Reply With QuoteThanks.Originally Posted by SteveM112
A lot of speculative scaremongering going on.
I believe WOS is not out to scam and will not con/renege etc.
I wouldn’t pay and wait but only because I am very impatient. If I pay for something I can’t wait to receive it.
That’s why I find kickstarters or deposits difficult.
Thanks.
For what it's worth I bought a DJ28 from the same AD between Christmas and New Year. The watch was in stock at one of their other stores and would be transferred in for me so I paid in full to avoid the price rise. My receipt was 100% deposit - no serial number or "full payment". When I collected the watch towards the end of Jan I was issued with a new receipt with all the details on like nornal. This is no different to that in my eyes. I didn't bark asking for the serial number as proof of ownership etc.
You can say "I would ask for..." but the reality is they're a large company with set processes and they aren't going to accommodate your specific requests. If they were working from the shop and the watch was also in the shop it would be different, but they're not.
We are living in very different times from when you mention I also picked up a piece just before the price rise and having some proof the watch existed wasn’t a concern at all.and wouldn’t of even crossed my mind ..why would it ??.
People have got to do what they personally feel happy with pointing out simple ways of conducting business is not wild scaremongering it is basic common sense so both parties feel confident with the transaction.
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Regarding payment of deposits on Rolex, Goldsmiths had always told me that even after paying a deposit you would still have to pay the higher amount if there was a price increase before the watch was collected and registered.
Your comments leave me wondering which is true - or if they now simply want to have their cake and eat it?
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I don't disagree re concerns and yes these are different times but the process is still the same on their end. They don't have a new magical COVID-19 process meaning they can now suddenly give serial numbers due to the COVID-19 software update on their tills. The point is it's up to each individual to decide if they feel the risk is low enough to pay up or high enough to back out. The scare mongering comments in this thread aren't based on fact and are being typed straight out of a few rear ends.
Surely that's purely because you can put a deposit on a Daytona and wait 8 years? I'm sure a few people have cried when the RRP isn't the same as when they placed their deposit. I think if the watches are genuinely in stock this will be different. It's often referred to as the "landing price" I guess the debate is if the watches class as 'landed' in the DC or the shop.
No it was on a 36mm Explorer and later on a Datejust. This was long before the current waiting list nonsense started to boost the perceived brand exclusivity.
Strange how the previously inflexible rules now seem to be so malleable!
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My wife was on business in Amsterdam 2 day trip. I am on 2 lists for an SD43 as we speak. She popped into the airport AD at my request and asked a few questions. They had received a delivery one hour earlier and they were about to go in the window. Sub no date, SD43, Explorer and ExplorerII and a few DateJusts. 45 minutes later she is on a flight home with the SD43 @ £8200.
It is the ultimate daily divers watch. Stunning piece with the red text and matt dial with perfect proportions. Divers extension and gas escape provide great conversations and it sits beautifully on my wrist. I had it fitted at RSC on the following day who moved a few links around / removed one and I have kept the divers extension in place. Watch is super comfortable and is a daily keeper.
Unfortunately the process is very much not the same..
Never before have we been asked to pay full price on something that may or may not exist..
These are unprecedented times and some are clearly taking C-19 more seriously than others..
Any company should IMO be doing everything in their power if they are asking for full pre payment to give their customers confidence and some reassurance in what they are purchasing..these are considered sums of money or have some become a little blasé when dropping £10K+on a watch they don’t really want anyway.
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Well done.
Did you/she have to pay any duty bringing it into the country?
What a great pickup and a great watch .. I’m still trying to get a JC but No luck as yet..
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Looking forward to visiting the ADs when this situation resolved and checking my list position then doing the big reveal.
Choose another fantasy watch....
Yaaaawn.
JC is a monster too big for me from a depth perspective. I have tried it on a couple of times. Its wearable but too large to be practical on a daily basis in my opinion.
SD43 is the perfect divers watch with great presence and more features than the sub which is worn by every Tom Dick and Harry.
