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Thread: Lockdown easing?

  1. #1451
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    Let's not forget that simply sending out a kit is recorded as 'test done'.

    R
    The claim of +100,000 tests would be acceptable were it not for the underlying err - lying.
    Last edited by number2; 23rd May 2020 at 07:26.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  2. #1452
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    No. If you say you did x amount of tests, that's different to saying you tested x amount of people.

    I know you and others on here desperately want to run down the government, because they successfully pursued policies you disagree with, but at least try to be honest.
    Itís like saying you have had 15000 haircuts when you have had your haircut.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  3. #1453
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    Great interview and with Israel's former head of health.

    "What you get is fear and anxiety, and an inability to look at real data"

    Short interview, well worth a read.

    http://www.spiked-online.com/2020/05...peoples-lives/

  4. #1454
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Don't be surprised: it's the accepted nickname given to her by the Rob(NZ)s of this world, who would much prefer if NZ had a terrible death toll so that they would not look so stupid when criticising her.
    Bear in mind that RobNZ was extremely reluctant to condemn the mosque massacre in his own country and it will give you an idea of the kind of person you are talking to.

  5. #1455
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    No. If you say you did x amount of tests, that's different to saying you tested x amount of people.

    I know you and others on here desperately want to run down the government, because they successfully pursued policies you disagree with, but at least try to be honest.
    chuckle'd. Keep the faith ook.

  6. #1456
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    Bigotry, Alex, thatís all it takes, and bigots they are. Things are so bad for them in Kiwiland that NZís opposition just sacked itís leader a few months before the election because they hope the change will avoid a landslide victory for JA.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  7. #1457
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    Itís like saying you have had 15000 haircuts when you have had your haircut.
    Excellent

  8. #1458
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    Or counting a pair of gloves as two pieces of PPE.

  9. #1459
    Look at how many PPE items you can get in one box.

    (Dunno if it counts as 6 or 360 though).


    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  10. #1460
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    Look at how many PPE items you can get in one box.

    (Dunno if it counts as 6 or 360 though).


    R
    That depends upon who's doing the maths.
    Last edited by number2; 23rd May 2020 at 09:43.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  11. #1461
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    That depends upon who's doing the maths.
    Nice edit. I know how you like to save posts so I saved it for you.

    Last edited by oldoakknives; 23rd May 2020 at 11:20.
    Cuidich 'n Righ

  12. #1462
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Nice edit.
    I try to consider your sensitivities
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  13. #1463
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    No. If you say you did x amount of tests, that's different to saying you tested x amount of people.

    I know you and others on here desperately want to run down the government, because they successfully pursued policies you disagree with, but at least try to be honest.
    Is it useful for you to know how many test samples a patient has provided in the process of being tested for COVID, or would you rather know how many actual people are tested? Which number is more useful, hmmm let me think on that

    I am truly astounded at your ability to defend the indefensible. Do you tolerate being lied to and manipulated as easily in real life by people you know? Are your expectations of people set equally as low?

    Your supposition that I want to run the Gov down (desperately!) begs the question - why do you want to support them when they have lied and manipulated and failed? Give us something to support them and it will be acknowledged. I remember praising them when they announced they hit 100,000 tests a day when it looked unlikely. only for a day or two later for it come out that it was fudge. Conned again.

  14. #1464
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    Quote Originally Posted by mondie View Post
    Is it useful for you to know how many test samples a patient has provided in the process of being tested for COVID, or would you rather know how many actual people are tested? Which number is more useful, hmmm let me think on that

    I am truly astounded at your ability to defend the indefensible. Do you tolerate being lied to and manipulated as easily in real life by people you know? Are your expectations of people set equally as low?

    Your supposition that I want to run the Gov down (desperately!) begs the question - why do you want to support them when they have lied and manipulated and failed? Give us something to support them and it will be acknowledged. I remember praising them when they announced they hit 100,000 tests a day when it looked unlikely. only for a day or two later for it come out that it was fudge. Conned again.
    I would like to know both numbers. One shows how many tests are being carried out, the other how many people have been tested. They are obviously different figures. If you find it difficult to understand that it's not because they lied to you, it's because you didn't pay attention.

    I don't simply want to support the government, but on the other hand I don't think they have failed, I think they have worked hard to balance many factors. Whatever course they took would have led to the same old people criticising it, you must be able to see that. It's telling that the main people criticising the government on other issues are now queuing up to do the same on this one.
    Cuidich 'n Righ

  15. #1465
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    No. If you say you did x amount of tests, that's different to saying you tested x amount of people.

