Reply With QuoteNo its not normal at all. It is disgustingly bad.
Put it this way I regulate £28 Russian hand winding watches to run a couple of seconds a day out or better.
Apologies all, and this may seem a stupid question, and maybe me overthinking.
I purchased Tudor BB58 last June, great watch and become pretty much my daily. It's my first COSC certified watch, now I wear this in rotation with my Panerai 560 (once or twice I a week).
From my understanding COSC is -4 +6. Usually I don't worry about specs having a Panerai with no running seconds it was never an issue and having a few quartz watches.
I usually set the BB58 once a week to the time here https://time.is/ and come the end of the week or 2 I check it again (as today its currently 30secs fast).
Is this normal, say a build up of +2 per day? or am I understanding that wrongly?
Thanks
No its not normal at all. It is disgustingly bad.
Put it this way I regulate £28 Russian hand winding watches to run a couple of seconds a day out or better.
Thank you, so should it just be the +2 roughly overall? Best to send to Tudor or the AD I bought it from and let them look?Originally Posted by xellos99
If you're asking is +2 seconds per day good for a reasonably new COSC certified watch I'd say yes.
No that was an example, all I know is the spec currently compared to when I last set it (think last week).
Maybe the query should be what should a BB58 running at?
I've just got an app for my phone which I'll use when at home which should give me some better answers
As you have stated COSC is -4/+6 s per day for a mechanical watch.
You seem to be saying your watch is +2 s each day so in 14 days it gains 28s?
Is it +2 in all of the positions used in the COSC test? (3 o’clock, 6 o’clock, 9 o’clock, dial on top, dial on the bottom) BTW COSC allows a max of 5s per day variation for a given position.
You might find that it stays more accurate by finding the position where it is slowest and resting it in that position on the non-wearing days?
In the old days Rolex made a leaflet to explain this to customers.
For info compare with COSC for HEQ which is 0.07s per day. A totally different ballpark.
Sounds to me to be running within spec.
+6s x 7 days = 42 seconds
Yours is plus 30 so you should be pleased.
sit back, relax and enjoy your 58.
Cheers,
Ben
..... for I have become the Jedi of flippers
" an extravagance is anything you buy that is of no earthly use to your wife "
Thanks that explains how its totaled over x amount of days.
Don't worry I am, just didn't want to have defunct one
I'm not certain on the 2secs per day, guess I need to set it then check it over 4 days or a week and see what the difference is. Issue I guess I wear then at night time have it dial up of a night.
If you want to slow it when not wearing it leave it crown up (on its side with the crown pointing up) as the effects of gravity will slow there balance wheel ever so slightly thus reducing the rate.
Cheers,
Ben
..... for I have become the Jedi of flippers
" an extravagance is anything you buy that is of no earthly use to your wife "
My Tudor Black Bay loses 4 seconds a day (More than 6 seconds a day if I don't leave it dial up at night) as pointed out in another thread being made to COSC standards does not mean your watch will run within COSC standards.
When I asked on the forum for advice I was told I was being entirely unreasonable expecting a COSC certified product to run within COSC parameters if actually worn or even to be able to match the accuracy of a cheap Seiko movement.
COSC is a lab test and it's generally run on the movement under a set of controlled conditions a single temperature is used for mechanical watches if memory serves. I also seem to remember that automatic movements have the rotor disconnected. This is a world away from the recased and re-enable automatic worn on the wrist every day.
The good point is that any COSC certified movement should be capable of being regulated by an experienced watchmaker to keep time fairly well provided it is in good condition. The issue here is in the phrase experienced watchmaker. This breed of person is becoming a rare thing in the modern world. One or two such people post here and it would be worth talking to them.
Should you really have to do that with a brand new watch? Perhaps a Vostok but a "luxury" brand like Tudor?
Good Lord, there are some very odd comments on this thread...
It is entirely reasonable to expect a COSC-certified watch to run within the -4/+6 seconds per day standard, in my opinion. I own a number of COSC-certified watches and they all do, in normal wearing conditions.
There should be no reason why a new or new-ish COSC-certified watch would need to be further regulated unless there's something wrong with it.
