Reply With QuoteJust skimmed the WhatsApp. Looks over for Chris. What an idiot.
We have quite a few members who on the other side of the world - Horology House has a known youtube channel and is part of one of the biggest Australian forums - so it is very likely some members here have brought some watches off him.
Worth reading the following and coming to your own conclusions:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Watches/com...ght_selling_a/
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=722353
Just skimmed the WhatsApp. Looks over for Chris. What an idiot.
WhatsApp file contents here.
https://pastebin.com/CMQKnnL5
Refunded by instalments. Clumsy Ponzi set up.
This is all quite concerning. We are always told to “buy the seller”...but it seems even the most famous and respected sellers can be fraudsters or con artists?
I hate to use those phrases, given I’ve been watching his videos basically since he started, but there’s no other way to describe what he’s done; with the fake watch, numerous lies about posting watches that never materialise, saying he can’t refund due to Australian bushfires (!), repaying buyers in instalments, only repaying buyers once other fake sales go through (ponzi scheme)...
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Just read the WhatsApp convo and IMHO, there is no coming back from that. Reads terribly for Chris.
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I see a lot of people have come out of the woodwork and some do not want to come forward yet because it is still holding their money!
He put this on Insta.
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Can't understand why he needed to do this. His channel subcribers were increasing and on the way to being a well known watch enthusiast. Guess the temptation was too much and thought he could get away with it. Sad really.
I read through all of the whatsapp chat and about half of the TRF thread so far. What a car crash!
There's no way he's getting out of this and, as has been mentioned already, looks like there are more buyers with similar stories waiting in the wings.
"I've potentially passed this onto a buyer"
Nothing potential about it. You sold a fake, got caught, didn't immediately refund and instead sent pictures of someone else's house burning as a reason for the delayed refund. Scumbag.
Does make you wonder how many poor sods have just put a super fake in their safe as an investment and won't even get around to trying to service the watch?
Correct me if I'm wrong... but it looks like he's deleted his Youtube channel ? I can't find it and its gone off my subscriptions.
Looks like it. Also he’s only gone and apologised in public after the truth was out on reddit. So I’m not buying the apology on insta. He would have clearly carried on doing what he was doing if it hadn’t gone public.Originally Posted by JohnnyE
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Someone pointed out that he was charging GST (General Sales Tax) but not registered to collect it and they were reporting to the tax office - he's likely nuking anything and everything at this point.
Jesus! What a train wreck. That WhatsAp log was a painful read.
Well....
When you have pricing bubbles, and it become all about the money rather than the watches, this is where it can end up.
D
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Massively disappointing. I really like his content and thought he would be above lying to buyers. Shame.
What a waste! He was a great reviewer with a promising career who put greed before honesty. In this hobby trust us everything. I dread to think how many collectors that have dealt with him are now sick to the stomach. I doubt this example would have been spotted before a service unless his friends Daytona was there for comparison!
Just been reading up on all this after seeing his half baked apology Insta post.
In a nutshell he seems to have sold a Daytona to a guy via an Aussie FB selling page for $29,000 Aussie dollars. Issued the guy with a fake tracking number. Claimed the item had been stolen and he was chasing it via the insurers. Except the insurers he claimed he was using apparently don’t cover the postage method he said he’d used. He then offers to replace the ‘lost’ watch with one from his own persona collection (another Daytona). After some discussion the buyer agrees, and he (Chris) sends him the watch. Except the buyers mate inspects the watch and exposes it as a fake. Buyer demands a refund, Chris now says he doesn’t have the money for a refund but will have it soon.
This saga went on for a couple of months before the guy got his money back, with Chris slow walking him and using various excuses including people he knows dying in the volcano eruption and his parents house burning down in the Aussie bushfires. It has subsequently come to light that he’s been charging a 10% goods tax which he isn’t registered for, which amounts to tax fraud. And also, somebody on Reddit reverse google imaged the pic he sent the buyer of his parents house on fire, and it turned out to be a generic news pic that he’d downloaded. As mentioned above there are now others coming out of the woodwork claiming similar experiences in their dealings with him. His YouTube channel has now vanished, and he’s locked down his social media to comments.
Shocking really. I’ve always quite enjoyed his vids (although he himself is a bit of a dullard).
Last edited by davidj54; 1st February 2020 at 23:11.
Someone has reposted his “How to spot a fake Rolex” video. You couldn’t make it up!
https://youtu.be/28-aZJJNMkE
Last edited by Lammylee; 1st February 2020 at 23:19.
Very interesting read on the Rolex Forum.
Read 20 pages of it up till tea time.
It’s now up to 25 pages!
Also watched his review on fake Rolex submariner and thought it was very well executed.
Guess some people think he should be now.
I think this description sums him up.
This guys turning out to be the Lance Armstrong of horology.[/QUOTE]
Last edited by Lammylee; 2nd February 2020 at 13:26.
