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Thread: Audi Car PCP Mess...

  1. #1
    Master Thorien's Avatar
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    Audi Car PCP Mess...

    Can anyone help with this? Before all this madness started I signed an agreement with Audi for a new Q8.
    I'm now on furlough and finances are tighter than anticipated for the forseeable future.
    I was meant to pick the car up from an Audi dealership literally the day they closed their offices due to Covid19.
    Now though I'm not sure I'll be able to make the payments.
    So far I've paid a deposit and signed the finance application, but have not picked up the car or signed hand over documents etc.
    What are my options?
    Can I cancel now? Can Audi help by reducing the finance payments etc?
    I'm not sure how best to proceed on a legal basis.
    Any help appreciated.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by Thorien; 22nd April 2020 at 18:48.

  2. #2
    Master
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    I'm no legal expert, but surely if they have not released the car to you, they are in breach of contract and you can cancel?

  3. #3
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    Would the answer not be just reading what the terms say for whatever you’ve signed?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    I'm no legal expert, but surely if they have not released the car to you, they are in breach of contract and you can cancel?
    Not clear why car wasn't picked up.

    Did they close at the end of that day so OP could have picked it up?

  5. #5
    Master Thorien's Avatar
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    They closed the night before... Sorry should have clarified. Was meant to pick up next morning.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    Would the answer not be just reading what the terms say for whatever you’ve signed?
    This.
    OP have a read of T&Cs but also post on PistonHeads in Finance, Legal section as likely to be more relevant expertise there re frustration of contract.

    Have they not contacted you at all re delivery?

  7. #7
    Master Gavbaz's Avatar
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    I can help with this. Will PM my number.

    Gav

  8. #8
    Master
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    Contact the finance company, exercise your right to cancel it. You’re not in receipt of the goods, and in any event should still be within the cooling off period?

  9. #9
    Master Thorien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavbaz View Post
    I can help with this. Will PM my number.

    Gav
    Thanks will call in a bit

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tooks View Post
    Contact the finance company, exercise your right to cancel it. You’re not in receipt of the goods, and in any event should still be within the cooling off period?
    I'm not sure when the cooling period started or ends given current climate.

  10. #10
    Master Thorien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicken Pox View Post
    This.
    OP have a read of T&Cs but also post on PistonHeads in Finance, Legal section as likely to be more relevant expertise there re frustration of contract.

    Have they not contacted you at all re delivery?
    No they've been closed..

  11. #11
    Craftsman
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    In the past personally I've always completed the finance docs at the dealer during handover, the initial paperwork is just the application.

    You will however need to pay a fee that will be on the vehicle order form should you cancel the purchase so I dont think you can walk away scot free

  12. #12
    Grand Master mart broad's Avatar
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    Why not in the first instance contact the finance company
    Is the V5 in their name or your name?
    You could not collect the car because they had closed or you did not attempt to given your change in circumstance?
    Have you got a DD signed and in place?
    I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE

  13. #13
    Master Thorien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mart broad View Post
    Why not in the first instance contact the finance company
    Is the V5 in their name or your name?
    You could not collect the car because they had closed or you did not attempt to given your change in circumstance?
    Have you got a DD signed and in place?
    Finance paperwork not completed yet, I think this is done at handover.
    V5 would be in my name, but not issued yet as have not had handover of the car.
    Could not collect as they closed and have not re-opened yet.
    No DD in place as yet.

  14. #14
    Master
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    Sounds like you’ve maybe dodged a bullet with the timing of the closure and not having signed the final docs.

  15. #15
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    I would agree with the above, isn’t there a mandatory cooling off period of 14 days when you sign a finance agreement, just say you will invoke that if the circumstance comes up.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  16. #16
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    On another note I have a 1 year old RR Velar that still has 3 years left on the PCP and £48k of the balance remaining. I assume I can't just hand the car back citing COVID stuff (even though I am still employed) as I genuinely regret the purchase due to the cost of running the barsteward. Resale value will be less than the £48k still owed so I'd imagine they could try and come after me for the delta but realistically what can they do in this climate?

