It’s an old pattern Ettrick Knife.
Very slightly raised, due to blade wear.Originally Posted by sweets
Could be, but still the leaning back blade isn't accounted for.
A few more.
Mother of pearl, about 2.5 inches closed.
MOP fruit knife, silver blade dated to 1887.
Horn scaled Lambsfoot, A. Parkin, Parker? Well worn.
Can anyone tell me if the OPs jack knife is legal to carry in the UK? I’ve been googling and can’t be sure.
Knife is legal to carry without reasonable reason if the blade is non locking and the cutting edge is shorter than 3 inches. It may be prudent to read this as "a blade shorter than 3 inches". Some venues would still be off limits, like a tribunal for instance. Also, if you were to behave stupidly with a legal knife you can still be charge as carrying an offensive weapon. But then that's true of a pencil or your house keys, too
Last edited by Saint-Just; 12th May 2020 at 14:22.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Are you over 18 years? If yes, you can buy one!
Yes to carry as: folding; no additional locking mechanism (other than spring); blade less than 3”, or something along those lines.
If you do, always close it with your fingers well out of the way. As has been mentioned, the snap is snappy. Or, ask a responsible adult to do it for you.
Have fun rope splicing.
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Thanks SJ. I couldn’t work out if that particular knife is non-locking though.Knife is legal to carry without reasonable reason if the blade is non locking and the cutting edge is shorter than 3 inches. It may be prudent to read this as "a blade shorter than 3 inches". Some venues would still be off limits, like a tribunal for instance. Also, if you were to behave stupidly with a legal knife you can still be charge as carrying an offensive weapon. But then that's true of a pencil or your house keys, too
Last edited by alfat33; 12th May 2020 at 14:27.
Thanks David :).
The OP’s one is non locking. Sorry. I wanted to give you a overall view.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
No problem, very helpful, except thanks to you two I now have one on the way
Ok quick update
The knife has spent a week in a small tub of WD40. I have taken it out used a toothbrush on it and wiped it. It’s looking better!
Still extremely stiff to open though
Next steps? Back in wd40?
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A fair dose of 3 in 1?
Should loosen the joints up.
Same again leave it in?
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JGJG did an excellent rejuvenation job on this jackknife, documented here: https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...173-(more-pics!)
before
(unclealec's photo)
after
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
Yep I agree.
Bung some on the pivots & leave it a few days. No need to immerse it in it just put a few drops on each.
WD40 disperses moisture so it's probably taken any lubricant out of the joints that was there. The 3 in 1 should sort it. Just leave it a while to work in.
I would coat the pivots / joints and leave it for a week to so
Move the blade every now and again to help the the oil get in between the metal.
I hope the OP doesn’t mind but I wanted to post some pictures of the one I bought thanks to this thread. I’ve been looking for a pen knife for a while, robust, with a bit of character.
It turned up covered in dried up grease and grime (as the seller said it would), but scrubbed up pretty well with some Fairy Liquid, WD40, wire wool, and a tiny bit of Brasso .
Now I need to oil the joints and sharpen it - 4000/1000 whetstone? I could probably clean up the metal a bit more but I might just live with it like this for now, I don’t want it too new.
Very nice indeed. Don't worry about polishing it more. However try and see if you can get the can opener to close a bit better or it will catch both your pockets and possibly a bit of skin on occasion. I know it doesn't stand out when both blades are shut though.
It is usually mild steel so a sharpening steel will probably be enough. You may need to do it regularly but you'll keep your blade for longer.
Last edited by Saint-Just; 18th May 2020 at 17:17.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Forgive my ignorance but what is the fork shaped implement for?
Opening cans via the stab method.
Last edited by alfat33; 18th May 2020 at 17:28.
OK thanks, I’ll give that a try.
Belgian Army, nice, virtually identical to the British Army ones.I hope the OP doesn’t mind but I wanted to post some pictures of the one I bought thanks to this thread. I’ve been looking for a pen knife for a while, robust, with a bit of character.
It turned up covered in dried up grease and grime (as the seller said it would), but scrubbed up pretty well with some Fairy Liquid, WD40, wire wool, and a tiny bit of Brasso .
Now I need to oil the joints and sharpen it - 4000/1000 whetstone? I could probably clean up the metal a bit more but I might just live with it like this for now, I don’t want it too new.
These are the knives that started me off on collecting Army knives, I bought one & was just hooked.
Usually have incredibly strong blade springs !
How do I not have one of these? This could be a whole new rabbit hole, it’s great to see the before and afters... where would be a good place to look for one?
OP, looking forward to seeing your progress
The Belgian ones still crop up in Army & Navy stores, often as NOS.
