I’m fancying a set of “bins” nothing huge magnification, some compact 8x25 or similar and done the usual browsing. I’m aware that some of the older Zeiss, Leica, Leitz German stuff was proper quality of Lens and build and wondering for any given price point will the older stuff be better. Eg for £200 will I get more for my money buying a 1990s pair of Zeiss than a new, no doubt Chinese made set.
Is it the case that optics and coatings are far better now. Any advice would be appreciated
Sundial is your man.hopefully he'll post.
I ended up going with a pair of 8x 30 Swarovski CL and couldnt be happier.
Compact so fits in pocket hence more likely to take with you on trips etc.Amazed with the image quality.
Modern is better than old across the piece; but the big names are always still worth seeking out.
See if you can try Leica vs Swarovski vs Nikon etc in store to see what you like, then try to find the best range in the best condition that your budget permits.
And, if you’re set on 8x25 and understand the trade offs, then I applaud your decision. Don’t listen to a bunch of internet opinion on 32s and what have you... everybody’s different :)
I went with Ultravid 10x25s and have never looked back. Good luck.
Get yourself old Russian binoculars. You can find them for 50 - 100 euro. Like these: https://www.ebay.co.uk/b/Ussr-Binocu.../bn_7023599507 You'll be amazed!
I went budget with the Barr & Stroud Sierra 8x32
They've been brilliant on our regular walks around wetlands and RSPB reserves.
I had seen some Leitz/Leica Trinovid 8x20s which can be bought for about £150 used. I just get the impression that age may disadvantage them but then were they better made 20 yrs ago
Vintage Zeiss Dialyt 10x40 here, love 'em. Also Celestron 10 x 32 TrailSeekers which I don't mind the kids bashing around.
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
Personally, like watches, I’d always go for used quality over new mediocre. Whatever you do buy, it is very important to try them first. Not every model, regardless of quality/price point, suits every user.
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Check out the charity shops. Some amazing bargains. I've got 2 pair that were left to me, 8x50 Sears and a neat pair of 10x30 Russian (Cryllic marked) both are super clear.
I bought a pair of 10 x 25 Leicas brand new about 25 years ago and they are still perfect today, however I have looked after them. The advantage of small binoculars is that you carry them and use them more often. If you buy big bulky binoculars, they will only get used now and then because you will soon get fed up with hunking them around.
I believe that after about 20 years, even top quality binoculars become at risk from fungus and dust inside the lens.
The best bet, as always, is to buy the best brand new.
Personally I would endorse the recommendations to go for quality.
Zeiss, Swarovski and Leica all make great binoculars, and you can pick up some excellent secondhand sets for relatively little money - not £200 admittedly but perhaps £500 to £600.
Personally I prefer the colour rendition of Leicas (I have two pairs) but the aftercare service from Swarovski is justifiably legendary. Many people I know have sent their battered Swaros off to Austria for refurbishment and received them back in pristine condition and at no charge. I have a Swaro spotting scope and Swaro 8.5x42 binos that are used extensively, and even though probably 15 years old they are still a delight to look through.
I recently advised someone who wanted a secondhand pair for wildlife watching at dawn and dusk and they ended up getting a pair of Swaro 8x56's from Ace Optics (https://www.aceoptics.co.uk/). I saw them the other day and they were in fantastic condition. I see Ace Optics have a pair of 8x30's at the moment.
The Zeiss 7x42 and 10x40 BGAT's are also worth looking out for - the prices have dropped compared to a few years ago. Again I know of many sets still in regular use.
If your budget won't stretch to those then perhaps consider the Zeiss Jena 10x42 Notarems. I have a pair (yes, I have a binocular "problem") and whilst they do not have the optical coatings to deliver an outstanding image they are more than adequate for regular daylight use.
