Reply With QuoteReally, I’m not sure when you take everything into account.Originally Posted by JPCain86
Wrong. Again
Really, I’m not sure when you take everything into account.
Well, if my rent/mortgage/child maintenance/electricity etc. is already paid, then I’d give £94 a week a good go in desperate times - but if your outgoings are multiple times that, for whatever reasons, and all of a sudden you have zero income, then it’s just not going to cut it, is it?
No, he’s wrong and has been throughout this entire thread. Sounds like he works alongside some ‘contractors’ who are gaming the system, getting paid more than him and he’s got a chip on his shoulder as a consequence.
JPCain. Just to be clear, if I take dividends into the higher rate tax band I pay 32.5% on those dividends. On top of the ~15% corporation tax I have already paid. So, no, as a higher earner being a limited company director does not benefit me more.
As I’ve said previously your mates are evading tax. IR35 might force your company to prevent this in the future. Here’s hoping.
This isn't the bear pit you know. Keep your offensive (and ignorant) language to yourself please. And why precisely do you think I am ignorant? Have I said something that is not factual??
Ps glad it will affect you though :0)
Last edited by redmonaco; 12th April 2020 at 00:10.
But they were until quite recently. 10% on dividends made quite a difference over what would have been paid if it had been salary. For years directors have been using this method for reducing tax.
Charming little ‘ps’ there. Class act.
And, just so you know, almost everything you stated was not factually correct.
What precisely was not factual??
Bear in mind that I used to be a director and so used these very same strategies. I also realise that recently things have changed and the tax saving is nowhere near what it used to be.
Doesn't change the face that majority of directors being paid a small salary and the rest on dividends was for tax reduction reasons...
And the ps was in reply to the filth that was directed at me by the poster...
Last edited by redmonaco; 12th April 2020 at 00:09.
Income tax is 50% for higher earners.
I don't want to sound like a broken record but there are far more opportunities to claim VAT back for stuff if you're not PAYE.
No it isn’t. Why can’t you get even the simplest things right FFS?
Well if that's the logic CEOs who get taxed heavily but then have many thousands to spend on items and get charged VAT should be the most entitled.
For me the money should be there for the most needing the support. Those who will really struggle without the money to live.
Unfortunately the government didn't have time to assess everyone individually so they have put something in place where people who don't need to claim will.
Lots of people who are claiming wouldn't be entitled to jobseekers.
All it means is that the pot the government has put to one side runs out far quicker.
I am surprised people are so angry about not getting the full £5,400 over the 3 months. There's a good chance the global economy will be in pieces after this.
Sorry 45%. Why are you so angry.
Well, that logic could also be used for sole traders who are raking it in. You bought up the issue of VAT registration, and my point was that many (most?) of us generate far more than we recover (so really it's a red herring).
In a more general sense, the level of schadenfreude evident in this thread is both revealing and disturbing in the extreme. I'm sure those of us who just wanted to chew the fat on this issue will have all made note, though.
I’m pissed off because you’re on here sharing your thoughts as facts, and practically everything you say is plain wrong. You don’t understand tax, accountancy or how limited companies work and keep returning to spout more inaccuracies. That’s why.
You have to be vat registered and over the threshold to reclaim - I think it’s £85,000 at the moment so not everybody will be able to.
I brought it up in response to the higher earning PAYE will be worse off.
My view is that people who have money shouldn't be entitled to this. People who earn good money should have access to other means of £5,400.
The money should be there to help people who will struggle to survive. It's not there for others can maintain some similar style lifestyle.
I would of said that if someone has say £100k of assets they shouldn't claim for the support.
Wasn't the main reason for the furlough payment to stop businesses laying people off.
I'm not mainstream media. Do you have to correct everyone.
So a PAYE staff earning £500k will lose 45.8% of his income. I am sorry I offended you but just prove me wrong instead of getting so mad.
There are plenty of people with lots of cash who are out of work. Equally plenty people earning decent money who still have little in the way of savings. The two are not mutually exclusive.
The point is some people will continue to earn and be unaffected but can still claim. Others will earn over 50k and get nothing despite all income stopping. It’s a completely unfair method of allocation. First thing should have been proof of loss of income imho but they didn’t do this. To pay high levels of tax and be entitled to nothing when all your income has ceased is fundamentally wrong in my eyes. I’m sure others will view it differently but the people this could force out of business are successful one man bands. Time will tell of course.
I think we are saying the same thing. That's why is said if you have over £100k in assets then you shouldn't be entitled. As for me you could liquidate or borrow against those assets for the £5400.
As time is against the govt I would have said all can claim if they believe they don't have this value but should it be found you do then the money will be claimed back
This thread is about the lack of support for self employed people. You’ve been all over it suggesting limited companies directors will be fine because they all cook the books and often only pay £10k on £100k income (completely impossible). If that’s what you believe then great - stick with that and move on.
To be honest I don’t even understand your most recent post, and won’t be wasting my time attempting to decipher it. You really haven’t offended me, it’s just painful to read such rambling off-topic nonsense.
I haven't said that at all. I said my friends do this and I think my friend corrected me and said it was around £12k ish. Again my personal view from what I know from people.
One of them didn't pay anything on £80k.
Last edited by JPCain86; 12th April 2020 at 10:11.
Actually income tax peaks at 60% in the £100k-£125k bracket.
