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Thread: When stocks rebound, WHERE best to invest?

  1. #8551
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    Seems SVB (UK) has been bought by HSBC for 1.

  2. #8552
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Well played HSBC. They are now the single biggest investor in EMEA tech and biosciences assets

  3. #8553
    And only cost a quid

    Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

  4. #8554
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daveya. View Post
    And only cost a quid

    Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
    It'll cost much more. Much more.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  5. #8555
    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    It'll cost much more. Much more.
    Yeah I couldn't find a sarcastic smiley

    Wonder how many sirs and lords the Tories hand to hand out to make this happen

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  6. #8556
    Rough day for some

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  7. #8557
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daveya. View Post
    Rough day for some

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    Sir, this is a casino

  8. #8558
    I hope my pension man gambled wisely

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  9. #8559
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daveya. View Post
    Yeah I couldn't find a sarcastic smiley

    Wonder how many sirs and lords the Tories hand to hand out to make this happen

    Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
    HSBC PLANS TO INJECT 2 BILLION OF LIQUIDITY INTO SVB UK
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  10. #8560

  11. #8561
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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  12. #8562
    I will probably massively regret this, but as an experiment I just bought 24 of the most beaten up stocks in the FTSE 250, without any diligence or research (half of them I have never even heard of) and put 300 in each of them.

    If it pays off, I may try again with another index. If it tanks then that is the end of that fun.

  13. #8563
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    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    I will probably massively regret this, but as an experiment I just bought 24 of the most beaten up stocks in the FTSE 250, without any diligence or research (half of them I have never even heard of) and put 300 in each of them.

    If it pays off, I may try again with another index. If it tanks then that is the end of that fun.
    I did this with airline stocks during the volcanic ash drama. Made a nice little packet

  14. #8564
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    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    I will probably massively regret this, but as an experiment I just bought 24 of the most beaten up stocks in the FTSE 250, without any diligence or research (half of them I have never even heard of) and put 300 in each of them.
    I can remember you putting together a portfolio of "defensive, relatively high divi companies that haven’t yet done that well out of the SM boom" a couple of years back when a lot of people were still trying to ride the crypto wave.

    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...=1#post5726912

    I also remember it doing rather well.

    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...=1#post5997044

    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    If it pays off, I may try again with another index. If it tanks then that is the end of that fun.
    Good luck. If you can manage to repeat your previous performance you might even end up getting employment offers from Luxembourg:-)

  15. #8565
    Who bought bank stocks ?

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  16. #8566
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    I'm not changing my policy of just buying global index trackers with low fees as the last 24 months has taught me I know fark all about investing but would it be right to assume that some folks will be buying hold etc right about now as a bit of a safeguard?

  17. #8567
    I suspect last week will have seen big wins and big losses

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  18. #8568

    When stocks rebound, WHERE best to invest?

    Where is Raffe?

    The largest crisis in Swiss banking history and I thought he would have a few comments.

    Maybe he has been drafted from Lux to lead the 24 hour due diligence. Or maybe he is 24/7 firefighting his home country banks.

  19. #8569
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    I'm not changing my policy of just buying global index trackers with low fees as the last 24 months has taught me I know fark all about investing but would it be right to assume that some folks will be buying hold etc right about now as a bit of a safeguard?
    I always stick with trackers. I can't be arsed to look but I have read on numerous occasions that trackers always out perform 75% of managed stocks.

    I have been buying UK trackers since the early eighties, gone through a few crashes and I am showing a very healthy profit with very low management fees.

  20. #8570
    Hi guys.

    A quick question for the people in the know regarding share dividends please. I have tried a Google search but I am getting confusing info for what I imagine is quite a common thing, however I am by no means that knowledgable on investing.

    So, if a companies ex dividend date is the 23rd and I buy there shares today and then I sell them again on the 24th would I be entitled to the dividend payout on the payout date in May? Or do I need to own the shares before the ex dividend date and then keep them until the dividend payout date?

    Many thanks.


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  21. #8571
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    Dow up 350 so far...

  22. #8572
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    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    Where is Raffe?

    The largest crisis in Swiss banking history and I thought he would have a few comments.

    Maybe he has been drafted from Lux to lead the 24 hour due diligence. Or maybe he is 24/7 firefighting his home country banks.
    Just a wonderful weekend with my daughter, watching the Swiss drama from afar.

    Low profile in trading at the mom, just too busy in the real world.