P.S. Other shops worth looking at for s/h binos are:
https://www.at-infocus.co.uk/product...ed-binoculars/
http://rmacleod.co.uk/Category/Optic...rs#&&page=list
I see Macleod's have a pair of used Leica 10x25 BCA's for £225.......(I have a pair of these as well, great for travelling)
Last edited by willie_gunn; 28th February 2020 at 09:59.
Great thread as have had similar thoughts and questionsOriginally Posted by Ashtons99
Thanks
New binoculars generally have better performance than older models and the amount you have to spend to get a decent result is coming down all the time.
The best view for your kind of budget would be a year old/ex demo pair by Hawke or Opticron they have lots of models in budget.
I've got a pair of Zeiss Jenoptem 10 x 50 I bought new over twenty years ago and which are still difficult to beat.
As mentioned earlier they are great for airshows etc but can be a bit cumbersome to carry around so for holidays etc I've got some 8 x 40 Olympus which are excellent and nice and light.
Funnily enough a couple of years back I bought a pair of Miranda 8 X 30 in excellent nick from a boot sale for 50p which are great for back garden bird watching plus I don't my my Grandsons using them!
Cheers,
Neil.
I had a nice pair of bins my Wife bought me in 1976 Nikon, they were expensive but
very good, lasted really well, I bought myself some Olympus 10x50 £120 and they are brilliant.
Most binoculars offer good imaging but it's not until someone tries a top of the range e.g., German, Czech, Austrian, Japanese instrument that they can appreciate the difference compared to a Chinese manufactured binocular. Buying secondhand can save £££ if you understand exactly what you're buying and know how to set up a binocular properly … for your own particular eyes ... for optimum imaging/ observing. Time spent studying a few You Tube videos showing how to optimally set up a binocular is well worth the effort. I'm amazed that watch collectors who spend £'000s on e.g. a Rolex watch, are happy to buy a cheap Chinese binocular. Remember that a binocular is in effect two telescopes side by side ... and their combined images when set up properly should give you a superb 3D viewing experience. Would you buy e.g. a £15 telescope? No? But you might be persuaded to buy a cheapo £30 binocular … in effect 2x very average quality £15 telescopes :( . When choosing a binocular consider its field of view and its 'eye relief' … before considering its magnification. If you wear glasses you'll likely need a binocular with at least 15mm eye relief in order to see the whole field of view. However, you can probably adjust the diopter correction of the binocular so that you do not need to wear your glasses. Avoid a too high magnification e.g. 10x and greater because high mag models are more difficult to hold steady. Binoculars with 7 x and 8x magnification are generally easier to use and usually offer a wider field of view. If you're over 50 years of age, avoid binoculars with exit pupils in excess of 6mm … most observers' eyes once we're into our 50s are limited as to their own eyes' entry pupil diameters … a 4mm or 5mm maximum diameter eye entry pupil cannot gather/appreciate the brightness of a 6mm, or 7mm exit pupil binocular. To check a binocular's exit pupil, divide the objective lens diameter by the magnification … e.g. a 7x50 bino has a 50mm diameter objective and 7x magnification … hence 50/7 exit pupil which = 7.14 mm exit pupil diameter … likely a 'too wide' exit pupil for a middle aged observer … but OK for a youngster whose eye entry pupils have not yet 'shrunk' with age. Always best to 'try before you buy' to make sure the binocular's ergonomics, magnification, brightness, weight, and build quality are to your liking. And remember that a good old fashioned porro prism design will likely perform better than a sleek compact roof prism model … especially for astronomical observing. If buying vintage binoculars be aware that their optical coatings may not be as efficient as modern multi-coated designs … and modern phase coated roof prism instruments will likely be a lot brighter than e.g. 1980s roof prism models. If buying secondhand please don't be too concerned about a few scratches on the optics … scratches usually do not compromise the image … and they can be a tool for £negotiating a discount. . One of my favourite binoculars is a 1998 Nikon Adventurer HG 8x42 bought s/h from 'In Focus' at Bird Fair 2013 … I tried all their high end s/h models and the Nikon suited me best ergonomically and also imaged the best … even though its optics were visibly scratched … being scratched the price was discounted down to approx £300 but the scratches make no difference to the image.
