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Thread: COVID-19 is now Officially Classified as a Pandemic

  1. #3201
    Master mickylall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpjsavage View Post

    The idea that people can stay 2m away from each other on these sites is laughable.
    Why?
    One of the main reasons that people in the building trade are being vilified is that everyone can see the clips on the news from these super sites in London which are a tiny minority of sites across the country. I'm currently on a site working in an empty house on my own, I get there in my own van and don't have anyone within 50 feet from me. I have enough materials to last a month so why shouldn't I be allowed to work instead of hoping for a government bail out? I don't want a mortgage holiday or any assistance while I'm perfectly capable of earning a wage.
    All that said I fully agree that something needs sorting out for the sites in London, assistance or not I wouldn't be working there for any money

  2. #3202
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickylall View Post
    Why?
    One of the main reasons that people in the building trade are being vilified is that everyone can see the clips on the news from these super sites in London which are a tiny minority of sites across the country. I'm currently on a site working in an empty house on my own, I get there in my own van and don't have anyone within 50 feet from me. I have enough materials to last a month so why shouldn't I be allowed to work instead of hoping for a government bail out? I don't want a mortgage holiday or any assistance while I'm perfectly capable of earning a wage.
    All that said I fully agree that something needs sorting out for the sites in London, assistance or not I wouldn't be working there for any money
    I don't think anyone wants to stop you from working if indeed you're on your own during the day, or with other contractors minding their own business on the site. The issue is more about greater building sites where cooperation between the workers is essential, which means that social distancing only exists in H&S manuals. collective transport is one example. Which is probably why the guidance was worded the way it was. Unfortunately you cannot stop employers for using that as an excuse, because they probably have more work in the pipeline that they could lose if they haven't finished the current one on time.
    Memento Mori

  3. #3203
    Master mickylall's Avatar
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    The guidelines are so vague though, and now we have Police ( quite rightly) stopping people and wanting to know if your work is 'essential'. If he closes the London sites down he will have to close them all and there really isn't a need for it but quite a few will be willing to sit on their arses if there is Government help, very frustrating

  4. #3204
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeB687 View Post
    A long but interesting take on the situation https://youtu.be/JnXzGB170GI

    Sent from my moto g(8) plus using TZ-UK mobile app
    Eh? I couldn't stomach the whole thing but isn't the thrust:

    If you do what China did the outcome is no worse for the young than, say car accidents, so it's not necessary to do what China did?

    I mean, there's so much wrong with that statement it's hard to know where to start.

  5. #3205
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    I had the sad news today that a lad I know passed away due to coronavirus he was 37 years old, all happened very quickly after he was take into hospital on Monday !!

    Be safe people, protect yourselves and each other

    RIP Danny :(
    Last edited by R0bertb00th; 26th March 2020 at 11:58.

  6. #3206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    I don't think anyone wants to stop you from working if indeed you're on your own during the day, or with other contractors minding their own business on the site. The issue is more about greater building sites where cooperation between the workers is essential, which means that social distancing only exists in H&S manuals. collective transport is one example. Which is probably why the guidance was worded the way it was. Unfortunately you cannot stop employers for using that as an excuse, because they probably have more work in the pipeline that they could lose if they haven't finished the current one on time.

    Unfortunately people do, your post is rational, many are completely irrational, my brother had a call complaining about a builder working in his flat by himself (from a chap that lived in the neighboring flat). My example is extreme, a business I am involved with is for a fact using the social distancing protocols, and this is a massive site, some have not runued up for work fair enough otheres want to put food on table for familt again fair enough as long as the protocols are stuck to.

  7. #3207
    Quote Originally Posted by R0bertb00th View Post
    I had the sad news today that a lad I know passed away due to coronavirus he was 37 years old, all happened very quickly after he was take into hospital on Monday !!

    Be safe people, protect yourselves and each other

    RIP Danny :(
    Dreadful news, and exactly, stay safe and look after each other.

    So this isn't an empty post can I add something about percentages.

    The average of 10% and 20% is 15%, right? Wrong. You can't average percentages. Percentages aren't just normal numbers you can do things to willy nilly. Percentages are ratios. Ok, so in some circumstances the average of 10% and 20% will be 15% but that's like saying a stopped watch is right twice a day.

