This Rolex hype has bitten deeply with a lot of people. When they are offered a "hard to get" piece they still feel a strong compulsion to buy it (and I include myself in this) not perhaps fully appreciating that things are in the process of changing, significantly.
Who knows, in two or three years time you could be standing outside a Goldsmiths with a window full of the latest sports models all available today at list price - like it was years ago.
I hope it happens.
It was only a few months ago(now seems like a lifetime ago) people were having FOMO of Rolex putting their prices up 5% and buying anything the agent had available(like the Gold yachtmaster that ended up on s/c that was bought on fomo that they couldn't really afford).
Now people are declining SD43/rootbeer (obv grey dealers are paying well under list and pre owned ones fall below list price, so demand now dries up)
Now people are declining Subs.
Anyone want to hazard a guess how long before people start telling agents they no longer want a GMT pepsi/ batgirl when they receive the call?
It is interesting times for sure. I think if WoS had offered me a GMT i would have struggled to turn that down as really want one of those (As apposed to the non date sub) and I would more likely want to keep that one.
The chap who said he was the branch manager did say in a message to me that i would have to show previous history of buying Rolex watches, of which the non date could be one of them in order to secure a GMT.
I checked on eBay and it doesn't look like 114060's are going quickly at the moment.
It’s certainly going to be interesting in coming months/years what with all the wishful thinking about seeing pieces back in the windows of our local ADs
But I think you are all forgetting the one major driver for these pieces in recent years has been the emerging markets China and others who crave these perceived luxury goods..
Are the millions of tourists going to continue to come to the UK with their very favourable exchange rates let alone the 20% VAT return on all purchases
On a recent trip into London to collect my latest purchase in the private collection rooms they were full of families from the East buying not one but several pieces that were simply not available to you and I and their spend was mind blowing.
Yes short term ADs are shifting stock clearly held back from us to release some cash flow but long term I see business as usual with just a correction on the overheated overhyped pieces which was happening before the C-19 struck..
Only time will tell where it all ends up and I hope the hype subsides but I won’t be holding my breath..
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Alan Hazel in Facebook groups. He’s also famous for listing Ryan’s Chnr sold on in SC here. He’s been buying sports models and selling them for a quick grand or two profit. Has plenty of worshippers/customers in Facebook group praising his ‘exceptional’ service by delivering in this climate.
I’m just an observer!
I’ve been following his listings for several months now and you are right he does seem to have a faithful following and has built up a good name on the Forums having been a dealer for many years and comes across as trustworthy it makes you wonder is he getting stock direct from ADs he boasts he can get anything and in the past insinuated that pieces were coming direct from these sources..ie A preferred client. I guess happy to pay ADs a drink to obtain these watches..
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited by SteveM112; 21st April 2020 at 21:27.
I've tried it on quite a few times in WF along with the D-Blue while wearing my 114060 ND Sub and I think it's such a good watch. I could do without the Cyclops and would like something extra for the bigger case (DSSD clasp, higher depth rating) but overall I can't wait. Will probably need to sell something when it comes in so hopefully I don't get done over on that.
I think we'll see significant changes on the Rolex front, economies world-wide are going to be hit by the coronavirus crisis, the number of people who could afford to pay over the odds for the so-called 'hot watches' will be significantly fewer and that'll be enough to tip the supply/demand situation back towards normality. It'll also take those out to make quick money out of the game.
I think the world will be a different place for a while, items like classic cars and high-end watches (ie stuff we don't really need) will be hit and it'll be the expensive stuff that takes the biggest fall. Can`t say it bothers me, I paid a strongish price for a used OP36 last year and I guess that may be worth slightly less, but not enough to worry me. If people are that concerned about the value and potential losses on a watch maybe they shouldn't have bought it?
The problem is does anyone really care apart from those who can’t get a watch, are Rolex concerned I’m not sure they are..
The brand has never been more popular with even the Datejust now being a wait list piece..
