Reply With QuoteKnow anyone with a Geiger counter? That Timor is going to be 75 years old. It looks to have been relumed. I hope whoever worked on it in the past understood the dangers of dealing with radium. Lovely watch!
Bought a watch last week. My first real vintage model and I love it.
However, in my excitement, I hadn't considered the potential dangers of Radium. I know that it is a very well contested debate but with five kids in the house, it simply isn't worth the risk to me.
I spoke to the seller who has been really helpful and I was all set to contact another interested member but then...
I wore it outside for ten minutes, came back in and it glowed!
Surely then, it can't be original radium? It must have been relumed at some point? Oddly, I'm hoping this is the case as it means I can keep it, (and I really love it).
So I'm asking for peoples thoughts, Is there any way that can be radium?
Thanks in advance,
Dave
Know anyone with a Geiger counter? That Timor is going to be 75 years old. It looks to have been relumed. I hope whoever worked on it in the past understood the dangers of dealing with radium. Lovely watch!
Radium 226 was used on watches with a half life of 1600 years, so if it is then it probably would still glow.
Like you I expect it has been relumed. I have some radium watches and they only glow for a fraction of a second after illuminating with a UV torch.
There are a few members who know those Timors well and will tell you.
You could try on MWR forum (but expect some good natured ribbing about being afraid of radium, not that I think you are wrong.
The radium lasts but the zinc sulphide which phosphoresces (glows) when irradiated, wears out.Originally Posted by bobdog
It is still quite radioactive but doesn’t glow.
Congrats Dave, the watch looks lovely.
I thought that so long as they were intact, they were relatively safe to wear given that we're constantly exposed to radiation in some form or another?
lovely watch btw
UV on a sunny day can excite radium lume into glowing. It just won't last very long, that's all.
Because the radium is not the glowing part. The radium is the exciter for the luminous material, not the glow itself. The UV from decent dunlight replaces the excitation previously prodived by the radium.
And it is totally harmless in the kind of quantities found in a single watch, especially one that is not worn all the time.
And with 5 kids already, the most harm it could do you (if worn inside your keks) is irrelevant anyhow.
Dave
In general that is true but everyone’s risk tolerance is different.
The Radon gas emitted by them is a factor. One watch won’t make any measurable difference to the overall Radon level in a house with decent ventilation.
Keeping half a dozen in a box under the bed in a non-ventilated bedroom would make a measurable difference but maybe/maybe not a dangerous one.
David Boettcher has a good write up about the issue on his site.
Last edited by alfat33; 6th April 2020 at 15:20.
So still might be radium then :(
Here is what concerns me
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/ne...serious-danger
And I know that it is probably harmless but as I said, it simply isn't worth the risk in my eyes.
Dave, read this for a less sensationalist view from someone who works with radium watches all the time.
https://vintagewatchstraps.com/luminous.php
How long does it glow for?
I recall reading a lengthy post over on the vintage section of the Rolex Forum regarding checking radium watches with a Geiger counter and some of the results were extremely high. From memory I think the advice was not to wear some of the watches tested, and store them in a sealed tin.
Thanks for that link...it's one I hadn't seen before.
If it only glows after exposure to strong light then it's probably been re-lumed at some time.
If it does not glow at all then they might be the original markings.
The point about Radium was that it was the energy source for the glow so you'd see it glowing even on a dull day.
As somebody said the zinc sulphide normally gives up first. Raduim drives Radioluminecence.
Modern watches (modern lumes) use Photo phosphorecence.
Radium decays to Radon - a gas and a weak alpha emmitter.
Last edited by aldfort; 6th April 2020 at 17:04.
Thanks for this Alfat, I do like learning about this stuff so will look him up.
Apologies that doesn't help your predicament Dave.
A very interesting thread. After surfing a few links, I came across this watch the Gamma Master watch with built in Geiger counter!
I have one of these as I flat out refuse to work on any watch with radium.
Congrats
Why would you have one of those, that seems to detect gamma and X-ray radiation, when discusisng the decay of radium, which emits alpha and beta particles during its decay chain?
That's absolutely marvellous. Out of stock which is probably just as well as I'm in a right ana-digi phase at the moment.
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
Radium-226
The γ spectrum of a radium source exhibits many lines, which come from the different isotopes of the radioactive series. The line at 186 keV is the only one which comes immediately from the radium-226 decay, namely from an excited state of radon-222. The excited states of Bi-214 render four lines at 352 keV, 295 keV, 242 keV and 53 keV. The excited state of Po-214 leads to the line at 609 keV. The strong line at approx. 80 keV is a superposition of Kα conversion lines and presumably of Bi-214 (77.1 keV) and Po-214 (79.3 keV). If a thorough evaluation is made, a weak line shows up at approx. 90 keV. It can be explained as the associated Kβ line, but it may also be the Kα line of radium after ionization by α radiation.
But the gamma is neither the danger, nor unique to radium, so measuring it is not likely to give any kind of relatable idea of the risk posed.
Alpha is the main threat from Radium and it’s daughter product Radon. The gamma and beta are much less dangerous, orders of magnitude less. The alpha can be stopped fully by a few thicknesses of paper and doesn’t penetrate skin at all deeply so is externally not much of a threat. The threat is with ingestion of either dust or gas. An intact radium dialed watch isn’t much of a threat at all, I have several and don’t take any particular precautions with storage. On the other hand, if you are dismantling and servicing one, then a few precautions might be wise as breathing in the dust is a bad idea.
ps that watch detector looks like a gimmick, nothing more. I haven’t seen much positive comment about the phone plug in models either.
Last edited by Padders; 7th April 2020 at 08:50.
But detecting the presence of Radium is sufficient to answer the OP's question.
Hi Dave, good luck with finding out, only wish I could be more helpful in knowing but it's turning out to be a tricky one.
Here's a slightly closer pic incase it's helpful to anyone?
Edit, and another...
I guess the only way to know for certain would be a gigacounter test, I wonder if anyone here has one that could test for you?
Last edited by Tetlee; 7th April 2020 at 13:36.
That’s the photo that sold it to me! It looks great there!
A radon gas detector is a useful alternative to a geigercounter. If you stick the watch in a box with it and leave it overnight you’ll know if it contains radium.
You can then use the detector to monitor the long term levels in your house, whether or not you keep the watch.
I would lend you mine but I am avoiding going out at the moment. I got mine from Amazon, the Airthings Corentium 222.
Because the phone lights up like a christmas tree when placed next to a radium dial watch, whereas tritium or promethium don't register.
I'm not interested in measuring anything, just a yes or no answer to radium and this provides that.
That's sort of odd?
The alpha particles given off by radium won't make it out of the watch case - fact. The decay product Radon (gas) is also an alpha emmitter as it goes on its way to becoming lead. As has been mentioned a few sheets of paper are sufficient to stop an alpha particle.
Now a gamma emitter on the other hand will need a inch or so of lead to stop it.
See #226.
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