Reply With QuoteDo a search for Sage, Gaggia, Melilla on here - there are at least two long threads.
I enjoy a coffee - I treat myself to one cup a day, first thing in the morning, and I love it. That said, I know absolutely nothing about what is considered good or bad...
My wife treated me to a basic Dolce Gusto pod device that lasted just over a year before it self-destructed and I'm back now to a kettle and a jar of Kenco. I'm sure there's a better way to enjoy a nice brew?
I've started looking but the choice and variety is absolutely mind-blowing. Tassimo, Lavazza, Dolce Gusto, Nespresso... Filter coffee, bean-to-cup - milk-frothers!? The sheer volume of choice just makes me itch!
So, wise forum, help me decide. My preference is a latte; I enjoy a strong-flavoured, frothy coffee.
I suspect I'd like the convenience of a pod-based machine but am I missing out on a quality cup by doing so? Also I don't want to spend the earth - some of the bean-to-cup setups are eye-wateringly expensive.
Do a search for Sage, Gaggia, Melilla on here - there are at least two long threads.
Add Aeropress to your research list.
Originally Posted by blackal
Those brands seem to have HUGE price tags attached...
If you are only having one cup a day and you are trying to keep the budget in check then as suggested Airopress as suggested or a stove top moka pot and buy smaller quantities of pre ground coffee from a good provider.
Enjoy the journey.
I use a Tassimo daily. The machines come up for sale frequently so I wouldn’t buy full retail. The coffee pods can work out expensive, more so than the Dolce Gusto I used to have. I generally wait for a deal to appear on Amazon before I buy pods.
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Budget is very important. I started with a £400 machine, am now on a £1500 machine with £600 grinder. And there's all sorts in between and either side of that.
I've recently had to give up caffeine due to a heart arrhythmia but was quite into it. At home I never moved passed an aeropress. The quality of coffee you can get from an aeropress and a half decent grinder is fantastic and you would have to spend a lot of money on a machine to beat. Of course, if you want to make espresso based drinks at home then you'll need a machine. But you'll get more flavour from a V60 or aeropress and save yourself tonnes of cash!
First question is whether you want to go down the espresso rabbit hole or not. It’s expensive, messy, takes up space, difficult to get a good shot but also rewarding when everything falls into place. I would not recommend unless you want another hobby and have a grand or so to spare.
A good grinder and an aero press or just a filter holder gives you fantastic coffee at no cost, and it’s super convenient. It will however not give you the frothy feeling of a good cappuccino. But maybe it’s good enough and the saved money can be used for a weekend cafe treat?
Whatever you do buy a decent grinder and buy quality beans. And stay far away from nespresso.
Yes, Hario V60 or similar should not be underestimated.
Best deciding what you want to drink first. Much easier that way.
If you’re keen on frothed milk and the like nespresso is good. Also very good if you and anyone you live with like different coffees or you’re also into decaf in the evenings.
However if you just want espressos or americanos going bean to cup is probably better. More expensive on the way in but cheaper over time.
I think the capsules I use on nespresso are 49p each and I’ll have a double in the morning and probably another double after lunch. If I’m doing any exercise (incredibly rare) I’ll have a single espresso first. At least £2 per day for me, another £1 for my wife. With a bean to cup machine it would be pennies.
It's a bit of a quartz vs handwind question this. No soul in those pod machines
I'm very happy with a quartz watch but less so with my coffee.
Once you've had good fresh beans it's hard to go back. The stuff in the pods is pretty stale with an aluminium taste that is hard to ignore once you know it's there.
For a budget option without going all in a stove top moka pot (or aeropress) and a porlex hand grinder are very hard to beat. A cheap ALDI milk frother or similar will then finish off the job. Note this is a pretty manual setup and can become a chore but produces a quality coffee once dialed in. Note a local roaster will grind beans to suit your machine and you can just buy in small quantities though fresh ground is best.
If you enjoy the process then can consider upping the budget and if not you haven't spent much so not much lost.
While the machine would seem to be the obvious priority a quality grinder and fresh beans are the key to good consistent coffee and should be part of your budget rather than an afterthought.
This said I'm all in on coffee now with thousands spent on machine and grinder and a cupboard of other coffee toys. Even though I can walk to four different coffee roasters from home and about the same from the office the wife insists we buy beans from a specific couple of roasters only as the others aren't up to scratch, so in short we're in deep.
