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Thread: What's the future for fossil fuels?

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by earlofsodbury View Post
    You misunderstand it. Lead/Acid dates to the 1850s, Li-ion went live in 1991 - i.e. the technology is in its infancy, think hybrid Lithium ultracapacitors as a pointer to one of many ways this technology will continue to improve. There is a great deal else that will see many of us in our graves before battery technology development ceases. All technologies have a finite life, and are replaced of course, and batteries are a limited concept, but they are in their infancy nonetheless. Of equal importance is the fact that there are unquestionably huge improvements to be made to charging infrastructure too, of course...
    Might be in its infancy but your examples illustrate the very slow progress being made.

    Most cars contain technology from 150+ years ago and Li-ion hasn't been bettered for most purposes for 25+ years. Think we'll go to our graves w/o seeing vast changes and no way will anything very different be ready before internal combustion engines are outlawed.

  2. #52
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    Holsterman, not sure what point you are discussing.

    Mine is fuel is not going to run out soon enough to worry and i believe that electric cars are not a good option.
    We would be better off running and maintaining our cars as long as possible.

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl.1 View Post
    Holsterman, not sure what point you are discussing.

    Mine is fuel is not going to run out soon enough to worry and i believe that electric cars are not a good option.
    We would be better off running and maintaining our cars as long as possible.
    It's not just the fossil fuels running out though is it? We need to drastically reduce CO2 emissions too.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    It's not just the fossil fuels running out though is it? We need to drastically reduce CO2 emissions too.
    Pollution and waste for me are the biggest issues that have a clear and direct affect on our world so, yes cutting needless emissions is important.
    I know people think there is little we can do but i believe that starting with well thought out lessons at school from an early age will help. Preferably with as little politicaly motivated intervention as possible!

  5. #55
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by earlofsodbury View Post
    .............

    You are missing the fact that the resource is not just buried energy, it is also the environment in which it is used which must bear the brunt of the pollution produced. That environment is already massively compromised, and becoming more so with every passing day.............................


    There are 1.4 billion people in China and 1.3 billion people in India. Most would probably want to own a car and refrigerator (among other things) just like you do. How do you suggest slowing down their usage of these resources which we've been happy to exploit.
    It's just democracy.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    There are 1.4 billion people in China and 1.3 billion people in India. Most would probably want to own a car and refrigerator (among other things) just like you do. How do you suggest slowing down their usage of these resources which we've been happy to exploit.
    Consumer ticking bombs 💣 and let’s not forget Africa too.

    Demand for energy in these regions will be huge as more and more people get to benefit from the goods and technology we now take for granted.

    Fossil fuels won’t be running out anytime soon nor our demand for power.

  7. #57
    Craftsman earlofsodbury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    There are 1.4 billion people in China and 1.3 billion people in India. Most would probably want to own a car and refrigerator (among other things) just like you do. How do you suggest slowing down their usage of these resources which we've been happy to exploit.
    Seriously? China? You mean the place the West offshored all of its manufacturing to - precipitating desperate measures to produce enough power from any old source? The place we now hypocritically condemn for its pollution levels? The only place in the World to at least try to limit its own population? The already very wealthy nation that's mopping-up all the fugly Rolexes everyone's always whining about? The country with the fastest rate of development of hybrid and electric vehicles in the World - cos they saw all this coming 20 years ago? The country that gave us the multi-record-breaking Nio EP9 electric car? The country that's turning Volvo into an electric car manufacturer? That China?

    Shall we do India? Own space program India? Owns Jaguar-Land-Rover India? The only nation in the World committed to planting nearly 1.5 *billion* native trees? Blah-blah...
    I mean, sure, it's a giant clusterf*ck of a place (I worked there for a while, it's an eye-opener...), but it's getting richer by the second, and with wealth will come first a spike and then a reduction in per-capita pollution (already substantially lower than the West BTW!) as they are able to afford to improve environmental standards. Trust me, they know they have problems - and they are working hard to resolve them, while we in the West have moronic glove-puppets like Johnson and Trump pretending that facts are negotiable and climate change doesn't exist...

    In both nations, wealth = improved life expectancy = declining populations = the ability to manage energy needs better - exactly as happened in the West.