Am I missing something
Why are you on 2 ADs lists for SD43s when your wife already picked one up at Amsterdam?
The quandary in this thread about paying a large deposit for watches actually seems quite a simple scenario to comprehend...
If you've paid a 100% deposit to WOS (or other large rewatch retailer) and they survive the Covid 19 lockdown, you'll get your watch when their stores re-open. If their normal business practice is only to confirm serial number upon handover of the watch, this won't change now.
WOS will know exactly how many of each model they have in stock, be it individual stores or a central distribution centre. I doubt they would be claiming watches as physical stock when they don't have them in their possession. They would be creating a whole world of trouble for themselves re litigation from buyers, bad public relations and disgruntlement from suppliers like Rolex.
However, if WOS don't survive the Covid 19 lockdown they'll take your deposit with them into administration. You'll never get the watch, whatever reassurances or receipts they have provided. You will "probably" get your money back if paid by credit card, but very unlikely if paid by other means as you'll be at the back of a long queue of creditors.
I suppose by conducting the transaction as 100% deposit, each watch remains on the WOS books (until completion and physical handover to the purchaser). As such, it could be used as an asset to pay back creditors in event of WOS going into administration (with creditors much larger than individual purchasers coming first). This wouldn't be the same if the transaction was an actual purchase complete with serial number etc. In that scenario WOS would just be "holding" the watch for the individual purchaser until they could hand it over to them - it wouldn't be on their books any longer.
Bigger companies than WOS have already gone into administration this year, and many more will follow over the next 6 to 9 months as the economic outlook worsens.
What WOS are doing at the moment seems to be a simple effort to maintain some cashflow with minimal effort or transfer of goods on their side.
That's the reality as I see it. So you make your choice.
All that said, if WOS (or any other AD) has been involved in questionable practices which have lead to artificial price inflation (as suggested in this thread), I don't know why anyone would want to buy from them anyway.
Last edited by CamCG; 25th April 2020 at 14:24.
Funny how we all see things so differently. The one thing that struck me when I tried one on was that the proportions were its biggest fault!! Looked like an old school SD that has gone under a steam roller!
I have had the SD43 for 6 weeks not been into an AD
But I think plenty would say that's it one of the very best big watches out there on a not-so-big wrist, if that makes sense. The bracelet is so well-designed that it's extraordinarily well balanced.
I have seen people who agree with me but I am pretty sure I’m in the minority!
My own experience with the SD43...when you handle it, i.e. hold in your hand it has some heft to it...in a nice way. It is solid! But yes it can feel large.
Soon as on the wrist and adjusted correctly. Not loosely fitting. It is simply wonderful. I have an average wrist size. I feel it fits better than the sub. The sub is great and always will be, but when i put it back on now after wearing the 43, the sub feels like a toy! The 43 proportions are nicer too IMO. The larger case works well with the lugs and you lose that maxi case effect. I feel in 10-15 years time we will look back at the SD43 as a classic.
ETA: I had a black bay for a while. That felt larger and bulkier on my wrist than the 43!
This is the best summary of the situation that I’ve seen here or any other forum
At the end of the day, WOS are doing what they’re doing for their own benefit and anyone who doesn’t like it or is not happy with the risk of parting with the deposit is fully entitled to walk away.
I for one would probably have walked away for anything less than a Daytona but fortunately or unfortunately as some might think, I was offered a piece that I’d waited a long time for so I went ahead.
I minimised my risk by paying with a CC and had further reassurance in writing that the watch is physically in WOS’ possession and is allocated to me and me only.
I hope for my sake, others who have put in a deposit and also for other enthusiasts that WOS is able to ride the wave because as UK’s biggest Rolex retailer, it would be a mammoth task to replace their presence if they went under.
