closing tag is in template navbar
timefactors watches



TZ-UK Fundraiser
Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: Grand Seiko 9SA5 movement - very interesting indeed...

  1. #1
    Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Malta (Europe)
    Posts
    1,721

    Grand Seiko 9SA5 movement - very interesting indeed...

    A short video, for those who appreciate the technical side of things.

    I respect Seiko and had always wished that the Japanese giant would make use a full balance bridge, and more so a Free Sprung Balance on it's high end movements.

    I always thought the 8L35 movement should have these features, like the venerable 3135.

    I was even ridiculed at times, for commenting and not being a watchmaker, but I do know a thing or two about basic Mechanical Engineering.

    Apart from upgrading to a full balance bridge and free sprung balance, now it seems that Seiko took a page out of Omega's (George Daniel's) book with their new 9SA5 movement. The new escapement (1:10 in the video) bears an uncanny resemblance to Omega's long established Co-axial escapement. Very interesting indeed to see such progress in what is essentially ancient technology.

    Enjoy :) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUbJvRFHqoQ&t=451s
    Last edited by buddy13; 8th April 2020 at 11:14.

  2. #2
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    116
    Thanks for this, just the type of thing I joined here to learn about. If you come across other similar content I'm always open to expanding the knowledge.

    Next time I'd like to request less annoying narration though!

  3. #3
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    SE England
    Posts
    27,035
    Quote Originally Posted by buddy13 View Post
    A short video, for those who appreciate the technical side of things.

    I respect Seiko and had always wished that the Japanese giant would make use a full balance bridge, and more so a Free Sprung Balance on it's high end movements.

    I always thought the 8L35 movement should have these features, like the venerable 3135.

    I was even ridiculed at times, for commenting and not being a watchmaker, but I do know a thing or two about basic Mechanical Engineering.

    Apart from upgrading to a full balance bridge and free sprung balance, now it seems that Seiko took a page out of Omega's (George Daniel's) book with their new 9SA5 movement. The new escapement (1:10 in the video) bears an uncanny resemblance to Omega's long established Co-axial escapement. Very interesting indeed to see such progress in what is essentially ancient technology.

    Enjoy :) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUbJvRFHqoQ&t=451s
    Seiko copying Swiss watch technology 'eh?
    Cheers,
    Neil.

    My Speedmaster website:

    http://www.freewebs.com/neil271052

  4. #4
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    143
    Quote Originally Posted by WTRacer View Post
    Thanks for this, just the type of thing I joined here to learn about. If you come across other similar content I'm always open to expanding the knowledge.

    Next time I'd like to request less annoying narration though!
    I'm sure that's Scott Brick. I know this because I've just listened to his reading of Jurassic Park. I kept expecting him to break off and talk about the raptors throughout. "Ingen and Grand Seiko, they've spared no expense".

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by buddy13 View Post
    The new escapement (1:10 in the video) bears an uncanny resemblance to Omega's long established Co-axial escapement.
    I don't think that they are even remotely similar.

  6. #6
    Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    5,412
    Nearly 1mm thinner (0.8mm in fact), well done GS, slimmer autos are just what they need.

  7. #7
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    farmborough
    Posts
    185
    I'll be interested to see their pricing if these movements trickle down to their steel grand seikos.

    Looks like a really good movement, but I'm guessing this level of finishing and specs is going to be a considerable jump in price.

    To be honest, there isnt really anything wrong with the 9s8x series, if anything, they are a great starting point for the brands mechanicals and the new movement will be a great way to inject a little higher horology into their brand, rather than just pricing their current line up higher and higher.
    Last edited by superthrust; 8th April 2020 at 18:53.

  8. #8
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    farmborough
    Posts
    185
    Quote Originally Posted by Normunds View Post
    I don't think that they are even remotely similar.
    They are both direct impulse and are designed around the same theory bit seem to differ slightly in their execution.

  9. #9
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    208
    Thanks for sharing

  10. #10
    Master bedlam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Fremantle, Western Australia (GMT +8)
    Posts
    1,177
    Quote Originally Posted by Neil.C View Post
    Seiko copying Swiss watch technology 'eh?
    Two issues.

    It's not close enough to call it a copy. And Daniels wasn't Swiss.

  11. #11
    Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Malta (Europe)
    Posts
    1,721
    That GS diver is immense.

