Originally Posted by Yeti
Been following this thread closely. I can’t say I know much about binoculars but il echo the above about not looking through a decent pair as it will be a slippery slope...
This was my journey into binocular ownership going back about 5 years...
This was my first pair of binoculars, bought via recommendation via my late uncle and what I thought was a perfectly acceptable image..
Pentax 10x25 ucfx11 (circa £100)
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Hi Yeti
I have a similar Pentax binocular to yours but mine is a zoom model, , I bought them second hand for just £25, I leave them in the car in case ever needed!!
I also have a Sunagor 15-70x27, They're absolute tat as can be imagined!!
John
Like cameras, the best binoculars are the ones you have with you at the time.Hi Yeti
I have a similar Pentax binocular to yours but mine is a zoom model, , I bought them second hand for just £25, I leave them in the car in case ever needed!!
I also have a Sunagor 15-70x27, They're absolute tat as can be imagined!!
John
Absolute tat they may be, but better to have them than not!
Yes, those vintage, WWI Zeiss (London), are way cool!
Best wishes,
Bob
If you have the £££ and strong arms LCE is listing a Night Owl 8x56 https://www.lcegroup.co.uk/Used/Zeis...ed_275584.html price is bit on the high side but maybe £negotiable in current climate
… read above Oregon Photos review … these are very scarce and seldom listed for sale .
But please bear in mind for many observers these binoculars might not be suitable … the binos have a 7mm exit pupil which likely larger than he average middle-aged observer's eye pupil.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20506961
However, for low light observing if your eyes have decent sized pupils they would be excellent.
dunk
Last edited by sundial; 9th April 2020 at 15:17.
"Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"
I have an old pair of German army Zeiss Hensoldt 8x30’s the rubber eye covers have perished and fallen off but the image quality is great and the only real downside is having to adjust each eyepiece but I find I can do it by feel and guesswork while looking through them and wanting to focus closer/further away.
Think they were only just over £100 but this was years ago now, they seem to go for a lot more now.
Folks just to resurrect this one.
On paper I’m down to Leica Ultravid.
Just interested to hear views on the 8x20 vs the 10x25
Unfortunately in these difficult times I’m not able to get my eyes behind a set. For general use, carrying whilst walking, nothing really specific would one be better the other in any particular respect
I would say 8x. A few years ago I bought 10x Nikons and have been shocked that in being those few years older how shakey I have become under magnifacation and I slightly regret that choice.
If you are under 40 it wont bother you....well, depending on cafine, alcohol, exhaustion......
You're taking a risk buying any compact binocular i.e. 20mm and 25mm diameter objectives without trying them first ... especially if buying an Ultravid
Compact binoculars are not everyone's cuppa. The 2.5mm exit pupils in such a small binocular could compromise low light observing. And when pulled out of your pocket they require more setting up / adjustment to optimise the inter-ocular distance, and the eyecup settings (to optimise the FOV), than a larger binocular. Compact size might appeal ... but the ergonomics could be deal breaker. A friend bought a Leica compact binocular and he struggles with its ergonomics .. but he keeps it just because it's a Leica ... he's nuts!
But if you buy s/h e.g.
https://www.aceoptics.co.uk/secondha...nufacturer=190
https://www.lcegroup.co.uk/Used/Leic...11_270856.html ... but these need double checking to make sure that are Leica and not the older Leitz model … I wonder why the dealer has not shown actual logos :( ? Dealers often describe 'Leitz' binos as as 'Leica' … there is big difference in coating technologies between the two models
... you can send 'em back if not suitable
dunk
Last edited by sundial; 24th April 2020 at 09:31.
"Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"
Thanks again Dunk
The dilemma I have is that I want the best(within reason) ones I can get that I can just stick in my bum bag when I’m out biking, walking etc. Once objective lenses get up to 35-40mm the size of the binos are just a bit more than I want.