    I know you and others on here desperately want to run down the government, because they successfully pursued policies you disagree with, but at least try to be honest.
    Forgive me for using your own argument against you, but desperately supporting the government because they successfully pursued policies you agreed with is also not honest, I guess if you admitted to yourself that they are conning us now, they might have been conning you then.
    They are conniving and dishonest and manipulative and should be called out whenever itís warranted regardless of what party you support.
    Iíve been a Conservative supporter all my life but this current crop donít deserve my support and that has nothing to do with Brexit.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  16. #1466
    Counting a pair of gloves as 2 items of PPE is working very hard to balance something, right enough. Misleading the public by manipulating the figures being one of those somethings.

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  17. #1467
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    Forgive me for using your own argument against you, but desperately supporting the government because they successfully pursued policies you agreed with is also not honest, I guess if you admitted to yourself that they are conning us now, they might have been conning you then.
    They are conniving and dishonest and manipulative and should be called out whenever it’s warranted regardless of what party you support.
    I’ve been a Conservative supporter all my life but this current crop don’t deserve my support and that has nothing to do with Brexit.
    As I said below I do not simply want to support the government come what may. Nor do I think it's fair to use hindsight to criticise their actions especially coming from politicians who would probably have done a lot worse. Can you imagine the shadow cabinet going into the last election being in charge of this crisis? I shudder to think what the outcome would have been.
    And I don't think I was conned by them in the past, thats just an insult oft used by those who lost the argument.
    I'm not saying the government couldn't have done better. But saying they are "...conniving and dishonest and manipulative..." could be applied to many politicians of many parties.

    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    ...............................

    I don't simply want to support the government, but on the other hand I don't think they have failed, I think they have worked hard to balance many factors. Whatever course they took would have led to the same old people criticising it, you must be able to see that. It's telling that the main people criticising the government on other issues are now queuing up to do the same on this one.
    Cuidich 'n Righ

  18. #1468
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    As I said below I do not simply want to support the government come what may. Nor do I think it's fair to use hindsight to criticise their actions especially coming from politicians who would probably have done a lot worse. Can you imagine the shadow cabinet going into the last election being in charge of this crisis? I shudder to think what the outcome would have been.
    And I don't think I was conned by them in the past, thats just an insult oft used by those who lost the argument.
    I'm not saying the government couldn't have done better. But saying they are "...conniving and dishonest and manipulative..." could be applied to many politicians of many parties.
    I do agree with some of what you say, the Shadow cabinet was very unappealing indeed, and also that many politicians of many parties are dishonest etc, but thatís all the more reason to not support them, supporting this lot just because they better than the the other lot doesnt get us anywhere.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  19. #1469
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    I do agree with some of what you say, the Shadow cabinet was very unappealing indeed, and also that many politicians of many parties are dishonest etc, but thatís all the more reason to not support them, supporting this lot just because they better than the the other lot doesnt get us anywhere.
    It's just whataboutism, but the fact is that this government is the government and rightly should be held to account when they get things wrong.

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  20. #1470
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Nice edit. I know how you like to save posts so I saved it for you.

    Excellent

    Sent from my SM-A105FN using Tapatalk

  21. #1471
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    I would like to know both numbers. One shows how many tests are being carried out, the other how many people have been tested. They are obviously different figures. If you find it difficult to understand that it's not because they lied to you, it's because you didn't pay attention.
    If a friend says they have just been for a blood test do you want to know how many actual tests they have had?

    Honestly, what do you do with this information? If there has been 120,000 tests (that is kits issued whether used, disposed or whatever) but 75,000 were actually analysed in a lab, which number is more important? Unless you're the sales manager of a test kit supplier, kits used is irrelevant and deliberately used to deceive.

    Back to the lockdown, where does the Gov go next with schools? They have met a lot of opposition to their plans that has'nt been seen to the same degree in other countries. How can they regain the trust of the public and the people charged with making it happen? What happens if schools fail to open against the Gov's wishes?

  22. #1472
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    Quote Originally Posted by mondie View Post
    If a friend says they have just been for a blood test do you want to know how many actual tests they have had?

    Honestly, what do you do with this information? If there has been 120,000 tests (that is kits issued whether used, disposed or whatever) but 75,000 were actually analysed in a lab, which number is more important? Unless you're the sales manager of a test kit supplier, kits used is irrelevant and deliberately used to deceive.

