University Students Private Tenancy Contracts for the Next Academic Year & Coronaviru

[noTAGlove]

Lots of talk now about universities starting next academic year on line. But hundreds of thousands of 2nd, 3rd and 4th year university students (including my son) are due to start private tenancies from 1st of July, and have committed into tenancy contracts which will cost them thousands and thousands of pounds over the year.

This will get difficult if students decide en-masse not to pay the landlords and claim the contract has been frustrated (a legal option to null and void the contract, but comes with a very high threshold). I see a legal test case coming soon if it looks like students cannot get back to university next year.

I have not and will not be signing any guarantor forms at the moment. It has got to be squeaky bum time if you are a student HMO landlord.

The more the virus goes on, even more things potentially start to unravel.

[redsox78]

The key thing with a circumstance like yours is to deal with the right people. If your child's accomdation is with a private provider it has nothing to do with the University. This is one of the 'adult responsibilities' students are supposed to start to learn. But I would be stunned if an institution could commit - in writing - to its plans before July (mine wont). Right now it is wagon circling. Oh, but don't worry if you don't get accodation untl a few weeks before it 'opens' (if places were able to teach 'in person'). The drop off of international students will be so massive, there is going to be no shortfall of accomdation!

[redsox78]

Lots of talk now about universities starting next academic year on line. But hundreds of thousands of 2nd, 3rd and 4th year university students (including my son) are due to start private tenancies from 1st of July, and have committed into tenancy contracts

P.s. why a contract from 1st July? In my instition our term starts third week in September. We have not told most studens their year results by 1st July!

[canuck]

At Exeter if you hadn’t booked your next years accommodation by April/ May you wouldn’t have one. Most private rentals as above, were payable all summer. Most landlords don’t only have term time bills so rentals were also year around.

[Michael 38]

Same with my stepson having to pay over the hols and some scumbag landlord making massive amounts of money from the shit hole he lives in,boiler broke in January don’t know if they’ve fixed it yet and he dare not complain cos he will need a reference from them for his next student house

[thegreatdogwood]

Good luck trying to argue the contract has been frustrated...….

It's no different to students this academic year, who are paying for accommodation this term when they are living at home, whilst also paying large tuition fees for a few video conference calls

[redsox78]

At Exeter if you hadn’t booked your next years accommodation by April/ May you wouldn’t have one. Most private rentals as above, were payable all summer. Most landlords don’t only have term time bills so rentals were also year around.

Wow, not like that at my place (and it is in a city so accomodation is more tight). We provide a list of private landolords for second and third years made up of landlords do not ask for contracts to run past the end of June (students don't always go with this list, of course) and you are not able to even apply for Uni Halls unti mid-august, regardless of year. If students are worried about references, representatives of their degree, and Uni student support, can provided refernces to the approved landlords.

Private landlords of student housing are generall rip-off merchants, no dobut about that.

[redsox78]

whilst also paying large tuition fees for a few video conference calls

lol, we don't give any online video sessions, because they are garbage.

[redsox78]

At Exeter if you hadn’t booked your next years accommodation by April/ May you wouldn’t have one. .

Exeter was/is ripping people off. But it's VC took a 850k golden handshake so it is part for the course.

[IAmATeaf]

I’ve already signed for next years accommodation for my son and am paying for this years right now whilst he’s at home. All in all a completely screwed up situation.

[redsox78]

I’ve already signed for next years accommodation for my son and am paying for this years right now whilst he’s at home. All in all a completely screwed up situation.

Neither of these things are acceptable, in my view. I run a degree, I would happily contact both our accommodation teams and any private provider to say they are being unfair. The whole system across education needs to be working together, not leaving some people in harder circumstances. I don't have a justification for you having to do this! Students can't get the usual jobs they would get with helping to pay for accommodation, so asking them to still pay is grifting, pure and simple.

Anyway, if people are interested - and now watch me break all sorts of rules - this morning I have been in an email discussion about what is going on behind the scenes. I post this beause risk of closure of courses is very real, so there needs to be solidarity across students, staff and those outside. Make no mistake, the sort of degrees tha could close are little subject like History and English. Not the degrees people like to mock (unjustifiably)...

This is part of an email chain about plans being put in place, a response from a (wise) colleague.

