Question about the stock markets

[Bondurant]

While we are at it...every single fund I am in has taken a hit this week and last.

I'm not concerned long term.

[ryanb741]

Yeah I was told by a trader mate to sell last thurs but kept in the market as I'm retiring in 20 years and yeah things are down (and he says expect a further 35% decrease) but that just means stocks are massively cheaper and I have a 20 years of stock buying to go. If I was retiring tomorrow I'd be upset but I'm not so I'll just not look at my positions for 6 months or so and keep the investments going in as I'm getting more for my money and anyway the government cushioned 45% of the fall anyway in the tax top up

[Max...]

I wasn’t *too* worried until today’s 5% Dow drop. Been in the market a long time but it really is starting to look like a SHTF moment. Proper panic as contagious as the bloody virus is not far off I fear for the population. Already too late to sell maybe and just have to ride this one out in the years ahead and buy cheap in months (years?) to come to offset as much as possible?

[pacifichrono]

I was lucky and placed online orders last Thursday night to sell everything! Been on the sidelines for the past five trading sessions. Earlier that Thursday I had lunch with my best friend, who reminded me to dump everything at the first sign of a market sell-off.

I did.

He didn't.

[Passenger]

I was lucky and placed online orders last Thursday night to sell everything! Been on the sidelines for the past five trading sessions. Earlier that Thursday I had lunch with my best friend, who reminded me to dump everything at the first sign of a market sell-off.

I did.

He didn't.

Good move PC.

[demonloop]

the government cushioned 45% of the fall anyway in the tax top up

No, they just gave you your money back ;-)

I've cashed about 50% of my investments and will await the bottom.

[noTAGlove]

Suddenly the 1.7% I’m getting on my large cash ISA doesn’t seem so bad now.

[craig1912]

While we are at it...every single fund I am in has taken a hit this week and last.

I'm not concerned long term.

Sensible strategy. I am retired but not worried about short term blips.
Trying to time the market is a mugs game

[ernestrome]

Which is more contagious, panic or covid-19?

[Passenger]

well said.

[ryanb741]

I created this topic as I felt the booming markets despite the threat from the (at that time new) virus threat was irrational.

Markets now acting as if it is the end of the world which is again irrational.

Basically the markets are irrational and will continue to do so ad infinitum

[Passenger]

I read today that Bloomberg estimates 6 TRILLION has gone poooft since late January, there's irrational and then out right bonkers...amazing scenes, and numbers. What a mad world.

[Mr.D]

Saying that I reckon if you buy physical gold before the NYMEX opens at 1300 today its likely to go up a fair bit today due to panic buying.

[ryanb741]

Hopefully it goes back up to last week's levels by the time I retire in 20 years.....

[Passenger]

Saying that I reckon if you buy physical gold before the NYMEX opens at 1300 today its likely to go up a fair bit today due to panic buying.

rather enjoying watching the gold price, bought mine donkeys years ago.

[Saint-Just]

rather enjoying watching the gold price, bought mine donkeys years ago.

You still need to decide when to sell. Gold is a brilliant asset in times of crisis, and I am sure you can cash it in at any time and make a nice profit. Maximising this is more difficult though, and if you don't need the liquidity choosing where to reinvest (and when to sell again to buy gold when prices have fallen).

[Passenger]

You still need to decide when to sell. Gold is a brilliant asset in times of crisis, and I am sure you can cash it in at any time and make a nice profit. Maximising this is more difficult though, and if you don't need the liquidity choosing where to reinvest (and when to sell again to buy gold when prices have fallen).

Valid points but since I don't need to sell either to spend or re invest elsewhere I'm rather enjoy owning/holding it and watching how it performs, at least for now. A bit like an insurance policy that has real physical substance as well as notional value. Stocks are nice and have their place but you can't hold them and there's a certain pov which says if you can't hold it you don't really own it.

Though having said that we just bought some Santander stock a couple o days back, doubtless it's down a bit currently, no point looking at the mo. But believe it or not, it was the 'cheapest' way for us to secure free banking. Mind you given the charges they've been levying on us, both for the account and every time I spend my own sodding money, it's a license to steal, and I'm happy to have a piece, small, of that action as well as the free banking.

Maybe we'll pass the shiny onto the lad eventually.

[ernestrome]

Though having said that we just bought some Santander stock a couple o days back, doubtless it's down a bit currently, no point looking at the mo. But believe it or not, it was the 'cheapest' way for us to secure free banking. Mind you given the charges they've been levying on us, both for the account and every time I spend my own sodding money, it's a license to steal, and I'm happy to have a piece, small, of that action as well as the free banking.