    Sure, it's Big and Clever to scapegoat the laggers-behind, but the truth is we *suck* hard at this stuff - we are extremely change-resistant (this thread proves that all on its own!), and could do more, quicker if it wasn't for the mix of corruption and incompetence that we laughingly call "government".

  8. #58
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by earlofsodbury View Post
    Seriously? China? You mean the place the West offshored all of its manufacturing to - precipitating desperate measures to produce enough power from any old source? The place we now hypocritically condemn for its pollution levels? The only place in the World to at least try to limit its own population? The already very wealthy nation that's mopping-up all the fugly Rolexes everyone's always whining about? The country with the fastest rate of development of hybrid and electric vehicles in the World - cos they saw all this coming 20 years ago? The country that gave us the multi-record-breaking Nio EP9 electric car? The country that's turning Volvo into an electric car manufacturer? That China?

    Shall we do India? Own space program India? Owns Jaguar-Land-Rover India? The only nation in the World committed to planting nearly 1.5 *billion* native trees? Blah-blah...
    I mean, sure, it's a giant clusterf*ck of a place (I worked there for a while, it's an eye-opener...), but it's getting richer by the second, and with wealth will come first a spike and then a reduction in per-capita pollution (already substantially lower than the West BTW!) as they are able to afford to improve environmental standards. Trust me, they know they have problems - and they are working hard to resolve them, while we in the West have moronic glove-puppets like Johnson and Trump pretending that facts are negotiable and climate change doesn't exist...

    In both nations, wealth = improved life expectancy = declining populations = the ability to manage energy needs better - exactly as happened in the West.

    Sure, it's Big and Clever to scapegoat the laggers-behind, but the truth is we *suck* hard at this stuff - we are extremely change-resistant (this thread proves that all on its own!), and could do more, quicker if it wasn't for the mix of corruption and incompetence that we laughingly call "government".
    All of which doesn't answer my point at all.
    It's just democracy.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl.1 View Post
    Mine is fuel is not going to run out soon enough to worry and i believe that electric cars are not a good option.
    We would be better off running and maintaining our cars as long as possible.
    Whether or not you should worry depends on your age I suppose. Current estimates, that those predicted by the Oil and Gas industry, is that we have about 50 years of oil left. I hope to be around in 50 years, and hope my kids will be too.

    Maintaining cars, and trying to use less oil may sound like a good idea. But why focus our efforts on use less of something that's running out, rather than develop technologies that harvest energy from renewable sources.

    Neanderthals burned natural resources for heat and we're still doing the same, yet we have many alternatives available to us, thanks to people doing exactly the opposite of what you propose.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisparker View Post
    In 20 years or so many people won't own a private car.
    I'm with you on that one. It is so inifficient for transport as the car just sits idle for 95% of the time. Now with combination of Mobile App Tech; AI - predictive transport loads; Robotics / Machine Learning; Driverless vehicles - there will not be the need to own a car - just get a taxi style service - but bring it to an affordable alternative and applicable not just to regular journeys but trips when you use the cars currently - or just get out and walk / cycle and get some exercise...

    Martyn

  11. #61
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    Mx-5!

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl.1 View Post
    Holsterman, not sure what point you are discussing.

    Mine is fuel is not going to run out soon enough to worry and i believe that electric cars are not a good option.
    We would be better off running and maintaining our cars as long as possible.
    My posts are crystal-clear, I can't help you with your comprehension. You've shifted your stance on the inexhaustibility of fossil fuels, I see. Well done.

    Electric cars will be great if the electricity to charge them is generated using a combination of renewable energy (solar, wind etc.) and nuclear power stations.

    May I suggest you fit solar panels to your roof?

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisparker View Post
    Whether or not you should worry depends on your age I suppose. Current estimates, that those predicted by the Oil and Gas industry, is that we have about 50 years of oil left. I hope to be around in 50 years, and hope my kids will be too.

    Maintaining cars, and trying to use less oil may sound like a good idea. But why focus our efforts on use less of something that's running out, rather than develop technologies that harvest energy from renewable sources.

    Neanderthals burned natural resources for heat and we're still doing the same, yet we have many alternatives available to us, thanks to people doing exactly the opposite of what you propose.
    I'm pretty sure I've heard the "only 50 years of oil left" for at least the last 20 years.

