Sensible tbhOriginally Posted by Alansmithee
My teams talk to a lot of businesses and if it helps I'd be happy to put some in touch with you if you are looking to grow that other side of your business assuming recruitment will be on hold for now (which it will but perhaps not for as long as people think).
Very kind of you Ryan I've sent you a PM
Government to pay 80% of wages for employees not working, up to £2,500 a month, Chancellor Rishi Sunak says ...
What about sole traders?
You get nothing but you do get to defer your July 31st tax payment in account till Jan 31st 2021. Of course this is potentially quite a scary thing and I will endeavor to be paying my dues on July 31st as normal. There was also mention that you could be entitled for universal credit along the lines of SSP.
Does seem unfair.
I guess there is so much to sort out they deal with the biggest groups first ... this is a mamouth challenge for the nation.
Fair play to Boris and the Conservatives, they have done well for the British workers today and this is why I vote for them.....
BUT - Although my staff are now happy(ier) what about the business owners who take wages as dividends based on profit, Will there be any profit this year??
100% of my staff will be richer than myself at the end of next month I think.
Then can’t you pay yourself a wage?
You can pay a bonus
No doubt some business owners will be coming up with ways to milk this.
100%
Care to elaborate?
agreed.
Bet there are plenty out there who will milk the self isolation now SSP has been scrapped and know they will get 80% of their wage, an amazing gesture by the government but will be taken advantage of I’m sure and probably by the snowflakes who have had all the food and toilet roll!
I can’t see how it can be milked, HMRC pay the 80%, business get nothing employee gets the benefit?
Could be used to keep struggling (before corona) businesses afloat.
I'm zero hours contract working for a company with huge debt apparently having just spoken to our union man!.Will they drop us in which case we get nothing,or keep us and so we get I assume an average of earnings over?,or with massive debt decide to just fold.Then it's SSP for everyone.
And if SSP with a Wife working 30 hours a week get nothing,and with savings too,which we've done since leaving school back in 1976,and saved into a pension,both of which a government wants us to do,and then when you knock on the door for help,they ask,do you have any other income coming into your household,do you have any savings,and if yes.......sorry sod off and come back when you've exhausted ALL the money we asked you to save inc your pension pot you took.....good bye.....
Next....oh your an immigrant,please sit down Sir,Wife and 4 children,yes we can help you no problem just sign here!.....
I have a gardening business with one other Director and six employees. We don’t pay ourselves much more with dividends than the employees get in PAYE. I’m unsure as to whether we would get equal help during any lockdown period if we were forced not to work.
Last edited by Lammylee; 20th March 2020 at 22:33.
[QUOTE=Montello;5356806]Government to pay 80% of wages for employees not working, up to £2,500 a month, Chancellor Rishi Sunak says ...
I don't think it works like that...the 80% is a loan interest free that the companies, if accepted, must return to HMRC
This thread needs more xenophobia. Well done.
I wonder why the people who have the biggest dislike for foreigners are always the same who cannot spell in their own language?
Ah that makes sense otherwise it’s UBi which seems too good to be true.
Huge move by the government, but as you say sole traders and very small businesses (who don't have employees or significant premises) get very little.
[QUOTE=cirotti;5357119]Thank you for clarifying this, that makes sense.
I’m still not convinced this 80% thing is going to be easy to claim for my staff.
I will endeavour to pay my staff their full wage anyway.
I also take a small salary and my dividend monthly. I’m pretty sure my staff are going to earn multiples of what am the next few months.
[QUOTE=cirotti;5357119]Do you have a link with more information? I was fairly sure this 80% of wages was described as a ‘grant’. I’m not sure a ‘loan’ would have the same effect, I can’t see many companies agreeing to take on the debt of wages of people that they can just get rid of.
Just that you could choose to pay yourself s bonus if dividends aren’t possible due to drop in profits. Ofc tax is different to dividends but an accountant will earn his corn here
I guess you're a foreigner?,but I dislike you simply because of all the shite you post.......prick.
Maybe your a great laugh f2f hey?.
You just want to fight all the time don't you Raffe!
Fixed Your to you're for the prick Raffe.......or is that Pric,prik......or prick,all sound the same,so they all fit U or is it yew or just plain YOU.
Last edited by P9CLY; 21st March 2020 at 08:58.
Your/you're
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
[QUOTE=cirotti;5357119]Clearly you have not heard the Chancellor speak and have not read the documents either.... it is a grant
How to access the scheme
You will need to:
designate affected employees as ‘furloughed workers,’ and notify your employees of this change - changing the status of employees remains subject to existing employment law and, depending on the employment contract, may be subject to negotiation
submit information to HMRC about the employees that have been furloughed and their earnings through a new online portal (HMRC will set out further details on the information required)
HMRC will reimburse 80% of furloughed workers wage costs, up to a cap of £2,500 per month. HMRC are working urgently to set up a system for reimbursement. Existing systems are not set up to facilitate payments to employers.
