When stocks rebound, WHERE best to invest?

[Martylaa]

The point is there is no normal at the moment, and people are conspiring to significantly impact the financial markets.

If you had suggested one day before it happened that a group of disparate people would conspire to increase GME, AMC, NAKD stock price 100 fold, and try to collapse certain hedges, you would have been laughed off the forum.

The irony for me is that he became part of the conspiracy, and made a profit in the process.


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Who???


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[peterdo]

You could write a dissertation on investor behaviours just in this thread.

To summarise:

- everyone would agree market manipulation is wrong / illegal
- doesn’t matter which directoon you think the stocks / assets will go (long/short) it’s still illegal
- doesn’t matter if you are a hedge fund, billionaire or small investor with your stimulus cheque

So what has happened over the last few weeks?

Some professional investors and hedge funds bet that a dog stock that can’t make money and is basically reaching the end of its existence with major changes (GameStop) and therefore, legally take a short position in that stock

At the same time, a social media forum decides to poke those hedgies in the eye by coordinating a ramping of that stock that ignores its fundamentals and increases the stock value by 50x. Everyone starts to buy in on those rumours and the stock is no longer hinged to any fundamentals of its business

So how does it play out?

A couple of hedge funds get absolutely smashed, a few private investors make an absolute fortune, some other hedge funds and billionaires probably make more than the retail guys combined, but as they are on their side, no biggie

In the meantime, the market participants end up with liquidity strain on settlement risks and are probably told by regulators to shut down the circus as its role is to promote properly functioning markets, not to become a Caesar’s Palace with stimmie cheques and 401ks.

Everyone who was long starts losing the plot and claiming that the markets are rigged in favour of hedge funds and billionaires and politicians start getting involved and brokers will go under by as the anger turns to RH and Interactive Brokers etc

Conclusion

The Reddit Bois colluded on a faceless social media platform to undertake the most obvious form of market manipulation you can find. But because the victim was a regulated hedge fund, who actually had done nothing wrong, then it’s all good in one’a hood?

Give me a break, it’s an absolute scandal and questions the integrity of the market, where a dud company worth $500m dollars is now sitting with a market cap of $13.5bn

The reality is, the money will be made when this corrects down the way and the hedge funds will make more money from GNE than they could ever imagine, then the stimmie cheques that were late to the party will lose everything

——————————————————-

Sorry for the long post, but some of the perspective in here is so skewed I’m not surprised Raffe bailed...


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[noTAGlove]

Who???


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Oh, do keep up at the back of the class!

[Bondurant]

Today’s date is 1st Jan 2021, and I have a conspiracy theory that a bunch of kids on a Reddit platform are going to disrupt the whole financial system causing some stocks to increase 100 fold, and to bring some hedge funds to the point of collapse.

Without hindsight, what do you think?

I wouldn't term it quite like you did. If someone had said a lot of retail investors would be loosely coordinated on a massive subreddit to pump 3 or 4 stocks and a hedge fund would lose billions as a result I would have been sceptical for sure.

It seems way more possible than your most recent theory about the global financial system being brought down by manipulating the price of sliver mind you, but maybe I'll be eating humble pie on Monday.

[Peck]

The point is there is no normal at the moment, and people are conspiring to significantly impact the financial markets.

If you had suggested one day before it happened that a group of disparate people would conspire to increase GME, AMC, NAKD stock price 100 fold, and try to collapse certain hedges, you would have been laughed off the forum.

The irony for me is that he became part of the conspiracy, and made a profit in the process.


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This thread benefitted greatly from someone who actually understands the markets and was prepared to take the time to give in depth explanations of quite complex situations. I know next to nothing about the mechanics of markets, am trying to learn, and Raffe helped me greatly (both on this thread and via PM). He shared his insight on NAKD, making a few of us (and the fundraiser) quite a bit of money.

So, at the end of the day I think the fact you’re still here posting and he isn’t makes this a considerably less interesting and useful thread. So thanks!

[noTAGlove]

I’m not surprised Raffe bailed...

Anyone who made money off the back of NAKD etc. conspired with the Reddit mafia. I’m not knocking it. Well done if you made money and good luck to you. I wish I was part of it.

I have no axe to grind here. But, I am not a fan of double standards. Flouncing off for conspiracy theories (which compared to GME etc. are not that much of a stretch) when you’ve just made a chunk of money from conspiring is the ultimate irony.

[Passenger]

I hope Raffe returns to the thread. Whether or not conspiracy theories crept onto the thread, it's pretty hard to argue, in the face of recent events, that conspiracy facts haven't indeed influenced markets.

[peterdo]

Anyone who made money off the back of NAKD etc. conspired with the Reddit mafia. I’m not knocking it. Well done if you made money and good luck to you. I wish I was part of it.