    Back to the lockdown, where does the Gov go next with schools? They have met a lot of opposition to their plans that has'nt been seen to the same degree in other countries. How can they regain the trust of the public and the people charged with making it happen? What happens if schools fail to open against the Gov's wishes?
    You can presume track and trace will be “available” by 1st June. Working faultlessly - not a chance. Working “adequately” - unlikely.

  23. #1473
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    It's just whataboutism, but the fact is that this government is the government and rightly should be held to account when they get things wrong.

    R
    Yes perhaps a public enquiry once this is all over and learn from it for the future, in the middle of a global pandemic its simply not useful to keep finger pointing imo

  24. #1474
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slamdoor View Post
    You can presume track and trace will be ďavailableĒ by 1st June. Working faultlessly - not a chance.
    Oh I'm sure it'll be up and running, just take any figures they give with a humongous pinch of salt.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  25. #1475
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    Quote Originally Posted by mondie View Post
    If a friend says they have just been for a blood test do you want to know how many actual tests they have had?

    Honestly, what do you do with this information? If there has been 120,000 tests (that is kits issued whether used, disposed or whatever) but 75,000 were actually analysed in a lab, which number is more important? Unless you're the sales manager of a test kit supplier, kits used is irrelevant and deliberately used to deceive.

    Back to the lockdown, where does the Gov go next with schools? They have met a lot of opposition to their plans that has'nt been seen to the same degree in other countries. How can they regain the trust of the public and the people charged with making it happen? What happens if schools fail to open against the Gov's wishes?
    No I don't want to know how many tests they had.

    If 120,000 test kits are issued, then 120,000 tests were available. If only 75,000 were analysed both figures are important. We need to know what happened to the other 45,000?

    As for schools, why has there been so much opposition to re-opening in this country which hasn't been seen in other countries? What is the difference in this country? Could it have something to do with unions perhaps? Or do our teachers know something that other countries teachers don't?
    I saw a report on schools in Denmark and admit I was really impressed by the teachers attitudes and the way they seemed determined to make things work, rather than dragging their feet and looking for problems at every turn. I'm not saying these things will be easy, but it would be nice to hear a positive voice from those involved for once.
    Cuidich 'n Righ

  26. #1476
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Nice edit. I know how you like to save posts so I saved it for you.

    That's impressive, you took a screen shot 27 minutes after I edited it, I'm puzzled and of course very flattered - to be the center of such attention.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  27. #1477
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    Of course you all know the rules that Eddie follows when he decides to act against a poster, and those who quote a contentious post, in this case a political post. The OP realised he was in the G&D, and changed his post. What do those who quoted him do?

    I've said several times that this topic is eminently political, yet I believe it is a necessary thread considering our daily life. I think that Eddie thinks the same or this thread would be gone. But it also mean we have to tread a fine line...
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  28. #1478
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    Lolz.

    Sent from my SM-A105FN using Tapatalk

  29. #1479
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Of course you all know the rules that Eddie follows when he decides to act against a poster, and those who quote a contentious post, in this case a political post. The OP realised he was in the G&D, and changed his post. What do those who quoted him do?

    I've said several times that this topic is eminently political, yet I believe it is a necessary thread considering our daily life. I think that Eddie thinks the same or this thread would be gone. But it also mean we have to tread a fine line...
    One was a mistake, which when realised was corrected.

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  30. #1480
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    One was a mistake, which when realised was corrected.

    R
    Saying the OP was not the right word. He was the OP compared to the reposts only. But that was what I was trying to say
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  31. #1481
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    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    That's impressive, you took a screen shot 27 minutes after I edited it, I'm puzzled and of course very flattered - to be the center of such attention.
    Simply returning the compliment from your post below. Actually left it on the screen to reply to but real life intervened!