    If you are interested in a great view about the UBS/CS transaction, just read Matt L - I have got nothing to add.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...almost-nothing
    Last edited by Raffe; 20th March 2023 at 22:06.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  23. #8573
    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    Stuck a few K in Wetherspoons given the share price is historically very low at the moment, and hoping the World Cup, Xmas and general cost of living crisis (with folk down-pubbing) is favourable for trade.

    Popped in my local one for a swifty this afternoon at 3.30pm and the place was mobbed.
    Sometimes the most simplest of research pays off.

    Wetherspoons are up 40% since before Xmas and I have continued to drip feed another few K on the way up. Wetherspoons share price is still 50% below its high, so will continue to drip feed.

    Not selling this one and making the mistake I made with Easyjet and Rolls Royce, where I sold far to early. The population is skint and likes a pint or three.

    This single stock is keeping my modest portfoliio fairly flat.

    Sent from my SM-X200 using Tapatalk

  24. #8574
    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    I will probably massively regret this, but as an experiment I just bought 24 of the most beaten up stocks in the FTSE 250, without any diligence or research (half of them I have never even heard of) and put 300 in each of them.

    If it pays off, I may try again with another index. If it tanks then that is the end of that fun.
    One month into my bit of fun/experiment and I am up 1.5% across my 24 FTSE 250 dog stocks. FTSE 250 is up 1% in the same time frame, so I'm star fund manager for the month, lol. Not for the feint hearted. Some of these stocks bounce around 10% per day.



  25. #8575
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    T E
    ......S
    ....... L
    ........A


    Cash disappearing faster than when Liz was running the UK.


    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  26. #8576
    Master pacifichrono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    T E
    ......S
    ....... L
    ........A


    Cash disappearing faster than when Liz was running the UK.


    In other words, down 5.4% from its earlier high.

  27. #8577
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    According to Bloomberg's "Evening Briefing,"

    Just six months ago, investors were plowing billions of dollars into (U.S.) I bonds. Now, some experts say its time to get out. The yield on series I savings bonds is expected to fall to around 3.8% in May, down from the current 6.89% and a historic 9.62% rate last year. The bonds yield is tied to inflation, which is showing signs of cooling. These days, investing options including high-yield savings accounts, money market funds and certificates of deposits are offering competitive rates, making I bonds look less attractive in comparison.

  28. #8578
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacifichrono View Post
    In other words, down 5.4% from its earlier high.
    In other words, printing negative quarterly cash flow when adjusted for government grants, missing consensus expectations by almost $3bln.

    Margins are in free fall, they now have more than 75% of their monthly revenue worth of cars as unsold inventory.

    And given additional price cuts as late as this week, it's only getting worse next quarter, much much worse. As late as a couple of weeks ago, investors were touting a stock buyback programme. Reality is that Tesla might need a capital increase.

    Stock closed down 8% in after hours trading, just wait what will happen tomorrow.

    But Cathie will release Ark's new stock price target for Tesla tomorrow, expect $69,420. Muh.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  29. #8579
    Master pacifichrono's Avatar
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    You're probably right. I just have a problem with graph constructs that greatly amplify what really happened.

  30. #8580
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacifichrono View Post
    You're probably right. I just have a problem with graph constructs that greatly amplify what really happened.
    An 8% drop in after hours is not significant? There is more to come ($168 now).
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  31. #8581
    Master pacifichrono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    An 8% drop in after hours is not significant? There is more to come ($168 now).
    But the graph makes it look like 80%.

  32. #8582
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacifichrono View Post
    But the graph makes it look like 80%.
    That's because it focuses on roughly the minimum and maximum in the last few hours before the close to show what happened. You would not notice it on a complete scale, and that could cost you (a lot of) money if you're just a small investor without expert alert.
    As I know you invest, you are familiar with the above and probably choose to have the scales of the graphs you look at set to your preference.
    My very limited understanding is that the reason to highlight this is that it happened after hours.
    Raffe offers the benefit of his hindsight with the (probable) story behind the fall, and what he expects the stock to do. Against him is that he really doesn't like Musk, in favour of him is that he has very good reasons not to like him, including professional ones (using Twitter in the past to manipulate Tesla stock value, for one).
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  33. #8583
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    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    One month into my bit of fun/experiment and I am up 1.5% across my 24 FTSE 250 dog stocks. FTSE 250 is up 1% in the same time frame, so I'm star fund manager for the month, lol. Not for the feint hearted. Some of these stocks bounce around 10% per day.


    I doubt your Sharpe ratio looks great...

  34. #8584
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacifichrono View Post
    But the graph makes it look like 80%.
    If you want a zoomed-out perspective:

    After printing the January low of $101.20, Tesla stock rallied all the way to $217.82 on 16 February.

