Reply With QuoteTesla owners have feelings, too!Originally Posted by noTAGlove
But then, their superior range does not hold up to testing - it only exists on paper.
Or it might be that the Tesla model 3 comes out as 50% more net cost than the Volvo C40 or ID4, and there is more demand for the latter?
Ok the Tesla has better range, but it is pig ugly and apparently falls apart.
Tesla owners have feelings, too!
But then, their superior range does not hold up to testing - it only exists on paper.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Range matters, as does charging infrastructure. I have a Model 3 and I've been pretty harsh in my criticism but I'm pretty sure the fall apart but ended when they moved to made in China (and now also Belgium).
The earlier models yeah, awful build quality, the new ones (compared to rivals) aren't exactly German and are lacking but fall apart isn't accurate.
Money matters too.
Just had a salary sacrifice quote for Volvo C40. All in including BIK, 10k miles pa, 3 years it came to £348 pcm. That is for a 47k P11D. Similar price for ID3 and ID4, and £50 pcm cheaper for a MG 4 Trophy.
Tesla 3 LR is £640 pcm on exact same terms, nearly double that of the Volvo and VWs
Ok it’s P11D is more expensive at £57k, but I usually find the residuals play a huge part of the monthly cost. And to get a monthly cost so high the Tesla residuals must be sh1te.
Anyway, probably better to post on the EV thread, but Tesla is pricing itself well out of the game. Especially as 90%+ of journeys are local.
LR isn't a fair comparison (unless the range is the same?) but I get your point and agree the difference is way too big. GFVM aka residuals play a big part so either the future book value is going to be awful or people are being milked to join the cult. I'd guess the latter.
On that I'd get the Volvo. No brainer if you're going to lease and want an EV. I use the motorway a lot and value superchargers so I'm sticking with the Model 3 but I'm not paying a monthly and got in before the price rises.
Stuck a few K in Wetherspoons given the share price is historically very low at the moment, and hoping the World Cup, Xmas and general cost of living crisis (with folk down-pubbing) is favourable for trade.
Popped in my local one for a swifty this afternoon at 3.30pm and the place was mobbed.
Regret taking modest profits on my Easyjet and Rolls Royce shares I bought and sold within a month.
I only sold as I was trying to be a bit cute and buy them back at a cheaper price. After I sold the share price took off some more.
Best leave the trading to Raffe.
https://www.ii.co.uk/analysis-commen...hares-ii526146
I'm like you - never 100% sure. Guess best to drip feed money in so you average it out..?
I have drip fed into the FTSE 250 since that post, but wish I would have gone in harder as the index is up 15% since that posting that comment only 7 weeks ago.
Hindsight, hey.
My few quid gamble on a block chain ETF is not faring so well.
Second day in a row that I am sitting with a massive long SP500 position down very bad. Yesterday I sat it out until it bounced overnight to 4,012 and managed to close it out at a small loss only, but not looking that good today.
Bit surprised by the sudden attitude swing, not sure what to make of it. I still think we'll move higher into year end, but....
Last edited by Raffe; 6th December 2022 at 20:49.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Is it all a Santa Rally and we await 2023?
Ha! When Ronaldo came on, the SP500 rallied. Unbelievable. I am in profit for the day. Wow. Lolz.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Taxi for the DOW
Sent from my XQ-CQ54 using Tapatalk
Ahem....
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
What funds are people holding?
Tesla is in meltdown. Down 10% today and now down 60% in a smidge over 3 months.
You read that right, 60% fall in value in 100 days.
I refer the honourable gentlemen to these posts from earlier:
I give you the two poster children of Covid-related stock market absurdity.
Microstrategy has just reversed the complete run up since December 2019, Tesla still has a lot of downside left. Obviously they are not the same, not even directly comparable except for the hoards of fanbois that have been chasing the stock price in a fact-free bubble absent of any common sense. Hundreds of thousands of investors gamblers will lose everything and will remain indebted for the rests of their lives. And the companies boards of directors have stood in silence watching the cocaine-induced shenanigans of the two celebrity CEOs, while cashing out every single share they have received for their custodial service to shareholders.
