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Thread: Near miss with dodgy E-bay Breitling?

  1. #1
    Craftsman Megatron's Avatar
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    Near miss with dodgy E-bay Breitling?

    One of the many things I've learned over the time I've been a member here are some danger signs for a watch purchase.

    As the E-bay seller below has just told me I have too much time on my hands so why not prove his point and see what you think!

    I'm currently looking for a yellow dial Breitling Chrono Avenger M1 E73360 (hint hint see WTB). I already have one so know them pretty well. A nice looking one has been floating around various sales platforms for a few months; Chrono24 and E-bay on and off. I finally get the funds together and start looking seriously.

    The photos for the advert look familiar and indeed they've been lifted straight off a WUS sales post from March 2019, helpfully showing the serial number and numbers on the paperwork. The watch has a distinctive bracelet as one of the permanent links has been replaced with a removable one. I contact the WUS seller who helpfully tells me the watch is good, but sold to what is probably the same seller in March 2019.

    I message the seller; his E-bay feedback is ok (but not perfect) and he tells me he's had the watch about 2 years and had it serviced in Nov 2019. He sends me a receipt from Watches of Switzerland (but says the service papers are with an insurance company for revaluation - hmmm). I ring Breitling UK - the receipt relates to a watch with a different serial number (same model though) and not the one in the advert.

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/184172388...m=184172388507

    I message the seller asking to clarify and 8 minutes later the original pictures (with serial number visible) are replaced with pictures of what looks like the same watch but with very different paperwork to the WUS and original advert. The serial number is different; the guarantee is different with tippex over the original purchase date; and when I point this out as dodgy he gets mighty cross.

    Before:




    After:





    Also changes the advert to offer to take payment in a bank or police station to check the cash is ok. Would prefer pick up rather than delivery too.

    He's clearly had enough of me by this point and when I point out to him that this all screams dodgy he acts all indignant. Pulls the police station line as if I'm an idiot...which I very well may be.

    So - I clearly do have too much time on my hands but at 11pm last night I very nearly bought it but thanks to what I have learnt here decided to "buy the seller". Thanks to all who have helped educate me and save me from what might have been an expensive mistake.

    To me this screams all sorts of dodgy and I have zero intention of buying it - or are the series of coincidences the seller insists are just coincidences plausible?
    Last edited by Megatron; 26th February 2020 at 19:55.

  2. #2
    Master
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    They're the scary ones who superficially have a decent reputation.

    One problem with eBay is that reporting when reporting a fake you are limited to something like 100 characters so difficult to go into any detail.

  3. #3
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    eBay is horrible for both buying and selling. I sold a low item (£15) watch travel case this week. As it was low value, I just posted it first class. The buyer just messaged me a couple of days later to say they havenít received it. Typical. Post never really gets lost...except if you sell on eBay and donít get signature on delivery. There are some scummy people out there and a lot of them are on eBay.

  4. #4
    Craftsman AKM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    eBay is horrible for both buying and selling. I sold a low item (£15) watch travel case this week. As it was low value, I just posted it first class. The buyer just messaged me a couple of days later to say they havenít received it. Typical. Post never really gets lost...except if you sell on eBay and donít get signature on delivery. There are some scummy people out there and a lot of them are on eBay.
    Without tracking you're exposed - years ago, I had parcels (sent from a family member) stolen by Royal Mail staff from the local depot. A later investigation uncovered the internal fraud, but there wasn't any compensation to customers for parcels sent by first class post. I was glad when I moved house.

    Since moving, I bought stuff off Amazon that never arrived and had the seller get really angry with me, but they used a delivery service without any tracking and couldn't prove it had been delivered so Amazon made them send another item.
    Last edited by AKM; 27th February 2020 at 10:18.

  5. #5
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    I learned the hard way several years back,anything I sell over twenty pounds gets sent tracked.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    eBay is horrible for both buying and selling. I sold a low item (£15) watch travel case this week. As it was low value, I just posted it first class. The buyer just messaged me a couple of days later to say they havenít received it. Typical. Post never really gets lost...except if you sell on eBay and donít get signature on delivery. There are some scummy people out there and a lot of them are on eBay.
    Apologies if I'm teaching my grandmother to suck eggs, but there will be a code on your receipt, use it on royal mail track and trace and if it says delivered ebay will side with you.

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  7. #7
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggertech View Post
    Apologies if I'm teaching my grandmother to suck eggs, but there will be a code on your receipt, use it on royal mail track and trace and if it says delivered ebay will side with you.

    Sent from my SM-A105FN using Tapatalk
    Because it was only worth £15, it wasn’t sent tracked...just 1st class. I’ve got the certificate of posting receipt which shows I’ve posted it and the destination building number and postcode but there is no way to prove the recipient got it.

    Its such low value that I’m not too bothered but its a good reminder to not trust both eBay buyers and Royal Mail without covering yourself.

    I’ve got the original receipt (certificate of posting)...wonder if I can use that and the eBay sale proof to claim from Royal Mail?

    Couple that with a non-paying, non communicating buyer for another low value item (which I’ll have paid an eBay fee to sell), I’m just not going to bother selling low value items any more, it’s not worth the hassle.
    Last edited by Christian; 27th February 2020 at 11:21.

  8. #8
    Craftsman AKM's Avatar
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    The seller seems to be trying too hard to make the watch look legitimate i.e. recently serviced, full set of paperwork, meeting in a police station etc. Where serial numbers don't match and paperwork has been altered, there's a concern that none of this set belongs together, including the service receipt for another watch. I also wouldn't be surprised if some of the items are counterfeit.