Car Boot sales can sometimes be a source (don't see as many now as once was the case). Militaria shows are another good source.
Just a few quick snaps, then...
First a Joseph Rodgers. Oil the joints!
Then my grand father's pocket knife. He always had it on him. Called it his Opinel... I later found out that it was a fake, albeit excellent quality, from a time where identifying fakes was probably not as easy as today:
Then my Wenger Swiss Army; I had written a post with the history of this knife on another forum, but it's all gone now so from memory. You can see the Swiss cross, hot stamped by whoever was in charge to certify it met Army standards.
The P on the blade indicates it was bought privately. It was often the case as soldiers would keep their issued knife pristine for inspection.
Last edited by Saint-Just; 18th May 2020 at 19:02.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
How odd! Was just about to post up to ask someone what this knife would have been used for, why the huge steel "claw"? I have had this for around 25 years and just found it in the bottom of an odds-and-ends drawer!
As a result of Googling today about my new acquisition, I believe I can also tell you that the teardrop shaped slot in the handle is a shackle wrench.
And I just thought it was to reduce the weight!
It’s the civilian yachting version.
We got issued randomly knives with or without the marlin spike so I guess they are the same part number.
https://bernal-cutlery.shoplightspee...ans-knife.html
There goes the fortune I thought it was worth!
I have two all steel from the 50s and a navy one in super condition from 1945 plus Swedish and American full linesmen tool kits.
Nice! I'm not a collector or anything, picked this up from a charity shop years ago. As I said, I had forgotten about it before finding it this evening. Just so happens that someone posted up a thread as I was about to start one of my own. Any idea how old mine might be?
Some lovely new images guys! Loving your handiwork Simon, and I want Marc's Wenger...
Here's one you might not have seen before, looks like it's for cyclists or something. The blades'edge' isn't very sharp, in fact it is totally blunt. Not mine, belongs to a mate who wanted to know what it was.
This is a re-worked military electrician's knife, and has an extremely strong spring. It cannot be opened with your nail, I use pliers! Closing is scary too, it's worse than Arkwright's till.
What it should look like.
I mentioned in an earlier post that I had cleaned up a 1940s Wenger Swiss Army Knife.It was pretty stuck, but I think it cleaned up really well.
Here it is:
It's 82mm closed. I guess the nearest current model is an 84mm Victorinox Tourist.
Last edited by BillyCasper; 23rd October 2022 at 15:17.
Very nice Billy. But Are you sure about the date? can you check the thickness of the screwdriver at the tip, please?
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I reckon the screwdriver on the cap lifter is about 5mm x 1mm.
I dated it as 1940s on the basis of (1) Main blade tang stamp 1920 - 1945 (2) Shield 1940 -1960 (3) There was something about the evolution of one of the tools, cap lifter or tin opener, I can't remember now and can't find the source. The tin opener is old style, cap lifter doesn't have a wire stripper and the punch is the three sided affair of two flat faces and an arc).
I'm not a collector (well except for a few odds and sods picked up over the years, seven WKs, a DAK, Man on the Moon and 125 Anniversary Soldier), so my knowledge is limited to a perusal of SAKWIKI and Swiss Army Knights Forum.
Thank you. I was initially surprised with both the shield and the shape of the blade, which is much closer to a modern SAK than mine.
The reason I ask for the screwdriver is because while researching mine I found something fascinating: As you know, those SAKs were genuinely soldiers' knives. The screwdriver was to dismantle their rifle. It so happens that at some point, the Swiss Army changed the model of rifle, and the new screws were smaller. And I looked into this because my screwdriver has been filed, indicating that it was the old screwdriver adapted (by the soldier, no doubt, as it's a "P" blade) to fit the new rifle.
Unfortunately all the above is from vague memory (we're talking 10 years ago) and I cannot be more precise; I probably should at least revisit those sites.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Right is a 1944 Wenger Soldier with the WK stamp and clip point.
Centre, I reckon 1940-45 Wenger, civilian retail with spear point
Left is a 1955 Victorinox Soldier with the WK stamp and spear point. I think the smaller Soldier came in the early 1950s. You mention new rifle. Around this time? The screwdriver does look a bit smaller than the 1944 but not by much. It also has a hole through one of the pins. I recall something about putting string through to use the knife as a plomb attached at the other end to the rifle for setting the range for firing a rifle grenade. Know naught about these kind of things.
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Last edited by BillyCasper; 23rd October 2022 at 15:17.
Thank you for the photo. I think it was in the 50s but as I said, I have no element other than a vague recollection.
