Reply With QuoteMarket looking wobbly, I have no doubt we will see a 100+ points range in the S&P again, just no idea which direction, if any.
I am on the sidelines for the moment.
Nope. more buyers than sellers, t'was the bounce I talked about this morning.Originally Posted by Daveya.
Bought twice S&P500 futures, got twice stopped out (once at the low of the day). Then the S&P reversed a 4% intraday loss to close in the green.
Not my best day, big loss.
Having said that, this isn't necessarily a medium-term bottom. Volatile sell-offs often contain violent counter-rally days. If you look at the data of the 1987, 2008/29 or 2020 sell-offs you can see many of these. Stay vigilant, don't think this is over already.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Market looking wobbly, I have no doubt we will see a 100+ points range in the S&P again, just no idea which direction, if any.
I am on the sidelines for the moment.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
I see old forum darling NCYT got smashed up today and almost 90% down in a year now.
NCYT wasn’t as bad as some of the diagnostic COVID pumps (Avacta, ODX etc) as they at least had some revenue. But I’ll always remember a couple of posters here boasting about their paper gains and how it was about to “really take off”.
I bet you anything they’re still sat on those shares waiting for the moon.
Dow losing almost 1% a day for 5 days trotters , bring back Trump
130 points so far.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
... and 60 down again.
This doesn't look very healthy. All that buying and the floor is just melting away.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Your Tesla bashing is becoming tedious. What exactly is wrong with anything in that video? It's an original factory that's grown and been added to over many years. You need to look at what the majority of other car factories look like before bashing this one. Vauxhall in Luton, England.....Ford's old plant in Dagenham, London... both are/were way more of a mess than this place!
You joke, right?
To be fair, those examples aren’t presented as the cutting edge of motoring, or the highest value motor companies in the world anymore…
It's just a matter of time...
What's wrong with that video?
Look at the production plant of Volkswagen in Wolfsburg. That is a factory that is 70 years old that has grown and been added to over years. Tesla bought the factory in 2010 and has added nothing but tents to it since.
Do you see a single tent on the Volkswagen terrain? Do you see half-finished autos being towed through the weather from one tent to another?
You can look at any auto plant in the world. None will have the amount of garbage and trash lying around as Tesla. Why? Because it is about safety, access by the fire brigade etc. Tesla has a dismal safety record with more work accidents than any other major manufacturer, in any other country outside of the US the unions would have shut it down years ago.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
What utter nonsense!
The majority of other car factories? - your choice of comparison is poor, one has gone the other is decaying due to poor sales.
Musk is cashing in, the cars are a zero-sum game long before they are not serviceable.
On a lease? - no worries..........
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Third day in a row with a S&P500 range of over 100 points, 152 points today.
Amazing.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Watching Tesla slide
Still short from $1088. Was $860 yesterday, $987 today, then $880 again. Wild.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
The 100 S&P points are already in the bag for today. Amazing.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
You're quite right. My choice of comparison was poor, but so was comparing the original, tired out, Tesla factory.
Should compare one of the new (or nearly finished) GigaFactories in Texas, Shanghai or Berlin to get a more accurate idea of their future direction.
Maybe they intend to close/rebuild Freemont once all the new ones are finished.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk4aeina6kA
The Volkswagen factory is much much older than the Tesla, so why would one compare it versus a brand-new Tesla factory? It's a question of maintenance and safety.
When is it again that the German factory will open? July 2021 as far as I remember. But Berlin has form with short delays, the airport was only delayed by nine years, so there is hope.
And who will buy the cars that they are building there because currently even the existing production facilities are running below capacity.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
As a new Tesla owner I'd say the move to a Tesla is genuinely life changing. So that impact will be felt by others as they too make the changes.
I used to look at some of the Porsche threads on here thinking wow what lovely cars. Now I look at them and think 'what the hell are you guys doing buying outdated polluting tripe'. I suspect many others would think similar hence the demand for Teslas will continue.
But it's not Tesla versus polluting cars. Leaving the questions of Tesla's own pollution aside, they don't even have a 15% global market share in electrical vehicles. Six out of seven electrical cars bought today are not Teslas. This is not Tesla versus ICE, but electric versus ICE.