  17. #17
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    On another note I have a 1 year old RR Velar that still has 3 years left on the PCP and £48k of the balance remaining. I assume I can't just hand the car back citing COVID stuff (even though I am still employed) as I genuinely regret the purchase due to the cost of running the barsteward. Resale value will be less than the £48k still owed so I'd imagine they could try and come after me for the delta but realistically what can they do in this climate?
    So you want to use the dire circumstances of many people losing their jobs so you can get out of paying for something you stupidly overstretched for despite no change in your circumstances?

  18. #18
    Master thorpey69's Avatar
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    Even if you had signed the docs you'd still have a cooling off period,i don't think the V5 will be in your name as that would be a faux pas by the dealer doing that prior to payout.

  19. #19
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    On another note I have a 1 year old RR Velar that still has 3 years left on the PCP and £48k of the balance remaining. I assume I can't just hand the car back citing COVID stuff (even though I am still employed) as I genuinely regret the purchase due to the cost of running the barsteward. Resale value will be less than the £48k still owed so I'd imagine they could try and come after me for the delta but realistically what can they do in this climate?
    I think you can hand it back with no penalty once you are 50% into your agreement, seeing as you’re only 25% I don’t think it’s as simple as just handing it back

  20. #20
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    Morning Ryan

    I know that BMW finance require at least 50% of the contract value to have been paid ( not 50% of the term to have been reached ) to terminate the PCP. If less than 50% has been paid , they require you to pay the difference.

    Best Neil

    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    On another note I have a 1 year old RR Velar that still has 3 years left on the PCP and £48k of the balance remaining. I assume I can't just hand the car back citing COVID stuff (even though I am still employed) as I genuinely regret the purchase due to the cost of running the barsteward. Resale value will be less than the £48k still owed so I'd imagine they could try and come after me for the delta but realistically what can they do in this climate?

  21. #21
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    On another note I have a 1 year old RR Velar that still has 3 years left on the PCP and £48k of the balance remaining. I assume I can't just hand the car back citing COVID stuff (even though I am still employed) as I genuinely regret the purchase due to the cost of running the barsteward. Resale value will be less than the £48k still owed so I'd imagine they could try and come after me for the delta but realistically what can they do in this climate?
    You can't be serious Ryan.

  22. #22
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anton863 View Post
    So you want to use the dire circumstances of many people losing their jobs so you can get out of paying for something you stupidly overstretched for despite no change in your circumstances?
    Hang on. I didn't ask for judgemental knee-jerk reactions based ona misunderstanding of my question so if you want to do that the Bear Pit is the place. What I meant was if I returned it citing Covid as a desire to keep costs down I assume they would want me to pay the delta on what is owed (not that I was trying to do a swerve). My intention would be to pay what is owed as I don't want a nagative credit record but I wanted to know in reality in this climate what would credit companies be able to do about it anyway as loads of people will be handing back PCP cars, not paying loans and credit cards (heck I myself would be 5 months of unemployment away from such a scenario and I suspect most people less than that). In this climate with government bailouts and money printing what realistically are these creditors going to be able to do about it that's all the question was

  23. #23
    Craftsman
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    That is exactly what I thought your question was initially.

    I'll leave it anyway, as you say may not be the place for such discussions.

  24. #24
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    @ryan
    Pretty sure that all mortgage companies, finance etc are doing a payment holidays of minimum 3 months. There is no penalty’s or blips on credit reports. Even if the car finance people won’t help your mortgage people will so maybe just shuffle your finances around a bit till it’s all sorted.


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  25. #25
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    Hi Ryan

    They will request payment of minimum 50% of contract value to terminate whether you keep the car until that point or hand the keys back now IMHO.

    Best Neil

    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Hang on. I didn't ask for judgemental knee-jerk reactions based ona misunderstanding of my question so if you want to do that the Bear Pit is the place. What I meant was if I returned it citing Covid as a desire to keep costs down I assume they would want me to pay the delta on what is owed (not that I was trying to do a swerve). My intention would be to pay what is owed as I don't want a nagative credit record but I wanted to know in reality in this climate what would credit companies be able to do about it anyway as loads of people will be handing back PCP cars, not paying loans and credit cards (heck I myself would be 5 months of unemployment away from such a scenario and I suspect most people less than that). In this climate with government bailouts and money printing what realistically are these creditors going to be able to do about it that's all the question was

  26. #26
    Master thorpey69's Avatar
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    Even if you had signed the docs you'd still have a cooling off period,i don't think the V5 will be in your name as that would be a faux pas by the dealer doing that prior to payout.

