closing tag is in template navbar
timefactors watches



TZ-UK Fundraiser
Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: Platinum V Gold question--why are Platinum watches more expensive ?

  1. #1
    Master TKH's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Southport
    Posts
    1,713

    Platinum V Gold question--why are Platinum watches more expensive ?

    So having got a little swept up in the idea of Platinum...love the weight 34% more than 18ct gold

    it got me looking at raw material prices and I was surprised to find how much cheaper Platinum was than Gold

    current prices...= 1.55 ratio.

    1kg of Gold 24ct = £ 40'253 bar / ingot 118mm x 53mm x 8mm

    1kg of Platinum 999 = £ 26'000 bar / ingot 79mm x 40mm x 15.3mm

    so I am struggling to understand why the massive hike in price...

    for jewellery and watch manufacture the Gold 24ct gold is mixed with other metals 75/25 to end up with 18ct whereas the Platinum is left pure (999) for manufacture so I can see it 'gold' goes further.

    But that still does not work out to an increase in raw material costs ?....or am i missing something ???? more likely being stupid and somebody with a bigger brain will explain.

    Patek 5496R £ 67'280
    Patek 5496P £ 84'640

    A 25% increase for Platinum over Gold....

    don't phone its just for fun.....
    Last edited by TKH; 9th February 2020 at 16:30.

  2. #2
    Master KavKav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Warwickshire.
    Posts
    6,600
    Blog Entries
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by TKH View Post
    So having got a little swept up in the idea of Platinum...love the weight 34% more than 18ct gold

    it got me looking at raw material prices and I was surprised to find how much cheaper Platinum was than Gold

    current prices...= 1.55 ratio.

    1kg of Gold 24ct = £ 40'253 bar / ingot 118mm x 53mm x 8mm

    1kg of Platinum 999 = £ 26'000 bar / ingot 79mm x 40mm x 15.3mm

    so I am struggling to understand why the massive hike in price...

    for jewellery and watch manufacture the Gold 24ct gold is mixed with other metals 75/25 to end up with 18ct whereas the Platinum is left pure (999) for manufacture so I can see it 'gold' goes further.

    But that still does not work out to an increase in raw material costs ?....or am i missing something ???? more likely being stupid and somebody with a bigger brain will explain.

    Patek 5496R £ 67'280
    Patek 5496P £ 84'640

    A 25% increase for Platinum over Gold....

    don't phone its just for fun.....
    There are additional manufacturing costs with Platinum as it is much more difficult to machine than gold, but that in NO way justifies the obscenely high mark-up that manufacturers and ADís charge for Platinum. Platinum is seen as rarer and more desirable than gold and therefore sellers are happy to load the price even more and are content to ignore the fact that platinum is much cheaper than gold.

  3. #3
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    1,934
    From what I understand platinum is much more difficult to machine giving it higher wastage and more labour intensive, of course I could be talking total bollocks.

  4. #4
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Norf Yorks
    Posts
    36,537
    Historically platinum was more expensive, clearly not so now - but who reduces the price of luxury goods under those circumstances?
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  5. #5
    Master KavKav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Warwickshire.
    Posts
    6,600
    Blog Entries
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    From what I understand platinum is much more difficult to machine giving it higher wastage and more labour intensive, of course I could be talking total bollocks.
    No, you are not (see my reply above to TKH). Regarding wastage, there is very little as it is standard practice that all precious metal machining waste/ manufacturing scrap is carefully collected and recycled, it is too costly not to!

  6. #6
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    147
    Mostly exclusivity but there are other costs to consider. Firstly if platinum is 34% heavier then you canít compare kg/kg for the same size (volume) of watch. You need to compare 1.34kg of platinum to 1.00kg of gold. Then there is the loss allowance in manufacture. I canít remember the numbers but if you search youíll see that the wastage is substantially higher for platinum (probably because scrap re-processing is difficult or even impossible with platinum???). Add in the 950/750 purity and tooling costs and youíll derive a cost to produce a platinum watch that is in fact a little bit higher than a gold one; not enough to justify the price gap of course but that was based in the historically higher price of platinum anyway.

  7. #7
    ^^^ Excellent point!

  8. #8
    Master TKH's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Southport
    Posts
    1,713
    Quote Originally Posted by Satori View Post
    Mostly exclusivity but there are other costs to consider. Firstly if platinum is 34% heavier then you can’t compare kg/kg for the same size (volume) of watch. You need to compare 1.34kg of platinum to 1.00kg of gold. Then there is the loss allowance in manufacture. I can’t remember the numbers but if you search you’ll see that the wastage is substantially higher for platinum (probably because scrap re-processing is difficult or even impossible with platinum???). Add in the 950/750 purity and tooling costs and you’ll derive a cost to produce a platinum watch that is in fact a little bit higher than a gold one; not enough to justify the price gap of course but that was based in the historically higher price of platinum anyway.
    some good points but even after you have factored in the dilution of the 24ct down to 18ct by adding 25% other metals etc Platinum by weight / volume still cheaper...

    but I get the points made re waste and harder to work with ...but I still find it crazy that Patek can charge £ 18'000 more for a case in Platinum over gold !...
    Last edited by TKH; 9th February 2020 at 17:54.