    The risk that I'd be most concerned about, is whether watch has been reported lost or stolen as, if so, it could now legally be the property of an insurance company who paid out for a claim.

    A scam to be wary of, is customers who purchased insurance at the point of sale from the retailer, with the sole intention of making a fraudulent loss claim shortly after purchase and in their mind 'getting a free watch'. These policies did not require much proof that the watch had been lost and only covered the watch itself, so it wasn't a claim on the customer's home insurance etc. The retailer would have been happy with a quick and easy sale on an expensive quartz watch (the fraudster just wants something expensive and branded) with further profit coming from commission on the insurance. The customer then sells the watch that they've reported as lost; the buyer may even be complicit in the scam and pay a low price and then, possibly years later, they try to off load the watch. Or the original buyer waits a long time before selling it, but that's less likely.

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    Because it was only worth £15, it wasnít sent tracked...just 1st class. Iíve got the certificate of posting receipt which shows Iíve posted it and the destination building number and postcode but there is no way to prove the recipient got it.
    You can now opt for First/Second Class With Signature - it costs £1 more. It's not tracked (unlike Tracked 24/48) but you can see it's been signed for.
    https://www.royalmail.com/sending/uk...-for-1st-class

  10. #10
    Master PhilipK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggertech View Post
    Apologies if I'm teaching my grandmother to suck eggs, but there will be a code on your receipt, use it on royal mail track and trace and if it says delivered ebay will side with you.
    I believe that eBay changed their rules recently, and they require the seller to have entered the tracking number before the buyer starts an INR claim.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipK View Post
    I believe that eBay changed their rules recently, and they require the seller to have entered the tracking number before the buyer starts an INR claim.
    Yes they have, but it's up to the seller to do that when he posts it to cover himself.

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  12. #12
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    Dodgy as flip

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  13. #13
    Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    I wonder how the police feel about their stations being turned into watch sales centres?

    Are there any police stations left?

  14. #14
    Journeyman Tabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggertech View Post
    Yes they have, but it's up to the seller to do that when he posts it to cover himself.

    Sent from my SM-A105FN using Tapatalk
    If you use eBay's postage programme and take the RM registered 1st or 2nd class option then the tracking details are automatically updated in their system.

    Edit to add - Insurance options are a downside of taking the eBay RM approach. Max value you can specify is £50 iirc.
    Last edited by Tabs; 27th February 2020 at 15:08.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabs View Post
    If you use eBay's postage programme and take the RM registered 1st or 2nd class option then the tracking details are automatically updated in their system.

    Edit to add - Insurance options are a downside of taking the eBay RM approach. Max value you can specify is £50 iirc.
    That's another good way of covering yourself yes. RMSD is the route to go for values over £50.

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  16. #16
    Journeyman Tabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggertech View Post
    That's another good way of covering yourself yes. RMSD is the route to go for values over £50.

    Sent from my SM-A105FN using Tapatalk
    Absolutely and again that can be done online, via RM's site but as already pointed out the buyer must update the Tracking number so the buyer has it.

    I've got an old Commodore C116 for sale at the that's currently at £175 so I'll be taking the RMSD option regardless of where it heads off to.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabs View Post
    Absolutely and again that can be done online, via RM's site but as already pointed out the buyer must update the Tracking number so the buyer has it.

    I've got an old Commodore C116 for sale at the that's currently at £175 so I'll be taking the RMSD option regardless of where it heads off to.
    Wise choice, I sometimes gamble and not use RMSD if an item is about up to about £100, depending what it owes me etc, but more than that no.

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  18. #18
    Journeyman Tabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggertech View Post
    Wise choice, I sometimes gamble and not use RMSD if an item is about up to about £100, depending what it owes me etc, but more than that no.

    Sent from my SM-A105FN using Tapatalk
    It's a gamble that's for sure. As the OP states you have to shop the seller, but from a sellers angle there's little to go on other than the buyers feedback rating and limited purchase/selling history if available.

  19. #19
    Master Alansmithee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    I wonder how the police feel about their stations being turned into watch sales centres?

    Are there any police stations left?
    They were unhappy I forced the door open in my village one.

  20. #20
    Master mycroft's Avatar
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    @ the OP... all the shenanigans youíve described would absolutely put me off buying the watch.

    There are plenty of M1s around, so if I were you I would definitely pass.

    In truth I would never buy a watch of significant value from eBay - far too many tales of woe for my liking.

    Simon

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    I wonder how the police feel about their stations being turned into watch sales centres?

    Are there any police stations left?
    Not sure if they still do, but GMP had a specific area at their main Force HQ where people could conduct Gumtree deals etc etc where it was covered by CCTV and said to be safe for face to face sales.

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  23. #23
    Craftsman Megatron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft View Post
    @ the OP... all the shenanigans youíve described would absolutely put me off buying the watch.

    There are plenty of M1s around, so if I were you I would definitely pass.

    In truth I would never buy a watch of significant value from eBay - far too many tales of woe for my liking.

    Simon
    I'm staying well away - very occasionally a watch that is dealer listed on Chrono24 is also listed on E-bay; but private sales are a bit of a minefield.

    Tried reporting this item but it's still there

  24. #24
    Master
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    My thoughts exactly!
    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    I wonder how the police feel about their stations being turned into watch sales centres?

    Are there any police stations left?
    Sent from my SM-A202F using TZ-UK mobile app

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