https://www.allbinos.com/binoculars_reviews.html … good site for checking binocular reviews and specifications e.g. https://www.allbinos.com/index.html?...tki&test_l=225 … and https://www.allbinos.com/index.html?...tki&test_l=297 … no binocular is perfect … none tick all the boxes as 10/10 … but some tick better than others
Ace Optics usually has a good selection of s/h binoculars. https://www.aceoptics.co.uk/secondha...acturer=84&p=1 … note price difference between Zeiss T* and Zeiss T* P … latter have Phase coated prisms
And Cley Spy sell lots of s/h binoculars … https://www.cleyspy.co.uk/used-equip...inoculars.html worth checking daily as they sell quickly
LCE also worth checking daily https://www.lcegroup.co.uk/Secondhan...n=&Results=100
Also Ffordes https://www.ffordes.com/c/494/binocu...&f=srt:3&x=srt
Note some dealers list Leitz binoculars as Leica. Older Leitz models generally do not have as efficient optical coatings as modern Leica instruments.
Adjustment of a binocular’s inter-ocular distance and diopter ring setting:
To adjust your binocular for optimum imaging, first adjust the angle between the eyepieces to suit your own eyes … so that a perfectly circular image is seen with no overlap. Don't try and focus at this stage … just concentrate on adjusting the binocular hinge to obtain the circular image. Best achieved without wearing glasses so as to see the whole field of view.
If an observer has to wear glasses, fold the eyecups back … thus bringing the eyepiece lenses closer to the spectacles and the eyes.
After obtaining the circular image by adjusting the hinge / angle between the eyepieces, you can now adjust the focus.
Unless an observer has acute astigmatism there is usually no need to wear glasses. Any short sight or long sight can be accommodated by the binocular’s focus adjustment(s)
To adjust focus: Close your right eye so that you're using only the LHS eyepiece. Adjust LHS focus via the centre focus wheel by observing e.g. a parked car number plate c. 50 yards distant. Keep your right eye closed whilst focusing with your left eye.
After obtaining good LHS focus, close your left eye and open the right eye … and see if the number plate or whatever other subject you've chosen, is in focus when looking through the RHS eyepiece. Chances are it will not be in perfect focus … please keep the left eye closed whilst inspecting the RHS image with your right eye .
If not in focus, turn the RHS eyepiece’s 'diopter adjustment' ring until the image snaps into focus … do not turn the centre wheel focus again … only turn the diopter adjustment + and – ring on the RHS eyepiece. As the diopter ring is turned, the RHS image will snap in and out of focus. When the RHS eyepiece image is in best focus you can then open your left eye … whence you should be able to see a perfectly circular, three dimensional, perfectly focused, binocular image using both eyes
Now that the RHS eyepiece has been adjusted you should be able to adjust the focus via the centre wheel only for any distance … and without further RHS eyepiece diopter adjustment.
Make a note of the actual RHS eyepiece diopter adjustment … it will be either a PLUS (+) or MINUS (-) or ZERO setting … which will suit your eyes and can be set every time you use the binocular. You can mark the RHS eyepiece diopter correction setting with a tiny piece of sticky tape to assist setting up the bino each time you use it.
Health and Safety Warning: Never use binoculars for observing the Sun … to do so risks instant blindness from the Sun’s invisible UV light.
dunk
Last edited by sundial; 15th January 2021 at 03:08.
"Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"
Thanks Dunk, very intuitive
So looking at a binocular Leica Ultravid & Swarovski CL10x25 both showing a 2.5mm exit pupil - are these adequate for 55+ observers eyes
Fine for daytime use and very portable / compact … but 2.5mm exit pupil might not be so suitable for low light / night time use … because 2.5mm exit pupil does not 'let in' as much light as e.g. a 4mm or 5mm exit pupil. It's possible to measure your eye's own entry pupil diameter and thus determine the most suitable binocular exit pupil diameter for your eyes. There should be a You Tube video demonstrating entry pupil measurement … not to be confused with pupillary distance
dunk
Last edited by sundial; 28th February 2020 at 18:17.
"Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"
Thanks Dunk, some food for thought there.
We’ve been down on the north norfolk coast this week, a lot of folk walking around with the twitcher equivalent of a Patek round their neck !
I have my Dads Canon IS binoculars, they must be 15 years old and aside from the rubberised finish having perished a bit they are still fantastic - a press of the button brings the image stabilisation in to play and you can easily track flying or fast moving objects e.g. birds or race horses.
Canon IS binoculars are excellent and punch above their weight as regards image brightness. The only downside is that they need batteries to power the IS but if lithium batteries are fitted they can last several hours and more. I have three Canon IS binos bought s/h and ex demo … they're lent out at star parties and attendees are amazed to observe e.g. Jupiter's moons. I also lend out Ross, and Kershaw, WW2 issue 6x mag. porro prism binoculars (charity shop purchases) … observers are amazed at their imaging quality considering the optics are not coated and the instruments are over 75 years young. 6x mag binoculars have wide fields of view for panoramic views of the night skies.
dunk
Last edited by sundial; 28th February 2020 at 20:14.
"Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"
This comes up from time to time, have a search through G&D for binoculars.
I still use the pair you sold me a few years ago, Dunk. I was so impressed with them, I bought the 18x50is for sky watching at night. Chunky, but amazing. I find even after hitting the stabilise button, if you can stay still, the image continues to improves for 10 seconds or so as the stabilisation settles down and has to work less hard.
Gary
- - - Updated - - -
I still use the pair you sold me a few years ago, Dunk. I was so impressed with them, I bought the 18x50is for sky watching at night. Chunky, but amazing. I find even after hitting the stabilise button, if you can stay still, the image continues to improves for 10 seconds or so as the stabilisation settles down and has to work less hard.
Gary
Hi Gary … Good to know the Canon IS binos are still working … they must be quite old now thus VG build quality ref the electronics and optics. I still use the Canon IS 10x42 and IS 15x50 … both have superb bright images.
dunk
"Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"
Hi Dunk, is the Canon IS 15x50 the one to get for sky gazing rather than 18x50?
Reading your comments on exit pupil size and looking at the specs of Canon IS 15x50, 18x50, 10x42 (2.8, 3.3, 4.2 respectively). Is 2.5 vs 3.3 very different in practice? Obviously 10x42s much brighter but lesser FOV.
Hi
Suggest a look-see on Birding/Hunting forums - many change binos for the latest versions and
great pre-versions can be had. Swarovski do have 'platinum' service; Zeiss not so.
Minox do some good mid-range (BG I think, with Argon gas/Schott glass) with life-time warranty.
Interesting review site - https://www.allbinos.com/
L-K
I had the chance to test Celestron Cometron 7x50 & Swarovski Habicht 10x40
TheSwarovski Habicht 10x40 W/GA binoculars that I purschased on ebay, I'd say they would almost compete with the Swarowski EL. I expect the bid to end around $700. They lack the field flattening eyepieces, but center sharpness will probably be the same. Timeless porro prism design, with modern coatings.
I own a pair of the 8x30w's and they are light, sharp, and fit the hand great... Made the switch from Meostar 8x42s and am glad I did!
Cometron's views of signs, trees, and a bi-wing airplane that happened to fly by, were as clear and colorful and the Habicht in daylight. The only difference I noticed was that the Habicht has a distinct black "frame" that's visible around the image. The Cometron's image goes nearly to the edge of the binocular's view. I've been using the Cometron for a couple of years, although purchased them exclusively for astronomy) https://wildproofgear.com/best-binoc...or-stargazing/
So I got used to that frame. In the night sky, both showed sharp stars. On red stars, the color showed in both but was a bit more vivid in the Habicht. That could have simply been due to the small increase in magnification. Again, though, the intensity of red star color was slight. Considering the price gap, the Cometron easily held its own. all Swarowski binos might distinguish itself in more demanding observing tasks, but on this night the Cometron impressed me.