It would be easy for Rolex to buy up these pieces and do a paper chase and who was the original buyer..but why would they,
We all know the high street jeweller who lost their franchise being rumoured watches were going out the back door to these so called “preferred clients “
The smaller AD is just maximising his profits on watches that are not as available as you may think.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I doubt it if I’m honest. It seems like he has a very good ‘rate of stockturn’. New watches available every day or every few days which is sold on Facebook.
What I would be more interested in though, is his company’s accounts when he files his annual return. Wonder how many of these sales actually go on there ;)
Not directly from ADs (unless they backdate the warranty cards intentionally, he does have some old watches). I think he gets his stock from flippers and people who are desperate for cash - the volume does make you wonder, but he doesn’t have a lot of competition in that Facebook group.
As far as I know, he’s offering people £9k straight for Batmans (as an example) and quickly flipping it on for £11k ish. And it seems like there are plenty of people both willing to sell to/buy from him.
ADs selling direct to the Grey market and preferred clients is nothing new only difference in recent years the ADs are selling at a premium not at discounts which in turn are passed on to the public..
Until very recent times your AD didn’t need your money he had lots of willing preferred outlets willing to pay a premium for these hyped pieces.. now the grey market is in limbo ADs are now calling customers on their imaginary wait lists offering maybe a promise or genuine held back stock just trying to stay afloat..
The warranty card isn’t an issue the cards ADs register with Rolex on the day of sale for the 5 year warranty to begin and with random serial numbers make it impossible to date them accurately.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited by SteveM112; 22nd April 2020 at 08:57.
^ So it’s OK for an AD to do this but individuals are warned that if they do this there will be repercussions in terms of ever being able to buy any new pieces? Makes no sense to me at all.
I think most people know and realise that AD's have been selling watches out the back door to preferred customers / mates to make a quick profit for the past 4 - 5 years.
If there is no longer the demand for these 'hyped' models with people tightening there belts then the flippers will be gone and AD's will have to put the models in the windows.
When you look at the number of in demand models within the grey market its obvious there never was any shortage of these watches coming through AD's it was just where they were allocated.
Last edited by boring_sandwich; 22nd April 2020 at 09:16.
I hope you are right and people have woken up to the appalling way your AD had been treating even its most loyal of customers.. and their complete manipulation of the markets with false rumour and hype all fuelled by short term greed.
the whole act of withholding warranty cards to create the illusion that they actually are concerned about flippers a market which they themselves had created and happily supplied until now.
And now the grey market is in limbo who do they turn to trying to stay afloat.. yep the gullible Joe Public..offering them a promise of a piece in normal circumstances they wouldn’t be considered for with their imaginary wait lists.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Just had the call for a Submariner Date, I wanted a non-date version back in August 2019. Don't really want the Date version but if I did it's in stock.
It's a perfectly reasonable timescale normally, but if you're offered an opportunity to buy a specific watch from stock, failing which it'll be offered to the next person on the list, it's way too long to pass the opportunity down the line. Which leads me to think it's not a watch from stock which is being offered. That, and the fact that elsewhere I've seen it quoted that you can collect within 30 days of the store reopening; that's plenty of time for a delivery from Switzerland.
If it's not existing stock then there's absolutely no way you have any claim on a physical watch if WoS were to become insolvent. Together with the uncertainty over s75 protection (and it's not clear-cut, no matter how much people want it to be - this isn't WoS's usual payment processor, as far as I'm aware) anyone paying 50-100% of the price is taking a risk with their money. I'm not suggesting that WoS are insolvent, but this isn't over yet and no company is immune from cashflow difficulties.
I don't really go on any of the other forums bar the vintage Rolex but is this practice going on in other countries?
If so then possibly Rolex themselves offering up a promise of more stock being released to ADs to keep cashflow going.
My credit card company have just said I'm covered. I can pay now and even if shops are closed for 12 months and then WoS go bust the CC company will issue me a refund and chase WoS afterwards. 12 months isn't the limit, just an example.