  27. #27
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    Considering that the majority of cars are sat as expensive ornaments on the owners' driveways at the moment, doesn`t it make people question the sense in paying so much money per month just to own a flashy car? whichever way you look at it, they're expensive items, are they really worth the money?

    Maybe I`ve just reached the stage in life where I don`t care how old my car is, the fact that it was bought and paid for years ago and is costing virtually nothing on depreciation is heartening.

    I would think hard before taking on the commitment of an expensive vehicle.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by fordystar View Post
    @ryan
    Pretty sure that all mortgage companies, finance etc are doing a payment holidays of minimum 3 months. There is no penalty’s or blips on credit reports. Even if the car finance people won’t help your mortgage people will so maybe just shuffle your finances around a bit till it’s all sorted.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    How will that help?

  29. #29
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fordystar View Post
    @ryan
    Pretty sure that all mortgage companies, finance etc are doing a payment holidays of minimum 3 months. There is no penalty’s or blips on credit reports. Even if the car finance people won’t help your mortgage people will so maybe just shuffle your finances around a bit till it’s all sorted.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Thanks. Just to say I don't need to do this for the forseeable (touch wood) but my query was if I decided to hand it back what would I be expected to pay and the implications for not doing so. I'll keep it regardless for now as the lack of mileage at least I guess is keeping the residual balance a bit higher. Although all in (including insurance and residential parking fees) the car has cost me £950 per month (excluding petrol) and it has driven a total of 5,839 miles since I bought it in March last year! Would have been cheaper to get an Uber everywhere I reckon! For sure next car will be MUCH cheaper as this whole virus episode has made me reprioritise where I spend my money and on what.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Thanks. Just to say I don't need to do this for the forseeable (touch wood) but my query was if I decided to hand it back what would I be expected to pay and the implications for not doing so. I'll keep it regardless for now as the lack of mileage at least I guess is keeping the residual balance a bit higher. Although all in (including insurance and residential parking fees) the car has cost me £950 per month (excluding petrol) and it has driven a total of 5,839 miles! Would have been cheaper to gen an Uber everywhere I reckon! For sure next car will be MUCH cheaper as this whole virus episode has made me reprioritise where I spend my money and on what.
    Sorry mate, my fault, didn’t read post fully. My mates got one of those velars pretty nasty running costs and depreciation. I’d call them. In these unprecedented times I reckon everyone’s going to be cut some slack. Won’t hurt to ask.


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  31. #31
    Master Templogin's Avatar
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    If the worst came to the worst OP, would they change it for a car within your means?

  32. #32
    Master jukeboxs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    I assume I can't just hand the car back citing COVID stuff (even though I am still employed) as I genuinely regret the purchase due to the cost of running the barsteward. Resale value will be less than the £48k still owed so I'd imagine they could try and come after me for the delta but realistically what can they do in this climate?
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Hang on. I didn't ask for judgemental knee-jerk reactions based ona misunderstanding of my question
    How you can construe the response as a misunderstanding based on your original comment is beyond me. I'm actually surprised you would try to avoid your obligations on the grounds you regret your decision.

  33. #33
    Master
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    The correct term is "voluntary termination" in the case of wishing to hand a car back before the end of the contract.

    You have to have paid >=50% of the total borrowed, or at least pay that amount to bring it to 50%.

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by flame View Post
    Morning Ryan

    I know that BMW finance require at least 50% of the contract value to have been paid ( not 50% of the term to have been reached ) to terminate the PCP. If less than 50% has been paid , they require you to pay the difference.

    Best Neil

    Yep ….its 50% of the payments, not the term.

    My wife's RR Evoque is in horrific negative equity & we reckon the 50% breakpoint will be at month 47 out of the 48 month PCP !

    Spoke to a guy at Audi & he said that could be right, as Q3 on a PCP were similar & that the ability to do the Voluntary quit couldn't be done until around 46-47 months in

  35. #35
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    Hi

    I'm sure they would , IF you pay/re-finance the outstanding contract value !