"One of my concerns is that degrees like ours are the most likely to be told that we're entirely online because we don't have labs/workshop needs (as in the physical space and equipment) etc. so we're pushed all online to make way for social distancing on other degrees due to space constraints. Meanwhile we're given inadequate technology, no physical or economic support for ongoing WFH, no accomodation for childcare and there is no provision for the extra people power required to do things like monitor online access, and work with those students who cannot access the online whatevers. A year from now we're called in to explain why our satisfaction scores have tanked (justifiably) students are suing the Uni for inadequate provision (justifiably) and ultimtely jobs are lost as our numbers plummet b/c why pay £9k for a crappy facsimile of distance Learning?

Alternatively, the entire timetable gets stretched to seven days, 12 hour days to find room for social distancing, and we end up with the worst slots as and no provision is made for staff w/o childcare at 6 am on a Sunday. No thought is given to staff trying to commute in while public transport is still curtailed and progression rates plummet as students are also impacted by these factors; a chemistry lab at 6am on a Sunday just does not work for them either (and they can't work to afford to be here anyway).

All that said, there were people at the Union baying to 'do anything' to avoid online provision b/c they think it is terrible. They were all for a delayed start but--that isn't a good solution. There WILL be more layffs/redundancies if that happens. Why pay professional support staff from admin to cleaning to do nothing?

There aren't good scenarios here but there definitely ways it can be worse! I don't like the idea of online only, but I'd totally do it if it helped us stay afloat and avoid job losses. I will kick up a fuss if we aren't given the resources to do our best with it though, and I am not letting us ingore those students who cannot access stuff as easily, or who are in family circumstances that are difficult".

Rest assured, academic staff are not sat around enjoying an early summer break. And don't be unrealistic, the universities at most risk are the ones most people on here think are the 'best'. They have leveraged their existence on fee paying foreign students, massive over-stuffed lecture theatres and low paid 'zero-hours' teaching staff, non of which are tenable for the foreseeable future. A number of 'redbricks' are going to get close or be near collapse before this is over.

[deepreddave]

We sought a written assurance that rent wouldn't be payable if travel was restricted but there didn't seem another option That doesn't cover distance learning but I'd probably favour my son returning to his accommodation and suspect he'll wish to do so.
I appreciate it's a challenging situation but I'm already somewhat frustrated at the limited hours of tuition provided by the Uni for my son's first year so the reduced quality of online distance learning for the same fee, whilst also paying for accommodation he doesn't need, is not great. With fees and accommodation etc it costs him/us c£18kpa for c28 weeks and some courses are seemingly offering <20hrs tuition which seems a poor deal to me. I'm not challenging lecturers or Uni staff per se, just the charges levied which I've always been against as I favoured a graduate tax.

[mondie]

We have kids at Uni and face similar issues, shite overpriced housing from greedy landlords who make it as difficult as possible for students to have even basic maintenance attended to. One small mercy from this crisis will be a shift in power from landlord to student. Bring it on.

[Alansmithee]

Rest assured, academic staff are not sat around enjoying an early summer break. And don't be unrealistic, the universities at most risk are the ones most people on here think are the 'best'. They have leveraged their existence on fee paying foreign students, massive over-stuffed lecture theatres and low paid 'zero-hours' teaching staff, non of which are tenable for the foreseeable future. A number of 'redbricks' are going to get close or be near collapse before this is over.

Yep - if as predicted a Student Number Cap comes in - it's the big RG universities who will have significant problems because their economic models no longer work.

[redsox78]

Yep - if as predicted a Student Number Cap comes in - it's the big RG universities who will have significant problems because their economic models no longer work.

At some level I have little sympathy; they have made their faustian bargain during the introduction (and lobbying for) fees, so they can lie in the bed they have made, but there is a collective interest as well (and I have a good friend at an RG that has already had the 'prepare for job losses' hint in an all-staff email).

My real worry is because people don't really understand the political economy of current UK HE the failing institutions - which are RG will get bailed out - at the cost of the sector as a whole.

[redsox78]

We have kids at Uni and face similar issues, shite overpriced housing from greedy landlords who make it as difficult as possible for students to have even basic maintenance attended to. One small mercy from this crisis will be a shift in power from landlord to student. Bring it on.

That shift needs to happen, fast. People's impression of landlord-tenant relationships would transform in an instant if they really saw what student landlords - who then tend to also have private lettings - get up to.