If your business needs short term cash flow support, you may be eligible for a Coronavirus Business Interruption Loan.
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...for-businesses
I have two things to add;
Firstly, I think the chancellor's slip of saying 'Shops' instead of 'Bars, Cafes etc' points towards more closures imminently.
Secondly, I own a garage. For the purposes of business rates, I'm named as a 'Vehicle Repair Station' which as far as i know, is light industrial, not retail.
So my worry is, although I deal with the public, and sell goods and services to them, I may fall between the gaps in terms of support.
I think a lot of us will fall between the gaps Dave, I'm waiting to see what they're going to do about the building industry. There are millions of us self employed without contracts that travel from site to site for work, if it closes down it will cause massive problems. Not just the tradesmen but also the suppliers who again employ hundreds of thousands of people.. I'm going to buy enough materials for a few houses so that if the merchants close I will be able to work for a few weeks as long as they don't ban travel. Unlike you I have very minimal overheads,worrying times but I hope it works out for you
Pretty much the whole supply chain has to keep working albeit at a slower and more careful pace. Vehicles will still need MoT certificates so still need testing. Repairs need to be done. Parts are needed for repairs, etc. My reading is this is a slow-down and distancing phase rather than a shut down phase.
That’s what I’m thinking mate. How do directors get paid if they don’t pay them selves a paye wage but just get the profits ?
Although that’s a bit of a “gimme” because it’s not due until July, so he’s not technically given anything.
I’ll also add, it’s also the money “upfront” or on account so to speak.
Tax mot due until end of Jan 2021 but us self employed lot have to pay 2 lots of 50% upfront.
If I pass away before 2021, they had my money that I needn’t have paid...
A bit of ease might be if they refunded the January payment on account, or some of it .... a bit like they’re helping out business/premises with grants....
Rishi did say they will help everyone out....?
We will see. Hope he does something - the self employed are ignored time and again
Directors can be employees in which case they receive a PAYE salary and probably a bonus also subject to PAYE. Wages and bonuses can be paid from borrowings if needed - so company can use OD to pay wages.
Shareholders receive dividends and possibly make a capital gain on their shares. Dividends are decided by the directors and can only awarded from the profits (although it can be previous years retained profits if deemed necessary).
Many directors will also be shareholders and will often take a low or zero salary (directors are not subject to minimum wage) and rely on dividends or in some cases capital gains alone for their remuneration.
I received this from my accountant-
First of all, I hope that you and your family are all OK and haven't been hit with the virus.
I just wanted to give some assurances that we are still fully operational and here to help with the usual work and also any fallout/implications from Coronavirus. We are well aware this is a stressful time for everyone and we are fully committed to help wherever possible. The team are all now working from home but this should have no impact on the work we do for you.
As you are no doubt aware there have been various announcements this week, not least a huge announcement earlier this evening. I'm still in the process of digesting this and what it means so I'll send a follow up in due course.
However, some key points to bear in mind:
There is a handy summary of the government's key announcements here https://www.gov.uk/government/public...for-businesses
For businesses with premises there is the possibility of a grant of between £10k & £25k. More details are on the webpage linked above. I believe your local authority will be in touch about this if you are eligible. Note, this is a grant and is not repayable.
Businesses in retail, hospitality and leisure sectors will pay no business rates from April 2020 to March 2021.
There will be government support for staff wages, but my initial thoughts on this are that it's not available for everyone. It is only to cover wages of those that would otherwise be made redundant. Individuals would have to be registered as 'furloughed'. Furloughed means 'mandatory time off with no pay' according to the webpage above. From my initial reading this could be massively abused so I would expect there would have to be some form of checks and balances to ensure employees registered as furloughed actually are. At this stage I don't know a great deal more than that so will keep in touch about this.
HMRC are being very relaxed about time to pay arrangements for any taxes due, although this is a deferral of tax so it will need to be paid in future.
VAT payments falling due between today and 30 June do not need to be paid on the usual due dates. Payment will be required by 5 April 2021 though. The idea being it gives a cash flow injection now while other support measures are put in place. You don't need to apply for this as it is automatically granted.
There is a Business Interruption Loan Scheme launching, I believe, on Monday. The loans will come from the banks and the government will guarantee 80% of the loan value. This means that the borrower would be responsible for repaying all of the loan, but in the event of default the government would cover 80% of the outstanding balance.
This should mean that underwriting criteria are relaxed, although to what extent I don't know. Crucially, there are no repayments or interest due for 12 months. I have heard that these loans will be available for 'viable' businesses. I assume this means there will be some underwriting to go through and they are not guaranteed for every application.