A watch that is averaging +2 seconds per day over a week is running comfortably within COSC, and you should be perfectly happy with it - the manufacturer certainly will be. It's not "disgustingly bad", it's doing exactly what it's supposed to!
Simon
Sounds like it’s fine. My 58 runs -1s per day.
I don’t find any relatively modern watches can be regulated by position.
You may be right but it's still how COSC test them. They do that for a reason.
Depends if you just want it to meet COSC or run as accurately as it can.
Look at the standard . It accepts that -6 seconds per day is fine.
Not going to comment on what constitutes a luxury brand.
Will say my Rolex, Omega and Smiths Everest all keep better than COSC and two of those three are not even certified.
Good point. COSC-certified watches certainly don’t hold a monopoly on good timekeeping. My Dreadnought is running at +1 second per day and that’s 17 years old!
Simon
You can’t get an accurate idea of how much it gains / loses per day by checking it after a week or 2. It isn’t a case of just dividing it up evenly over 14 days as it could fluctuate from s day to day. If it is indeed gaining + 2 per day consistently then it’s very good and well within spec.
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They can be by a watchmaker who knows what he is doing.
I’ve tested my watches and the only one that exhibits a rate change is my Smiths W10, which keeps great time but speeds up a bit when left crown down, or maybe slows I can’t remember.
All my others don’t change rate in any of the range of resting positions.
If you mean to say that positional variation is rather small: you're a lucky fellow.
Many watches develop positional errors over the years.
I've had a vintage recently that went from - 5 sec. dial up to +120 dial down. Needless to say there was a lot wrong there (basically I had a spare movement and the watchmaker serviced that and replaced it).
When you're talking about regulation: a decent watchmaker can take care of that. COSC is about making a watch with as little positional variation as possible.
Yes - spot on. COSC is not the be all and end all. It's simply a quality standard that says no more than "you can expect your watch to meet this standard". Any watch will drift off of the standard over time and as has been said a good watchmaker will be able to restore it to (better than) COSC when it is serviced.
Don't forget the current COSC standard for mechanical watches has been around since the early '70's it is identical (and is maintained to remain identical) to the ISO3159 standard and this was last reviewed in 2009 by ISO. The trouble is "COSC" sells watches and "ISO3159" does not.
The Japanese abandoned COSC years ago. One might feel they though it meaningless when considering precision mechanical horology? The Germans mostly use the "Glashütte Observatory" standard DIN 8319 which is to all intents and purposes the same as COSC. Then you need to remember the "Observatory Chronometer" standard maintaind by France. A database of watches that attained this standard is, AFAIK, available. I'm not sure it has any great meaning in the 21st Century but a watch certified as an Observatory Chronometer would be highly prized by a collector.
Actually, they did too well and won the chronometer competition (Seiko). Afaik COSC only certifies Swiss movements, so the Japanese are pushed out of it. I don't think they abandoned chronometer certification out of their free will.
A good point. I don't think the Swiss liked the happenings in 2006?
-4 (not 6)
It's just a matter of time...
Thank you. Old age is not improving my memory or reducing my finger trouble on the keyboard.
OP if you really want - you could invest in a timograph like the M2000(?) and get an accurate measure of the beat angle, rate etc for your watch in different positions - or you could ask your local AD that may have the facilities - RSC will have those facilities.
But an average of +2sec/d seems darn good for any watch. Wear and enjoy!
if you want to track the accuracy of your watch I can recommend WatchTracker app
Martyn.
Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 7th March 2020 at 17:00.
I usually try to regulate my watches to a slight plus, +2 or +3 sec /day.
Two reasons:
1) I'd rather be early instead of late.
2) Most disturbances slow a watch down instead of make it run faster.
Ok after a week off doing some small testing, advice received here.
Set via an atomic clock Monday morning, worn all day until night time, leave over night dial up, re-check in the morning against said clock, repeat for 7 days.
Below are my finding. Unsure whether this is good or not. Guess my +2secs was a wild inaccurate assumption (maybe I meant the reverse haha). Yes still within cosc from what I understand, but unsure if the timing's below are anything to worry about (in the current climate I know it's not) but you get my drift of the thread.