    As of now, it has retraced 44% of that upmove.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  35. #8585
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    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    One month into my bit of fun/experiment and I am up 1.5% across my 24 FTSE 250 dog stocks. FTSE 250 is up 1% in the same time frame, so I'm star fund manager for the month, lol. Not for the feint hearted. Some of these stocks bounce around 10% per day.


    What app/platform is that? I assume its commission free trades give the low value holdings?

  36. #8586
    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    If you want a zoomed-out perspective:

    After printing the January low of $101.20, Tesla stock rallied all the way to $217.82 on 16 February.

    As of now, it has retraced 44% of that upmove.
    What's the main driver for the falls?

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  37. #8587
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daveya. View Post
    What's the main driver for the falls?

    Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
    They have a demand problem, which they have been responding to with massive price cuts, but sales are still collapsing. Now they have a huge inventory of unsold cars and margins are gone because they destroyed prices. Obviously many unhappy clients who bought their cars for full price last year, and now new cars are being offered for up to 25% less -> used Tesla prices in the bin.

    The underlying problem is the aging model lineup, the model S is 10 years old with only cosmetic updates since. They are competing across the range with the likes of VW/Nissan for the 3s and with BMW and M-B for the S and X models and those are bringing new models every three to four years. Teslas are visibly and technically outdated versus the competition, plus they have their well-known quality problems. There will be no easy or quick fix for this, they have underinvested into R&D for years and have no new models except for the electrical iron aka the Cybertruck, which has a lot of manufacturing problems due to the stainless steel body and is already more than two years behind release schedule.

    And then there is the issue of FSD, which will never work with the current hardware stack, which risks massive legal problems from the hundreds of thousands customers who paid between $6k and $15k for a software that simply doesn't work.f they ever need to repay these orders, they will go belly-up.

    There is a lot of downside risk for the stock, not before $20 will it be half-reasonably valued compared with their peers (which are growing faster and are more profitable).
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  38. #8588
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    Raffe, you have not been paying attention. Elon says ….

    “We’re making a car that, if autonomy pans out, and we think it will, where that asset is actually will be worth a hell a lot more in the future than it is now,” said the CEO. “It is technically possible to sell it at zero profit, but still have the net present value of future cash flows associated with that asset [be] very significant.” The profits come later by selling self-driving software.

  39. #8589
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Raffe, you have not been paying attention. Elon says .

    Were making a car that, if autonomy pans out, and we think it will, where that asset is actually will be worth a hell a lot more in the future than it is now, said the CEO. It is technically possible to sell it at zero profit, but still have the net present value of future cash flows associated with that asset [be] very significant. The profits come later by selling self-driving software.
    #magicbeans

  40. #8590
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Raffe, you have not been paying attention. Elon says ….

    “We’re making a car that, if autonomy pans out, and we think it will, where that asset is actually will be worth a hell a lot more in the future than it is now,” said the CEO. “It is technically possible to sell it at zero profit, but still have the net present value of future cash flows associated with that asset [be] very significant.” The profits come later by selling self-driving software.
    That makes a lot of sense, akshually.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  41. #8591
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    (...)

    But Cathie will release Ark's new stock price target for Tesla tomorrow, expect $69,420. Muh.
    What a disappointment, only $2,000 per share, because Robotaxi. Apparently Robotaxis will start producing revenue already this year (because Elno said that level 4 autonomy was ready this year during the earnings call), and Tesla Robotaxis alone will produce up to $600 billion Dollars of revenue in 2027 (which is a quarter of the UK's total GDP). They will also build between 10 and 20 million cars in 2027, for which they have neither the required plants not the consumer demand as they are not planning to release any new models besides the Cybertruck. Oh yes, and they will have a gross margin of >50%. And let's not forget they value the Bitcoin on Tesla's balance sheet according to their model which forecasts a price of $1 mio per Bitcoin in 2030.

    https://ark-invest.com/articles/valu...e-target-2027/
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  42. #8592
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    What a disappointment, only $2,000 per share, because Robotaxi. Apparently Robotaxis will start producing revenue already this year (because Elno said that level 4 autonomy was ready this year during the earnings call), and Tesla Robotaxis alone will produce up to $600 billion Dollars of revenue in 2027 (which is a quarter of the UK's total GDP). They will also build between 10 and 20 million cars in 2027, for which they have neither the required plants not the consumer demand as they are not planning to release any new models besides the Cybertruck. Oh yes, and they will have a gross margin of >50%. And let's not forget they value the Bitcoin on Tesla's balance sheet according to their model which forecasts a price of $1 mio per Bitcoin in 2030.

    https://ark-invest.com/articles/valu...e-target-2027/
    Visionary ...