If you're happy with the pods enjoy your morning coffee and move on, it's a mad house once you start....
(Looks like I've been beaten to the punch, shouldn't have walked off and had a coffee while typing my response. I'm just repeating everyone else now...)
Last edited by Dean Learner; 24th January 2022 at 12:28. Reason: Slow typing
I'll be honest, I've never had an expresso - coffee & milk, or more usually a latte/cappuccino
I'm definitely not thinking to spend thousands! Maybe ~£200 max.
I'd argue (others may call me a snob!) that you can't get "good" coffee at home for that price - average coffee, sure. But, as said, if I had £200 I would buy a good grinder, aeropress, V60 and French press and learn how to use them properly. It'll be by far the tastiest coffee at that price. Use the change to get some nice beans from Round Hill Roastery
the benchmark is the cheapest Dolce Gusto machine on the market, or a kettle and a jar of Kenco! I think 'average' is aspirational!
Last edited by RickChard; 24th January 2022 at 12:52.
If the larger component of you enjoyment is the milk and the way it's prepared, could a consideration be a milk frother for the volume and texture (lots of option out there) then using a 'premium' instant?
There are so many options (as demonstrated in all the good information above), which include personal taste, budget, effort etc., etc.
The cost of beans isn't massively cheaper than pods - the ones I use are lower down the scale in cost (around £18/kilo delivered), but this is having tried lots of varieties from different suppliers.
I'd estimate that this work out at 34p per double espresso, which is't a million miles from pod costs, but it does involve an outlay of £1700 (ish) for a machine, grinder and other paraphernalia.
Its only a method of searching using typical makes
The problem is when you do get good coffee at home, you inevitably can't enjoy it (mostly) anywhere else.
That was my set up for years, right down to the five quid Aldi frother, and once I'd figured out how I liked it, I rarely got a bad cup of coffee out of it.
That said, I bought a DeLonghi Magnifica bean to cup machine for a couple of hundred quid on a good Friday deal on Amazon about five or six years ago and couldn't be happier with it. That machine probably makes ten cups of coffee a day, 360 days a year and has never missed a beat. I did used to enjoy the ritual of manually grinding the beans and all that, but there's a lot to be said for just be able to press a button.
Lots of great advice here. The key question is do you want an espresso or just a good decent mug of coffee
A pod based machine will never be beaten for convenience but the pay off is in lower quality and flavour compared to a bead to cup or Drip filter such as a V60 set. In my experience, I would say the Nespresso is most likely the best of the bunch of pod machines and stick with the original rather than the Vertuo which seems to foam up your coffee rather than develop a crema.
However, if you want quality and are willing to put some time (plan around 5-7mins) into your morning cuppa then a Drip filter like the V60, Chemex, an aeropress or even a good French press will give you a better cup of coffee. The key here is freshly ground beans are the best and so a decent grinder is essential to get the best of the best. Of course, none of these will give you an espresso.
Coffee is a massive rabbit hole and I would recommend watching James Hoffmann on YouTube as he explains the different methods of coffeee brewing including Nespresso and reviews many pieces of equipment. He is a great starting place.
Below is an example of a quick and dirty cup
coffee with my V60 set up
More usually brewed into a server with a ratio of 15:1 water to beans.
Last edited by paw3001; 24th January 2022 at 23:01.
The OP said he would like strong coffee with frothy milk for a latte.
I'd recommend a moka pot using the Hoffman method, see below. For the milk, I'd suggest picking up a separate milk frother.
That should set you back about £70.
Personally on the rare occasions I have milk in my coffee, I heat it up in the microwave in blasts of 20s so as not to overdo it, but that's a flat white... :)
For one cup a day I too would recommend a stove top pot. That's what I use as I like a strong black coffee to start the day.
If I needed milk I would try the ideas at this link: Steam milk without an espresso maker.
For a simple filter coffee while travelling I use Hanging Ear Drip Coffee Bags.
I got a Jura e6 from this forum 2 years ago. Benn really pleased with. Whole beans
Aeropress, Aerolatte milk frother and buy your beans pre-ground from one of the favoured roasteries.
After that you can upgrade and get a grinder or something better to froth your milk. An Aeropress is an excellent piece of kit, portable and I used one for several years before getting a proper machine.