If you look at electric cars from Volkswagen, Mercedes or Porsche, these are much nicer (subjective), but also much more recently designed. No other global manufacturer is selling such outdated cars as Tesla. Tesla is again not planning any new models in 2022. And one of the main reasons why Tesla is so rapidly losing market share is their abysmal build quality and their poor service.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
That's interesting Ryan, that it's a life changer I mean, could you elaborate, seems to me though I've never ridden/ driven one it's a car albeit electric so chiefly it'll be a conveyance from A to B much like any other maybe a few extra toys and gadgets to amuse the folks who like that stuff...quieter I would imagine, like a milk float... but still doing basically the same job as any other car...interested why you think life changer...now if it were a flying car, then I could get excited, that would be a genuine life changer.
Last edited by Passenger; 27th January 2022 at 11:53.
I'd say with tesla it is the sum of the parts that makes it so compelling. The interface. The intelligent voice control. The sport handling. The supercharger network. The sheer ease of using it. The spaciousness inside despite a relatively small footprint. The cost savings
I agree build quality won't be at Range Rover Level based on very recent experience and the cabin is below Mercedes Level too but for sure the car is not inferior to a BMW 3 series from a build perspective.
Well 'Life Changer' was probably Hyperbole but as per my response to Raffe above I outlined some key points that make the car for me anyway a lovely thing indeed.
That's all marketing guff except for the charging network. In my view, that is the only real asset that Tesla holds in this game. Everything else is just hyped bs.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
My car is dead easy to use, get in, turn it on with key, drive off, such ease of use it's quite a brilliant and in 4 some years of ownership a completely reliable thing, never once required an 'update' before it'll move thus inconvenienced me. Even on cold days I still get 45 to 50 mpg, never have to check my 'range' might be impacted cos of the weather, such a dependable feature!
With the UK being so comprehensively speed camera'd I struggle to understand how anyone with any powerful car not just lectric, ICE too, can really be making use of their capabilities/ sports functions etc, without the constant worry/ chance of a ticket, fine, pulled by the plod. Not arguing these things aren't a nice to have theoretically but in the real world, mostly not much practical use. Mind you it'd be boring if we all liked the same stuff.
I'm happy for you, that you enjoy it so much.
Last edited by Passenger; 27th January 2022 at 12:15.
But who made the 630 kg lithium battery ?
....dwarves from another planet...and not a gram of air or water was polluted in the process...
Well all I'll say is that if someone consciously makes the decision to buy a new BMW M3 instead of a Tesla Model 3 Performance then there is something wrong unless they work for BMW or the Oil Industry
And what I am saying is that if someone consciously makes the decision to buy a new Tesla Model 3 instead of a BMW i4 then there is something wrong and they have been genuinely brainwashed by the Tesla hype.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Lol at something wrong
I would buy an M3 over a Tesla all day long
If it is in the UK they may be planning to do longer journeys in which case they will have bought the Tesla for the Supercharger network. The network for non-Tesla EVs in the UK is appalling in comparison. I know this is not the case in some other European countries though where the EV infrastructure is more developed so it depends. That being said the only comparative test I've seen favours the Model 3 slightly, but it is close;
https://www.guideautoweb.com/en/arti...3-the-numbers/
No problem at all. Although it wouldn't be a choice made for performance reasons so I guess some people really like Vroom Vroom sounds. And that's fine, your money your choice
https://www.carscoops.com/2021/11/bm...3-performance/
The Model 3 looks like a Prius and its interior design including the oversized iPad looks cheap. Just have a look at the BMW interior (or Mercedes, Porsche). Give it another year, and Tesla will be marginalised.