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  9. #3209
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickylall View Post
    Why?
    One of the main reasons that people in the building trade are being vilified is that everyone can see the clips on the news from these super sites in London which are a tiny minority of sites across the country. I'm currently on a site working in an empty house on my own, I get there in my own van and don't have anyone within 50 feet from me. I have enough materials to last a month so why shouldn't I be allowed to work instead of hoping for a government bail out? I don't want a mortgage holiday or any assistance while I'm perfectly capable of earning a wage.
    All that said I fully agree that something needs sorting out for the sites in London, assistance or not I wouldn't be working there for any money
    Although the way you are working sounds fine, there will be others who flout the advice and work next to others. It's those people the rules are made for unfortunately.
    It's just democracy.

  10. #3210
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    We are undertaking a significant build at the moment; we've presently got 4 guys on site including the foreman and the firm is enforcing social distancing - they're mainly working on different floors with one chap up on the roof... They're all driving to site in their own cars, and being compensated for the mileage. Despite these arrangements (which seem to me to be eminently sensible) challenges getting hold of materials mean they have at best another week's work to do before they close up the site and clear off. We've talked with our neighbours about how we are approaching this and nobody seems in the least bit bothered as long as the guys are being sensible on site and not being forced to use the tube.

    I do think commercial mega-sites are a different ball game, though. Then again: the sums of money involved are very, very much larger...

  11. #3211
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickylall View Post
    The guidelines are so vague though, and now we have Police ( quite rightly) stopping people and wanting to know if your work is 'essential'.
    The point is, Essential to who ?

  12. #3212
    Quote Originally Posted by R0bertb00th View Post
    I had the sad news today that a lad I know passed away due to coronavirus he was 37 years old, all happened very quickly after he was take into hospital on Monday !!

    Be safe people, protect yourselves and each other

    RIP Danny :(
    Danny Sharma?

  13. #3213
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    With regards to all this 100% lockdown and vilifying people who skirt a grey area like construction, I would have thought the strategic planners have a good estimate of what percentage is required to lockdown in order to slow things to an acceptable level and what percentage of people will obey or not. Not that it changes how an individual should respond to a set of isolation rules, I suspect human nature is accounted for as part of the plan.

  14. #3214
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    Exclamation

    Two things I've noticed recently as a result of covid...

    Just like during the GPDR fiasco, its a good reminder of how many companies email lists I'm on that I really don't want to be on. Everyone is sending out global emails promoting their response to the virus.

    After not having pruned back my facebook friends in years, I've ended up with a good selection of facebook friends that really don't need to be on there. Those that post crap are now stuck at home posting increasing amounts of crap. I really don't need rebroadcasts of daily news with their own take on stuff (which is mostly just copied from news sources) added like they are giving me expert advice. Good opportunity to do some facebook housekeeping!

  15. #3215
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Seriously, what is it with you and dogs?
    lol, tbf I don't think he is too keen on cats either iirc..

  16. #3216
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    There's going to come a point when a substantial number of people have recovered from COVID-19, while a substantial percentage of the population still needs to be protected. Nadine Dorries sat next to Matt Hancock in the Commons on her return to work, on the basis that she is presumed immune; she couldn't infect him or be infected.

    But I suspect all of us are still going to be subjected to social distancing in the queue at Tesco and whatever other rules might be in effect, aren't we? Even if we've tested positive for the antibodies. Unless there's going to be some sort of immunity ID card you can apply for.

  17. #3217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    Two things I've noticed recently as a result of covid...

    Just like during the GPDR fiasco, its a good reminder of how many companies email lists I'm on that I really don't want to be on. Everyone is sending out global emails promoting their response to the virus.

    After not having pruned back my facebook friends in years, I've ended up with a good selection of facebook friends that really don't need to be on there. Those that post crap are now stuck at home posting increasing amounts of crap. I really don't need rebroadcasts of daily news with their own take on stuff (which is mostly just copied from news sources) added like they are giving me expert advice. Good opportunity to do some facebook housekeeping!
    What you could do is stop following their posts, rather than unfriending them. That way they can still see yours, and they'll feel just that little bit less isolated.