Edit. The following will not suit the OP wanting espresso coffee with milk. But for filter coffee, the following is a good start.
Aero press
Good quality beans (for filter not espresso roast) eg from Square Mile
Wilda grinder
Poor over kettle with narrow spout and temp adjuster
No need for frother as filter coffee is better without milk
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Last edited by benshep; 24th January 2022 at 14:20.
I’m on a 400 quid machine so what the next step
At that price it’s almost certainly got to be a Nespresso with a milf frothed. A decent grinder would cost you that and double for a machine. It’ll also be a massive step up from the pods
If you want a good compromise machine that makes decent coffee without breaking the bank I would recommend this DeLonghi one, which I have and use daily
https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/househ...24062-pdt.html
If you use a decent ground coffee, Lavazza red is good, you get a good result, certainly far nicer than the pod machines I have tried over the years. You have the milk frother built in too.
The Melitta solo is the cheapest btc I have seen at around £230
https://www.coffeefriend.co.uk/p/cof...a-e950-solo-4/
if you wanted a btc melitta stuff is ok. I've had mine for a few years now and we are on 10000 cups. It's failed twice but I've managed to fix it with parts costing no more than £30.
I have always loved coffee and arguably drink far too much. For years I was a Nespresso fan, they were quick, clean, easy and made pretty good coffee, I recently bought a Delonghi Magnifica bean to cup machine from this very forum and it has been superb and makes great coffee. Recently we had a power cut due to a faulty sub station supply so resorted to my 25 year old Moka pot which I bought in Italy for around 12,000 lira if my memory serves me well (c.£4), stuck it on the gas stove and was amazed by how good it was. A bit more faff but you cannot go far wrong tbh.
Looks a great set up there, but surprised to see a Vertuo (or whatever the large capsule Nespresso is), as I found it the worst coffee is ever tasted & the ‘sea foam’ on top was vile. Gave it away & as you say, the original one makes a better cup from the 2 choices.Lots of great advice here. The key question is do you want an espresso or just a good decent mug of coffee
A pod based machine will never be beaten for convenience but the pay off is in lower quality and flavour compared to a bead to cup or Drip filter such as a V60 set. In my experience, I would say the Nespresso is most likely the best of the bunch of pod machines and stick with the original rather than the Vertuo which seems to foam up your coffee rather than develop a crema.
However, if you want quality and are willing to put some time (plan around 5-7mins) into your morning cuppa then a Drip filter like the V60, Chemix, an aeropress or even a good French press will give you a better cup of coffee. The key here is freshly ground beans are the best and so a decent grinder is essential to get the best of the best. Of course, none of these will give you an espresso.
Coffee is a massive rabbit hole and I would recommend watching James Hoffmann on YouTube as he explains the different methods of coffeee brewing including Nespresso and reviews many pieces of equipment. He is a great starting place.
Below is an example of a quick and dirty cup
coffee with my V60 set up
More usually brewed into a server with a ratio of 15:1 water to beans.
Question with the V60 into the serving receptacle, does this get warmed first, as otherwise you have cold receptacle and then cold cup, so twice the cooling.
I’ve never researched coffee but have seen friends go down said rabbit hole, and what to avoid it!
What's the budget?!I’m on a 400 quid machine so what the next step
I've got a Lelit Mara X. I got this as I needed something that the Mrs could use too (i.e. just turn it on and use without having to learn or understand a whole bunch of things).
For what you sound like you want, I would also suggest starting with a moka pot and a milk frother and see if that suits your needs. Personally I would also suggest a cheap burr grinder too, as that makes a fresher tasting brew IMO.
You can then go down the rabbit hole later if the mood takes you, but you haven't invested a substantial chunk of money.
My thoughts too
Bialetti 3 cup moka express (£25 ish)
Bodum Latteo frother (like a french press, microwave the milk in the glass, add the plunger and give it a few pumps) (£20 ish)
Hario hand grinder (£25-30 ish)
Then see how you get on, if hand grinding becomes a chore, which it probably will after a while, look at getting an electric one, the iberital MC2 from Happy Donkey is a good place to start fro £150
I was off coffee until COVID lockdown, but now a daily habit to have a pot around mid morning.
I now have a Mokka pot and a cheap Krupps bean grinder - about to invest in a burr grinder.
I'm no coffee connoisseur, but my coffee tastes immeasurably better that anything bought from Starbucks et al.