  43. #8593
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    Not sure if this is any use to anybody...

    I have been drip feeding cash back into index fund over the last year within my Vanguard SIPP and am about 55% back in.

    I was receiving a very nice 3.4%ish (pa after fees) monthly interest on my cash balance, slowly increasing over the months in line with BOE base rate.

    However, word got out and Vanguard in March changed their terms limiting this rate to a maximum 2.2% pa on cash balances effectively pocketing the difference.

    When I contacted them they stated they are an investment platform and are encouraging customers to invest in funds rather than go the other way and convert to cash.

    Anyway, they suggested I look into their money market fund which I i did and last month paid me around 4% pa paid as a dividend monthly.

  44. #8594
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    What app/platform is that? I assume its commission free trades give the low value holdings?
    Yes, I am using Freetrade.

  45. #8595
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T1ckT0ck View Post
    Not sure if this is any use to anybody...

    I have been drip feeding cash back into index fund over the last year within my Vanguard SIPP and am about 55% back in.

    I was receiving a very nice 3.4%ish (pa after fees) monthly interest on my cash balance, slowly increasing over the months in line with BOE base rate.

    However, word got out and Vanguard in March changed their terms limiting this rate to a maximum 2.2% pa on cash balances effectively pocketing the difference.

    When I contacted them they stated they are an investment platform and are encouraging customers to invest in funds rather than go the other way and convert to cash.

    Anyway, they suggested I look into their money market fund which I i did and last month paid me around 4% pa paid as a dividend monthly.
    Money market funds are also safer than a cash deposit, so that is a good idea in any case.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  46. #8596

    When stocks rebound, WHERE best to invest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Money market funds are also safer than a cash deposit, so that is a good idea in any case.
    In the U.K. cash in the bank (or cash in any organisation that is FSCS protected) is the safest thing you can hold, as the U.K. Government guarantees your deposit up to 85k per bank/organisation.

    Money market funds technically have a risk of a default, however small, and even if it is on a small percentage of the investment.

    Cash is the safest and carries zero risk up to 85k per bank/organisation FSCS protected, but money market funds are very low risk.

    The small difference in risk is my understanding of why money market funds outperform cash in the bank. There is no free lunch.

    Cash deposits in Vanguard are FSCS protected. Money market funds are not.
    Last edited by noTAGlove; 23rd April 2023 at 11:15.

  47. #8597
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    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    In the U.K. cash in the bank (or cash in any organisation that is FSCS protected) is the safest thing you can hold, as the U.K. Government guarantees your deposit up to 85k per bank/organisation.

    Money market funds technically have a risk of a default, however small, and even if it is on a small percentage of the investment.

    Cash is the safest and carries zero risk up to 85k per bank/organisation FSCS protected, but money market funds are very low risk.

    The small difference in risk is my understanding of why money market funds outperform cash in the bank. There is no free lunch.
    You are mistaken, money market funds cannot default.

    Yes, there are government protections, but they are a) limited in size and b) dependent on never being tested.

    There is a reason why institutional investors with any risk management to speak of will always use money market funds.

    The reasons why money market funds are outperforming is that plenty people are below the government guarantee threshold and don't know how to optimise their return with money market funds.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  48. #8598

    When stocks rebound, WHERE best to invest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    You are mistaken, money market funds cannot default.

    Yes, there are government protections, but they are a) limited in size and b) dependent on never being tested.

    There is a reason why institutional investors with any risk management to speak of will always use money market funds.

    The reasons why money market funds are outperforming is that plenty people are below the government guarantee threshold and don't know how to optimise their return with money market funds.
    Whatever the vagaries, money market funds are not as safe as FSCS protected cash.

    With cash your investment is guaranteed not to go down (inflation aside). That is not the same for money market funds.

    https://www.fidelity.co.uk/markets-i...in-the-storm/#

  49. #8599
    This is like arguing i prefer 98% safe over 97.9% safe and if you genuinely think you'll ever need the bank protection fund you might be better in investing in property

    Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

  50. #8600
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    Whatever the vagaries, money market funds are not as safe as FSCS protected cash.

    With cash your investment is guaranteed not to go down (inflation aside). That is not the same for money market funds.

    https://www.fidelity.co.uk/markets-i...in-the-storm/#
    The point is that FSCS only protects the first 85k of your cash, and beware if that is ever tested with more than three trillion pounds of retail deposits in UK banks.

    I take money market funds every day of the year over cash in the bank.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

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