I dug out an oldish set of Minox BV 10x 42s I’ve had for a few years and I’ve been getting on with those although you get some funny looks when you walk into RSPB places with cammo binos!
The last time there was a long-running binocular thread on here, there were several recommendations for these:
Olympus Binocular 10 x 50 DPS-1
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0000AKGX3/
OP - a word of warning.
Under no circumstances ever look through these:
https://www.swarovskioptik.com/hunti...p5x42-p5222897
unless you have the cash in hand to purchase on the spot.
If someone lets you look through their pair, decline gracefully.
There are not many things in the world, that with a bit of hardcore saving, can be bought by everyone, and are functionally perfect.
These would be one of those things.
Last edited by Rob (NZ); 2nd April 2020 at 08:39. Reason: typo
this is true,for many years i collected optics mainly binoculars. one day when i was it bit flush i bought a pair of 10x42 swarovski EL's.once i had used them everthing else i owned seemed crap.nowadays i just have the swarovski's.
You’ve caught my interest !
Edited ......I’ve just looked at the price !!!!!!!!
Has anyone any experience or thoughts on the Swarovski Habicht 10x40 W, really like the look of them and although limited knowledge on anything binocular they look fantastic
I recommended the Olympus previously but its not the 10x50's, it was the 8x40's, they have a much wider field of view and I can say from experience they are amazing for £59.99 delivered, I'm not saying they are the best built bino you'll hold but mine are beautifully bright and sharp and the wide field is lovely to take in..
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0001M3612/?th=1
Saying that the 7x35's look even wider field and are more compact so may suit you better, plus they are cheaper at £54.99..
Last edited by murkeywaters; 1st April 2020 at 10:49.
As a side question why do people use binoculars and just a small telescope?
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IME not as convenient to use, binoculars are faster to 'get on target' and more comfortable to hold.
I do.
When I am walking the dogs or otherwise not primarily engaged in spotting wildlife I carry a Leica monocular. I find it much more convenient to stick the monocular in a pocket than carry the binoculars. I don't find it particularly hard to use - I just keep looking at the wildlife and then bring the monocular up to my eye.
I find a proper 3-draw telescope, on the other hand, requires a different technique.
It’s like the difference in sound, ones mono the other is stereo, stereo sounds better..
The top of the range binos from the likes of Swaro’, Zeiss, Leica are also known as Alphas, serious optics for serious money, one day I plan on owning a pair..
Last edited by murkeywaters; 1st April 2020 at 23:14.
Seeing S-J's pair of binos jogged my memory.
I forgot about these - a pair of Carl Zeiss 6x24 Binoculars (Prismatic No 3, Mark I, Acceptance Number 3677, R/N L5069/L459344) dating from 1917 and manufactured by Carl Zeiss (London) Ltd as part of a contract to the British military. The company was wound up in January 1917, in accordance with the "Trading with the Enemy Act, 1916" when manufacturing, along with the Mill Hill factory and all the machinery and fittings, was handed over to Ross, another famous optics manufacturer.
I know the above primarily from information gleaned from the Flickr site here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/binocwpg/ which contains some other fantastic old binoculars.
Despite being over 100 years old, and considering their military usage, this pair are still in remarkably good condition and have patina in abundance. The image remains very good, though they would undoubtedly benefit from a service.
I am not 100% sure, but I believe I picked them up from a jumble sale in Canterbury when I was in my early teens. If my memory is correct, this would be one of the rare occasions when my magpie instincts turned up something good!
That is superb, WG.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Top range binos are wonderful things to own and use but to be honest if you only use binos occasionally, and then during regular daylight hours, then they are a bit of a waste of money.