Interestingly the local council around here proposed to bring a lot of student housing under joint universities-control - a sort of 'council housing for students' - because they all tend to be in the same area. But, it was blocked as a result of austerity cuts. Now most of it is owned by the Middle East (true!).

Seriously though, we have stats on why students apply for 'extenuating circumstances' for assessments and a LOT is to do with shithouse landlords / housing.

[Alansmithee]

At some level I have little sympathy; they have made their faustian bargain during the introduction (and lobbying for) fees, so they can lie in the bed they have made, but there is a collective interest as well (and I have a good friend at an RG that has already had the 'prepare for job losses' hint in an all-staff email).

My real worry is because people don't really understand the political economy of current UK HE the failing institutions - which are RG will get bailed out - at the cost of the sector as a whole.

I am bemused when I talk to some academics who think everything will go back to normal in Sept... Hiring has basically stopped and I would expect to see a wave of redundancies and course closures after summer boards... (when marking and moderation done).

[redsox78]

We sought a written assurance that rent wouldn't be payable if travel was restricted but there didn't seem another option That doesn't cover distance learning but I'd probably favour my son returning to his accommodation and suspect he'll wish to do so.
I appreciate it's a challenging situation but I'm already somewhat frustrated at the limited hours of tuition provided by the Uni for my son's first year so the reduced quality of online distance learning for the same fee, whilst also paying for accommodation he doesn't need, is not great. With fees and accommodation etc it costs him/us c£18kpa for c28 weeks and some courses are seemingly offering <20hrs tuition which seems a poor deal to me. I'm not challenging lecturers or Uni staff per se, just the charges levied which I've always been against as I favoured a graduate tax.

My local Pure Gym personal trainer charges £50 for a 50 min session. if I had as many 50min sessions each week as we have lectures and tutorials, that would cost about £14,400 an academic (not calendar) year. He does not answer emails from me, or find extra time to see me outside of those sessions if I am stuck on something.

More seriously, How often did your son arrange to have one-on-one meetings with a tutor? There are two sets of access; one the formal timetabled stuff, and two the availability of meetings with staff where students can one-on-one talk about work / whatever. In my experience students do not use those extra sessions, because they just don't bother. But some institutions knowing students don't use them basically say "don't bother" and then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

I am not defending HE, and especially elite university that palm students off on to temporary part time (often PhD) students who do not have the time, or circumstances to offer students the support they need, while permanent research staff sit in locked corridors kept away from students.

But this is the world student fees created, and the marketisation of HE helps no-one.

[redsox78]

I am bemused when I talk to some academics who think everything will go back to normal in Sept... Hiring has basically stopped and I would expect to see a wave of redundancies and course closures after summer boards... (when marking and moderation done).

Yep, somewhere will be thrown to the dogs. There is NO hiring for I would say two years, easy. You're also correct that this is being kept as quiet as possible to people get on with getting this years results sorted.

I think anyone with a staff-student-ratio of less than about 25 is going to see reducancies or even course mergers. Also, VC's will use this to change the sector, and they will always 'dodge the raindrops'.

The one big hint is the 'resting' of the Teaching Excellence Framework. They are not parking that for good reasons (whatever hot garbage it was anyway). They are parking it because they know that what comes next will annoy students and parents. Students and staff will be asked to like-it-or-lump it, because if they don't there is nothing to replace it. But it will open some people up to what HE has really been like since fees came in.

To take one subject as an example, I genuinely wonder how History as a degree in UK universities gets through this. The way it is taught and researched is not designed for what comes next...

[Alansmithee]

I think anyone with a staff-student-ratio of less than about 25 is going to see reducancies or even course mergers. Also, VC's will use this to change the sector, and they will always 'dodge the raindrops'.

The one big hint is the 'resting' of the Teaching Excellence Framework. They are not parking that for good reasons (whatever hot garbage it was anyway).

My understanding is that it's being replaced with a couple of very simple metrics - Employability and progression - if a course does not hit a graduate employability level of 60% and progression of 80% you will not be able to access the student loan book for it. The benefit for government there is no additional admin or data collection because they already have this information and the tools to collect it.