I think I may be getting to the point now where I’m thinking it may be worthwhile just holding off spending any money until I can actually try the ones I’m interested in. Is it the case that compact models will always compromise optical performance
I have some Leica BCA Trinovid 10x25, their 80’s/90’s version, got them off SC for £150 I think.
The only thing is there is a tiny chip in the left eye piece which doesn’t seem to affect the view, I have been tempted to send these to Leica for a service which would sort this out but I heard servicing costs are quite high and would probably make it unreasonable for the overall value of binocular.
Saying that they are great little binos for walking or picking up at home when I see birds on the feeder, very clear and sharp going to the edges of view with good contrast, big difference taking these on a walk and a pair of 40mm bins.
If your out in normal daylight going into dusk high quality 25mm objectives are fine, 8x will give you a bit more light and steady the view, don’t expect wide field views but that’s not really what compact binos are for, wide field flat views, sharp to the edge, great contrast and build quality all add up to big money in binoculars.
Last edited by murkeywaters; 25th April 2020 at 07:12.
Follow Dunk's advice and try the compacts first, as the ergonomics are quite different compared to a full size set.
In terms of overall performance they are a compromise. The image is still super sharp, and depending on the coatings the contrast and colour rendition can be excellent, but they are more fiddly to use and suffer in poor light. Personally I prefer the Leica monocular over the compact binoculars, though that may just be me, though I also find the compacts a tad more difficult to set up in terms of inter-ocular distance.
That said, they are super convenient to carry and - compared to cheaper compact binos - I love the quality of the Leicas. Keep in mind, though, that like Dunk's friend I have a thing about Leica, though in my case it's because my father used their cameras professionally.
If you were closer you'd be very welcome to borrow them and see how they work for you.
Totally agree, as I said previously, trying yourself before committing is vital. I do have the 10x25 ultravids but must say they are the most difficult binoculars of my 3 pairs to use. This is especially so if you want to bring to the eye and focus quickly. However, for the intended application they are a superb high quality instrument.
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
Thanks very much all of you. I think it may be worth me holding off until I can actually get hold of the various ones
Have you considered using a proper binocular harness? They are available in various sizes and store the binocular close to your chest without any 'flopping around'. More secure than a 'bum bag' ... especially on a bike. And used by thousands of observers ... because they improve the whole system's ergonomics. A binocular harness would enable carrying e.g. an 8x30 or 8x32 in comfort ... and with instant readiness.
dunk
"Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"
I haven’t heard of one of those. I will look into it but given the amount I am looking to spend I’m going to sit tight and wait until I can actually try the ones I’m interested in.
Further to my above post about quality small binoculars, these Leica 10x25 BCA Trinovid’s are super sharp, bright and clear, yes there is an advantage to bigger objectives but there is also a big advantage to having binos with you when you need them..
My intention is to go and compare back to back the Leica Ultravid 8x20 vs the 10x25...I think 🤔Further to my above post about quality small binoculars, these Leica 10x25 BCA Trinovid’s are super sharp, bright and clear, yes there is an advantage to bigger objectives but there is also a big advantage to having binos with you when you need them..
Just want to bump this great thread in the hope anyone knows of any good deals on some budget binoculars. I'm after a smallish pair that could maybe fit in a big coat pocket so maybe around 8x30.
Budget? Not really got a clue. I know I can't afford some decent Swarovski. But is there anything out there that comes close? I see minox and vortex mentioned earlier in the thread. Maybe a pair of minox HG or vortex viper HG?
Last edited by sprite1275; 22nd January 2021 at 13:08.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pentax-Papi...1324184&sr=8-1. ... good value; VG build quality; excellent close focus ... and being porro prism rather than roof prism offer better image quality for the ££price ... Will fit in a large pocket
They might look a bit odd / unconventional but that's the 'reverse porro' design ... All Pentax are now under the Ricoh umbrella and made in China but this is not a 'badge engineered' Chinese bino.
I use the same binocular myself - particularly for its close focus facility when observing pond fauna (e.g. pond snails and newts) at a nature reserve.