To the person who commented above about Adyen not being WoS' usual payment processor please don't fill threads with total BS. Unless you know who handles payments for WoS in store (and if it's different at their different companies, especially web Vs in store) you shouldn't be throwing out nonsense with a "as far as I'm aware" caveat -- it's pure ignorance. Adyen also supply POS card machines and retailers don't have to have the same payment processor in store as they do online.
Last edited by wileeeeeey; 22nd April 2020 at 12:40.
Fascinating stuff. Looking forward to some conversations with a couple of dealers when everything reopens. Funds are a problem though as wife’s business has disintegrated over the last few weeks.
What none of us knows is what Rolex will do in this environment if a recession happens. They have created an incredible brand and desirability in a very short space of time. They’ve had kudos for years but in the last 3 or 4 years they’ve raised their image incredibly - people paying over double RRP for a Daytona, or hulk or Pepsi is staggering.
Rolex don’t need to make money like a normal business with shareholders. For all any of us knows they may well hold back production of the ss professional models for a year or two to keep the demand up. Keep the allure going so even if demand drops, certain models will still help create the ‘I want a Rolex and will pay over the odds for it’. Right now it’s all guesswork, but like them or loathe them, they’ve created an amazing image.
Im not sure all the Rolex retailers would agree with with what you have written. Rolex have asked Authorised dealers to spend 100k+ on a dedicated Rolex area in each showroom and WoS Group (Goldsmiths , Mappin & webb) have expanded and grown quite a bit in recent years where now Rolex sales now account for 50% of their turnover. Wos group control a huge % of the UK Rolex market and have large say in Rolex distribution. Rolex cutting supply would have a massive detrimental effect on these business, No business would want to deliberately harm their distribution channel during an economic crisis.
very true that Preston's in Leeds moved to very expensive unit in Victorian quarters plus nice big pile for the a new boutique kit out won't be cheap.
hate to think what the moving to the new unit and shop fit out cost plus they still have the old one commercial Street
Sent from my SM-A530F using Tapatalk
Be more than that, much more
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Back on topic, I also had “the call” a couple of days ago. To help allay some of the scam concerns (nothing wrong with being cautious, especially these days), here’s what I know:
- The call I received was from the GM of the branch where I registered my interest. I met that person few weeks before lockdown, who is well aware of my purchase history & interest in watches.
- Although the call was from a different mobile number to the one on the business card I hold, a subsequent email was in reply to one of my past emails to their work email address (same as the one on business card).
- The email with payment link came directly from the central/head office. That email address is also legitimate.
- The payment link is secure and doesn’t look dodgy at all. It has all the correct info and logos.
- The payment is considered a “deposit” to guarantee/secure the watch and can be refunded at any time if I change my mind.
- I was assured that once I pay, a physical watch will be allocated to me and it’s mine to collect when the store re-opens. No doubts about further waiting for the watch or chances of it going to someone else. This confirms to me that the watch is already in their possession (either at branch or at some central location).
- I was told because I am choosing to pay by credit card, the purchase will be covered by Section 75 if they went under.
- I called my credit card company, asked them the same question and got the same reply. Regardless of value of purchase and duration of wait.
- They do not have access to the showrooms/storage so can’t send me a picture of the actual watch or serial number. It isn’t their policy to send picture of warranty card (even if they had access) as it won’t be filled until I collect. It is quite possible they already had it before lockdown and have only offered to me now after others have refused. Although I was told mine was the first name that came to their mind once they found an available allocation, I am neither naive nor easily flattered.
- Apparently they aren’t allowed to send watches by post/courier as Rolex require them to fill out and activate warranty in the customer’s presence.
Now I’m not going to pretend that I am completely at peace with making an expensive (to me) purchase at a time like this, which is why I am using my 5 day thinking period. However, given that I have waited 2 years and not planning to flip at least in the short term (if at all), I am more inclined towards pulling the trigger than not.