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by nunya View Post
    I'm pretty sure I've heard the "only 50 years of oil left" for at least the last 20 years.
    First I've heard of it, but as long as you are "pretty sure", then it must be true.

    Humans have such a talent for self-deception wherever uncomfortable truths emerge.

  15. #65
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisparker View Post
    We'll see in a couple of decades. Charging stations don't need to be in a central location, out of town will do. One of the largest running costs of a taxi is the driver, the other is the fossil fuel. Take those out of the equation and costs start to tumble. And of course e-cars are more expensive today than a petrol car, at one time a quartz watch was much more expensive than an automatic counter part.

    Things I'm certain of:
    Driverless cars will be common place
    Electric cars will become cheaper than petrol cars
    Battery technology will continue to improve
    Bring it on.

    I'd love a driverless car pick me up anytime I want to go anywhere and not have to buy cars, insurance, road tax, fuel etc etc.
    Cheers,
    Neil.

    My Speedmaster website:

    http://www.freewebs.com/neil271052

  16. #66
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    Watched a programme a few weeks ago.

    1 years worldwide oil consumption takes 3 million years for the planet to regenerate!.


  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil.C View Post
    Bring it on.

    I'd love a driverless car pick me up anytime I want to go anywhere and not have to buy cars, insurance, road tax, fuel etc etc.
    But you are are going to have to pay for it in someway. As things are we are seeing a huge shift from owning things to renting services. Driverless cars will completely change car rentals, but I don't think it is going to spell the end of private ownership, just significantly reduce it. Driverless vehicles will also reduce or significantly change some common jobs. Long haul and taxi drivers may become obsolete. Or in the case of haulage the motor way portion of the journey may be driverless and the last few miles have a driver/supervisor.

  18. #68
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P9CLY View Post
    Watched a programme a few weeks ago.

    1 years worldwide oil consumption takes 3 million years for the planet to regenerate!.
    Errmmm....... any oil consumption would take the same amount of time, given thats the time taken to create oil. So you could say that the total oil consumption since 1900 would take 3 million years to regenerate.
    It's just democracy.

  19. #69
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    I work in Commercial vehicles, we're spending money on R&D in Diesel(inc. BioDiesel), Gasoline, LPG, Hydrogen, EV & Hybrid systems.

    It'll become more "horses for courses" rather than the blanket approach of today.

  20. #70
    Saw this article today about ammonia ICEs for ships.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.b...iness-51548361

    Apparently petrol vehicles can run on up to 10% ammonia or even be modified to run on up to 80% but more efficient would be a fuel cell: -

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...42435119303216

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulpsz008 View Post
    I work in Commercial vehicles, we're spending money on R&D in Diesel(inc. BioDiesel), Gasoline, LPG, Hydrogen, EV & Hybrid systems.

    It'll become more "horses for courses" rather than the blanket approach of today.
    I should caveat this with a significant change in Technology, politics or economic situation could change this.

    Currently no single technology is viable to do everything in the way we've been used to with Diesel, including the next generation technologies, however, if someone suddenly invented a sustainable 50x battery density improvement the full EV & energy storage could become much more practical for all applications.
    Some thing Solid state batteries are the answer here, but even if you take wildest claims they're not enough, so will need years of improvement.

  22. #72
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    Take a look at this, an interesting read

    https://about.bnef.com/new-energy-outlook/

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holsterman View Post
    First I've heard of it, but as long as you are "pretty sure", then it must be true.

    Humans have such a talent for self-deception wherever uncomfortable truths emerge.
    But is the 50 year thing true? Depends on what you read and how the "facts" are presented.

    https://www.fool.com/investing/gener...-oil-left.aspx

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holsterman View Post
    My posts are crystal-clear, I can't help you with your comprehension. You've shifted your stance on the inexhaustibility of fossil fuels, I see. Well done.

    Electric cars will be great if the electricity to charge them is generated using a combination of renewable energy (solar, wind etc.) and nuclear power stations.

    May I suggest you fit solar panels to your roof?

    I did not realise you were a troll that could not read properly. So i will not engage further as you are now on the ignore list (brilliant forum option). Good bye.

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