6.5x21 (3.2mm exit pupil) is plenty bright enough for daylight use. 6.5x magnification may not appear to be a large magnification but it's fine for general observing. Choosing higher magnification 'compact' models will limit 'field of view' and image brightness.
I also convert my Papillio 6.5x21 into a stereo microscope by 'coaxing' a large diameter achromatic close-up lens onto the front objectives ... used at public star parties for indoor demonstrations observing meteorite specimens ... kids and their parents are amazed.
I would not buy the 8.5x mag Papillio without testing it ... 2.4mm exit pupil limits image brightness and has a 105m field of view ... compared to the 6.5x mag's 131m FOV
Whichever binocular you decide to buy it will require setting up properly to optimise imaging:
Adjustment of a 'centre focusing' binocular’s inter-ocular distance and diopter ring setting
To adjust your binocular for optimum imaging, first adjust the angle between the eyepieces to suit your own eyes … so that a perfectly circular image is seen with no overlap. Don't try and focus at this stage … just concentrate on adjusting the binocular hinge (or adjustable prism housings) to obtain the circular image. Best achieved without wearing glasses so as to see the whole field of view.
If an observer has to wear glasses, fold the eyecups back … thus bringing the eyepiece lenses closer to the spectacles and the eyes.
After obtaining the circular image by adjusting the hinge / angle between the eyepieces, you can now adjust the focus.
Unless an observer has acute astigmatism there is usually no need to wear glasses. Any short sight or long sight can be accommodated by the binocular’s focus adjustment(s)
To adjust focus: Close your right eye so that you're using only the LHS eyepiece. Adjust LHS focus via the centre focus wheel by observing e.g. a parked car number plate c. 50 yards distant. Keep your right eye closed whilst focusing with your left eye.
After obtaining good LHS focus, close your left eye and open the right eye … and see if the number plate or whatever other subject you've chosen, is in focus when looking through the RHS eyepiece. Chances are it will not be in perfect focus … please keep the left eye closed whilst inspecting the RHS image with your right eye .
If not in focus, turn the RHS eyepiece’s 'diopter adjustment' ring until the image snaps into focus … do not turn the centre wheel focus again … only turn the diopter adjustment + and – ring on the RHS eyepiece. As the diopter ring is turned, the RHS image will snap in and out of focus. When the RHS eyepiece image is in best focus you can then open your left eye … whence you should be able to see a perfectly circular, three dimensional, perfectly focused, binocular image using both eyes
Now that the RHS eyepiece has been adjusted you should be able to adjust the focus via the centre wheel only for any distance … and without further RHS eyepiece diopter adjustment.
Make a note of the actual RHS eyepiece diopter adjustment … it will be either a PLUS (+) or MINUS (-) or ZERO setting … which will suit your eyes and can be set every time you use the binocular. You can mark the RHS eyepiece diopter correction setting with a tiny piece of sticky tape to assist setting up the bino each time you use it.
Health and Safety Warning: Never use binoculars for observing the Sun … to do so risks instant blindness from the Sun’s invisible UV light.
dunk
Last edited by sundial; 22nd January 2021 at 16:07.
"Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"
I noticed that even the Zeiss pocket binoculars are now made in China
Zeiss 'Terra' "budget line" are all made in China ... one Chinese factory produces binos for many different brands ... many of which are identical apart from the 'badge' and other cosmetic differences ... but some are subject to better QA and might have better lens and prism coatings.
'High-end' Zeiss with better QA are made in Germany and Hungary ... but not all Zeiss 'high end' in recent years have been well received by some binocular enthusiasts and reviewers.
Older Zeiss 'Night Owl' models are still unbeatable ref their imaging even though over 20 years old ... made with lead glass which not used nowadays
Last edited by sundial; 22nd January 2021 at 20:44.
"Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"
I've been looking for quite a while to move up from my Nikon 9x25s which I've had for a lot of years. 9x25 isn't what I'd choose now, but they were a present, are very good quality and they've served me well. All of my research has led me to the conclusion that Leica Trinovid 8x32 HD are what I need. I have a couple of things to sell and hope to have some by the summer.