So have they offered you a daytona? if so, that is pretty impressive and well done! I think if they offer me a GMT I would struggle to say no to it.This is the best summary of the situation that I’ve seen here or any other forum
At the end of the day, WOS are doing what they’re doing for their own benefit and anyone who doesn’t like it or is not happy with the risk of parting with the deposit is fully entitled to walk away.
I for one would probably have walked away for anything less than a Daytona but fortunately or unfortunately as some might think, I was offered a piece that I’d waited a long time for so I went ahead.
I minimised my risk by paying with a CC and had further reassurance in writing that the watch is physically in WOS’ possession and is allocated to me and me only.
I hope for my sake, others who have put in a deposit and also for other enthusiasts that WOS is able to ride the wave because as UK’s biggest Rolex retailer, it would be a mammoth task to replace their presence if they went under.
In accounting terms, as long as the ‘risk and rewards’ of the watch has not passed to the customer, the watch will always be on WoS books as inventory regardless of whether a serial number was provided. If WoS do decide to deliver/post watches (unlikely), then it would depend on whether the shipping terms are CIF or FoB, which would still require the watch to leave the WoS warehouse for it to be ‘no longer in books’.
From a WoS standpoint all they’ve benefited is from cash flow (as you’ve pointed) and some Deferred Revenue (guaranteed sales) when this is over.
WoS have indeed had some questionable practices but I’m not sure if it’s fair they contribute a huge amount to the inflation of Rolex prices. It is a global market after all, with tourists/dealers able to move stocks around if they see opportunities for arbitrage profit.
ADs in other countries will of course have their own practices which no doubt has the same goal - to create perceived value. Safe to say if we look ‘up the chain’, it’s Rolex themselves who are creating the current situation.
With all that said I’m still a happy WoS customer and I still love my Rolex. Ha!
Still waiting for the call on my Rolex 126600.
I don’t currently have a job but I’m sure I’ll find a way to fund the purchase if it happens....
That's the spirit!
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Yep, Had an email and follow up call today for the SD43mm. Spoke at length with the branch manager.
After speaking with Mrs D i've emailed him with my concerns about paying in full and asking him to ring me to discuss it tomorrow.
Ultimately, if that's the terms then that's what it is. I'll ring the CC issuer tomorrow also to hopefully confirm that I'm covered. Going to try for 50% deposit. My CC is only 8.1k limit!!
Don’t know what it is about SD43’s being available everywhere or we’re all speaking to the same AD.
I asked an independent AD if they are still continuing to get watches but they said no, but an SD was available if I wanted it. I declined as I’m not after a watch that I don’t want to wear. Tried one on in Paris and didn’t like it, too bulky plus too much like a Sub (IMO)
Is everyone else getting them offered through WOS?
Is it the same watch or do you think they had a batch in before they closed?
Not sure what volume these guys are moving or how they are distributed but I’m sure it’s very different to my perception from 12/13 years ago.
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I wonder if they are mark 1 or Mark 2 dial watches, appears to be a lot of SD43s??
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Mark 1 dials are long gone. The flood probably relates to the Red Sea dweller dial being discontinued after three year run.
Watches do seem to come in batches eg loads of batgirls 3 months ago.
That did cross my mind too. The red dial SD43 will not be around forever...could be that it is being discontinued and WoS had a large batch of watches in before Basel was supposed to happen.
I remember this happening last year with the BLNR oyster - quite a few incoming just before it was discontinued.
As we are still in the EU it will have been in free circulation when it was sold so no taxes to be paid and there isn't duty on watches.
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As we are still in the EU it will have been in free circulation when it was sold so no taxes to be paid and there isn't duty on watches.
Here’s a trick I’ve used in the past.
A few days before making your purchase, make a payment to your credit card (in your case £1,200). This will show you in £1200 credit with an available balance of £9,300.... make the transaction and it’ll go through and all within your limit/no extra fees etc.
That's an option although I see no reason for the issuer to decline raising my limit. It wouldn't hurt in the long run I suppose, should I want to buy another. I do have a couple of cards but wouldn't know the security details of them.