  9. #9
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    147
    Quote Originally Posted by TKH View Post
    some good points but even after you have factored in the dilution of the 24ct down to 18ct by adding 25% other metals etc Platinum by weight / volume still cheaper...
    No it isnít. Just using your own numbers: £26,000*950/750*1.34=£44131

    You need to stop confusing weight and volume. A platinum watch is not physically smaller than a gold one but a kg platinum ingot IS smaller than a gold one.

  10. #10
    Master TKH's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Southport
    Posts
    1,713
    Quote Originally Posted by Satori View Post
    No it isn’t. Just using your own numbers: £26,000*950/750*1.34=£44131

    You need to stop confusing weight and volume. A platinum watch is not physically smaller than a gold one but a kg platinum ingot IS smaller than a gold one.
    OK i understand where you are coming from so can you work out the mm3 Volume of each of these 1kg bars ? to see what conclusion you reach on % difference between the 2.


    https://www.royalmintbullion.com/Products/Bars/RMGCGKB
    https://www.royalmintbullion.com/Products/Bars/RMGP1KG
    Last edited by TKH; 9th February 2020 at 18:36.

  11. #11
    Apprentice theancientmariner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Newcastle, U.K.
    Posts
    25
    This is quite a good explanation;

    https://www.serendipitydiamonds.com/...pared-to-gold/

  12. #12
    Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Corona Borealis
    Posts
    6,897
    X x B = bullshit squared.

    Any watch over about £200 costs what it costs and you either like it enough and can afford it or you donít/canít. Value is very tenuous over that level.

  13. #13
    Grand Master andrewcregan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Highlands, Scotland
    Posts
    11,160
    Quote Originally Posted by theancientmariner View Post

    Thanks for the link. Answered all my questions

  14. #14
    Master TKH's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Southport
    Posts
    1,713
    Quote Originally Posted by theancientmariner View Post
    Thanks excellent and very well explained...

    At todays money that means that ....raw material cost as follows

    a Gold PP case weighing 100 grams is £ 3916
    and the Platinum equivalent is 134 grams = £ 3228

    So even if Platinum harder to work with charging a 25% premium over gold is well....extreme.
    Last edited by TKH; 9th February 2020 at 22:18.

  15. #15
    Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    SE
    Posts
    3,303
    Quote Originally Posted by TKH View Post
    Thanks excellent and very well explained...

    At todays money that means that ....raw material cost as follows

    a Gold PP case weighing 100 grams is £ 3916
    and the Platinum equivalent is 134 grams = £ 3228

    So even if Platinum harder to work with charging a 25% premium over gold is well....extreme.
    Dont forget the little diamond at 6 o clock on all Patek platinum pieces.. if you want to talk overpriced...

  16. #16
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    LŽtzebuerg
    Posts
    19,541
    Quote Originally Posted by TKH View Post
    Thanks excellent and very well explained...

    At todays money that means that ....raw material cost as follows

    a Gold PP case weighing 100 grams is £ 3916
    and the Platinum equivalent is 134 grams = £ 3228

    So even if Platinum harder to work with charging a 25% premium over gold is well....extreme.
    You can ask the same question about steel versus gold. The fact that there is a few hundred (max low thousands) pounds worth of gold in a watch will never justify the difference between steel and gold cases.

    The simple answer is: because they can.

  17. #17
    Grand Master andrewcregan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Highlands, Scotland
    Posts
    11,160
    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    The simple answer is: because they can.

    and they know that the people who really want it, will pay it.

  18. #18
    Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Wokingham
    Posts
    1,569
    In a nutshell, it's much more difficult to machine and finish a platinum case so there is extra cost in labour. However platinum has traditionally been a more expensive material gram for gram but the recently drop in prices are not reflected in most platinum watch prices.

  19. #19
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    LŽtzebuerg
    Posts
    19,541
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBanks View Post
    In a nutshell, it's much more difficult to machine and finish a platinum case so there is extra cost in labour. However platinum has traditionally been a more expensive material gram for gram but the recently drop in prices are not reflected in most platinum watch prices.
    Well, gold has traded at the same price or higher than platinum for well over ten years, wouldn't exactly call that recently.

  20. #20
    Master TKH's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Southport
    Posts
    1,713
    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Well, gold has traded at the same price or higher than platinum for well over ten years, wouldn't exactly call that recently.
    nope... gold v platinum was at parity in January 2015.... 1:1....gold has pulled away since and is now 1:1.60 which is a massive difference ...

  21. #21
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    LŽtzebuerg
    Posts
    19,541
    Quote Originally Posted by TKH View Post
    nope... gold v platinum was at parity in January 2015.... 1:1....gold has pulled away since and is now 1:1.60 which is a massive difference ...
    I said same or higher, that would sort of include parity, right?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Do Not Sell My Personal Information