  18. #3218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    .. . Which is probably why the guidance was worded the way it was. Unfortunately you cannot stop employers for using that as an excuse, because they probably have more work in the pipeline that they could lose if they haven't finished the current one on time.
    Not to mention Liquidated Damages, for late completion.

  19. #3219
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
    Not to mention Liquidated Damages, for late completion.
    Indeed. But I would think that these clauses would be hard to enforce in court...
    Memento Mori

  20. #3220
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilford View Post
    Danny Sharma?
    Yes pal, lovely lad do you know him pm me as opposed to discussing here
    Last edited by R0bertb00th; 26th March 2020 at 16:12.

  21. #3221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Indeed. But I would think that these clauses would be hard to enforce in court...
    Maybe, but you're never going to get on the tender list again.

  22. #3222
    Master mickylall's Avatar
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    Not sure what to make of that, looks like support yourself and if you're lucky you may get something in June at the earliest.
    No doubt that Sunak comes across very well and doesn't get flustered easily

  23. #3223
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickylall View Post
    Not sure what to make of that, looks like support yourself and if you're lucky you may get something in June at the earliest.
    No doubt that Sunak comes across very well and doesn't get flustered easily
    Thatís how I took it too mate better than what was available before but still very worrying for folks

  24. #3224
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
    Not to mention Liquidated Damages, for late completion.

    I am sure Force Majeure would come in to play.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  25. #3225
    Master mickylall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootneck View Post
    Thatís how I took it too mate better than what was available before but still very worrying for folks
    I know Iím being thick but what is a Ďtaxable grantí?
    Taxable on the £2500 ( if you achieve the maximum -20%) and itís not repayable?

  26. #3226
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickylall View Post
    I know Iím being thick but what is a Ďtaxable grantí?
    Taxable on the £2500 ( if you achieve the maximum -20%) and itís not repayable?
    What ever grant you get youíd have to declare on the next set of accounts as earnings and therefore taxable is the way ive understood but that you donít have to repay the grant just pay the tax on it.

  27. #3227
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    In fairness at least theyíre doing something for self employed itíll be a long couple of months for many but itís more promising than it was yesterday at least.

  28. #3228
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootneck View Post
    In fairness at least theyíre doing something for self employed itíll be a long couple of months for many but itís more promising than it was yesterday at least.
    Agreed but if he keeps the sites open Iíll be back at work Monday

  29. #3229
    By saying the self employed can still work (quite reasonably) it is inevitable that many will continue working if/while they still can.

  30. #3230
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    Last edited by thieuster; 27th March 2020 at 00:11.

  31. #3231
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post

    Yep I've been saying this for a while now on the Promising news thread as a lot of recent research is indicating the R0 figure (infectiousness) is much higher than expected but the IFR figure (Infection Fatality rate) is much lower than expected and may be between 0.05% and 0.14% or twice that of flu. So because of the infectiousness the small percentage of critical cases overwhelm the health services but soon everyone will be a infected and then immune. This is a theory and more research needed of course but a lot of research is coming to this conclusion. The only issue is the 8k deaths in Italy as if there was an IFR of 0.05% that would mean 16 million infections in Italy which seems a lot, plus 0.5% of Bergamo has already died from this so again that makes the stats somewhat troublesome

  32. #3232
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post

    And yet hospitals are overrun with serious cases. Is the problem not that this virus is particularly lethal, but rather that it is particularly infectious, and overwhelms the health system's capacity to deal with it?

  33. #3233
    Grand Master hogthrob's Avatar
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    Hand Washing

    The skin on my hands is starting to resemble that of a mummified Pharaoh. I am having to moisturize (E45) at least as often as I wash. Is anyone else suffering?

  34. #3234
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    Yes same here . Use e45 after every wash and after couple of days it will be fine . 👍


    Quote Originally Posted by hogthrob View Post
    The skin on my hands is starting to resemble that of a mummified Pharaoh. I am having to moisturize (E45) at least as often as I wash. Is anyone else suffering?

  35. #3235
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hogthrob View Post
    The skin on my hands is starting to resemble that of a mummified Pharaoh. I am having to moisturize (E45) at least as often as I wash. Is anyone else suffering?
    Yes, really badly. I’ve had to use a hydrocortisone cream (C45, I think).