[Cooper85]

We have kids at Uni and face similar issues, shite overpriced housing from greedy landlords who make it as difficult as possible for students to have even basic maintenance attended to. One small mercy from this crisis will be a shift in power from landlord to student. Bring it on.

It sounds like private student housing standards haven't changed since I left University and that was over 10 years ago!

It was an 8 bedroom house with everyone paying £250 cash a month to Landlord for thread bear carpets, broken showers, poor kitchens and blocked drains. I'd dread to think what he is charging students now.

It was great location though.

[redsox78]

My understanding is that it's being replaced with a couple of very simple metrics - Employability and progression - if a course does not hit a graduate employability level of 60% and progression of 80% you will not be able to access the student loan book for it. The benefit for government there is no additional admin or data collection because they already have this information and the tools to collect it.

.

Yes, looks like that, because RG's consistently have terrible student satisfaction and teaching feedback (as some justifiably concerned parents on this thread show!). Govt and RG's realised quite quickly that judging them on teaching quality was not going to go well :D

Hence why it'll basically be impossible to fail University in the future and the grade-inflation of the last 15 years will expand. At my place each year 'academic standards' invents new ways of not failing students. Everyone knows why. I'm an External Examiner for two places and each one has the same discussions each year. Oh and academic staff are blamed if students don't pass, should the uni schemes not work.

The employability thing is another mess, but the assumption of what course will and wont do well will surprise some. Again, History is buggered (FAR more so than meedja studies!).

Anyway, Goodharts law states (paraphrasing) that "when a metric becomes a target, it ceases to be a useful metric" and that is what all this is.

[redsox78]

It sounds like private student housing standards haven't changed since I left University and that was over 10 years ago!

It was an 8 bedroom house with everyone paying £250 cash a month to Landlord for thread bear carpets, broken showers, poor kitchens and blocked drains. I'd dread to think what he is charging students now.

It was great location though.

We once came home to one of our rooms being partitioned to make a new bedroom! Mid tenancy!

[Robsmck]

Student landlords getting a bad press here, but there are two sides to that coin. I have a friend who has a few houses in Belfast for student let and mostly the properties are basically trashed at the end of the rental year. It seems to be badge of honour to cause maximum damage, make losing the deposit worthwhile.
Being a private landlord is not a licence to print money.

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[eletos]

Agree with the above. My students are well looked after from a housing and general support perspective if needed, they are only young adults after all.

I know this won’t cut any mustard with most of the posters here but I have reduced the rent to 80% of what is due, even though some tenants are still in properties and there was no obligation on my part to do so, I still have to pay the mortgages. I don’t believe loans are being cut either.

Not all landlords are unscrupulous robbers, equally not all of your cherished offspring are perfect tenants, far from it.


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[justin44]

My wife and I have a flat we rent to students, we do it to make an income, it’s clean, well furnished and anything breaks, it’s fixed. The current students took a 12 month contract but went home to Greece with 4 months left on the contract, they asked if they could break the contract.

This left us two options.

1. Allow them and lose 4 months rental till next years students move in.
2. Rent it to locals for a 12 month contract and it’s one less flat for students.

[redsox78]

Not all landlords are unscrupulous robbers, equally not all of your cherished offspring are perfect tenants, far from it.

Both of these things are true, as I said, we have a list of approved landlords to benefit both the landlords and students in the hope there is some collective support for each other. And no way are students blameless, one of my part time jobs during my PhD was inspecting student flats in private halls; you'd be surprised how often we had to call RSPC for the pets they left behind (!).

Here is an interesting thing, I tend to find the students who are more responsible are the ones with less family financial support. Back in that Halls job; another phenomenon was the parents who came after the big shop to Wicks (showing my age) to get the paint to redo the room, so their kids would get the deposit back. I think those with less support perhaps know that no-one is coming to bail them out?

[redsox78]

My wife and I have a flat we rent to students, we do it to make an income, it’s clean, well furnished and anything breaks, it’s fixed. The current students took a 12 month contract but went home to Greece with 4 months left on the contract, they asked if they could break the contract.

This left us two options.

1. Allow them and lose 4 months rental till next years students move in.
2. Rent it to locals for a 12 month contract and it’s one less flat for students.

Not trying to score points; You might have to go for the second option as I would put normal term time starting right now at 60% likelihood at best, or perhaps only for 'practical' subjects. We are currently developing plans for both options.