motive, as others have also suggested.

No idea how I could have inferred that from anything I said but OK, you're entitled to your opinion. I've worked in companies where I've come in to manage a new team with no processes for anything. I've also managed teams that have been neglected and mismanaged for years. So there is a way of doing things but no process and it's chaos.

If you've never experienced this then you've worked at companies that already have their act together. Somewhere I'd like to go for a holiday. Any jobs going? :)

Maybe he does have an ulterior motive but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.

[seadog1408]

No idea how I could have inferred that from anything I said but OK, you're entitled to your opinion. I've worked in companies where I've come in to manage a new team with no processes for anything. I've also managed teams that have been neglected and mismanaged for years. So there is a way of doing things but no process and it's chaos.

If you've never experienced this then you've worked at companies that already have their act together. Somewhere I'd like to go for a holiday. Any jobs going? :)

Maybe he does have an ulterior motive but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.

So digitalseb has been brought in by the owner of the forum to manage its processes, thanks for clearing that up.

[Tetlee]

Can we have an "enthusiasts" thread for every watch? I'm feeling a bit left out.

[RAFF]

So digitalseb has been brought in by the owner of the forum to manage its processes, thanks for clearing that up.

What? Can’t really think of anything else to say.


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[FrontierGibberish]

I'm not that new to the forum, but I've been more of a lurker, just quietly enjoying it for years, than a poster (although that's changing). My feeling is leave it as it is. For the same reason an old oak desk is less efficient that a modern glass and stainless steel one. It's better, even if sometimes it doesn't do things as easily as you'd like.

[Neil.C]

Not a fan of the "idea" at all.

I have always liked the eclectic style of the forum which has proved immensely popular over the years and in my opinion it doesn't need regimentation a la WUS.

[Griswold]

No idea how I could have inferred that from anything I said but OK, you're entitled to your opinion. I've worked in companies where I've come in to manage a new team with no processes for anything. I've also managed teams that have been neglected and mismanaged for years. So there is a way of doing things but no process and it's chaos.

If you've never experienced this then you've worked at companies that already have their act together. Somewhere I'd like to go for a holiday. Any jobs going? :)

Maybe he does have an ulterior motive but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.

If they're doing something then there is a process or they wouldn't be doing anything. It may not be a documented process, it may be a chaotic process, but it is a process nevertheless. And yes, I've worked in, and rectified, such situations in companies as you describe - usually it's developed through a process of evolution and mismanagement; the staff themselves are often aware of what's wrong and what needs to be done to rectify things - as every good consultant knows

[inspector gadget]

I'm sure that the home page links show the forum, watch talk and Timefactors watches, am I missing something here?

[bwest76]

I'm not that new to the forum, but I've been more of a lurker, just quietly enjoying it for years, than a poster (although that's changing). My feeling is leave it as it is. For the same reason an old oak desk is less efficient that a modern glass and stainless steel one. It's better, even if sometimes it doesn't do things as easily as you'd like.

someones bound to label you a speed poster now

[FrontierGibberish]

someones bound to label you a speed poster now

I may have been "hasty" here. I'll just go an sit quietly for another four years. No idea what came over me.

[learningtofly]

If they're doing something then there is a process or they wouldn't be doing anything. It may not be a documented process, it may be a chaotic process, but it is a process nevertheless. And yes, I've worked in, and rectified, such situations in companies as you describe - usually it's developed through a process of evolution and mismanagement; the staff themselves are often aware of what's wrong and what needs to be done to rectify things - as every good consultant knows

Absolutely right, Peter. I've been doing similar work for the last 20/25 years, and to add to what you say the most crucial time is that spend understanding the as-is position. Properly.

[Ruggertech]

I may have been "hasty" here. I'll just go an sit quietly for another four years. No idea what came over me.

The saddoes will be talking about you in the bear pit if you aren't carefull

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[RAFF]

If they're doing something then there is a process or they wouldn't be doing anything. It may not be a documented process, it may be a chaotic process, but it is a process nevertheless. And yes, I've worked in, and rectified, such situations in companies as you describe - usually it's developed through a process of evolution and mismanagement; the staff themselves are often aware of what's wrong and what needs to be done to rectify things - as every good consultant knows

I think you know I mean ‘official unified process’ that everyone follows. Is there really the need to dissect the dictionary definition? People doing the same things separately and differently from each other, resulting in failure is what I mean by no process, which I’m sure you understood.

There are those that know and want improvements but also plenty of entrenched staff getting away with murder unchecked. The former a quickly identified and involved in making things better.


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[FrontierGibberish]

[QUOTE=Ruggertech;5412285]The saddoes will be talking about you in the bear pit if you aren't carefull

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It's my own fault for being racey.

[Wallasey Runner]

The saddoes will be talking about you in the bear pit if you aren't carefull

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Aren't you a regular in there

[Ruggertech]

Aren't you a regular in there

How else would I know?

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[Griswold]

I think you know I mean ‘official unified process’ that everyone follows. Is there really the need to dissect the dictionary definition? People doing the same things separately and differently from each other, resulting in failure is what I mean by no process, which I’m sure you understood.

There are those that know and want improvements but also plenty of entrenched staff getting away with murder unchecked. The former a quickly identified and involved in making things better.


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Not dissecting any definitions at all, just being clear - which is what processes are all about.

[AlphaOmega]

The saddoes will be talking about you in the bear pit if you aren't carefull

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Hang on.

We're not all sad.

Some of us are ignorant and socially inept, too.

[Ruggertech]

Hang on.

We're not all sad.

Some of us are ignorant and socially inept, too.

I can certainly see myself in some of that lol

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[RAFF]

Not dissecting any definitions at all, just being clear - which is what processes are all about.

How I get ready in the morning is a process, but when we're talking the work place it has a slightly different connotation doesn't it? So by saying 'If they're doing something then there is a process or they wouldn't be doing anything.' is clearly focusing on the strict dictionary definition rather than sensibly applying it to the context. But actually, it isn't as doing something isn't a process, it's just doing something. Doing a series of things to get a result would be a process, in the strictest terms and if I'm also splitting hairs :)

Now I'll pull myself out of this rabbit hole.

[jukeboxs]

Hang on.

We're not all sad.

Some of us are ignorant and socially inept, too.

Agree - although you can be all three (these are not mutually exclusive).

[Wallasey Runner]

How else would I know?

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Right, I get it now, everyone in the BP is a saddoe except you, because you only go in to monitor what's going on. Nice of Eddie to appoint a number two to keep an eye on things for him.

[AlphaOmega]

This thread is going well, isn't it.

[Ruggertech]

Right, I get it now, everyone in the BP is a saddoe except you, because you only go in to monitor what's going on. Nice of Eddie to appoint a number two to keep an eye on things for him.

Where did I say except me? Have you had a sense of humour bypass? A tongue in cheek little jape is all it was, lighten up and keep well.

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