    My 535d has done it's shirt over the last 3yrs with a brexit/covid combi....£20k balance on the PCP with a PX value of £16.5k and decreasing as I type

    The BMW dealer I bought it from suggested the other week that if I wanted , he could get me into another deal as it is quite ' popular ' at the moment. I asked him based on what figure , the PX or PCP balance....of course you know the answer....I've only got 3x months left on the contract too - madness !

    Best Neil

    Quote Originally Posted by Templogin View Post
    If the worst came to the worst OP, would they change it for a car within your means?

  36. #36
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jukeboxs View Post
    How you can construe the response as a misunderstanding based on your original comment is beyond me. I'm actually surprised you would try to avoid your obligations on the grounds you regret your decision.
    The question wasn't around avoiding my obligations it was on clarifying what those obligations are. Anyway sorry to hijack the OPs thread with what I erroneously thought was a quick question.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by boundary546 View Post
    I think you can hand it back with no penalty once you are 50% into your agreement, seeing as you’re only 25% I don’t think it’s as simple as just handing it back
    Yes, we terminated an agreement on a Jag after 50% of the contract value been paid. If its on PCP this is probably more than half way through the term due to the balloon payments - ours was 2 years odd into a 3 year deal.


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  38. #38
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    PCP...The new PPi.

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    The question wasn't around avoiding my obligations it was on clarifying what those obligations are. Anyway sorry to hijack the OPs thread with what I erroneously thought was a quick question.
    Given you seem to spend all day Googling Covid 19, I’m surprised you needed to ask such a simple question here. If it genuinely was just a simple query couldn’t you have done a quick Internet search, rather than hijack a thread and risk exactly this misunderstanding?

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
    PCP...The new PPi.
    Not really, has it been mis-sold? Been mis-bought maybe.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Not really, has it been mis-sold? Been mis-bought maybe.
    I’m just waiting for the TV adverts..... Have you been sold PCP?, Did you realise you’d spend a load of money on a rapidly depreciating item that’d be worth nowt in 3 years? and own nothing at the end of it? we can get your money back, call now to speak to one of our advisors

  42. #42
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steviefleming View Post
    My wife's RR Evoque is in horrific negative equity & we reckon the 50% breakpoint will be at month 47 out of the 48 month PCP !

    Spoke to a guy at Audi & he said that could be right, as Q3 on a PCP were similar & that the ability to do the Voluntary quit couldn't be done until around 46-47 months in
    I think you've been told porkies. The balloon balance doesn't matter it's the PCP term. At 50% through this balance you can voluntary terminate as is your right. I think what you're looking at is finance remaining Vs the cars worth on a depreciation chart (where you exit negative equity)

    If your payments are for argument's sake £100 per month for 48 months then at month 24 (or by paying 24x£100) you can be shot of it. Excess milage and admin costs may apply. Same applies to Ryan.

    @OP - thank god you didn't sign. Write to VWFS and the dealership by email cc'ing yourself and tell them you're not collecting. They will understand and you won't be the only deal they've had fall out.

  43. #43
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    I think you've been told porkies. The balloon balance doesn't matter it's the PCP term. At 50% through this balance you can voluntary terminate as is your right. I think what you're looking at is finance remaining Vs the cars worth on a depreciation chart (where you exit negative equity)

    If your payments are for argument's sake £100 per month for 48 months then at month 24 (or by paying 24x£100) you can be shot of it. Excess milage and admin costs may apply. Same applies to Ryan.

    @OP - thank god you didn't sign. Write to VWFS and the dealership by email cc'ing yourself and tell them you're not collecting. They will understand and you won't be the only deal they've had fall out.
    That's interesting. Does the finance part not include the balloon payment then? In my case that amount is £33k. If I am 13 months into a 48 month agreement of £x per month plus balloon are you saying once I've paid 24 x £x monthly payment I can be shot of it irrespective of the £33k baloon?

