Pen knife restoration help

[woodacre1983]

This is one for the knife experts on here.
I have this knife it’s en extremely sentimental piece to me. Left to me by my Grandad when he passed away. He always told me when I was a kid he got it when he was about 12 years old which would date the knife to CIRCA 1930.

This knife went everywhere with my grandad for many years including across the world when he served in the RAF WW2. He used to tell me about this and how despite his ship he was travelling on in 1943 being sunk he survived as did his watch and this knife!

For anyone interested the ship was the Duchess of York.

Now the knife itself now.. unfortunately it’s in need of some (I have no idea how much!) work. All the functions shown are extremely stiff... the blade is totally blunt. And the knife itself is showing it’s age in dirt..

I would love to restore this to its former glory.












And of course a picture of the watch


https://i.imgur.com/NX21RLS.jpg


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[woodacre1983]

What would be the best way of sharpening this?


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[Sinnlover]

Thanks for sharing your families story
I have restored three of these
I one was in a shocking state, another was NOS and caked in its preservative grease that had set hard.
I left them all in a glass of WD40 for a week or so then give them an good wipe done with rags and kitchen towel, then a light rub down with Brillo pad to remove any rust.
I then sit them in a glass of 3 in one for a another week or so before a final sharpen
I gave one to my father and I keep 2 in different shooting bags, the screwdriver at the end is perfect for adjusting scopes
They are just mild steel so if you plan on carrying / using it keep it well oiled and dry it asap if it gets wet. As mentioned the springs a a b@stard so keep your fingers well clear when closing!

- - - Updated - - -

What would be the best way of sharpening this?


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Wet / oil stone!

[woodacre1983]

Thanks for sharing your families story
I have restored three of these
I one was in a shocking state, another was NOS and caked in its preservative grease that had set hard.
I left them all in a glass of WD40 for a week or so then give them an good wipe done with rags and kitchen towel, then a light rub down with Brillo pad to remove any rust.
I then sit them in a glass of 3 in one for a another week or so before a final sharpen
I gave one to my father and I keep 2 in different shooting bags, the screwdriver at the end is perfect for adjusting scopes
They are just mild steel so if you plan on carrying / using it keep it well oiled and dry it asap if it gets wet. As mentioned the springs a a b@stard so keep your fingers well clear when closing!

- - - Updated - - -



Wet / oil stone!

Thanks. I guess I am lucky it is blunt! I am now very well aware of those springs!!!! Ouch!

I would love to sharpen it and use it occasionally. The value is massively sentimental and I have more modern knifes for everyday use.


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[ETCHY]

What would be the best way of sharpening this?


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Very carefully.

You're lucky in that a lot of these are just sharpened to nothing & yours still has quite a bit of blade left on it. Personally I don't sharpen mine as I don't actually use them they just live out their retirement with me. For everyday carry/ use I use a Swiss Army knife (I also find them easier on the finger nails to open !) However if you are going to sharpen it try to go easy & don't take too much blade off, it's evidently judging by some of the ones i have very easy !

Thanks for the compliment BillyCasper dunno about being an expert but i know a bit ! These are lovely old things & such a personal item, it's nice to preserve them.

Geek fact for those interested, you'll tend to find from around 1945 the tin opener also has a bottle opener curve added to the lower part of it, presumably due to crown cork bottle lids arriving here.

Let us know how you get on & as already observed - watch out for those blade springs !

[Mr Curta]

JGJG did an excellent rejuvenation job on this jackknife, documented here: https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...173-(more-pics!)

before

(unclealec's photo)


after

[Sinnlover]

This one was the NOS knife it dates from 1952

This one is from 1941 and has seen a hard life as the blade has been ground down from constant sharpening. It’s still sharper than a sharp thing though.






The Royal Navy are still issuing Jack Knifes like these to this day
They are now stainless and some are lock knifes but the blade and tools (they have got rid of the rope spike though) are still the same
I have one of them somewhere.

Found it!




If I could find a non Lock version it would be the perfect everyday knife as it is nice a slim for the pocket.

[WTRacer]

The Royal Navy are still issuing Jack Knifes like these to this day
They are now stainless and some are lock knifes but the blade and tools (they have got rid of the rope spike though) are still the same
I have one of them somewhere.