Thanks for the summary. Saves me ready the whole sorry saga.
Awful. Makes me glad I have only purchased from ADs in the main. I am even starting to question ADs. What if an unscrupulous employee goes out back and swaps for a super fake!
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Wow. Thanks for the summary. I've watched his videos in the past and thought the macros were pretty great bit the practices described are just unbelievable, such irony with the fake video also.
Glad the buyer gor out of it in tact but this is surely the end for this Chris chap. The internet never gets deleted I guess!
Wow, only at post 438 on TRF but having read the WhatsApp transcript, truly shocked by the scammer.
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By looking around it seems that he wasn't working alone. There were at least three in the mix.
Why isn't the law involved in all this?
Sounds like he’s in “stay out of jail” mode now.
Once is an error, being broke and caught with your pants down isn’t a crime, lying to try to save your rep while you try to correct the “mistake” is theoretically understandable but multiple fakes (potentially) from someone with videos about spotting rolex fakes, tax fraud etc. is a pattern of criminal behavior. That’s when you end up in the clink.
A very well known vintage Rolex “expert” and dealer had some questionable behavior that was ignored by those in the know for some time until he finally imploded and ended up in jail for many bad deals. Then what does one discover when they looked at his prison profile? He had neonazi tattoos. You never really know who you’re dealing with out there and you ALWAYS need to remain vigilant. And people probably should not be afraid to post about their bad deals, unless they really seem like genuine mistakes that were resolved quickly. That’s actually a positive, unless that’s a pattern.
[QUOTE=Lammylee;5314780]Someone has reposted his “How to spot a fake Rolex” video. You couldn’t make it up!
https://youtu.be/28-aZJJNMkE[/QUOTE
Wow. Talk about ironic!
St*ve M*lholl*nd?
Bought a watch from him many moons ago, a 16753. When serviced it turned out the dial feet were missing but other than that it was a great watch :) Things can go south for anyone, question is how one deals with it...
*es.
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I've been following this on the Rolex Forum and while initially unbelievable, you can see how it happened. This is essentially a volatile commodity market. This guy had built up a high profile internet presence, based largely on the fact that he had a good AD connection where he could source desirable pieces to sell at a significant margin in a hyped and rapidly rising market. All's going great and he is a hero with a huge online following. Then the AD source is abruptly cut off. The online following and 'standing' is addictive so he tries to plough on. The stuff he's trading is difficult to source and expensive, his margin is tight and while he's got a small profit it's not enough to purchase a replacement, as prices are rocketing. Very quickly he's losing significant money but stopping is hard for an 'addict'. It would mean the end of Horology House. His 'trading' rapidly becomes a Ponzi scheme and he tries to fend his customer off for a few months before sending him a fake to get the pressure off.
What surprised me is that he didn't get someone else to ship the fake to the customer, so that his prints and DNA wouldn't be anywhere near it, then, if/when it was caught on, accuse the buyer of switching it. He had built up a public reputation and his customer was relatively anonymous. This could have played out very differently, as it would have been one person's word against another.
The number of scammed collectors being reported is growing by the hour, with numbers exceeding $100K AD.
Excuses given for none/late return of money have included a burning house, people dying in a volcano and his wife having a miscarriage. Despicable.
He has now apparently blamed a gambling addiction which may be the first honest thing he has said....or not?
There is now a dedicated Instagram page set up.
https://instagram.com/horologyhousei...=13du1f72for6f
He almost sounds like the Nick Leeson of the watch world - it just all got out of hand and he made one too many big bets to try and fix things.
Sadly his big bet was a replica watch sold as the real deal. Without that replica watch this story would never have come out in the way it has, I think
He would have been better off taking the flak for not refunding the buyer than shipping a fake. Which makes me think this really was him at his lowest point with no “outs”.
There’s also no evidence (yet) that he’s sold a replica before that Daytona?
The main things beyond that are:
- he seems to sell watches he doesn’t have
- he stalls the buyer while he sources watches with lies about postal delays, family emergencies, natural disasters
- he stalls the refund process with all sorts of weird lies, similar to above
- he repays buyers in instalments (implies cash flow issues?)
- there’s no case where a buyer wasn’t refunded? That we know of. So if he’s waiting on selling the next round of watches to repay the previous round, that’s the ponzi element
- he’s been charging tax but isn’t tax registered
- some chats have been leaked where he says he needs cash for an upcoming court case. This is before this PR disaster
- someone says he’s got a gambling addiction (that’s likely hearsay or someone looking to excuse his behaviour. Perhaps he makes an emotional comeback? Says he has an addiction that he’s getting help for and all is forgiven in time)
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There are several claims (at least two when I read it all 2 days ago) by buyers on that TRF thread of not being refunded.
Isn't there a guy who paid for a platinum Rolex of some sort who's still waiting for his money?