    Don't get me wrong, I still think the 116600 is better executed and more mature, unfortunately now that Seiko is catching up with the likes of the 4000 SD, they are also placing their new products in the same (or higher) price bracket!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Normunds View Post
    I don't think that they are even remotely similar.
    I was certainly not referring to how it 'looks'.

  12. #12
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    522
    Always interesting to watch these videos with newer technology comes improved technology. Never sure on the marketing though...

  13. #13
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    SE England
    Posts
    27,035
    Quote Originally Posted by Neil.C View Post
    Seiko copying Swiss watch technology 'eh?
    Quote Originally Posted by bedlam View Post
    Two issues.

    It's not close enough to call it a copy. And Daniels wasn't Swiss.
    You can still copy an idea and put your own slant on it. It happens all the time

    And co-axial technology is Swiss because they bought it from George Daniels. So it belongs to them.


    EDIT: Just been informed that the patents for co-axial technology have expired so could explain why Seiko are having a go.
    Last edited by Neil.C; 9th April 2020 at 13:48.
    Cheers,
    Neil.

    My Speedmaster website:

    http://www.freewebs.com/neil271052

  14. #14
    Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Malta (Europe)
    Posts
    1,721
    Quote Originally Posted by Neil.C View Post
    EDIT: Just been informed that the patents for co-axial technology have expired so could explain why Seiko are having a go.
    Very interesting!

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Neil.C View Post
    And co-axial technology is Swiss because they bought it from George Daniels. So it belongs to them.
    Hmm, I'm not sure that's the right word. Anyway, doesn't Roger Smith continue to use the co-axial escapement (with his own incremental refinements) in his watches?

  16. #16
    Master bedlam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Fremantle, Western Australia (GMT +8)
    Posts
    1,177
    Quote Originally Posted by Neil.C View Post
    And co-axial technology is Swiss because they bought it from George Daniels.
    Your statement is non-sensical. Seiko couldn't possibly have copied "the Swiss" cos "the Swiss" didn't invent the technology.
    Last edited by bedlam; 10th April 2020 at 06:16.

  17. #17
    Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Malta (Europe)
    Posts
    1,721
    Always funny to see people 'protecting' a brand name/company.

    I buy all my stuff with my hard earned, so for me no company is worth fighting for.

    That is, unless they start throwing nice expensive stuff for free at me :)...now where's Rolex's Marketing Manager?

  18. #18
    Master bedlam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Fremantle, Western Australia (GMT +8)
    Posts
    1,177
    Quote Originally Posted by buddy13 View Post
    Always funny to see people 'protecting' a brand name/company.

    I buy all my stuff with my hard earned, so for me no company is worth fighting for.

    That is, unless they start throwing nice expensive stuff for free at me :)...now where's Rolex's Marketing Manager?
    Not as funny as confusing a point of logic with a brand

  19. #19
    Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    3,252
    Quote Originally Posted by bedlam View Post
    Your statement is non-sensical. Seiko couldn't possibly have copied "the Swiss" cos "the Swiss" didn't invent the technology.
    Exactly!

  20. #20
    Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Bedfordshire, UK
    Posts
    1,655
    Fantastic. Many thanks.

    Nice read here about the movement and some more escapement detail saying it has more in common with the 'Robin inspired AP escapement' than the co-axial.

    https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/th...t-caliber-9sa5

    Off down the escapement internet rabbit hole we go...

  21. #21
    Very interesting article, thanks.

    the co-axial escapement has two escape wheels mounted on a single axis (hence the name) while the new Hi-Beat escapement has only one
    That sounds a lot like how I recall Roger Smith describing his incremental improvement to the Daniels escapement, but at the time it didn't mean a lot to me because I'm not super-familiar with escapement designs. I don't recall the specific video where he talks about this, it was in an interview on Youtube. I do remember that he didn't go into lots of detail in that interview, although there were a few brief shots of some CAD drawings that may or may not have shown the escapement.

    I don't know if his design is laid out in detail online anywhere. Might be interesting to compare the two if it is. Possibly one of the resident watchmakers could explain the differences. It's a shame the article mentions the Daniels escapement but not Roger Smith's variant. Perhaps they are unaware that he has modified the design.

  22. #22
    Seiko escapement



    Daniels/Smith escapement



    I don't see any similarity :)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Do Not Sell My Personal Information