In case you didn't know, and wanted to, it's called a Fid.

[Sinnlover]

In case you didn't know, and wanted to, it's called a Fid.

Every day is a school day!
Thanks

[bobbee]

In case you didn't know, and wanted to, it's called a Fid.

Ones like these are called marlin spikes or marling spikes. Fids are traditionally made of wood or bone.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...de4FhZEaI0jMCX

[Iain73]

I remember my great uncle had one of these, he served in the army during WW2 and was at Dunkirk. I always wondered what the spike was for.

With regards to sharpening I find the Lansky professional kits is very good, but expensive. No point buying one to use once or twice. Perhaps see if someone close to you has one (or similar) to get the blade back in shape and then you can maintain with a simple kit after that.

[Kris]

Ones like these are called marlin spikes or marling spikes. Fids are traditionally made of wood or bone.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...de4FhZEaI0jMCX

Yep, this !

Fids originate from the square rigged sailing ships and are used to assist when splicing rope (as in Saint-Just's picture of an eye splice). They are made of wood as they are less likely to damage the fibers of the rope causing it to fray and break.

Marlin Spikes are made from steel and are used for splicing wire hawsers, needing to be more robust and pointed to help separate the wire strands of the hawser.

My thanks to the original poster on this thread and those who have contributed. It's inspired me to start a sympathetic restoration of 2 of my fathers clasp knives, one carried throughout his service in WW2 during his Naval service, the other acquired during his RNR service after the war.

Both are great tools and a symbol of Seamanship kills, proudly earned and carried by those in today's Navy after completing their seamanship section of training at HMS Raleigh, Jupiter Point school of Seamanship.

[sweets]

In case you didn't know, and wanted to, it's called a Fid.

Not a marlinspike?

We always used the word fids for the stringy bits of peel in marmalade, but I am pretty sure that was my grandfather having a joke.

D

[WTRacer]

Not a marlinspike?

We always used the word fids for the stringy bits of peel in marmalade, but I am pretty sure that was my grandfather having a joke.

D

You missed someone else already post about marlinspike. I was going to include mention of this in my original reply, but the terms are largely interchangeable.

[Iain73]

You missed someone else already post about marlinspike. I was going to include mention of this in my original reply, but the terms are largely interchangeable.

Edit: asked a question which was already answered in a previous post. Apologies.

[JasonM]

Ive picked up a few interesting penknives over the years, this first one I inherited from my Mum, I don't know its history but its likely a family one as she wouldn't have bought it, I think its best days are behind it , its had a few sharpenings in its time!
Its a shame as its built very well, you can just make out 'Real Lambs Foot' on the blade and Britains Best on the blade near the hinge.



A couple of my military knives, the '52 because it has the marlin spike, I was wondering what the other numbers mean? CC1287 on this and CC1286 on the '53, is it the pattern number?
Sadly the '53 is a bit knackered, the internal dividers have come away.



Lastly, a sentimental one, Sheffield made, my Grandpa's, quite small, the blades come out by twisting the rings on each side, you can make out the 'Dusty' inscription on the side. ( our surname is Miller )

[ETCHY]

This one was the NOS knife it dates from 1952

This one is from 1941 and has seen a hard life as the blade has been ground down from constant sharpening. It’s still sharper than a sharp thing though.






The Royal Navy are still issuing Jack Knifes like these to this day
They are now stainless and some are lock knifes but the blade and tools (they have got rid of the rope spike though) are still the same
I have one of them somewhere.

Found it!




If I could find a non Lock version it would be the perfect everyday knife as it is nice a slim for the pocket.

Nice collection you have there.

Note the steel bolster on the 1941, i always rather like that feature.

The ABL is a Belgian version of the British army knife (in most respects identical) you'll see various versions of those including some with Colin Winand on the can opener instead of ABL.
It's the Belgian ones that got me into this army knife madness, the blade springs in my experience are even stiffer on those, they're crazy !

[Sinnlover]

Nice collection you have there.

Note the steel bolster on the 1941, i always rather like that feature.

The ABL is a Belgian version of the British army knife (in most respects identical) you'll see various versions of those including some with Colin Winand on the can opener instead of ABL.
It's the Belgian ones that got me into this army knife madness, the blade springs in my experience are even stiffer on those, they're crazy !