The plomb thing is correct. Knives were supplied in a little bag (coton or hessian, I have never seen one but in a drawing) for the same purpose
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Sorry I don’t, but it will do the job the same as the issued ones.
Shackle KEY ...
Thanks for the comments. Now I’m using it a bit, I found it almost impossible to open the blade without using both hands.
I fixed it by filing down the profile of the shoulder that presses against the spring. Not sure if they are the right terms but it’s this bit here which is exposed when the blade is open. Initially this was a sharp corner.
I did it little by little with a small file, didn’t take too much off and tried to keep a rounded profile. Now it is tight but I can open it with my fingernail. Also closing the blade is no longer a game of chance with my finger, as the snap is much more progressive.
I’m not sure if this is good practice but it’s made the knife a lot more usable.
A good mod', well done.Thanks for the comments. Now I’m using it a bit, I found it almost impossible to open the blade without using both hands.
I fixed it by filing down the profile of the shoulder that presses against the spring. Not sure if they are the right terms but it’s this bit here which is exposed when the blade is open. Initially this was a sharp corner.
I did it little by little with a small file, didn’t take too much off and tried to keep a rounded profile. Now it is tight but I can open it with my fingernail. Also closing the blade is no longer a game of chance with my finger, as the snap is much more progressive.
I’m not sure if this is good practice but it’s made the knife a lot more usable.
Yes they are an absolute bugger to open, you can probably spot most owners of these knives by their broken fingernails !
Excellent knife, have fun with it.
They are just fabulous, they really are. Absolute knife porn, great things.
Right is a 1944 Wenger Soldier with the WK stamp and clip point.
Centre, I reckon 1940-45 Wenger, civilian retail with spear point
Left is a 1955 Victorinox Soldier with the WK stamp and spear point. I think the smaller Soldier came in the early 1950s. You mention new rifle. Around this time? The screwdriver does look a bit smaller than the 1944 but not by much. It also has a hole through one of the pins. I recall something about putting string through to use the knife as a plomb attached at the other end to the rifle for setting the range for firing a rifle grenade. Know naught about these kind of things.
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My edc is a Victorinox (just a modern Spartan), I really rate Swiss army knives.
I must resist this becoming another rabbit-hole I disappear down... !
Got to agree, Billy has a great collection!
Here is my vintage 1960's 'Salesman' model.
And an old French Pradel, looks better now than in this old picture, copper shackle and pins are actually visible now, and the grinding marks are gone.
Pradel is one of the oldest (I think the oldest, but it could be Nontron) French brands. Born in Normandy, copying an English knife.
It is also the brand that was the most copied throughout the later part of the 19th and most of the 20th century.
Again, I had written a fairly extensive post on the brand, with the different logos, true and faked, but it's all gone to the great archive in the sky, now...
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I read somewhere a couple of years ago that Pradel had lots of copies.
I checked online and saw so many that in some way were similar to mine, that I couldn't say either way.
I would really appreciate your opinion on it Marc.
Really difficult to tell.
This is the original Pradel, an excellent quality copie from a Sheffield knife of the time:
The anchor and the name are what you are looking for. But this page will give you an idea of the extent of the problem (Thiers, in knife terms, is the French equivalent of Sheffield here, Toledo in Spain or Solingen in Germany:
https://oldbritva.ru/wp-content/uplo...-de-THIERS.htm
Even today, on its website (with a new logo) the Pradel brand warns that it doesn't sell in trade fairs and on markets: https://www.pradel-france.com/content/6-la-marque
Having said that:
You must understand that the Pradel brand was faked because it was recognised across France (like Opinel for my grandfather's knife) but it didn't mean what you got was shit. In fact, many were better quality than the original they copied.
Also, while they were stamping the blade with the name, most of the models were not copies of an original Pradel.
I am fairly certain that the Swiss Army copies (on the other pen knife thread) are fake: Pradel would never put the shield, which at the time symbolised it was approved by the Swiss Army.
Yours is more difficult to tell. If I had to place my bet on true or false, I would reluctantly put it on false, purely based on the model. However it looks to be really good quality, possibly better than Pradel at the time.
Last edited by Saint-Just; 20th May 2020 at 22:34.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Thanks Marc, I think you are probably right. I still like the knife though, it's a part of the history of the pen/jack/pocket knife.
And so you should. There was nothing wrong with those knives. Remember that it's long before the internet, when even the concept of putting a brand from another company was mostly unknown to customers. Even today Pradel cannot enforce it in France, it's not worth it.Thanks Marc, I think you are probably right. I still like the knife though, it's a part of the history of the pen/jack/pocket knife.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
That steak looks bloody tough, no wonder you need a decent knife
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
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