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
    I’m just waiting for the TV adverts..... Have you been sold PCP?, Did you realise you’d spend a load of money on a rapidly depreciating item that’d be worth nowt in 3 years? and own nothing at the end of it? we can get your money back, call now to speak to one of our advisors
    Might not be so far from the truth.
    All of a sudden taking PCP deals on cars you couldn't normally afford seems less of a good deal.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    That's interesting. Does the finance part not include the balloon payment then? In my case that amount is £33k. If I am 13 months into a 48 month agreement of £x per month plus balloon are you saying once I've paid 24 x £x monthly payment I can be shot of it irrespective of the £33k baloon?
    No, the balloon payment forms part of the total amount due under the PCP agreement.

    If the total amount due under the agreement including the balloon is, for example, £80k then you can voluntary terminate at the £40k point. That will likely be much further along the agreement than month 24.

    For most PCPs where balloons and interest have been set realistically, half way should be around 30 to 36 months in a 48 month agreement.

    The total amount due will be on the finance paperwork, it will also state what the amount you’ll have to pay is to be able to terminate it at the 50% paid date.

  46. #46
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    I don’t know the answer to this so just wondering - all the posts here about cooling off period, is that applicable to this type of deal?

    Reason I’m asking is that on most of the PCP and CH deals that I’ve taken out, I’ve spec’d the car personally - engine size, colour, add ons etc. That’s then built at the factory and shipped over. Surely as most of them are bespoke I’d be bound to take the deal? Otherwise if I’d ordered hand stitched purple leather seats with sky blue pink spots that costs an extra 5k and then just decide to exercise my cooling off rights, the car dealership are screwed? My current X3 was in a batch of around 30 that were shipped to the uk so I had to pick whatever was available at a good deal, or bespoke the order and pay a lot more.

    OP good luck and let us know how you get on.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Hang on. I didn't ask for judgemental knee-jerk reactions based ona misunderstanding of my question so if you want to do that the Bear Pit is the place. What I meant was if I returned it citing Covid as a desire to keep costs down I assume they would want me to pay the delta on what is owed (not that I was trying to do a swerve). My intention would be to pay what is owed as I don't want a nagative credit record but I wanted to know in reality in this climate what would credit companies be able to do about it anyway as loads of people will be handing back PCP cars, not paying loans and credit cards (heck I myself would be 5 months of unemployment away from such a scenario and I suspect most people less than that). In this climate with government bailouts and money printing what realistically are these creditors going to be able to do about it that's all the question was
    In history there have been plenty of catastrophic (for some people) events that have been outside of peoples control but have severely affected their finances.

    The Great Depression, the negative equity housing market, Black Monday. Creditors will still pursue debt where it is owed and no bankruptcy or other protections in force. Only Governments appear to be able to get out dept and/or print more money...

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    Considering that the majority of cars are sat as expensive ornaments on the owners' driveways at the moment, doesn`t it make people question the sense in paying so much money per month just to own a flashy car? whichever way you look at it, they're expensive items, are they really worth the money?

    Maybe I`ve just reached the stage in life where I don`t care how old my car is, the fact that it was bought and paid for years ago and is costing virtually nothing on depreciation is heartening.

    I would think hard before taking on the commitment of an expensive vehicle.
    I don't think owning a "Flashy" car has ever needed to make sense!!! :0)

    Financial crisis' come and go and this event won't be any different IMO

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by fordystar View Post
    Sorry mate, my fault, didn’t read post fully. My mates got one of those velars pretty nasty running costs and depreciation. I’d call them. In these unprecedented times I reckon everyone’s going to be cut some slack. Won’t hurt to ask.


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    At least there will be a plus for some as after this event there may well be a lot of bargain priced Velars around...

  50. #50
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tooks View Post
    No, the balloon payment forms part of the total amount due under the PCP agreement.

    If the total amount due under the agreement including the balloon is, for example, £80k then you can voluntary terminate at the £40k point. That will likely be much further along the agreement than month 24.

    For most PCPs where balloons and interest have been set realistically, half way should be around 30 to 36 months in a 48 month agreement.

    The total amount due will be on the finance paperwork, it will also state what the amount you’ll have to pay is to be able to terminate it at the 50% paid date.
    Ok thanks. In this case there will never be 50% of the finance paid off as the balloon payment of £33k is more than 50% of what the car price was let alone the finance element after deposit.

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