I have no axe to grind here. But, I am not a fan of double standards. Flouncing off for conspiracy theories (which compared to GME etc. are not that much of a stretch) when you’ve just made a chunk of money from conspiring is the ultimate irony.

Again though, you’re ignoring the legal vs illegal angle

Those that deliberately set out on Reddit to ramp the stock should be prosecuted, those that just joined in, you won’t get near them

I would argue Raffe saw herd mentality for what it was and could see what was going to happen, therefore why ignore it?


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[noTAGlove]

I hope Raffe returns to the thread. Whether or not conspiracy theories crept onto the thread, it's pretty hard to argue, in the face of recent events, that conspiracy facts haven't indeed influenced markets.

I hope he comes back too. I enjoyed readings his posts on this thread.

[peterdo]

I hope Raffe returns to the thread. Whether or not conspiracy theories crept onto the thread, it's pretty hard to argue, in the face of recent events, that conspiracy facts haven't indeed influenced markets.

It’s not conspiracy, it’s ramping, which is illegal

At the end of this, there will be retail clients that bought in at $300 holding something worthless, that’s the tragic part


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[Passenger]

It’s not conspiracy, it’s ramping, which is illegal

At the end of this, there will be retail clients that bought in at $300 holding something worthless, that’s the tragic part


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Hardly tragic it's just money and they hopefully learnt a lesson about the integrity of the market, the new normal, FOMO and not gambling what they can't afford to lose.

[peterdo]

That won’t be your typical user of Reddit discussion forums


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[noTAGlove]

It’s not conspiracy, it’s ramping, which is illegal

Whether it is ramping of conspiring, it can only be determined by a court of law. Which will never happen for the broad masses as there are millions of them.

I don’t know if you read the Reddit threads, but I have and it goes well beyond ramping.

[Swissz]

You could write a dissertation on investor behaviours just in this thread.

To summarise:

- everyone would agree market manipulation is wrong / illegal
- doesn’t matter which directoon you think the stocks / assets will go (long/short) it’s still illegal
- doesn’t matter if you are a hedge fund, billionaire or small investor with your stimulus cheque

So what has happened over the last few weeks?

Some professional investors and hedge funds bet that a dog stock that can’t make money and is basically reaching the end of its existence with major changes (GameStop) and therefore, legally take a short position in that stock

At the same time, a social media forum decides to poke those hedgies in the eye by coordinating a ramping of that stock that ignores its fundamentals and increases the stock value by 50x. Everyone starts to buy in on those rumours and the stock is no longer hinged to any fundamentals of its business

So how does it play out?

A couple of hedge funds get absolutely smashed, a few private investors make an absolute fortune, some other hedge funds and billionaires probably make more than the retail guys combined, but as they are on their side, no biggie

In the meantime, the market participants end up with liquidity strain on settlement risks and are probably told by regulators to shut down the circus as its role is to promote properly functioning markets, not to become a Caesar’s Palace with stimmie cheques and 401ks.

Everyone who was long starts losing the plot and claiming that the markets are rigged in favour of hedge funds and billionaires and politicians start getting involved and brokers will go under by as the anger turns to RH and Interactive Brokers etc

Conclusion

The Reddit Bois colluded on a faceless social media platform to undertake the most obvious form of market manipulation you can find. But because the victim was a regulated hedge fund, who actually had done nothing wrong, then it’s all good in one’a hood?

Give me a break, it’s an absolute scandal and questions the integrity of the market, where a dud company worth $500m dollars is now sitting with a market cap of $13.5bn

The reality is, the money will be made when this corrects down the way and the hedge funds will make more money from GNE than they could ever imagine, then the stimmie cheques that were late to the party will lose everything

——————————————————-

Sorry for the long post, but some of the perspective in here is so skewed I’m not surprised Raffe bailed...


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So hedge funds using counterfeit shares to spiral down the price of a stock in an organized fashion among them using their friendly media and being plugged into brokers like RH to give them edge on the market movements - that's all well and you don't see a problem in it?

[mangoosian]

So hedge funds using counterfeit shares to spiral down the price of a stock in an organized fashion among them using their friendly media and being plugged into brokers like RH to give them edge on the market movements - that's all well and you don't see a problem in it?

Spot on.

How can >100% short not be criticised in the previous post. Double standards.

Anyway it looks like Citadel's antics may be looked into which can only be a good thing.

[noTAGlove]

It seems way more possible than your most recent theory about the global financial system being brought down by manipulating the price of sliver mind you, but maybe I'll be eating humble pie on Monday.

I do not have a theory. I was merely quoting that the next target on the Reddit sub forum is JPM because they have a massive short position in SLV.