I've pre-loaded my CC before, albeit years ago, when travelling abroad as it is fee free for foreign purchases and gives the going market exchange rate at the time. I imagine that most CCs are the same now, though.
That’s the reason I’ve done it before, for free foreign transactions.
Without wanting to derail the thread I took a slightly different approach.
With American Express currently offering 2 points per £, I paid with that which means I get c. 18000 points for the transaction vs. 4500 points on my credit card!
Also the 18000 points give me the same number of Avios/ 36000 Hilton Points with the AMEX but would only give me 2250 points when redeem with my MasterCard for example.
At least this way I’m getting a night in a hotel free of charge’ or something down the line
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Last edited by GMTMaster; 28th April 2020 at 09:25.
Do you think they will do such a short run with this model?
Maybe scrap the red lettering??
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In a bit of a swerve, I notice that one of my local pub/nightclubs is offering punters the opportunity to prepay for entry and drinks in readiness for when they reopen at some point in the future.
The WOS offers seem quite sensible and safe by comparison.
That’s a good idea if they’ll let you do it - one of my credit cards allows me, the other won’t let me make advance payments for some reason.
I’ve ordered a VC watch which is being delivered. Their payment system wouldn’t let me do it on two credit cards as it will only take a single payment. Bit annoying as I want to put some of it on my Am Ex for points, whereas my larger limit it on my Virgin Atlantic so I had to use that - I’ve got already got nearly 600k miles I won’t be using anytime soon and the way things are Branson might pull the plug anyway.
I got in trouble with HSBC for putting my credit card in credit.
I think it was when I went to buy a engagement ring that was above my limit. They said I had broken terms and conditions for doing it and in the end they put the extra money on hold and moved it back to my current account after a bit of a faff. I guess if you try it def do it so your not in credit for very long.
How long were you in credit for?
I’ve done it with them the same day or the day before with no issues.
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I think it was about 4-5 days so I guess I left it too long
You can just call your credit card company and ask for a one off increase of £X to make a specific purchase. I once tried to buy a car on my credit card and they raised my limit to £30k for 48 hours but the finance company didn't take Amex anyway. My limit wasn't anything like £30k.
I'm currently on 1.25% cashback so £116.25 back to me at some point for the SD43.
Devonian, as far as I'm aware you can split payment across as many different debit cards as you like and include one credit card but you're not allowed to split payment on more than one credit card (assuming the retailer is able to or knows how to split payments). If the merchant is clued up they won't allow it. Back at Apple B2B if we allowed more than one credit card in a transaction we would be in a meeting room trying to explain ourselves very quick.
Btw I got greedy and asked if I could get a BLRO if I paid the same way as for the SD43 and was denied. The AD said they don't have any unallocated stock of that model so can't take a payment against it. If WoS were looking to take a load of 100% deposit payments to get some cashflow they would have surely taken my money.
I spoke to two different shops and when asking about payment both said i could pay by bank transfer or credit card and then straight away said the system will only take 1 payment on 1 card. They said this before I enquired and when I mentioned it said it wasn’t possible. I got the impression that this was all a bit new to them as I guess they don’t normally sell over the phone/posting their watches.
I agree with what you said though and I’m sure I’ve done it in the past.
Yes it’s against the terms and conditions. I’ve done it a few times with Nationwide and after a while they do want to get the overpayment back to you.
Also if you’re on a promotional rate they could, in theory withdraw the deal.
However if you’re efficient with it, it should be fine.
Banks will avoid large levels of positive balances on credit cards as it pulls them in scope for tax reporting...they are assumed out of scope as you cannot, under T&Cs hold positive balances...
You can get prepaid cards however
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As above, most people use these cards for benefits. EG my American Express gives me BA points and companion voucher for a qualifying spend throughout the year. If I needed to make a large purchase on this card above my limit, I would put into a positive balance just a day or so before the transaction. This would not cause a problem in such a short time and you would benefit from all the miles/vouchers etc.
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