I agree about the charger network, basically anyone I know who has bought a Tesla is saying that was the deciding factor. Another year and that advantage is gone as well. Nothing left then.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
If all you want is straight line speed to brag about then you'd buy a Tesla , no argument from me
I won't bother linking all the reviews comparing driving pleasure M3 to Tesla, you will be aware anyway,
I agree the Tesla is minimalist and I moved to it from a Range Rover Velar. When I tested the various EVs the Merc EQA had the best interior by a mile. Better than the Jag Ipace. I didn't test the i4 although I had an i3 for a weekend and that was a cracking little car with a lovely cabin. The Tesla isn't that bad though and I like the simplicity. It does take a while to get used to though.
Where I notice finishing differences on the Tesla is in the visible joists, also mud seems to splash inside the passenger doors (not into the cabin but certainly under the door itself), the headlining isn't up there with the best. Typical Premium American car (although built in China). But driving it is pretty darned cool.
...and up 150 points again from the lows.
Bouncing around like in a good old mechanical pinball.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
we bought an i3 in November to use for all our locally journeys - really pleased with the car and my wife just loves it - so easy to use.
Incidentally I sold my F82 M4 at that time - I do miss it but there again I don't as I hardly ever used it as I am well into retirement.
Pity that BMW are discontinuing the i3 and not really replacing it with anything similar - I'd also say that if you use your EV for just local journeys all you need is a smaller battery that will do say a safe 100 miles - (we have the latest i3 with the 42kwh battery and it seems to be good for at least 150 miles in winter ..... so maybe 180+ in summer....... for our use I reckon a Plug in Hybrid would fit the bill and I'd just charge it every night.
Not sure I would ever stump up for an i4 or similar just far too expensive.
Tesla down 7%, one of the tents must have blown over
I bought a BMW iX3 last year, basically the X3 with a battery, 285 miles of range and literally specd to the point there is nothing left to add on, as the launch model. I love it, it does the school commute with no fuel costs, free charging network in Scotland and an Ionity charger nearby delivering 150kwh.
This car is superior in every way to a Tesla, it’s a BMW with a battery!
I also purchased a Porsche 911, it’s fuel economy is terrible, it’s hard on the bumps and costs a fortune, but I bought it for the driving experience of a combustion, rear mounted engine…it puts a smile on my face, that’s why I bought it
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...and down 100 points again, just for the fun of it.
Most weeks don't move 100 points in normal markets. This week we are seeing multiple 100 point up and down moves every day.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Teslöa scoring a clean century today. Lots of downside left. We are officially switching from BTFD to STFR today.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
I'm genuinely glad you like the IX3 but that is not even close to being as accomplished a car as the Tesla Model Y it competes against. Absolutely miles apart. Pretty much every review will say that.
Now the 911 on the other hand , well that'll take some beating! :)
Tesla don’t do product development, they only do software patches, that Model Y to all intents and purposes is a Model 3
The build quality and reliability of BMW and their latest range of technology, you can only be buying a Tesla for the thrill of owning a Tesla, you would never buy it in its own merits…£55k for an base model Y, £2200 for paint choice or £60k for a fully loaded iX3 with bear identical range.
Tesla is trying to be to cars what apple was to mobile devices, problem being that in this example, the established car companies have pretty much caught them up within a decade and there’s nothing unique any more
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I think Tesla's are ok, like the fart noise for indicators , that's good, and the alarms and stuff, but at 55+ so much on offer now.
I think you need to drive one. Handling is superb. It isn't an Ipod on wheels they are genuinely accomplished cars. Ok so a base Model 3 isn't going to feel like a 911 of course but it will feel better to drive than an equivalent BMW 3 series.
You should talk to Greg Wester, who does some serious track racing with his Tesla S. He says the car is undrivable in its original configuration.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Or the many testers who say it can't compete with the M3 on the track, not even close
Yes that's a Model S. It is a barge.
You should compare Model 3 Performance with M3. Way better handling. The new S Plaid is lighting fast acceleration but borderline dangerous with brakes unfit for purpose and garbage handling. It is a dud. No Tesla will out handle a Porsche but specifically the BMW M3 is very much in the sights
When it's matched it I'd be interested, until then though....
Putting aside my deep antipathy for Musk and just trying to get a feel for the product in isolation...the more I hear from Ryan about the alleged pro's... the less and less I'm interested in one, so that's been useful, very helpful.
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