Have you tried different resting positions? Either way, it’s within spec.
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Try keeping it in your armpit at night while you sleep. Or between your battycheeks
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Well -2.4s per day is within COSC but I expect it could be regulated to do better. Ask Webwatchmaker what he thinks now you have some data. Or collect some more and then ask him.
I’d argue against getting it regulated. There is absolutely no need as it’s within spec. Open it up and risk issues. I did this once to ‘fix’ a date change ‘issue’ and it opened up a whole nightmare.
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Hey ! Stop giving our trade secrets away !!
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A few weeks ago I noticed my BB58 was roughly 2mins slow.
Set it to the atomic clock I use online, then checked it a week later and was almost a minute.
So I set about testing it again over a week as before. Results as below:
Sunday AM - 0 secs PM - -3secs
Monday AM - -5secs PM - -9secs
Tuesday AM - -14secs PM - 17secs
Wednes AM - -22secs PM - -25secs
Thursday AM - -29secs PM - -34secs
Friday AM - -36secs PM - -40secs
Saturday AM - -46secs PM - -50secs
Total average over 7 days -7 secs per day
As you can say a quick check leaving it in the same resting position dial up overnight has this out of COSC spec. Again first world problems I know but slightly annoying on a 18m watch.
Spoke to the AD I purchased it from who mentioned once lockdown is over to book an appointment to check it over (Goldsmiths). Now do I wait for this and I presume they test and send it off it they think it needs a service? Or best to contact Tudar direct? Presume Rolex SC do Tudor?
Under the 5yr warranty still, so I presume looking at the tolerances is covered?
Thanks
-7 would annoy me so I’d send it back direct. Although you will probably have to wait until after lock down.
My BB58 runs at -1.2s per day.
I would definitely contact Tudor directly.
Unless you have a very good relationship with your AD and order to use them as an intermediary.
I’ve only used one AD to send and receive watches from either Rolex or Omega in the past, and purely because their insurance covered anything going missing in the post, and in the unlikely event that it did happen they would have sourced me a replacement.
It's just a matter of time...
Thanks yes is annoying especially when I read others getting either +1 or -1.
Thanks, I presume Rolex UK Head office is the one to contact in St James Sq as the Tudor website mentions this isn't for sales.
St James or Kings Hill.
It's just a matter of time...
OP. From data you provided over this thread it seems your BB58 is running a little slow. If you can bear to wait until after lockdown and travel is available - I would book an appointment (or walk in) to Rolex St James.
They can check and if necessary regulate it while you wait.
I’ve always found RSJ a very pleasant experience and you’ll get a chance to check the refurbished fixtures.
Martyn.
Ok after a week off doing some small testing, advice received here.
Set via an atomic clock Monday morning, worn all day until night time, leave over night dial up, re-check in the morning against said clock, repeat for 7 days.
Below are my finding. Unsure whether this is good or not. Guess my +2secs was a wild inaccurate assumption (maybe I meant the reverse haha). Yes still within cosc from what I understand, but unsure if the timing's below are anything to worry about (in the current climate I know it's not) but you get my drift of the thread.
Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 18th January 2021 at 12:42.
Interesting thoughts here, do the people in the know recommend taking a watch off overnight leaving it in a resting position? I keep my watch on 24/7 unless in the shower if it’s not water proof.
Are you sure they still do this? Kings Hill do not offer a while you wait regulation service.
RSJ did this last time I was there in 2019 (no idea what happened to 2020 I think it was a worm-hole). Others can chip in.
you can ring them to check of course :-)
I use Kings Hill as that is relatively local, they do not offer this any more. I would assume RSJ is the same but I don’t know. Maybe some Londoner can advise.
This came up fairly recently and a few mentioned that they had had watches regulated at RSJ just before their refurb, so not too long ago.
Thanks all for the replies and help especially Omegamanic & Martyn. Spoke with Kings Hill as local to me, & requested an email to which I got a reply. Need to wait for lockdown to end before booking an appointment. I like the idea of St James doing it in a day if possible, depending why restrictions are happening could see me visit a few more places. If not I’ll go the local route.
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