  36. #3236
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hogthrob View Post
    And yet hospitals are overrun with serious cases. Is the problem not that this virus is particularly lethal, but rather that it is particularly infectious, and overwhelms the health system's capacity to deal with it?
    Not advocating any conspiracy theories here, but if you wanted to cause absolute chaos without wiping out half the world's population this does it.
    It's just democracy.

  37. #3237
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    well i got furloughed on weds, looking forward to some nice afternoons of listening to music and watching films and kicking back for a bit, i'm 50 and have always worked.



































    looks like the wife is also getting furloughed on monday. bugger!
    ktmog6uk
    marchingontogether!



  38. #3238
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbomolwi View Post
    Yes same here . Use e45 after every wash and after couple of days it will be fine . 👍
    Quote Originally Posted by hogthrob View Post
    The skin on my hands is starting to resemble that of a mummified Pharaoh. I am having to moisturize (E45) at least as often as I wash. Is anyone else suffering?
    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Yes, really badly. Iíve had to use a hydrocortisone cream (C45, I think).
    Try the Neutrogena winter formula hand cream. I get cracked skin on my fingers occasionally and a liberal helping of this left overnight works a treat. (I slept in gloves this week with a liberal helping of neutrogena a la Bernie Mac in oceans eleven as the skin had split on my knouckle from a cut drying out)

  39. #3239
    Master thieuster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hogthrob View Post
    And yet hospitals are overrun with serious cases. Is the problem not that this virus is particularly lethal, but rather that it is particularly infectious, and overwhelms the health system's capacity to deal with it?
    ... and the amount of people who're infected, suffer (need to go to the IC) is larger than the amount that is hit by a 'normal' flu.

    About Italy (there's something in the article as well): Bergamo Atalanta vs Valencia was played in a fully packed (40k) stadium just before the total outbreak of Covid-19. Some think that this mass-gathering has fueled the spread. (Newspapers here dare to mention the fact that Ajax Amsterdam was very lucky to be ousted from European football before the outbreak; one of its potential opponents was Atalanta; Valencia had kicked out Ajax from the CL).

    Yesterday, I had a conversation with a guy who's wife is an IC doctor. I asked him about his wife and he mentioned the fact that the hardest part is the mental part: Currently, 80% of their patients die. That's not what they're used to. Lowering to 50/50 would be a major step forward. 50% of the patients in the IC are not really that old: between 16 and 60 yrs. And not all have other sufferings that emphasise the Covid-19 symptoms.

  40. #3240
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    ... and the amount of people who're infected, suffer (need to go to the IC) is larger than the amount that is hit by a 'normal' flu.

    About Italy (there's something in the article as well): Bergamo Atalanta vs Valencia was played in a fully packed (40k) stadium just before the total outbreak of Covid-19. Some think that this mass-gathering has fueled the spread. (Newspapers here dare to mention the fact that Ajax Amsterdam was very lucky to be ousted from European football before the outbreak; one of its potential opponents was Atalanta; Valencia had kicked out Ajax from the CL).

    Yesterday, I had a conversation with a guy who's wife is an IC doctor. I asked him about his wife and he mentioned the fact that the hardest part is the mental part: Currently, 80% of their patients die. That's not what they're used to. Lowering to 50/50 would be a major step forward. 50% of the patients in the IC are not really that old: between 16 and 60 yrs. And not all have other sufferings that emphasise the Covid-19 symptoms.
    But then in the UK we were being told by Govt experts for quite some time that mass gatherings could continue since they weren't all that 'efficient' as vectors of propagation for the virus, it's difficult to know who's right, correct when even the 'evidence' is contradictory.

  41. #3241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    But then in the UK we were being told by Govt experts for quite some time that mass gatherings could continue since they weren't all that 'efficient' as vectors of propagation for the virus, it's difficult to know who's right, correct when even the 'evidence' is contradictory.
    Where is the evidence contradictory?
    Memento Mori

  42. #3242
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    Brief update and a thank you to anyone who clapped last night. I wasn't sure how I felt about it before it happened, as I can only go to work because of a wider group of people outside of the NHS and I still feel a bit fraudulent being the focus of a wider effort. Seeing my neighbours though brought a little tear to my eye - but my cat was unimpressed. Bit of a cynic that one.