There are some very good binos out there such as Minox, Vortex and others that will do 95% of the job at perhaps 10% of the price.
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You could do worse than Nikon 8x42 HG or the sublime 8x32 SE.
Both secondhand.
The 8x42 are waterproof and heavy but the view is fab.
The 8x32 are light and nimble, not waterproof but the view is fab.
I got both of mine secondhand. If you’re near Dorset come and try them both. If you want to go further down the rabbit hole check out leaded vs unleaded glass. The changeover took place around year 2000.
Last edited by catch21; 4th April 2020 at 16:40. Reason: Nikons are HG not HD
I'm not saying that it can't be found at a lower price point, but what you should be getting in the "alpha" binoculars, is a perfect "singular image".
Both tubes exactly the same focal length/magnification, and aligned perfectly. When you look through them, you will be presented with a single view, just like you get with your own eyes.
I never saw this until around 1996, when a friend returning from rafting down the Yukon River, gave me the pair of Zeiss BGAT roof prism bins he bought in the states for the trip.
He said nothing as he handed them to me.
I looked through them for about two seconds.
Jaw on the floor, I looked at him, we both said at the same time "singular image".
Last edited by Rob (NZ); 2nd April 2020 at 09:28.
Folks just to resurrect this one.
On paper I’m down to Leica Ultravid.
Just interested to hear views on the 8x20 vs the 10x25
Unfortunately in these difficult times I’m not able to get my eyes behind a set. For general use, carrying whilst walking, nothing really specific would one be better the other in any particular respect
I would say 8x. A few years ago I bought 10x Nikons and have been shocked that in being those few years older how shakey I have become under magnifacation and I slightly regret that choice.
If you are under 40 it wont bother you....well, depending on cafine, alcohol, exhaustion......
You're taking a risk buying any compact binocular i.e. 20mm and 25mm diameter objectives without trying them first ... especially if buying an Ultravid
Compact binoculars are not everyone's cuppa. The 2.5mm exit pupils in such a small binocular could compromise low light observing. And when pulled out of your pocket they require more setting up / adjustment to optimise the inter-ocular distance, and the eyecup settings (to optimise the FOV), than a larger binocular. Compact size might appeal ... but the ergonomics could be deal breaker. A friend bought a Leica compact binocular and he struggles with its ergonomics .. but he keeps it just because it's a Leica ... he's nuts!
But if you buy s/h e.g.
https://www.aceoptics.co.uk/secondha...nufacturer=190
https://www.lcegroup.co.uk/Used/Leic...11_270856.html ... but these need double checking to make sure that are Leica and not the older Leitz model … I wonder why the dealer has not shown actual logos :( ? Dealers often describe 'Leitz' binos as as 'Leica' … there is big difference in coating technologies between the two models
... you can send 'em back if not suitable
dunk
Last edited by sundial; 24th April 2020 at 09:31.
"Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"
Thanks again Dunk
The dilemma I have is that I want the best(within reason) ones I can get that I can just stick in my bum bag when I’m out biking, walking etc. Once objective lenses get up to 35-40mm the size of the binos are just a bit more than I want.
I think I may be getting to the point now where I’m thinking it may be worthwhile just holding off spending any money until I can actually try the ones I’m interested in. Is it the case that compact models will always compromise optical performance
Totally agree, as I said previously, trying yourself before committing is vital. I do have the 10x25 ultravids but must say they are the most difficult binoculars of my 3 pairs to use. This is especially so if you want to bring to the eye and focus quickly. However, for the intended application they are a superb high quality instrument.
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Folks
After starting this thread and listening to people on here I ended up buying these Leica 8x20 BC
I’ve been so impressed with them, they sit in their pouch either in my pocket or on my rucksack belt. They are comfy just to walk around with wrapped in the palm of my hand. The optics are lovely. Obviously some optical compromise but for ease of use they are great
Ignore the hip flask- once you’ve downed it you’re not bothered what you’re looking at !
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