Thanks for the info I did not know that!
I have never really thought of it as a collection before although I have lots. I tend to buy knifes to suit a particular need I might have.
Small SAK for jeans pocket
shooting bags - I collect Lee Enfield’s so period knifes seem to suit
Work bags - SAKs and others
Tool box - fixed Blade Morikniv
Travel bag - Large lock SAK and a flick knife (I holiday in some strange places)
Then there are garden knives too...

Anyway sorry to derail the thread.

[woodacre1983]

Thanks for the info I did not know that!
I have never really thought of it as a collection before although I have lots. I tend to buy knifes to suit a particular need I might have.
Small SAK for jeans pocket
shooting bags - I collect Lee Enfield’s so period knifes seem to suit
Work bags - SAKs and others
Tool box - fixed Blade Morikniv
Travel bag - Large lock SAK and a flick knife (I holiday in some strange places)
Then there are garden knives too...

Anyway sorry to derail the thread.

Derail the thread? No chance! Much advice received thank you! And I’m loving the showing of the knife collections!


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[BillyCasper]

Derail the thread? No chance! Much advice received thank you! And I’m loving the showing of the knife collections!


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Just for interest here’’re Swiss Army Soldier Knives of the same era, a 1939 Victorinox and 1944 Wenger with a modern day bog standard for comparison.




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[Saint-Just]

Small screwdriver

The old SAKs have a much better quality steel, reasonably light for EDC today.

Edit: sorry, I meant better steel compared to the British Army ones (or any other military one, for that matter).

[Sinnlover]

I was in the safe this morning so a quick pic of some kit of a similar age


1941 issue Jack Knife
ATP Watch
Lee Enfield No4 mk2
No4 ‘pig sticker’ bayonet

[alfat33]

Can anyone tell me if the OPs jack knife is legal to carry in the UK? I’ve been googling and can’t be sure.

[Saint-Just]

Can anyone tell me if the OPs jack knife is legal to carry in the UK? I’ve been googling and can’t be sure.

Knife is legal to carry without reasonable reason if the blade is non locking and the cutting edge is shorter than 3 inches. It may be prudent to read this as "a blade shorter than 3 inches". Some venues would still be off limits, like a tribunal for instance. Also, if you were to behave stupidly with a legal knife you can still be charge as carrying an offensive weapon. But then that's true of a pencil or your house keys, too

[alfat33]

Knife is legal to carry without reasonable reason if the blade is non locking and the cutting edge is shorter than 3 inches. It may be prudent to read this as "a blade shorter than 3 inches". Some venues would still be off limits, like a tribunal for instance. Also, if you were to behave stupidly with a legal knife you can still be charge as carrying an offensive weapon. But then that's true of a pencil or your house keys, too

Thanks SJ. I couldn’t work out if that particular knife is non-locking though.

[Saint-Just]

Thanks SJ. I can’t work out if that particular knife is non-locking though.

The OP’s one is non locking. Sorry. I wanted to give you a overall view.

[alfat33]

The OP’s one is non locking. Sorry. I wanted to give you a overall view.

No problem, very helpful, except thanks to you two I now have one on the way

[BillyCasper]

Can anyone tell me if the OPs jack knife is legal to carry in the UK? I’ve been googling and can’t be sure.

Are you over 18 years? If yes, you can buy one!

Yes to carry as: folding; no additional locking mechanism (other than spring); blade less than 3”, or something along those lines.

If you do, always close it with your fingers well out of the way. As has been mentioned, the snap is snappy. Or, ask a responsible adult to do it for you.

Have fun rope splicing.


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[alfat33]

Are you over 18 years? If yes, you can buy one!

Yes to carry as: folding; no additional locking mechanism (other than spring); blade less than 3”, or something along those lines.

If you do, always close it with your fingers well out of the way. As has been mentioned, the snap is snappy. Or, ask a responsible adult to do it for you.

Have fun rope splicing.


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Thanks David :).

[alfat33]

Knife is legal to carry without reasonable reason if the blade is non locking and the cutting edge is shorter than 3 inches.

Are you over 18 years? If yes, you can buy one!

I hope the OP doesn’t mind but I wanted to post some pictures of the one I bought thanks to this thread. I’ve been looking for a pen knife for a while, robust, with a bit of character.