F.T.F.A.
Thanks dunk ordered. These look great fun for my daughter and I to use. We're doing the great garden bird watch next week and hopefully these will arrive before then. I've ordered though based on the reviews (and yours of course) because of the near magnification. Watching insects close up will be great. Can I ask where you got your large diameter achromatic close-up lens from?
Also my main reason for wanting some binoculars which I should of put in my post is for birdwatching. Are there any budget binoculars that come close to any alphas? Or is that hoping too much. I've been searching for the cheaper top rated on allbinos such as the Nikon HG L 8x32 DCF but they are hard to find.
Good call on the Pentax Papilio...I'm a fan of these (witness my several posts on this forum about them) and can't beat that price. If anyone would prefer the 8.5x21 at the same price see this link.
I had to search 'alphas' on google and now believe it is a term used by birders to denote the top of the range from quality manufacturers. Since anything but the top of the range from those makers in not considered an 'alpha' then i don't think any 'budget' binoculars will come anywhere near them. What you should do is consider your specification requirement (preferred magnification, optics, weight etc) plus your budget and then go for the best value for money. You could do worse than browse this site link. and there are plenty of others.
Maybe someone on the forum who is a bird watcher will be along with a recommendation, but a hint of your budget would help them keep their suggestions relevant.
Ref large diameter Achromats ... most of mine were bought secondhand from Ffordes ... https://www.ffordes.com/search/achromat Canon are worth searching for eg Canon 500D 77m close up lens ... also Polaroid 250D c/u lenses 77mm diamater ... and similar Marumi Achromat Macro 200 72mm diameter ... Marumi might be making all available large diameter achromats and 'badge engineering' same ... You have to experiment with ways holding the achromats in front of the Pentax Papillio and make sure to use in good light ... any with 65mm diameter or larger can be used but they are not cheap . Similar high mag results can be achieved by holding a large magnifying glass in front of the bino but will not have the edge sharpness that an achromat produces . All achromats are 2 or 3 element lenses whereas magnifying glasses are single element and prone to aberrations
Useful list of achromats http://fuzzcraft.com/achromats.html. .. can be sourced on ebay
If you are interested in examining insects i.e. prepared microscope specimens it's worth considering buying a stereo microscope with a built-in incident light illuminator ... lots available ex demo and s/h eg http://www.usedmicroscopes.co.uk/stereomicroscopes.html
... but check other Brunel sections too eg http://www.usedmicroscopes.co.uk/bargains.html. and http://www.usedmicroscopes.co.uk/vintage.html. ... best to read up on stereo microscopes before buying ... can be addictive .
dunk
EDIT ... Aphas are very high end but some Meopta models are excellent and can equal Leica and Swarovski ... also check Chinese ED models but beware of Chinese QA ... and a good porro prism binocular can out-perform roof prism models . Best to try before you buy ... I usually attend Rutland Bird Fair where there are excellent viewing facilities ... but no idea when Bird Fair will resume
Last edited by sundial; 22nd January 2021 at 23:41.
"Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"
So Dunk, as our resident expert who's opinion is well respected, where would you put your money?
One pair of binoculars, ideally small enough to be easily carried. General use wildlife and motor sport with typical viewing distance of between 20 and 150 metres. Budget up to about £250. New or pre-owned to replace a pair of Nikon 10x 25 Travelite V.
Cheers Dunk and pickle. Some great links again. Meanwhile I'll keep enjoying looking up the best bang for buck binoculars. From what I can gather at the moment the two I mentioned earlier seem a good bet.
Folks
After starting this thread and listening to people on here I ended up buying these Leica 8x20 BC
I’ve been so impressed with them, they sit in their pouch either in my pocket or on my rucksack belt. They are comfy just to walk around with wrapped in the palm of my hand. The optics are lovely. Obviously some optical compromise but for ease of use they are great
Ignore the hip flask- once you’ve downed it you’re not bothered what you’re looking at !