    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    And - saved.
    Cuidich 'n Righ

  32. #1482
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    The fact is that I edited my error @ 9:43 yet the time on the screenshot says 10;10 besides someone trying to make trouble I'm left wondering how?
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  33. #1483
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Simply returning the compliment from your post below. Actually left it on the screen to reply to but real life intervened!
    Fair enough,
    I've said before Ian that if this is a 'virtual pub' we all need to be able to take a bit of a ribbing now and then, enjoy the rest of the evening.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  34. #1484
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    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    The fact is that I edited my error @ 9:43 yet the time on the screenshot says 10;10 besides someone trying to make trouble I'm left wondering how?
    Quite simply I was looking on an I Phone at first, which leaves pages open unless you close them before exiting Safari. So when I went to reply to you on the Mac and the post had been changed I simply screen shotted it on the phone.
    To be honest it being 'political' wasn't the point I was making. It was simply that you seem like quoting my posts to 'save' them for some reason.
    Cuidich 'n Righ

  35. #1485
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    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    Fair enough,
    I've said before Ian that if this is a 'virtual pub' we all need to be able to take a bit of a ribbing now and then, enjoy the rest of the evening.
    True. You too.
    Cuidich 'n Righ

  36. #1486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    Or counting a pair of gloves as two pieces of PPE.
    Surely that dependant upon how they are ordered. You might assume that gloves are ordered in pairs, however that might not be the case, as some surgeons for example might double glove one hand, thus order two pairs would be wasteful. So is this 3 gloves or 1.5 pars?

    Also, according to the wife, sometimeS the NHS ordering system prevents the ordering of single item, so actually you might not be able to order a single apron (for example) only a box of 10. Therefore does this count as one item of PPE (because thatís what you order) or 10 pieces because that whatís in the box.

    As usual the devil is in the detail, which, as usual, many forum members simply donít have, but it wonít stop them voice a POV, which is wrong!

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  37. #1487
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    Surgical gloves for procedures are very different to regular gloves in a box for everything else so your example will be relevant to a minuscule number of ordered gloves. Seeing as a lot of elective surgery has been on hold for a few months this number will be even smaller.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  38. #1488
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Surely that dependant upon how they are ordered. You might assume that gloves are ordered in pairs, however that might not be the case, as some surgeons for example might double glove one hand, thus order two pairs would be wasteful. So is this 3 gloves or 1.5 pars?

    Also, according to the wife, sometimeS the NHS ordering system prevents the ordering of single item, so actually you might not be able to order a single apron (for example) only a box of 10. Therefore does this count as one item of PPE (because thatís what you order) or 10 pieces because that whatís in the box.

    As usual the devil is in the detail, which, as usual, many forum members simply donít have, but it wonít stop them voice a POV, which is wrong!
    The devil certainly can be in the detail, so for clarity are you suggesting that the NHS ordering system incorporates the ability to order gloves singly? (How many gloves a surgeon - or any medical practitioner for that matter - chooses to take out of the supplies is irrelevant to the multiples).

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  39. #1489
    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    The devil certainly can be in the detail, so for clarity are you suggesting that the NHS ordering system incorporates the ability to order gloves singly? (How many gloves a surgeon - or any medical practitioner for that matter - chooses to take out of the supplies is irrelevant to the multiples).

    R
    Canít see where heís suggesting that. Not singles but gloves often sold by the box of 100 or whatever and they arenít counted in pairs.

  40. #1490
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post

    As for schools, why has there been so much opposition to re-opening in this country which hasn't been seen in other countries? What is the difference in this country? Could it have something to do with unions perhaps? Or do our teachers know something that other countries teachers don't?
    I saw a report on schools in Denmark and admit I was really impressed by the teachers attitudes and the way they seemed determined to make things work, rather than dragging their feet and looking for problems at every turn. I'm not saying these things will be easy, but it would be nice to hear a positive voice from those involved for once.

    A lot of the opposition in the UK is from parents, OOK. Our village school is reopening but I suspect very few kids will go. The Year 6 will, mostly - final chance to see friends before they go to secondary school.

    Reception? Dream on. Keeping 4-5 year olds socially distanced will be a nightmare and the parents donít see that it will be done. Deciding the night before what toys will be used. Keeping all outside toys cordoned off. Very practical. Year Ones might be slightly better but again they are 5-6 so keeping distance will be very difficult. There is a one-way system being introduced to keep the 2 main groups apart but the school is a Victorian building so very Ďround the housesí

    Whatever the staff think, they are planning, organising and will be present to open the school - if parents send their kids. The guidance is to encourage parents but NOT fine them so as long as parents are able to look after their children at home, a lot of them will.

  41. #1491
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Can’t see where he’s suggesting that. Not singles but gloves often sold by the box of 100 or whatever and they aren’t counted in pairs.
    Can you see what he is suggesting, as ‘some surgeons for example might double glove one hand, thus order two pairs would be wasteful’ is why I’m asking for clarity?