We’ve been here before JPCain. If they have taken 80 or 100k out of their businesses into their personal accounts over the course of a year and paid either nothing or 12k then they are tax evaders and will hopefully one day have the book thrown at them. Please believe me when I say this is NOT POSSIBLE legally. The only way you can approach those numbers is if they’re chucking £40k into a pension, which is obviously highly tax efficient (and available to everybody, including PAYE!).
I will repeat, once again, that anything taken in the higher tax band as a dividend is taxed at 32.5% on top of the ~15% corporation tax they will also owe. So, for a £50k dividend in the higher rate band they would lose approximately half of it in tax.
Anyway I give up now. Happy Easter
You mean approx 63% of UK households then?
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures....nership/latest
Noting that not all houses will be worth > £100k, but even most people in those will have a TV, some furniture & some clothes.
Effectively you'd be excluding most of the population.
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
I would imagine they are tax evaders but they still did it.
If they have £100k in equity then yes. My view is they shouldn't be entitled to the £5,400 pp furlough money over the 3 months.
Fair enough I’m glad we got there eventually. Myself, Tony and most others are not tax evaders, pay our way along with everyone else and take offence at being lumped in with those muppets that don’t. That’s why some of your posts have been met with annoyance.
No hard feelings though. Enjoy this fine Easter Day.
I'm not wishing anyone to fall on hard times.
I just hope those "self employed" who have just been gaming the system as contractors working for years for the same company, earning more & paying less tax than their PAYE colleagues, put some money aside for a rainy day.
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
As is your bullying and vitreolic post to me. My post was factually stating why the vast majority of directors, including myself in the past and on advice of accountants, have for years been using that method to reduce tax liabilities. A method not available by the way for paye and self employed. Again you can't expect to have your cake and eat it. There was no swearing or animosity in my post. It was just factual.
Your reply on the other hand was neanderthal and vicious .
You showed with your language and attitude that you are indeed the ignorant one. Society and the internet would be a better place without the behaviours you have displayed.
While I do not wish anyone financial hardships I will on this occasion make an exception with you in direct reply to your vile and unwarranted attack on me.
Just be careful, because one day you may come across someone just like you, and may not have a screen and keyboard to hide behind. ..
I did try and make it clear I was talking about my friends. Whether they are in the minority or majority I can't comment.
But I do know someone who has his wife on the books for tax purposes and is now looking into furlough her for government support.
Enjoy your day
These are desperate times for many people, yes, but there have always been desperate times for individuals and few will have cared.
For whatever reasons? Tighten your belt as others will have had to do do many times before. Consider that you aren’t owed a certain lifestyle.
There was nothing factual about the nauseating smilie at the end of your post. Your subsequent comment - and this one - show you for the scum that you are. I won't engage with you again, so post away to your heart's content - you'll no longer register on my awareness.
Quite right.
Believe it or not it may be hard for some here to understand that not all are grasping for every Pound they can get, need it or not.
We live in a society and should protect the most vulnerable.
Plenty here that will be gnashing their teeth try to get everything they can when if they really need the readies they could sell a rolex
Where there’s a situation like this, unfortunately there will always be those looking for ways to take advantage. Thankfully your mates are definitely in the minority
It's an imperfect system introduced in a crisis scenario, hence the self-employed being entitled to claim whilst still working and requiring no proof that profits have been impacted by the Corona virus restrictions. It's intended to help those that REALLY need it and to protect the economy, it's not a dividend based on your real or perceived contribution to the Exchequer over the years.
I just hope the help gets to those who need it most. There's a lot of pain for many unfortunate people now and in the months to come. Those of us with expensive watch collections, substantial capital and/or a relatively affluent lifestyle wouldn't change places with any of those less fortunate for the sake of a few thousand over 3 months or so.
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Your attack on me warranted the smile. Imo you deserved it . Glad it upset you as it was meant to do :0)
I think this thread is a car crash now.
Why do people wish hardship on others. We need to pull together.
But was in reply to an unwarranted attack on me. A bit like a return punch.
I actually feel quite sorry for you redmonaco if that’s how your mind works. Wishing someone ill as a consequence of this awful time is really low. Karma won’t forget that one I shouldn’t think.
Well said.
But (of course as you know) I wasn't wishing anyone Ill as a consequence of this awful time. I was wishing someone ill for calling me an ignorant Fu*king twat over a non aggressive and factual post I made.
Still, huddle up with your mate in the corner of the playground.
That’s ok then! Class act mate
Permission to facepalm
I don't want to sound like a broken record either but to claim VAT back something has to have been purchased solely and exclusively for business use - just like your employer will claim the VAT back on chairs, computers, raw materials etc. If anything it seems to be the PAYE employees hoping to "save the VAT" when they employ tradespeople.
Don't forget any dividends issued which for a 40% tax payer are taxed at 32.5% will already have had corporation tax paid on them at 19% and previously when the personal tax rate on dividends was 10% the company also paid a dividend tax.
Yes they were used to save a very small amount of tax by some, but the vast amount of dividends end up in the pension funds of PAYE employees.
HMRC will not create or allow a personal tax regime that is more than a very small percentage different from a practical point of view.
The argument is similar to public vs private sector there are pluses and minuses but if there was a huge disparity no-one would work for one of them.
Again I'm not trying to throw everyone in the same boat. I am talking about friends and close work colleagues.
My experience is they claim VAT back for pretty much everything you can. The first thing they usually ask is I wonder if I can claim VAT back on that.
You can usually tell who is PAYE by the ones that ask for a reciept with every coffee, sandwich or meal they order at lunch.
‘Is the lunch part of a business meeting?
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