If you're looking for "vintage," I still have the binoculars my parents gave me for my high school graduation in 1965. They're stored in my garage, but look just like these (except in better condition). I think they're Bushnell.
I'm not an expert on all binocular makes / models ... Choice is enormous but a good s/h bino offers better value than new.
ACE OPTICS have a sale ... they appear to be relocating https://www.aceoptics.co.uk. ... I have considered buying the s/h Bushnell 6x25 ... it's old but has a good reputation ... I did not buy because already have two 6x mag binos ... 6x is very useful and usually has wider FOV than 7x and 8x
Also check Ffordes where all s/h can be listed via price https://www.ffordes.com/c/494/binocu...&f=srt:3&x=srt
Also check LCE https://www.lcegroup.co.uk/Secondhan...n=&Results=100
And Cley Spy ... https://www.cleyspy.co.uk/product-ca...sed-equipment/. ... i bought an older Nikon 8x30 porro binocular from Cley Spy last year for less than £200 ... it's compact enough to fit in a large pocket and 8º FOV is superb ... worth looking for on ebay
... dealers stocks updated daily so best to check daily .
Personally, I'd prefer a non-compact and carry it in a small shoulder bag
Any within your budget can be investigated via Allbinos website https://www.allbinos.com. and also via Bird Forum https://www.birdforum.net/categories...ng-scopes.284/. but bear in mind no binocular is perfect... they all have their +ve and -ve attributes
Always ask dealer if used binos have been checked for collimation ... some dealers' staff do not understand how to check that a binocular is in perfect collimation ... collimation has nothing to do with focus
dunk
"Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"
Hi dunk.
Papilio came today. What a great little pair of binoculars. Looking through them I was amazed at how clear and bright the image was. Take into account that I've never looked through any pair of decent binoculars apart from my habicht 7x42 but these are old.
I don't know what I was expecting but they definitely made me have a 'wow' moment. Even sitting close to the fishtank looking at the fish I can't believe the detail you see. Very impressive and thanks for the recommendation.
^^^ Yes they are super little binos ... enjoy them ... especially for their close focus
"Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"
After a bit of searching I've bought myself some Hawke frontier ED X with some help from a 15% off code on eBay. Managed to get them for £288. The spec is very impressive for the price.
• Extra-low Dispersion glass for optimum clarity
• Dielectric Coatings provide increased light reflectivity
• Fully Multi-Coated optics to produce sharp images
• Focus knob with 1.5 turn - close focus: 8.2ft/2.5m
• High resolution Phase Corrected BAK-4 roof prisms
• Water repellent coating on objective lenses
• Lightweight rubber coated magnesium alloy chassis
• Replaceable twist-up eye cups with position stops
• Nitrogen purged - water and fog proof
• High quality hard case with space to store a strap and cleaning cloth
• Hawke lifetime warranty
Not had a lot of time to try them out but the image is very bright and sharp. Really compact and the case supplied is great. Luckily I have not looked through any alpha bins to compare but I find it hard to imagine the image could be that much better. Though I will restrict myself looking through some just incase.
5 Feb '23: s/h Zeiss Jena 10x50 W multicoated porro prism bino .... worth considering if seeking a decent observation / astro binocular:
https://www.lcegroup.co.uk/Used/Zeis...em_362424.html
A decent porro prism will usually out-perform the equivalent roof prism but 10x mag not so easy to handhold as an 8x ... and not recommended for 'shaky hands' observers ... unless used on a tripod
12mm eye relief is short-ish so not so suitable if wearing glasses ... But can be used without your glasses if focus and diopter adjustment is optimised properly.
BW, dunk
Last edited by sundial; 5th February 2023 at 13:54.
"Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"
I have a pair of Pentax 9x32 and love them. Not alphas but a good all rounder.
I once bought a pair of 10x25 Leica binoculars when we took a cruise down the Nile. Basically we spent a full day on the boat looking at hundreds of birds on the bank. For that day alone it was worth it. You only live once so don't lumber yourself with 2nd class.
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