I'm a little torn on what to make of these. If you are in a position where revenues are being deferred due to the virus rather than lost, an interest free (for 12 months) loan makes perfect sense. However using a loan to cover lost revenue could be dangerous as the loan will have to be repaid. Therefore if revenue is simply lost, when things get back to normal the business will have to cover its costs and the loan repayments from its revenues. This could potentially put unmanageable pressure on the business finances. I would suggest giving this some serious thought before taking the loan out.
On the other hand, it may well make sense to get a loan regardless while they are available and simply sit on the cash. That way if you don't need it, you simply pay it back before 12 months and it's cost nothing, but given you peace of mind and security in the meantime.
Notable areas of silence from the government are for sole traders/partnerships and those that work from home. As things stand these people and businesses seem to have been largely ignored in the support packages. That said, given the pace at which things have changed it is possibile this could be addressed next week.
I think that covers all of the key points so far. I will keep in touch over the coming days and months with any further changes and how these might impact on you.
One initial thought is that, whilst the support measures announced are most definitely welcome and helpful, much of the support involves borrowing whether in the form of loans and/or deferring tax payments. As a result it will be very easy to run up eye-watering debts that will, at some stage, need to be paid. Therefore it will be more important than ever to keep a close watch over your financial position and to know where you stand with regard to future liabilities, when they will fall due and how they are going to be paid. Obviously we will help wherever we can to provide clarity over this.
Finally, I would like to reiterate that all of the team here are committed to continuing to help and advise wherever possible. As you no doubt understand this situation will be more critical and stressful for some clients than others. While we will continue to provide our usual service, I'm anticipating a lot more ad hoc work for us than usual.
Given every day the government crosses lines a few days before they say they will not - i would work on the basis that a travel ban will happen sooner or later.
You noticed this too, constantly playing catch up with this thing is no recipe for success, more likely the opposite.
Slowly slowly catchy monkey.
Hard not too. If asked about closing London, rationing or whatever better deny it than say we might do it in a few days time and create further chaos.
Being a one man band so to speak, never had time to get on top it late Jan, but a new accountant I spoke
to said I should close the business down and set up a Ltd company.
I didn’t realise he saw all this coming!!!!
If he I did, theoretically I would have been on minimum wage, no doubt for tax purposes, which I would be eligible for 80% of... which would probably be 100% more than the universal credit amount that’s currently on the table...
Que sera.....
Its not really an upfront payment as its tax for 2019-20 which has been and gone by 31st July but the amount is not finalised until return is completed, PAYE employees will have already paid as they earn. God forbid you died before Jan 2021 but your tax would still be due for 2019-20. I agree that the first payment on account could/should be repaid to help people out.
Jan 2020, if my tax bill was £5000 for 2018/19, but ive only paid £4000, i have to top it up by £1k to make the £5k. I also have to pay £2.5k on account and again in July. So
come jan 2021, i have already paid £5k upfront. If my tax bill is £5k, i theoretically have already paid it, but still have to pay 50% of that again so £2.5k to pay, and again in July.
They make it sound polite by saying payment on account rather than payment up front.
I suppose in simplistic terms its the same as going to Tesco and spending £100 on food, but they say the bill is £150, because £50 goes towards your next weeks bill....?
Nope.
In simple terms, it's the same as receiving a monthly salary and having to pay taxes on that month by month rather than having the opportunity of paying it at the beginning of next year.
I own a wholesale business (hard goods), if shops are forced to close I'm left with monthly running costs in hundreds of thousands, plus millions in inventory. It's a good business, we can sustain some heat, but not for months and months.
It's not payment up front, you're paying 50% of your estimated tax for 19-20 on 31st January 2020 (10 months into the tax year) and the second 50% estimate on 31st July 2020, 4 months after the end of the tax year when all PAYE have already paid in full month by month for 19-20. Final settlement is due 31st January 2021 to allow accounts etc. to be completed.
Of course. Thats right...You seen my tax returns right?
You clearly miss the closed thread in the bear pit....
In full: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52043896
Summary
Banks have been criticised by firms and MPs for insisting on personal guarantees to issue government-backed emergency loans
It means that the banks can go after the personal property of the owner of a firm if their business goes under
Barclays has told customers they will be required to sign personal guarantees to access the government-supported emergency finance.
But the use of personal guarantees shifts the risk from the bank and the government on to the business owner themselves.
If a loan of £100,000 was made to a failed business and the owner had signed a personal guarantee, the bank would first repossess the assets of the owner or the business. Only then would the government step in to cover 80% of whatever loss remained and the bank would only have to fund whatever was left after that
... " We would appreciate some clarity because, as things stand, the proposed loans mean the banks have no risk, the government has a small risk and businesses and their officers have 100% risk "
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