    It's my first day off in what is probably about 2 weeks and I'm going to try and have a day without e-mails and WhatsApps. Virtually everyone is trained now; and we're in the "hurry up and wait' phase to use an army parlance.

    We're ahead of the curve in terms of readiness compared to other parts of the country - some of the stories coming out of London are truly hard to get your head around; we've been asked if we can supply some staff teams to support London as they look like they are about to be overwhelmed but I don't have the anaesthetists & intensivists or the nurses and ODPs to spare. We have a 35% sickness rate (self-isolation and actual positive cases) as it stands and that will probably creep up to 50% soon.

    We have enough PPE at the moment - unfortunately the new PPE (specifically FFP3 masks) is not what we trained and were fitted for; which has generated additional fear and confusion as it is seen as inferior, even though it's not. Newer recommendations (by some national bodies) are often at odds with Public Health England and have caused huge difficulties - delivering a clear consistent message has been my biggest headache, as rumours and media stories drive fear and panic which is very hard to manage.

    The staff are amazing; but they are terrified. My working relations with colleagues across directorates have become much closer and we have done some things in weeks that were considered undeliverable months ago. Some of the new norms are truly revolutionary, and I believe we will come out of that a more efficient health service. Patient and staff testing facilities are ramping up which is getting people back to work sooner than previously.

    I spent all day yesterday in full PPE and it's quite oppressive - I can manage about 3 hs before my discomfort becomes difficult to manage. Everything takes longer and the logistics of trying to get drugs and kit to someone directly caring for the patient takes a lot of staff and time. I'm not frightened anymore of the patients; they don't bite they are just normal people that got sick and the hardest thing is that they are alone apart from us when they are at their most vulnerable; no families can visit and my interactions with relatives is very different than is usual. It feels impersonal and I struggle with that.

    My neighbours and friends that know what I do have been lovely - I'm buried on a rota of rolling long days and nights for possibly months; but we'll get through it the best we can. My colleagues, despite going onto a rota that is punishing to say the least have just rolled up their sleeves and got on with it. I don't know how I'll ever repay them, a beer doesn't seem enough - but I guess this is ultimately why we do the job.

    Panic buyers though - they can get in the sea.
    Last edited by Megatron; 27th March 2020 at 09:37.

  43. #3243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Where is the evidence contradictory?
    Evidence wrong word, should've gone with policy I suppose...I'll explain, that big match in Spain is considered in some quarters to have fueled the fire considerably, whereas in Blighty wasn't the Govt telling people going to the footy was OK as such mass gatherings weren't efficient places for the virus to spread, until the clubs and venues themselves took the decision out of their hands, at least that's my recollection. Another example might be the WHO 'test, test, test' advice which the UK hasn't for various/ whatever reasons managed to implement even among the frontline medics and so as predicted Nhs staff numbers are dropping alarmingly, putting patients and colleagues at further risk as the workload and toll predictably rises.
    Just hard to discern the sense behind the policy sometimes.

    Thanks for the update Megatron, you won't hear it but we've clapped here in Spain every night for almost 2 weeks now. Keep up the magnificent work.
    Last edited by Passenger; 27th March 2020 at 09:36.

  44. #3244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Where is the evidence contradictory?
    tbh I think some of what the government is doing is led by public pressure and a need to show something's being done instead of actual science.

  45. #3245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    Evidence wrong word, should've gone with policy I suppose...I'll explain, that big match in Spain is considered in some quarters to have fueled the fire considerably, whereas in Blighty wasn't the Govt telling people going to the footy was OK as such mass gatherings weren't efficient places for the virus to spread, until the clubs and venues themselves took the decision out of their hands, at least that's my recollection. Another example might be the WHO 'test, test, test' advice which the UK hasn't for various/ whatever reasons managed to implement even among the frontline medics and so as predicted Nhs staff numbers are dropping alarmingly, putting patients and colleagues at further risk as the workload and toll predictably rises.
    Just hard to discern the sense behind the policy sometimes.
    My recollection is identical. In fact, I believe that I posted at the time because it was madness to keep the stadia open, as it was the best way to export/import the virus from town to town, with a relatively confined atmosphere, and 40K+ people sputtering while shouting from the top of their lungs.
    I believe this is the time that is referred to as Classic Dom's policy. Fortunately, sporting federations took a more cautious approach (as did some schools) and the government had no other choice but to concede and act as if they initiated the closure.
    From this point it is an abject failure and if the public didn't have the memory span of a gnat it would follow them... IF.