Take that as you will, but amazed it has generated such storm in a teacup.

But, if you would have said one month before the credit default swap crisis in 2008 that Lehman Bros and Bear Stearns would go bankrupt in one months time, you would have rightly giggled.

Stranger things have happened. Maybe you can’t bring JPM down by crowd sourcing SLV, but I am sure you can make them a lot uncomfortable.

If SLV is pumped it will put a major downward pressure on stocks just as it did in 1980.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Thursday

Sometimes a butterfly flapping it wings can cause a typhoon. And that’s more likely given the events around GME.

You would think I had posted something like I disagreed with the moon landings, or Elvis Presley does really live on the moon.


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[noTAGlove]

Anyway, back on topic. Just need a certain Mr. Musk to wade in on twitter now.

[ryanb741]

Check out the silver bullion dealers. Most have run out of bullion to sell unless it is a large bar!

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[noTAGlove]

Check out the silver bullion dealers. Most have run out of bullion to sell unless it is a large bar!

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I will buy some SSLN tomorrow. I know there is always a small risk as it is not physically in my possession.

Buy on a rumour, sell on a fact.

[ryanb741]

I will buy some SSLN tomorrow. I know there is always a small risk as it is not physically in my possession.

Buy on a rumour, sell on a fact.

iShares? Me too btw.

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[Montello]

Anyway, back on topic. Just need a certain Mr. Musk to wade in on twitter now.

These characters tweeting this stuff that their disciples blindly follow is a disturbing trend.

People thinking Papa Musk, the richest man in the world is one of them sticking it to the establishment for the little guys are deluded.

[Swissz]

NAKD seems to gain momentum on reddit.

[Justin Case]

A pile in on silver is coming tomorrow, to play or not to play.

[noTAGlove]

I will buy some SSLN tomorrow. I know there is always a small risk as it is not physically in my possession.

Buy on a rumour, sell on a fact.

Yep. I use AJBell.

At least you can get in before the masses in America wake up.

[noTAGlove]

These characters tweeting this stuff that their disciples blindly follow is a disturbing trend.

People thinking Papa Musk, the richest man in the world is one of them sticking it to the establishment for the little guys are deluded.

Winklevoss is not short of a bob or two either.


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[Bondurant]

I wonder if he really believes he is one of the little people or whether he just wants to make a few quid.

[Montello]

I wonder if he really believes he is one of the little people or whether he just wants to make a few quid.

Errr ... what do you think ...

[Bondurant]

There are some truly deluded people around

[mr noble]

Will be watching this with great interest.

I don’t really understand why JPM would have huge shorts on silver, though.

I put 20% of my entire portfolio in to SSLN and 20% into SGLN back in the summer. I figured it was a good plan as when lots of money printing takes place, that leads to inflation, and usually the price of commodities firms up as an inflation shelter.

Plus, it used to be basic investing lesson 1, that when equities rise gold falls and visa versa. That trend seems to have withered since Bitcoin came along, and now, nothing that’s written in the 2010 guide to investing is actually happening. It’s all gone bonkers.

My bet on commodities did well initially and by mid autumn I was over 60% up on the silver and 20% up on the gold. I didn’t sell. Then it all fell back and as of last Monday it was only 25% up on the silver and back to even on the gold.

Maybe this silver market madness will happen, maybe it won’t. Certainly sounds like it will if the man on the street is saying they’re buying silver today and tomorrow.


I best get my silver tea pot polished up, ready to flog on Tuesday.

[tertius]

I have some physical silver which I shall be open to outrageous offers on ... priced in bitcoin of course ... 🙂

[ryanb741]

Apes Together Strong

P.S. We like the stock.

[Chinnock]

Apes Together Strong

P.S. We like the stock.

Monkey keep banana!

[Swissz]

SLV is only a deflection tactic for the redditors and everybody else playing the game to go into the "new GME" where Citadel is 5th largest holder.

The real market manipulation. They haven't closed their positions.

[Bondurant]

So hedge funds using counterfeit shares to spiral down the price of a stock in an organized fashion among them using their friendly media and being plugged into brokers like RH to give them edge on the market movements - that's all well and you don't see a problem in it?

I had a quick look to see if any of this is verifiable and came up short, would you happen to have any links so I can read up on it please?

[Bondurant]

I think I've found at least one part of it. Bottom line is that no hedge funds have any sight of RobinHood order flows, but market makers of course do, and there is a Citadel that is a market maker, hence some confusion.

Any further links on the other pieces would be appreciated (thanks).

[noTAGlove]

I think I have changed my mind on SSLN now.