When prison?
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
It's not even complicated , there is so much more choice in the EV market, so many good cars and is growing by the day
Sent from my XQ-CQ54 using Tapatalk
Tesla hasn't launched a new model in years, and has no R&D in place to replace any of their existing models in the next years. Meanwhile, the rest of the market has churned out better and sexier cars in spades. Tesla has been discounting cars to the max around the world in Q4, still they can't sell any: order backlogs have gone to zero in all of their markets, factories are operating far under their capacity because there is not enough demand. There was a time when fanbois were telling us they had unlimited demand and the only constraint on their revenue was the ability to build new factories.
Add to that the total unmasking of their fraudster CEO and you are getting to where we are today: $125.00
If you also add the need to call back FSD, reimburse clients and restate the related revenue, we will be approaching $69.42 share price during the first half of 2023.
“How did you go bankrupt?" - "Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.” (Ernest Hemingway, The Sun Also Rises).
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
P.S.: I am long Tesla, bought at $125.44 today.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
You really could not make this up: Elno now on a Twitter Spaces call and talking about Tesla stock. How is this even legal, giving out privileged information unscheduled through a private meeting with fanbois?
Listen to it for yourself here.
Amongst others, he has said:
- He won't sell more stock for at least 18 months (how often has he promised that already and broken it?)
- "I stand by my prediction that Tesla will be the most valuable company in the world"
- He is expecting a recession next year
- He doesn't rule out a stock buyback, if there only wasn't a recession, so maybe he does rule it out? Not very clear.
Tesla stock trading at $129.60 by now. Not that I don't appreciate it because I bought today, but it's a scandal that he issues those kind of statements without a securities lawyer in the call.
By now, they have moved forward and are talking about the possibility of linking Twitter profile pictures with Tesla profiles (Elno said he is going to look into it) and talking about Floki Inu.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Yup but still in the mass-market (ish) segment of the medium family luxury car the Model 3 still outranks the competition after all these years and they will bring a revised model out possibly next year. Add the charging infrastructure and it still makes sense to get one, that being said I see they are offering 6000 free supercharger miles with new model 3s so clearly things are getting tighter.
Tesla was never worth the valuation it had previously and won't return there any time soon, but as an EV manufacturer it still has a sizeable advantage vs the competition in so far as it A still makes the best car and B still has the best infrastructure.
Once that changes of course then it's a whole new ball game.
We know you drank the Kool-Aid, no need to prove it.
Tesla has always been good at milking government subsidies, combined subsidies still outpace profits over the company history (the company would have made a cumulative loss and gone bankrupt if it hadn't been for government subsidies):
Sales in Q4 have been propped by margin-destroying incentives across the globe, Tesla are givin cash rebates in Europe, the UK, the US and China. They will come out OK in Q4, but will lose money on every single car they are selling. Backlogs are zero, Tesla stores have huge inventory and they are trying to unload them onto the market as Lord Elno is afraid of the recession. In Q1/2023 they will have their worst quarter on quarter sales decline in history and shares will break below $100.
The Model 3 update is only scheduled for 2024 and is only minor optical changes. by then. the car will be completely irrelevant and Tesla will trade below $42.69.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Their advantage , so to speak ( ignoring subsidiaries at the moment ) in the UK at least is diminishing by the day. A mate had only Tesla's on his company car list 2 years ago ( wonder how much it costs Tesla to dominate company car lists?) Just had his renewal through, 6 EVs on there now.
Sent from my XQ-CQ54 using Tapatalk
I must have had the choice of 20-30 EVs when I ordered my EV last month.
Nothing against Tesla, and I’d have happily leased one, except the lease cost was so much more expensive than the competition.
For example VW ID3 was 40% cheaper and MG4 was less than half the cost.
I am sure Tesla is better, but not that much better to justify the massive cost difference. After all 90% of journeys are less than 30 miles.
It appears Tesla is losing its technology moat, and I would not invest long term.
