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Thread: PRS-18-Q COSC - something amiss

  1. #1

    PRS-18-Q COSC - something amiss

    Just noticed an issue with my PRS-18-Q COSC.

    The seconds hand is not progressing at all, just sticking in the same place. It appears to be ticking (you can see the seconds hand moving) but just not advancing. I have replaced the battery, but still the same.

    Not sure if this video will work, but let me try:

    https://i.imgur.com/yRzIcqo.mp4

    Has anyone seen the same?

  2. #2
    Master
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    I had problems with mine and so sold it for spares or repair, as it had been relumed/opened it did not seem to be fair to return it under warranty.

    The last message I had from the buyer said it was working OK, so i have no idea what was wrong with it,I do know it was never dropped or banged by me at least.

  3. #3
    Master Rod's Avatar
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    I had a Seiko quartz that I bought in the late 70's, anyway the last battery my watch chap put in, the minute hand wouldn't move any more. He said the watch was duff.
    I took it home put it away and maybe a couple of weeks later found it was going again and it's been ok since... weird...
    Hope you can get it going again.

  4. #4
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    Has the second hand come off its spindle?

  5. #5
    Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    My Divex 200m had the same thing a few weeks back. I was all set to get the battery replaced and a pressure test when I accidently dropped it on the table. It's been ticking away fine ever since. It's a Seiko VX quartz movement if that makes a difference.

    Try giving the watch a little tap into your hand.

  6. #6
    Many thanks for the replies.

    I have tried giving it a little tap, though sadly that made no difference.

    As to the second hand, it is still on its spindle - also the hour and minute hands are not advancing.

    I have also tried advancing the hands manually, removing/reinserting the battery, etc but all to no effect.

  7. #7
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    I have a 18 cosc which about a month ago exhibited a similar problem,
    I don't wear a watch every day but about a month back went to put on my 18 cosc only to find that it was about 10 seconds out, reset the watch and the next day it was about 2 seconds out, checked how long the battery should last and concluded that it was unlikely to be the battery, anyhow about 5 days ago I reset it again for about the sixth time, since then its keeping perfect time again, twice during the month when looking at the watch I found the seconds hand sticking around the 20 minute to the hour marker.
    I think that perhaps it's something to do with the stem being pulled out and not making a full connection when pushed back in, well its the best theory I have, the little bugger is working perfectly now.
    Last edited by number2; 2nd April 2020 at 18:21.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    I have a 18 cosc which about a month ago exhibited a similar problem,
    I don't wear a watch every day but about a month back went to put on my 18 cosc only to find that it was about 10 seconds out, reset the watch and the next day it was about 2 seconds out, checked how long the battery should last and concluded that it was unlikely to be the battery, anyhow about 5 days ago I reset it again for about the sixth time, since then its keeping perfect time again, twice during the month when looking at the watch I found the seconds hand sticking around the 20 minute to the hour marker.
    I think that perhaps it's something to do with the stem being pulled out and not making a full connection when pushed back in, well its the best theory I have, the little bugger is working perfectly now.
    Many thanks.

    The second hand on mine is sticking at the "41 seconds past" or "19 seconds to" the hour marker.

    The watch went out of warranty last month, so I will look to source another movement.

    Does anyone know whether the F06.111 is a direct drop in for the F06.411 (assuming here that I can't source another 411 movement)? I note on the technical drawings for the PRS-18Q COSC that it actually references an F06.111.

  9. #9
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willie_gunn View Post

    The second hand on mine is sticking at the "41 seconds past" or "19 seconds to" the hour marker.
    Whilst I didn't note the exact position that the seconds hand was sticking it sounds like the same place /issue.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    I don't wear a watch every day
    What? Are you even allowed to be on this forum?

  11. #11
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by estoban7 View Post
    What? Are you even allowed to be on this forum?
    I've always been a bit of a rebel.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by willie_gunn View Post
    Many thanks.

    The second hand on mine is sticking at the "41 seconds past" or "19 seconds to" the hour marker.

    The watch went out of warranty last month, so I will look to source another movement.

    Does anyone know whether the F06.111 is a direct drop in for the F06.411 (assuming here that I can't source another 411 movement)? I note on the technical drawings for the PRS-18Q COSC that it actually references an F06.111.

    Have you spoken to Eddie about the issue that your having.

  13. #13
    Craftsman canuck's Avatar
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    PRS-18-Q COSC - something amiss

    I had the same thing in a non cosc one. Asked Eddie. Thought was that the hand needed a little squeeze to tighten it up.

    I didnít bother and sold for spares on eBay. This was about six - seven years ago

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by MADDOG View Post
    Have you spoken to Eddie about the issue that your having.
    No, since itís out of warranty.