Can you explain that a little, do shareholders not to have pay the account charges or are you offsetting the fees against the share performance?

[Montello]

I created this topic as I felt the booming markets despite the threat from the (at that time new) virus threat was irrational.

Markets now acting as if it is the end of the world which is again irrational.

Basically the markets are irrational and will continue to do so ad infinitum

I’m planning to buy shares next week, I’m calling the current selling an over reaction.

[Sweepinghand]

One or two guys I respect splurging buying up at low costs

These guys are the same who bought BP days after the big spill etc

I don’t think it’s hot bottom yet, my few pence a month will overall benefit as the whole thing calms and picks back up

[Passenger]

Can you explain that a little, do shareholders not to have pay the account charges or are you offsetting the fees against the share performance?

Sure, I/We didn't apparently meet their requirements for their free account service lacking a monthly salary or pension, a bit rigid of them since we put a bit more than the 600 euro monthly thresh hold amount through the account per month but they weren't inclined to accept money we send ourselves. But reviewing the T and C's we noticed the options of either investing 20k in one of their managed Funds OR holding a minimum of 1000 of their shares also meant we qualify for the free account. So we bought a 1001 shares.
Seems a reasonable investment as well iirc the dividend last year was just under 4 percent. Frankly with the increased fees, including 65 cents on every transaction, that is not cash point usage btw, it had gradually crept up to 400/500 euro p.a. territory, no joke for spending your own money and obviously no interest nowadays. Licence to steal.

Oddly we'd raised the fees/free banking question maybe 6/7 months previously, admittedly with a different staff member and possibly with not as much vigour and focus on our part but that guy definitely failed to mention the fund/shares route. Spanish practices or just incompetence/ignorance on his part who knows, or just maybe the requirement rules changed in the interim.

[ernestrome]

Very interesting, thanks.

[Kingstepper]

Sure, I/We didn't apparently meet their requirements for their free account service lacking a monthly salary or pension, a bit rigid of them since we put a bit more than the 600 euro monthly thresh hold amount through the account per month but they weren't inclined to accept money we send ourselves. But reviewing the T and C's we noticed the options of either investing 20k in one of their managed Funds OR holding a minimum of 1000 of their shares also meant we qualify for the free account. So we bought a 1001 shares.
Seems a reasonable investment as well iirc the dividend last year was just under 4 percent. Frankly with the increased fees, including 65 cents on every transaction, that is not cash point usage btw, it had gradually crept up to 400/500 euro p.a. territory, no joke for spending your own money and obviously no interest nowadays. Licence to steal.

Oddly we'd raised the fees/free banking question maybe 6/7 months previously, admittedly with a different staff member and possibly with not as much vigour and focus on our part but that guy definitely failed to mention the fund/shares route. Spanish practices or just incompetence/ignorance on his part who knows, or just maybe the requirement rules changed in the interim.

Is that a Spanish account? Suspect different in UK.

[jonny]

Yeah I was told by a trader mate to sell last thurs but kept in the market as I'm retiring in 20 years and yeah things are down (and he says expect a further 35% decrease) b

50% fall from top price? That would imply a major global recession.

Its not only stock markets that are falling in prices but commodity prices as well. (so all asset prices eventually)

Being a watch forum will be interesting to see what happens to watch prices if this Coronavirus/global economy slowdown continues.

[Incredible Sulk]

Is that a Spanish account? Suspect different in UK.

This is completely off topic. But.

It is different in the UK.

The problem with the Spanish banking is that there is effectively an oligopoly amongst the Spanish domestic banks. We faced the same problem as Passenger with our Spanish account - which we had with Banco Sabadell. We ended up with them by accident almost, as the Spanish Savings Bank sector imploded and got folded into bigger entities. We were with a small Caja De Ahorros that went belly up and was 'rescued' by Sabadell on the instructions of the Banco de España.

We were paying an arm and a leg in fees over the year to Sabadell. Account maintenance fees, transaction fees, annual charges for holding a couple of debit cards - again €500 - 600 a year for not a lot.

We recently swapped to Deutsche España, where we are paying about a fifth of that. Which is expensive by UK standards, but not a lot for Spain. I'm not about to find out if I can reduce that further by buying shares. There is nothing in this world that would persuade me to hold Deutsche stock......