Exactly, as Raffe says they are no longer cutting edge
Sent from my XQ-CQ54 using Tapatalk
Yep there are more options now, my point is in the main segment Tesla operates in (mid sized luxury sedan) which is where most EVs are sold, they still dominate with a superior product. The model 3 is an old model but still after these years is better than newer entrants such as BMW i4, Ioniq5 etc. There hasn't been a killer car from a rival make yet. Once that does happen yes Tesla will be in all sorts of trouble - I'd buy an Audi EV all day of the week once they combine the internal fit and finish with a compelling drive and great infrastructure but as yet nobody has bested Tesla on the 2nd point (compelling drive/infrastructure) even though BMW have beaten tesla on the fit and finish part in that segment
I think you are overthinking it. The vast majority of journeys are just the commute to and from work. Almost any EV will do the job and a whole lot more.
Unless you are a sales rep or undertaking 200+ mile journeys on a weekly basis you don’t need a 350 mile range.
Yes, a 350 mile range is convenient when you need it, but so is saving £300 pcm on the lease and suffering a bit of mild inconvenience of an additional recharging stop once in a while.
Exactly, this nonsense of all those unused batteries being driven around or parked for no other reason thatn to manage the need to do a once-in-a-while trip of a few hundred miles is mind staggering. The precious resources wasted, the weight carried around, the fire hazard risks, etc... In my view, small-battery powered cars or hybrids serve the need of people much better, keeping the inner cities free from pollution while reducing unnecessary battery manufacturing. Hop on the train for longer trips, use public transport or hire a small-battery car o the other side. We need less cars on the roads, and that includes less electrical cars as well because they are not the answer to congestion and resource wasting.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Yep, it's why Toyota still insist on focusing on hybrids, it's all we need. Ours is great, 55 mpg and fast enough
Sent from my XQ-CQ54 using Tapatalk
Tesla tanking today, is this the beginning of the end?
Probably the end of the beginning
At this speed, below $100 by tomorrow. Who would have thunk?
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
I think that must depend on your definition of 'better'. 10.7% defect rate, 3rd from bottom on J.D Power, having to pay a subscription for connectivity and it doesn't even give you Apple CarPlay or Android Auto, etc. And we've just heard from an owner here about having to wait for hours to be recovered. No wonder they are tanking, people are waking up to the hype.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critic...on_2022_Report
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
Given almost all tech stocks have followed the same share price pattern, I am not.
Apple is one of the last tech stock standing with a sub 30% fall. Is that next?
Time to close the bets.
1. Sean89 wins, Raffe donates £50 to fundraiser
2. Raffe wins, Sean89 to donate £50 to fundraiser
6. Raffe wins, Daveya to donate £50 to fundraiser.
Bets 3, 4, 5 and 7 have already been settled on 30 June 2022 (all won by me).
That's another £350 to the forum fundraiser by the community, thanks to everyone who participated.
Unfortunately, this tradition will come to an end today, I will not continue to organise the betting quite simply because I can live without the grief of being called a charity dodger. The final straw on that was a particularly unpleasant incident earlier today, I am so done with these types you won't believe it.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
That's a shame, there will be tw4ts everywhere I suppose , hope you reconsider, you seem pretty good at this investing lark and can fleece us for charity at will
Anyway I've paid in
Sent from my XQ-CQ54 using Tapatalk
Just when I was about to………….LOL
“Don’t look back, you’re not heading that way.”
I'll make an exception for you.
£50 AMC charity bet, what's your level for 30/06?
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Argo over £1 at least once before the end of this year.
£50.
The whole company worth more than £1 or just one share?
Sent from my XQ-CQ54 using Tapatalk
Be rude not to stay at $50 or above 👍
“Don’t look back, you’re not heading that way.”
If you say so, bet accepted.
Chinnock: AMC price > $50 on 30/06/2023, Chinnock over, Raffe under. £50.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
I'll take this bet if you want?
Sent from my XQ-CQ54 using Tapatalk
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Tesla down another 12%
Sent from my XQ-CQ54 using Tapatalk
Argo up +50% today. No news.
Only need another 600% to break even.
How many did you buy today?Argo up +50% today. No news.
Only need another 600% to break even.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
It only seems like yesterday.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Posting Permissions