  15. #15
    Journeyman Redcoat's Avatar
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    I had similar issues with my non-COSC version a few years ago. I ordered a new 715Li movement for $25, dropped it in and itís been a great timekeeper since.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by canuck View Post
    I had the same thing in a non cosc one. Asked Eddie. Thought was that the hand needed a little squeeze to tighten it up.

    I didnít bother and sold for spares on eBay. This was about six - seven years ago
    Thanks.

    Did the hour and minute hands still advance though?

  17. #17
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willie_gunn View Post
    Thanks.

    Did the hour and minute hands still advance though?
    Not in the case of my 18 cosc.
    Magnetism,?
    Possibly as much as a year ago whilst working on my laptop I put the watch next to the computer, the hands of the watch stopped, I moved the watch away from the laptop and it started again, I repeated this two or three times, with the same result, sorry just remembered this.
    Last edited by number2; 2nd April 2020 at 22:26.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  18. #18

    PRS-18-Q COSC - something amiss

    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    Not in the case of my 18 cosc.
    Magnetism,?
    Possibly as much as a year ago whilst working on my laptop I put the watch next to the computer, the hands of the watch stopped, I moved the watch away from the laptop and it started again, I repeated this two or three times, with the same result, sorry just remembered this.
    I donít think is magnetism - itís been doing nothing but sitting on my desk, in my ďpileĒ of spare watches. None of the others seem affected.

  19. #19
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    If you fit a replacement movement could you try to establish what the problem was with the dud?
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    If you fit a replacement movement could you try to establish what the problem was with the dud?
    You may be considerably over-estimating my diagnostic capabilities!

    ďIt works.....itís brokeĒ.

  21. #21
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willie_gunn View Post
    You may be considerably over-estimating my diagnostic capabilities!

    ďIt works.....itís brokeĒ.
    Ever the optimist.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  22. #22

    PRS-18-Q COSC - something amiss

    Quote Originally Posted by Redcoat View Post
    I had similar issues with my non-COSC version a few years ago. I ordered a new 715Li movement for $25, dropped it in and itís been a great timekeeper since.
    Cheers.

    I believe the case of the COSC version has different dimensions, so Iíve ordered the non thermo-compensated 111 movement which should hopefully drop in.

    If I read it correctly, the ETA website states that production of the 411 was halted at the end of Jan and has been replaced by the 412, though sadly Cousins list neither.
    Last edited by willie_gunn; 3rd April 2020 at 06:35.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    Ever the optimist.
    Just had a look at my watch this morning and the seconds hand has now advanced to ď20 past the hourĒ and is stuck there.

    It clearly worked for less than a minute, as the minute hand has barely advanced at all.

  24. #24
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willie_gunn View Post
    Just had a look at my watch this morning and the seconds hand has now advanced to ď20 past the hourĒ and is stuck there.

    It clearly worked for less than a minute, as the minute hand has barely advanced at all.
    Can't help thinking that it's just the battery.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  25. #25
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    Can't help thinking that it's just the battery,
    PM later.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    Can't help thinking that it's just the battery.
    I replaced it with a brand new Renata 371 (expires 11/21) yesterday.

  27. #27
    Craftsman canuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willie_gunn View Post
    Thanks.

    Did the hour and minute hands still advance though?
    Yes they did. Mine was exactly as you described. I was leaving the uk at this point and I didnít and still donít have the skills to do that work and with a tight timeline just dumped it.

  28. #28
    Two F06.111 movements arrived in the post yesterday, so I spent a pleasant 30 minutes this morning removing the old movement and replacing it with one of the new ones.

    The 111 is, indeed, a simple drop-in.

    I used the same (new) Renata 371 and the watch is now ticking away on the wrist quite happily.

    If I can source a new F06.412 (or another suitable) COSC movement at some point I will swap that over, but in the meantime I can enjoy the watch as is.

    Thanks again to everyone who contacted me here or via PM for your kind help and advice.


    Sent from my iPad using TZ-UK mobile app

  29. #29
    Master
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    How do you do it,do you remove the hands with a special tool?

    You make it sound so easy.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by bwest76 View Post
    How do you do it,do you remove the hands with a special tool?

    You make it sound so easy.
    That's because I only post about the times where it works!

    Seriously, swapping a quartz movement isn't particularly complicated, though it is close to the limit of my abilities.

    Here is my method.

    I remove the case back, then the battery, then the crown and stem, and then the movement holder that holds the movement in the case.

    I turn the case over so that the movement drops onto a cushion holder.

    Wearing cots (latex gloves for just the finger-ends) I then cover the dial with a transparent plastic bag and use hand removers to take off the hands, which I store carefully in a box (often the plastic one that the replacement movement arrived in). This is the result of bitter experience, and I am sure there are still errant seconds hand embedded in the carpet somewhere.

    In the case of this particular movement I then put it dial-down into a movement holder and loosen the two screws that secure the dial.