It turned up covered in dried up grease and grime (as the seller said it would), but scrubbed up pretty well with some Fairy Liquid, WD40, wire wool, and a tiny bit of Brasso .




Now I need to oil the joints and sharpen it - 4000/1000 whetstone? I could probably clean up the metal a bit more but I might just live with it like this for now, I don’t want it too new.

[Saint-Just]

Very nice indeed. Don't worry about polishing it more. However try and see if you can get the can opener to close a bit better or it will catch both your pockets and possibly a bit of skin on occasion. I know it doesn't stand out when both blades are shut though.

It is usually mild steel so a sharpening steel will probably be enough. You may need to do it regularly but you'll keep your blade for longer.

[rico]

Forgive my ignorance but what is the fork shaped implement for?

[alfat33]

It is usually mild steel so a sharpening steel will probably be enough. You may need to do it regularly but you'll keep your blade for longer.

OK thanks, I’ll give that a try.

[ETCHY]

I hope the OP doesn’t mind but I wanted to post some pictures of the one I bought thanks to this thread. I’ve been looking for a pen knife for a while, robust, with a bit of character.

It turned up covered in dried up grease and grime (as the seller said it would), but scrubbed up pretty well with some Fairy Liquid, WD40, wire wool, and a tiny bit of Brasso .




Now I need to oil the joints and sharpen it - 4000/1000 whetstone? I could probably clean up the metal a bit more but I might just live with it like this for now, I don’t want it too new.

Belgian Army, nice, virtually identical to the British Army ones.

These are the knives that started me off on collecting Army knives, I bought one & was just hooked.

Usually have incredibly strong blade springs !

[alfat33]

Usually have incredibly strong blade springs !

Thanks for the comments. Now I’m using it a bit, I found it almost impossible to open the blade without using both hands.

I fixed it by filing down the profile of the shoulder that presses against the spring. Not sure if they are the right terms but it’s this bit here which is exposed when the blade is open. Initially this was a sharp corner.


I did it little by little with a small file, didn’t take too much off and tried to keep a rounded profile. Now it is tight but I can open it with my fingernail. Also closing the blade is no longer a game of chance with my finger, as the snap is much more progressive.

I’m not sure if this is good practice but it’s made the knife a lot more usable.

[woodacre1983]

Ok quick update

The knife has spent a week in a small tub of WD40. I have taken it out used a toothbrush on it and wiped it. It’s looking better!
Still extremely stiff to open though








Next steps? Back in wd40?


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[Sinnlover]

I would get a wet stone and sharpen it that way
Failing that if you have a kitchen sharpening steel use that.
Go slow and try and keep the strokes even

[Saint-Just]

Regarding the crud on the scales, I would try gently with a wooden toothpick

[oldoakknives]

Regarding the crud on the scales, I would try gently with a wooden toothpick

This, or a hard plastic equivalent used with care. ^^

As far as sharpening is concerned, a 25-30 deg angle would be fine, but the most important thing is to keep the angle the same across the length of the blade and both sides.

This might help, around 2.10 the 'burr' or 'wire edge' is important.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9_sND3P_F4

[Craizeehair]

How do I not have one of these? This could be a whole new rabbit hole, it’s great to see the before and afters... where would be a good place to look for one?

OP, looking forward to seeing your progress

[ETCHY]

How do I not have one of these? This could be a whole new rabbit hole, it’s great to see the before and afters... where would be a good place to look for one?

OP, looking forward to seeing your progress

The Belgian ones still crop up in Army & Navy stores, often as NOS.

Car Boot sales can sometimes be a source (don't see as many now as once was the case). Militaria shows are another good source.

[Saint-Just]

Just a few quick snaps, then...

First a Joseph Rodgers. Oil the joints!


Then my grand father's pocket knife. He always had it on him. Called it his Opinel... I later found out that it was a fake, albeit excellent quality, from a time where identifying fakes was probably not as easy as today:


Then my Wenger Swiss Army; I had written a post with the history of this knife on another forum, but it's all gone now so from memory. You can see the Swiss cross, hot stamped by whoever was in charge to certify it met Army standards.




The P on the blade indicates it was bought privately. It was often the case as soldiers would keep their issued knife pristine for inspection.