Just another scamming wide boy who got in too deep and couldn’t resist the lure of easy $$. Hopefully he’ll end up in jail
I’ve read through the whole thing and my take is that he never originally set out to defraud anybody. Setting up HH and going to the effort he has to grow it is just too elaborate. I think he started off genuine and got himself into a mess - the suggestion is he has a gambling problem.
Away from HH he is a watch guy and an admin on an Aussie watch trading platform. At one point he was able to get, via good access to an AD, Rolex watches which he then sold on for high margins. They were legit pieces and he built a rep as a trustworthy seller who could source desirable items. Probably he was also gambling heavily concurrently in his personal life, running up big debts.
He then had a fall out with the AD and lost his supply chain. He’s tried to keep up with the watch profiteering to cover his gambling addiction/debts, without the necessary access to pieces, and it’s all got out of hand resulting in him using his good rep to take money off of unsuspecting forum members for watches he can’t source, and then fall further and further into a web of lies and stalling tactics re where people’s watches/money are, inadvertently creating his own watch-Ponzi scheme.
Some of the lies that he’s allegedly told are borderline sociaopathic, and clearly the act of a desperate man. He looked ill in his last couple of vids before this kicked off. Spinning so many plates trying to keep off all these people chasing you for their money - when you have a job, supposed big gambling debts, a family, that’s gonna take its toll. He’s lied and cheated, dug himself into a pretty big hole that’ll at least cost him his reputation in the watch world, but potentially a lot more.
Knowing what those sell for I sincerely hope not.
I just don’t get it. He could’ve made good money in a legit way selling straps or monetising his YouTube content or as watch journalist.
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I agree with this 100%. If the original intent had been to pass off a fake he should have shipped it promptly on receipt of the funds, before he had already raised red flags about his integrity, on account of the delays, excuses etc. If he had done that it may not have come to light for a while and then it would have been very difficult for the buyer to prove it was the watch he had purchased.
This appears to be the actions of a man cornered. Whatever his problem was does not excuse criminality, fraud and the despicable excuses he put forward.
I got scammed once by a German seller of a Sinn and it followed a similar pattern of excuses and lies. In the end I gave up but it was only £700, not £20k+.
I know, it's seriously stupid. I used to work with someone who is a similar watch blogger in real life and while I've never questioned him on money he seems happy with how he is right now. Straps, followers, paid content, trips to see new watches etc. He just wanted to make his hobby his career. Of course we would all like to be millionaires but I couldn't imagine him doing something like this to try and get there. He isn't that type of person.
I just tried to go back to TRF to find the platinum story but it's such a massive thread it's too hard.
I know of a few high flyers from my neighborhood with incomes exceeding $500k, one much higher, who still didn’t have enough for their lifestyle. That lead to fraud, criminal acts, etc. and a spectacular fall. Jail, loss of family, assets, etc. The worst part was it was 1000% avoidable with a little common sense and self control. They could all still be high flying right now.
I’m happy to quietly live better than most on the down low and prepare to retire early to the beach, sneaking away in the night, and stopping at the McLaren dealer on my way out of town.
If he’s defrauded multiple people in excess of $100k, he’s going to be toast. Perhaps he was bright enough to incorporate his venture and can try to hide behind bankruptcy laws, insurance claims, etc. to stay out of jail. My guess is that it was amateur hour though.
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Indeed - I think part of the problem for some people is that they always want to keep up with the *next* income bracket.
So you have openly respectful individuals who are always looking over their shoulders for either their victims, the police or often other crooks.
Let's face it - once your character has gone - what do you have left.
A career in politics seems too obvious.... :-)
From TRF. Awful.
Jesus what a shocker! I've been subbed to his channel for the past few months and was hugely impressed with his content. Seemed extremely professional and came across as a sincere guy, just goes to show you really can't trust anybody these days.
Ironic that he'd done an in depth video about how good Rolex fakes had become and how to recognise a fake from a genuine.... Then he sells a fake AS an original.
The WhatsApp conversation was indeed a train wreck, really discusting.
Key thing to learn here is that HH was very well known and respected as a content creator however he had absolutely zero standing or feedback/reputation as a seller/trader. He used his standing as a content creator to give people like us the confidence to deal. This makes him a con man from the start.
That hurts to look at. I can’t imagine being 150k in the hole and now he’s got no fame / rep to recover. That’s before the tax fraud allegations, on which he will owe whatever amount. I think he is going to end up bankrupt.From TRF. Awful.
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His total intake was $257,500! And that's only so far....
Best Regards - Peter
I'd hate to be with you when you're on your own.
This is genuinely sad to look at. I've been following his channel for a while too, I thought he's one of the best guys on YT, extremely good photography/videography and no BS commentaries. Who'd have thought:( Looks like he's been in a pretty deep hole for a while now.
Really disappointing
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