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  42. #1492
    Quote Originally Posted by thenikjones View Post
    A lot of the opposition in the UK is from parents, OOK. Our village school is reopening but I suspect very few kids will go. The Year 6 will, mostly - final chance to see friends before they go to secondary school.

    Reception? Dream on. Keeping 4-5 year olds socially distanced will be a nightmare and the parents donít see that it will be done. Deciding the night before what toys will be used. Keeping all outside toys cordoned off. Very practical. Year Ones might be slightly better but again they are 5-6 so keeping distance will be very difficult. There is a one-way system being introduced to keep the 2 main groups apart but the school is a Victorian building so very Ďround the housesí

    Whatever the staff think, they are planning, organising and will be present to open the school - if parents send their kids. The guidance is to encourage parents but NOT fine them so as long as parents are able to look after their children at home, a lot of them will.
    I donít think thereís been any suggestion that our teachers know something that other countries donít, has there?

    What I do think they know is that it will be very challenging to keep young children socially distanced. Older children would at least understand the concept of keeping apart from each other though, which does raise the question of the governmentís choice of age grouping to Ďkick offí the gradual return to school.

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  43. #1493
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    I thought the younger/primary age children have been chosen because that would free up the parents to get back to work, at least partially. I didn't realise that that was a big secret - I'm sure it was mentioned explicitly or if not, in the sub-text?

  44. #1494
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    Quote Originally Posted by vagabond View Post
    I thought the younger/primary age children have been chosen because that would free up the parents to get back to work, at least partially. I didn't realise that that was a big secret - I'm sure it was mentioned explicitly or if not, in the sub-text?
    Reception will be hardest to socially isolate, followed by year 1. Seems an odd choice.

  45. #1495
    Master Alansmithee's Avatar
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    Something I'm not clear about - what is the score with academies?

    These were set up to maximise the opportunity to fleece the taxpayer the autonomy of the school or the trust it was in and remove entirely the control of the LEA - what happens if ones decides to stay closed?

  46. #1496
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alansmithee View Post
    Something I'm not clear about - what is the score with academies?

    These were set up to maximise the opportunity to fleece the taxpayer the autonomy of the school or the trust it was in and remove entirely the control of the LEA - what happens if ones decides to stay closed?
    I am an ex School Governor and if they and Headteacher say it closes, then it closes.

    Incidentally, academies have been the best thing since 1944 to happen to schools, the LEAs were an underperforming mess.

  47. #1497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    I am an ex School Governor and if they and Headteacher say it closes, then it closes.

    Incidentally, academies have been the best thing since 1944 to happen to schools, the LEAs were an underperforming mess.
    I canít agree, theyíre professional game players. Shifting resources to next school expecting an ofsted.

  48. #1498
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    Lockdown easing?

    Quote Originally Posted by thenikjones View Post
    A lot of the opposition in the UK is from parents, OOK. Our village school is reopening but I suspect very few kids will go. The Year 6 will, mostly - final chance to see friends before they go to secondary school.

    Reception? Dream on. Keeping 4-5 year olds socially distanced will be a nightmare and the parents donít see that it will be done. Deciding the night before what toys will be used. Keeping all outside toys cordoned off. Very practical. Year Ones might be slightly better but again they are 5-6 so keeping distance will be very difficult. There is a one-way system being introduced to keep the 2 main groups apart but the school is a Victorian building so very Ďround the housesí

    Whatever the staff think, they are planning, organising and will be present to open the school - if parents send their kids. The guidance is to encourage parents but NOT fine them so as long as parents are able to look after their children at home, a lot of them will.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  49. #1499
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    No I don't want to know how many tests they had.

    If 120,000 test kits are issued, then 120,000 tests were available. If only 75,000 were analysed both figures are important. We need to know what happened to the other 45,000?

    As for schools, why has there been so much opposition to re-opening in this country which hasn't been seen in other countries? What is the difference in this country? Could it have something to do with unions perhaps? Or do our teachers know something that other countries teachers don't?
    I saw a report on schools in Denmark and admit I was really impressed by the teachers attitudes and the way they seemed determined to make things work, rather than dragging their feet and looking for problems at every turn. I'm not saying these things will be easy, but it would be nice to hear a positive voice from those involved for once.

    Yes, it really would be nice to hear a positive voice #irony

  50. #1500
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodder View Post
    Yes, it really would be nice to hear a positive voice #irony
    So my questioning negativity, is itself negative?

    Are you bored or just want to comment on something, anything?
    Cuidich 'n Righ

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