[BillyCasper]

Right is a 1944 Wenger Soldier with the WK stamp and clip point.

Centre, I reckon 1940-45 Wenger, civilian retail with spear point

Left is a 1955 Victorinox Soldier with the WK stamp and spear point. I think the smaller Soldier came in the early 1950s. You mention new rifle. Around this time? The screwdriver does look a bit smaller than the 1944 but not by much. It also has a hole through one of the pins. I recall something about putting string through to use the knife as a plomb attached at the other end to the rifle for setting the range for firing a rifle grenade. Know naught about these kind of things.


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[Saint-Just]

Right is a 1944 Wenger Soldier with the WK stamp and clip point.

Centre, I reckon 1940-45 Wenger, civilian retail with spear point

Left is a 1955 Victorinox Soldier with the WK stamp and spear point. I think the smaller Soldier came in the early 1950s. You mention new rifle. Around this time? The screwdriver does look a bit smaller than the 1944 but not by much. It also has a hole through one of the pins. I recall something about putting string through to use the knife as a plomb attached at the other end to the rifle for setting the range for firing a rifle grenade. Know naught about these kind of things.


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Thank you for the photo. I think it was in the 50s but as I said, I have no element other than a vague recollection.
The plomb thing is correct. Knives were supplied in a little bag (coton or hessian, I have never seen one but in a drawing) for the same purpose

[ETCHY]

Right is a 1944 Wenger Soldier with the WK stamp and clip point.

Centre, I reckon 1940-45 Wenger, civilian retail with spear point

Left is a 1955 Victorinox Soldier with the WK stamp and spear point. I think the smaller Soldier came in the early 1950s. You mention new rifle. Around this time? The screwdriver does look a bit smaller than the 1944 but not by much. It also has a hole through one of the pins. I recall something about putting string through to use the knife as a plomb attached at the other end to the rifle for setting the range for firing a rifle grenade. Know naught about these kind of things.


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They are just fabulous, they really are. Absolute knife porn, great things.

My edc is a Victorinox (just a modern Spartan), I really rate Swiss army knives.

I must resist this becoming another rabbit-hole I disappear down... !

[bobbee]

Got to agree, Billy has a great collection!
Here is my vintage 1960's 'Salesman' model.






And an old French Pradel, looks better now than in this old picture, copper shackle and pins are actually visible now, and the grinding marks are gone.

[Saint-Just]

Pradel is one of the oldest (I think the oldest, but it could be Nontron) French brands. Born in Normandy, copying an English knife.
It is also the brand that was the most copied throughout the later part of the 19th and most of the 20th century.
Again, I had written a fairly extensive post on the brand, with the different logos, true and faked, but it's all gone to the great archive in the sky, now...

[bobbee]

Pradel is one of the oldest (I think the oldest, but it could be Nontron) French brands. Born in Normandy, copying an English knife.
It is also the brand that was the most copied throughout the later part of the 19th and most of the 20th century.
Again, I had written a fairly extensive post on the brand, with the different logos, true and faked, but it's all gone to the great archive in the sky, now...

I read somewhere a couple of years ago that Pradel had lots of copies.
I checked online and saw so many that in some way were similar to mine, that I couldn't say either way.
I would really appreciate your opinion on it Marc.

[BillyCasper]

Pradel is one of the oldest (I think the oldest, but it could be Nontron) French brands. Born in Normandy, copying an English knife.
It is also the brand that was the most copied throughout the later part of the 19th and most of the 20th century.
Again, I had written a fairly extensive post on the brand, with the different logos, true and faked, but it's all gone to the great archive in the sky, now...

The Nontron six tool Navette looks a nice alternative to a Victorinox, albeit more expensive. I like the burnt boxwood scales.


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[woodacre1983]

Just posting a bit of an update. Ok so I am not the greatest at DIY or any form of fixing things!
Thank you to those that have helped me! Much appreciated!

The knife has been soaked in WD40 cleaned with an old toothbrush and soapy water. Into 3in1 oil and cleaned again.

The knife is now reasonable to open and close. Not idea how to get the stuff off the handle or if this should be done? Part of me thinks if I can I’d like to. But then the other side thinks it shows the knifes life and tells it’s stories.

Tried to show a close up of the blade which is quite pitted and definitely blunt! Will take anyone’s advice on this..










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