[Devonian]

We’ve seen the stock market more than halve twice this century alone and both times recover. If memory serves me correct one of the times it went from around 6,900 (tech boom late 90,s) to 3,200 (just before the U.S. went into Iraq). Look at that analogy as if it was the house you own - your house was worth 250,000 now it’s worth 116,000 - quite frightening when you look at it from that angle. Difference is as you live in your house and aren’t looking at the value every single day you don’t think about it. When the market reacts like this everywhere you look at someone is talking about it.

Unless this virus changes the world forever, the markets will recover, it might take time but it does correct itself. Hopefully everyone has a mixed asset class in their holdings and aren’t facing the full brunt of this. A lot of investors hedge their funds with between 2% and 5% in gold for such times. If you’re investing monthly ‘pound cost averaging’ will help you over the next few months and if you have funds to invest, maybe split it into tranches in case we see more drops.

I realise things may get worse but as it stands today, the 2008 meltdown was far worse from memory. It seemed at one stage that the world was on the brink of a total financial meltdown. I’d imagine governments (especially the U.S.) are prepared for any measures such as quantitive easing etc to shore up the markets. There’s so much Emotional sentiment in the short term so positive moves will be announced to help the recovery.

[Passenger]

Is that a Spanish account? Suspect different in UK.

Spanish account, it is different here despite all the spiel of being in the same club, rules, standards. As IS commented.

We would have swapped to another bank but for the fact I am certain the transition would have been messy, painful even, what with the bills and debits set up from an account we have been running for about 20 years now and almost never is it free/ simple. Plus you ask anyone, friends etc, which is the best bank, or indeed any service provider, and it is always their one irrespective of the bigger picture.
CanNot guarantee this is the best solution but happy to try it.

[Mr.D]

rather enjoying watching the gold price, bought mine donkeys years ago.

Its dropped a lot today . My gold trading instincts at their usual best !

[Dr.f]

Some thoughts
https://www.usagold.com/cpmforum/

[Yeti]

I bought 20 garages in south east London before Christmas for £139k. Each garage is currently rented for £100 pcm. With legal fees, I’m getting a 16.5% yield subject to the garages staying fully let and no void periods. Also have them up for sale for £325k. Capital appreciation on the initial investment is superb, as is the yield.
I’ve not spent enough time over the years investigating stocks and shares, but the old adage of “bricks and mortar” works well for me...

[wileeeeeey]

I bought 20 garages in south east London before Christmas for £139k. Each garage is currently rented for £100 pcm. With legal fees, I’m getting a 16.5% yield subject to the garages staying fully let and no void periods. Also have them up for sale for £325k. Capital appreciation on the initial investment is superb, as is the yield.

If you've just bought them for £139k how did you decide on a £325k asking price?

[Yeti]

If you've just bought them for £139k how did you decide on a £325k asking price?

Bought privately and undervalued by previous owner.
Tap in garages into rightmove London and see if you can find any under £15k...most in London are £20k plus.. £139k equates to just under £7k per garage. Even at £325k, the site yields 7.5% and is a nice ready to go investment portfolio for someone looking for something a bit left field..
(I will add I’ve been into land and garages for over 10 years so appreciate everyone won’t be able to sniff out something like this without experience.)


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[noTAGlove]

With X trillion wiped off the stock market, property and property related stuff will, in due course, naturally follow with the correction.

[Passenger]

Not always the case regards property 'naturally' following stocks,

https://www.barrons.com/articles/as-...nse-1441104699

and the case for property in your portfolio,

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesr.../#d771c206f056

But then I'm by experience and inclination more of a bricks and mortar guy also, nice work and congrats on those garages Yeti.

[Montello]

Bought privately and undervalued by previous owner.

If you know any other mugs willing to drastically undersell their assets please let me know as that’s an easy win.

[Yeti]

If you know any other mugs willing to drastically undersell their assets please let me know as that’s an easy win.

I probably only find one deal every year that gives me a decent roi.
Of course it’s not easy, everyone’s looking for the quick buck, vast profits etc etc. Needle in a haystack definitely springs to mind.
In my personal experience i have to be proactive instead of reactive. I therefore actively try to make something out of nothing rather than respond to say a listing online, property auction etc.
In the case of the garages I bought recently, I knew of the site for a while and had noticed 4 garages had appeared to be dumped full of rubbish for years. I went on the land registry and found out who the owner was. I then proceeded to knock on his door at home and offered to buy the 4 garages full of rubbish as maybe he didn’t have the inclination to clear them or whatever. To my surprise he asked would I like to buy them all..I jumped at the chance.
Clear example of being pro active and doing something others may not necessarily do by knocking at the chaps home. Worst he could of said is no, they are not for sale.
That’s not to say you can’t see excellent returns via traditional means. I was very quick off the mark when purchasing a double garage advertised by a traditional estate agent again in the south east London area at £20k. (Estate agent told me he could have sold it 10 times that day but I was first.) Have had it rented for £250 pcm for the past 3 years which is a 15% yield. £3k a year on an outlay of £20k is fantastic imo.
I doubt my investment strategy would work for everyone but if anyone would like to know my Inspiration, I believe you would find the following chap very interesting...