    Then I remove the movement from the dial, study it carefully, and realise that I haven't a clue as to what was wrong with it (as I said above, I have very limited abilities).

    I then ensure the dial is safe in the movement holder "dial down". I then check that the little washer is in place on the movement and attach the dial to it, then turning it over again to secure the little screws that hold the dial in place.

    Turning the movement back so that it is "dial up" I then attach the hands, frequently swearing a lot in the process. I use a piece of Rodico on a short length of peg wood to hold the hand, as I have normally drunk too much coffee by this stage to manage them unaided!

    I use some cheap hand "pushers" to affix the hands. There must be a better way - I was just thinking this morning about some kind of micrometer-driven device. But holding the hands is the trick, as clearly magnetism is a no-no.

    Once I get the seconds hand back on (always the worst) I will check that the hands are level and rotate without fouling on the dial or with each other.
    It is then just a question of removing any residual dust on the dial or the underside of the crystal (using a blower and the Rodico) and re-assembling, using silicon grease on the gaskets where necessary.

    I then turn to the watch back over to check that everything works. Normally at this stage I see a missed piece of dust, or notice that the seconds hand isn't hitting the markers. To get these things right is why you should use a "proper" watch repairer, not a clumsy oaf like me.

    I am sure the professionals in the audience are by now in a state of either hilarity or apoplexy, but this is what works for me and I hope it helps. I heartily recommend buying a cheap broken quartz beater from eBay or similar and giving it a go. The satisfaction when it works is immense.

  31. #31
    Master
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    Thanks for posting that, itís just a little more complicated than you saying-The 111 is, indeed, a simple drop-in.

    Youíve obviously more skill than you realise

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by bwest76 View Post
    Thanks for posting that, itís just a little more complicated than you saying-The 111 is, indeed, a simple drop-in.

    Youíve obviously more skill than you realise
    In reality I have way more confidence than is justified by my very limited skills.

    This is self-evident from the fact that I am currently sitting at my desk looking at a number of watches, movements and broken parts on the shelf that will never be resurrected. Those are my failures. Many date from when I first started trying to fix watches, but others are more recent and where my abilities were clearly not up to the task, at least at that time. To my left hand side, however, is quite literally a pile of watches that are ticking away happily. Working or not, each of these watches has taught me some useful lessons.

    In general this is why I limit myself to working on what I consider to be cheap beaters. I would think most of them cost me under 20 quid originally - some significantly less - so even after you factor in a replacement movement and sapphire crystal, none of them is going to break the bank. The biggest problem I have is that I can't bring myself to part with them once they are back up and running, so I now have a growing mound of watches that require storage...and batteries....and endless sarcastic comments from Mrs Gunn.

    A couple of years ago I could never have contemplated replacing the movement in the PRS-18, but having done 30 or 40 other quartz watches in the intervening period I found myself actively looking forward to it. I can easily see how the watch modders get their kicks!

    The 111 really is a simple drop in, in that there's no need to worry about which height movement to buy, the dial and crown/stem are straightforward to remove and directly interchangeable with the new movement, etc. It's much harder when you have to try to work out which modern movement can replace a redundant and discontinued old one. But even that type of research is an essential part of the fun.

    For this watch I sat down at 5:20 this morning and was still done in time to take my wife her 6:00 cup of tea, so it likely took me longer to write up what I did than to actually do it!

    Truth be told, I am neither particularly dexterous nor particularly organised. My supposed "watch workbench" doubles up during the day as my office desk and because I am so messy I end up with less and less "real estate" on which to work. However I can be pretty methodical when I need to be, which I think helps.

    All of the above is really to emphasise that if I can do it anyone can.

    The lovely thing about the fettling side of this hobby (I honestly can't describe what I do as watch repairing) is that you can step into it for minimal outlay. I would think the hand removers, pushers, movement holder and cushion rest again cost me under 20 quid. I did buy some tweezers and screwdrivers but could have got away with using the ones I already had. If you want to replace watch crystals then of course you will need a crystal remover and press. Rodico and peg wood are cheap consumables.

    Whilst the raw materials might be cheap the reward, as they say in the adverts, is priceless.

    Even if it all goes horribly wrong and you end up ruining your cheap beater, you will still come away with an appreciation of the skill of those who really can repair and restore watches. I am honestly at a loss as to how independent watch repairers make any money. It must be as much a passion as a profession. I recognise that with experience comes technique, and with technique speed, but the man hours and experience that must be necessary to complete a successful professional watch restoration leaves me in awe.

  33. #33
    Just a brief update.

    80 hours on from replacing the movement and so far the watch is down -1s, which I don't think is too shabby for a movement that cost £16.50 delivered!

    Not COSC standard, but "close enough for Government work" as the saying goes.

  34. #34
    Journeyman Redcoat's Avatar
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    Good result. Well done! Thanks for the update.

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