All physical silver is sold out or pulled everywhere. By the time you try to buy it a 8am tomorrow morning it will have sky-rocketed already. Whether it will keep the gains is anybody’s guess.

The time to buy was Friday. Much more risk has been added now.

Hopefully SGLN gets carried along.

[Swissz]

I had a quick look to see if any of this is verifiable and came up short, would you happen to have any links so I can read up on it please?

https://fortune.com/2020/07/08/robin...that-so-wrong/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpMEFtPZJLc

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/28/i...ets/index.html

https://finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=gme

[Bondurant]

OK

So the hedge fund claim is wrong as far as I can see, it's market makers that take RobinHood orders.

The class action thing I read about elsewhere. Raffe's link upthread about the real reasons were more convincing (basically they didn't have enough money to cover the trades).

I'll have a look at the video also.

[Swissz]

OK

So the hedge fund claim is wrong as far as I can see, it's market makers that take RobinHood orders.

The class action thing I read about elsewhere. Raffe's link upthread about the real reasons were more convincing (basically they didn't have enough money to cover the trades).

I'll have a look at the video also.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...301214477.html

RH and many other are still restricting buying of GME stock. Do they still not have money?

[ViperStripes]

I think I have changed my mind on SSLN now.

All physical silver is sold out or pulled everywhere. By the time you try to buy it a 8am tomorrow morning it will have sky-rocketed already. Whether it will keep the gains is anybody’s guess.

The time to buy was Friday. Much more risk has been added now.

Hopefully SGLN gets carried along.

On PLus500 & etoro the market opens at 11pm tonight

[Bondurant]

I have no idea how much they would need so it's hard for me to say, but I will continue to read up on it. As I said, I was more convinced by the alternative explanation.

There's a lot of conjecture, just as there is for the antivaxx movement, and a lot of it does not stand up to scrutiny even if a million people on WSB have been convinced of X or Y.

[Raffe]

Came back to check on the thread. Apparently hedge funds are using counterfeit shares and JPM is manipulating the price of silver. The only thing that's still missing is the Jewish world conspiracy, but I am sure it's only a day until George Soros is being dragged into this.

For those of you who are not interested in conspiracy theories and simple but wrong answers, I can only recommend this video. The situation is complex and there is a lot that's going on. Cem Karsan and Kris Sidial are two of the most sophisticated option traders out there and provide lots of insight. Short attention span punters don't need to bother.

Take care and best of luck, it's going to be a wild week.

[noTAGlove]

Came back to check on the thread. Apparently hedge funds are using counterfeit shares and JPM is manipulating the price of silver. The only thing that's still missing is the Jewish world conspiracy, but I am sure it's only a day until George Soros is being dragged into this.

For those of you who are not interested in conspiracy theories and simple but wrong answers, I can only recommend this video. The situation is complex and there is a lot that's going on. Cem Karsan and Kris Sidial are two of the most sophisticated option traders out there and provide lots of insight. Short attention span punters don't need to bother.

Take care and best of luck, it's going to be a wild week.

Welcome back.


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[~dadam02~]

Silver starts the week 6% up, who knows where it will end up. Good luck to those in it.

[ryanb741]

Came back to check on the thread. Apparently hedge funds are using counterfeit shares and JPM is manipulating the price of silver. The only thing that's still missing is the Jewish world conspiracy, but I am sure it's only a day until George Soros is being dragged into this.

For those of you who are not interested in conspiracy theories and simple but wrong answers, I can only recommend this video. The situation is complex and there is a lot that's going on. Cem Karsan and Kris Sidial are two of the most sophisticated option traders out there and provide lots of insight. Short attention span punters don't need to bother.

Take care and best of luck, it's going to be a wild week.

Can't believe you forgot the bit about the Bill Gates microchips in the vaccines. On tuesday the signal will be sent and everyone vaccinated by then will have their minds controlled to buy Nokia stock.

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[noTAGlove]

The FTSE at the time of the Pfizer announcement on 9 Nov was trading at 5910.

The futures are saying it is not going to open much beyond 6300 tomorrow morning.

Nearly 3 months later and multiple vaccine announcements the FTSE is up just 6.5%. DJIA is up just 5%

It doesn’t feel like there is any good news on the horizon either. There’s going to be significant pressure on the SM this week.

[classics]

iShares? Me too btw.

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Purchased 90 units last summer currently I'm 9.64% down.

[pacifichrono]

At this moment, the Dow Futures are (MISTAKE). Even my alternative energy and 5G stocks are getting hammered!

[Raffe]

At this moment, the Dow Futures are down 621 points. Even my alternative energy and 5G stocks are getting hammered!

In which universe?

[pacifichrono]

In which universe?

You are (of course) right. I was looking at the wrong number.