We’ve got a Gaggia Platinum Vision bean to cup machine. Had it for years now and it’s been excellent - well worth the outlay.
I may be wrong but for a mokka I’d just get a good quality ground bean (course) like Illy. It’s what most Italians have done for decades
No you are right. I brought this to replace my Citz right at the beginning of lockdown and before I fell down the hole as I was using 2 capsules to get a large coffee and thought the Vertuo might be a good option. I didn’t realise it just foams the coffee rather develop a crema via pressure. If you stir the coffee then that helps and actually makes the coffee taste better but I would not buy one again. I just keep it on when I need a quick coffee or wish an espresso like shot for martinis!
Yes it is warmed as I rinse the filter with hot water before any the coffee grounds. The excess water warms the server nicely. I then throw this water away before doing my pour. I use a 2 cup server and find that my coffee stays nicely warm for around 40+ mins. Another bonus for me is that as the second cup is much cooler than the first, I find the flavour profile changes with more fruits coming out and so I get 2 differing coffees for the sake making no one. If you get my meaning!
It is a constant battle not to get an aeropress, a chemex or even more exciting a Japanese style siphon coffee maker. My wife tries to keeps me grounded. However, I have invested in pouring kettles, grinders, French presses, vacuum coffee canisters, scales, cups, cold brewers. Plus I now only get my beans from a speciality Roaster which are never older than 5 days from roasting. So my cost to cup is higher than the Nespresso!
Last edited by paw3001; 24th January 2022 at 23:01.
What’s the benefit of an expensive grinder over a cheaper one?
I usually use Cafe Direct Machu Pichu but Illy’s quite nice
Apparently a burr grinder is better than a cheap blade grinder like the Krupps grinder I have but couldn’t tell you why. I think they produce a more consistent grind but I’m sure someone will be along soon to enlighten us.
Well……….. I’ll break out the Aeropress and try it with freshly-ground good beans, but I can’t help but expect that I’ll be disappointed compared to an Espresso machine results…………
Look back at all those who maintained that they went to Macdonald’s because “the coffee is as good as Starbucks/Costa et all”…………. It isn’t - it’s dire sh1t.
Yes, more consistent grind. I dodged the eBay scalpers and bought a Niche Zero grinder from the UK vendors, And it is excellent.
The difference is that the burr grinder actually grind the beans, whereas the blade jobbies just thrash them to bits. So the grind can be very inconsistent. The blades also generate heat, which is considered to alter the delicate flavour profile of your fancy beans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK0F5PqJ1Gk
Moka pots are complicated :-)
If you want a frothy coffee then the simplest solution is Nespresso machine that can do them. You can often get deals that make the actual unit virtually free. The actual cost per coffee is not that different to buying decent beans and grinding them. Just the latter will probably be better coffee. Or just go with a straight filter coffee as the solutions are a lot cheaper and give better actual coffees. So a V60, Chemex or Aeropress with a hand grinder.
As others have said: good beans pre-ground at your local roasters, a stove-top espresso maker (or an Aeropress) & a milk frother is your best bet. Next step up is usually a reconditioned Gaggia Classic, but after that there's a massive leap in cost/quality. Good quality second hand burr grinder makes all the difference as well, for the reasons given above.
I went stovetop > Gaggia Classic > ECM Mechanika Slim (https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/ecm-m...ka-v-slim.html) & je ne regrette rien.
Absolutely love my Delonghi Dedica
I use pre-ground LaVazza coffees
https://youtu.be/vxUvnKGqWS0
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Absolutely love my Delonghi Dedica
I use pre-ground LaVazza coffees
https://youtu.be/vxUvnKGqWS0
Sent from my Redmi Note 9 Pro using Tapatalk
This looks right up my alley - good price point, well-reviewed etc...
I had one of those for several years and it worked fine. It might have been Krupps branded from memory. I didn’t get great results from the steamer/foamer so bought a separate Dualit milk foamer from John Lewis for less than £50 and it makes great foam. I reckon Cravendale milk foams best.
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A Niche Zero is the next coffee purchase on my list. At the moment I'm using a Made By Knock Aergrind, which is fantastic and but can be a bit of a pain when I want to make a quick flat white between meetings.
I recently got a Sage Bambino Plus as my first espresso machine and I'm really impressed.
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