    I challenged the word evidence precisely because until further investigated, the Bergamo match suggests there could be a link. It's still tenuous for the moment, though
    Memento Mori

  46. #3246
    Journeyman
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    Nov 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megatron View Post
    Brief update and a thank you to anyone who clapped last night. I wasn't sure how I felt about it before it happened, as I can only go to work because of a wider group of people outside of the NHS and I still feel a bit fraudulent being the focus of a wider effort. Seeing my neighbours though brought a little tear to my eye - but my cat was unimpressed. Bit of a cynic that one.

    It's my first day off in what is probably about 2 weeks and I'm going to try and have a day without e-mails and WhatsApps. Virtually everyone is trained now; and we're in the "hurry up and wait' phase to use an army parlance.

    We're ahead of the curve in terms of readiness compared to other parts of the country - some of the stories coming out of London are truly hard to get your head around; we've been asked if we can supply some staff teams to support London as they look like they are about to be overwhelmed but I don't have the anaesthetists & intensivists or the nurses and ODPs to spare. We have a 35% sickness rate (self-isolation and actual positive cases) as it stands and that will probably creep up to 50% soon.

    We have enough PPE at the moment - unfortunately the new PPE (specifically FFP3 masks) is not what we trained and were fitted for; which has generated additional fear and confusion as it is seen as inferior, even though it's not. Newer recommendations (by some national bodies) are often at odds with Public Health England and have caused huge difficulties - delivering a clear consistent message has been my biggest headache, as rumours and media stories drive fear and panic which is very hard to manage.

    The staff are amazing; but they are terrified. My working relations with colleagues across directorates have become much closer and we have done some things in weeks that were considered undeliverable months ago. Some of the new norms are truly revolutionary, and I believe we will come out of that a more efficient health service. Patient and staff testing facilities are ramping up which is getting people back to work sooner than previously.

    I spent all day yesterday in full PPE and it's quite oppressive - I can manage about 3 hs before my discomfort becomes difficult to manage. Everything takes longer and the logistics of trying to get drugs and kit to someone directly caring for the patient takes a lot of staff and time. I'm not frightened anymore of the patients; they don't bite they are just normal people that got sick and the hardest thing is that they are alone apart from us when they are at their most vulnerable; no families can visit and my interactions with relatives is very different than is usual. It feels impersonal and I struggle with that.

    My neighbours and friends that know what I do have been lovely - I'm buried on a rota of rolling long days and nights for possibly months; but we'll get through it the best we can. My colleagues, despite going onto a rota that is punishing to say the least have just rolled up their sleeves and got on with it. I don't know how I'll ever repay them, a beer doesn't seem enough - but I guess this is ultimately why we do the job.

    Panic buyers though - they can get in the sea.
    Thanks for the update and the herculean effort made by you and your staff.

  47. #3247
    Master
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    Mar 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megatron View Post
    Brief update and a thank you to anyone who clapped last night.
    Hats off to you, sir.

  48. #3248
    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    Hats off to you, sir.
    X 2, x 3, x 4.....


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  49. #3249
    Went on my early morning solo one walk of the day .... blissful sunshine and you wouldnít know the world was in turmoil

    This scene made my blood boil ..... a long established local business - chocolatier/wedding cake specials/cafe/cookery school - why the hell do they have to board up their windows ?? And the paper this morning said a rise in burglaries at commercial properties - I think the Government could easily find room in all this emergency legislation to bring in some real punishment for the scum




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  50. #3250
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Sep 2012
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    Brussel land.
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    14,507
    Quote Originally Posted by dandanthewatchman View Post
    Went on my early morning solo one walk of the day .... blissful sunshine and you wouldnít know the world was in turmoil

    This scene made my blood boil ..... a long established local business - chocolatier/wedding cake specials/cafe/cookery school - why the hell do they have to board up their windows ?? And the paper this morning said a rise in burglaries at commercial properties - I think the Government could easily find room in all this emergency legislation to bring in some real punishment for the scum




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Perhaps they boarded up their windows because of the increase in burglaries at commercial properties? Just a guess.
    It's just democracy.

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