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.f...8-00144feab7de


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[Boss13]

Interesting read. Have seen garages for sale. Always worried about how easy or difficult they may be to rent. How do you advertise?

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[Yeti]

Interesting read. Have seen garages for sale. Always worried about how easy or difficult they may be to rent. How do you advertise?

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Anywhere in London seem to rent within a day or two. I personally advertise for free on gumtree.

[wileeeeeey]

Bought privately and undervalued by previous owner.
Tap in garages into rightmove London and see if you can find any under £15k...most in London are £20k plus.. £139k equates to just under £7k per garage. Even at £325k, the site yields 7.5% and is a nice ready to go investment portfolio for someone looking for something a bit left field..
(I will add I’ve been into land and garages for over 10 years so appreciate everyone won’t be able to sniff out something like this without experience.)


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Interesting. I thought maybe you had planning permission for something but it seemed a bit quick. That FT article is interesting. Southgate is full of self made people.

[MartynJC (UK)]

No, they just gave you your money back ;-)

I've cashed about 50% of my investments and will await the bottom.

Thought you might enjoy this . . .




Ouch. Martyn

[vortgern]

Anywhere in London seem to rent within a day or two. I personally advertise for free on gumtree.

What do people typically do with them out of interest? Park a car in them or use them for storage?

[Yeti]

What do people typically do with them out of interest? Park a car in them or use them for storage?

You seem to get a whole host of different people. In no particular order;

Builders with building materials/tools
Local person with motorbike/car
Someone looking for cheap household storage
Small business owner
I’ve even seen someone put gym equipment in one and have a private gym

The list really does go on and on. I’ve even come across people living in them over the years. People really do become creative with a 16ft x 8ft space...

[Maris]

Thought you might enjoy this . . .




Ouch. Martyn

But how do you know when we’ve reached the bottom?

[wileeeeeey]

But how do you know when we’ve reached the bottom?

You don't. You find out after when it's gone back up.

[Maris]

You don't. You find out after when it's gone back up.

👍🏻 😁

[Devonian]

[QUOTE=Yeti;5338241]I bought 20 garages in south east London before Christmas for £139k. Each garage is currently rented for £100 pcm. With legal fees, I’m getting a 16.5% yield subject to the garages staying fully let and no void periods. Also have them up for sale for £325k. Capital appreciation on the initial investment is superb, as is the yield.
I’ve not spent enough time over the years investigating stocks and shares, but the old adage of “bricks and mortar” works well for me...[/

I know a few people who have garages. Even in sleepy North Devon they are around 10k to 12k with yields of between 60pm to 80pm, so your purchase price and rental return is fantastic. Potential profit even more so.

[pacifichrono]

Thought you might enjoy this . . .




Ouch. Martyn

Obviously, the problem is that at any one of those red line points, you can't see past that point, so the trend COULD go in any direction presumably. If you KNEW where the trend was actually going, buying and selling would be a no-brainer!

[MartynJC (UK)]

Obviously, the problem is that at any one of those red line points, you can't see past that point, so the trend COULD go in any direction presumably. If you KNEW where the trend was actually going, buying and selling would be a no-brainer!

. A bit of insider knowledge helps. . . but that is of course illegal!

[Maris]

. A bit of insider knowledge helps. . . but that is of course illegal!

let me know when we get to 14.

[Devonian]

Thought you might enjoy this . . .




Ouch. Martyn

That is a very relevant chart to investing in individual shares, particularly the AIM market. For every one or two people that make a killing, theres 50 to a 100 that have lost their shirt buying them. In most cases by the time you here about them, it’s too late - the cycle in that chart is underway and you buy too late, sell too late, buy again too late and guess what sell too late.

Anyone that’s ever had dealing’s in say GKP, SXX or TLOU (to name a few out of hundreds) will know what I mean. Baltimore Technology anyone?