Monday Myth - Watch Winders

[John Vargas]

http://watchmakingblog.com:80/2008/0...watch-winders/

Monday Myth - Watch Winders

Posted: 19 May 2008 10:28 PM CDT

In response to a question I received from Thomas Sharples, I’m going to take the time to talk about watch winders. If you are familiar with automatic wristwatches you know that if you don’t wear them for a couple of days they come to a stop. This isn’t a big deal if your watch only tells the time, like my vintage Benrus. Since most of my watches are manual wound watches, I’m used to winding and setting my watch in the morning. I keep a radio-controlled quartz clock with my watches exactly for this reason. If your automatic has a date, or other complications, it can be more of an ordeal to set your watch after it has stopped.

If for example you had a 1960s Rolex (and a lot of you do because I work on them all the time) you probably have a Datejust and it has no quickset. If you don’t wear it for 10 days it can take you a little while to set the date and time and get it going. Imagine you have a perpetual calendar (I have no choice but to imagine because I could never afford one), you have to be very careful when you set the date so as not to disturb the month and year.

A watch winder is a device which will keep your watch wound and running so that you can just pick it up and put in on in the morning without worrying about it. If you have multiple watches, this can be a great tool. Watch winders range from the most simple rotary device to very complex “tourbillon” style winders which not only wind your watch but rotate it through multiple positions to average out variations in rate.

Mr. Sharples question is wether or not leaving a watch on a winder puts unnecessary wear on the watch. Well here is my two part answer:

1. Automatic watches are designed to be used. This means that the weight is designed to be in near constant motion. I say near constant because, unless your as active as my three year old “Bug”, your arms don’t move all day long.

2. When the oscillating weight is in motion it creates more wear than when it is not. This is why I recommend a winder that has some kind of a program built in. There are lots of things to consider in this program. Here are the two most important:

Direction of Wind: Some watches wind in both directions, some in only one direction. If your winder only turns one way it’s possible that it would never wind your watch. If your winder only rotates both ways and you have a uni-directional wound watch when it is turning the other way it is creating unnecessary wear on the ratcheting mechanism. — So you should choose a program that performs well for your watch.

Duration of Wind: Most winders will let you choose to have your watch wind for a specific number of rotations or a specific length of time. Some of them will also let you choose a rest period between winds. For example you could choose to have your watch wind for 5 minutes and rest for an hour or wind for half an hour and rest for a day. — I recommend a program that fully winds your watch in one cycle just once a day.

So, how do you know exactly what treatment your watch needs? Whether you use an Orbita winder or not (probably the most recognized and respected winder) they have some great information on their web page including a database of watch models and the settings you should use for best performance with your watch. You can check it out at http://www.orbita.net. You will also find lots of valuable information about automatic watches and watch winders at their site.

Thoughts opinions?

I have watch winders, but they necessarily do not make it any easier for me….I have watches I have never worn, and they have been on the winder for years…they are off…day-date, and time wise…

[jk103]

John

I use a winder and keep my Omega SMP on it. I think it's a great tool to use because I can pick up my watch anytime I want and wear it and it's ready to go. There is alot of talk about how it hurts a watch to use one, but like the OP said what's the difference if your wear it 24/7 or keep it on a winder. Really nothing, same wear and tear, probably less. It's nice to have a grab and go, fully wound, ready to go, than not. I currently use a Primadyne winder which I think is a step above an Orbita.

[deano42]

Hi

People have mentioned that there is the over wind issue with winders, I read somewhere that a good set up was the following:

1. Watch winder with programs
- Work out the rotations per minute
- Work out the rotations for duration of cycle (i.e. 5 mins one way and 5 mins the other and 20 mins rest). This gives the total rotations per cycle.

2. From the Orbita site determine the rotations for your movement

3. Put the winder into a one of those mains switch timers that you can program the on/off time.

4. With the info you have gained from working out the rotations per cycle and the amount of rotations for the movement to be wound you can now deduce how long to the winder should be on/off over a 24 hour period.

Using this you can ensure that you would never over wind a watch on the winder.

I hope all that made sense..?? :?

Thanks
deano

[Scottishtrunkmonkey]

Can you overwind a watch?

[magirus]

Given the (small) amount of time it takes to wind and set a watch which has wound down I really can't see the point of using a winder. It makes more sense to wear a watch reasonably regularly than to have it running constantly, IMHO. :)

[GIB984]

I have recently got a Rapport duo ebony winer - lovely looking object - but to be absolutely honest I ran it religiously for the first couple of weeks but it hasn't been used recently - DOH!

I have also found, even from a full wind, that some watches are harder to keep going with the winder than others, notably my omega PO.

This thread has reminded me to turn the winder back on again! :D

[Dave E]

Used to use them a lot, but kind of drifted away from it. I only have 2 spaces now, mainly so that I don't have to mess around with resetting the date on my Seamaster GMT when I wear it.

[VinceR]

I've been using an MTE 4-head watch winder for several years. Never had any problem with it or the watches that reside on it .. mind you it is turned off every night .. bought it & use it as I'm not a fan of constantly unscrewing & then screwing the crown after they run down ..

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Stopped using one ages ago - mind you collection is now heading towards one so it's not worth having one anyway :P

[Scottishtrunkmonkey]

Stopped using one ages ago - mind you collection is now heading towards one so it's not worth having one anyway :P

That will be a temporary state of affairs mate :wink: :lol:

[Toshi]

Given the (small) amount of time it takes to wind and set a watch which has wound down I really can't see the point of using a winder

I agree. The breakfast time setting and winding of the days watch is all part of my morning routine now. I actually miss it if I wear quartz for the day. :wink:

I have thought about getting a winder on several occasions (mainly for a couple of older autos that don't have a quick set date), but the decent winders are not cheap, and I've always decided to spend the money on another watch :D

Rich

[DimGR]

good winders are awfully expensive :x :x :x :x :x :x

[NikosF]

When I started with this hobby about 8 years ago - I remember thinking that a watch winder would be almost critical for automatic watches. I researched them intently, and was initially put off by the high prices so never got one. I must say - I haven't missed having a watch winder. I have about 10 watches I wear 'regularly' - at least three of those are manual wind, which means I would need a 7 headed winder, or multiple winders whirring away. I usually wear one watch for a few days (or even a few weeks) then change to another one. I quite enjoy the few minutes of winding the 'new' watch, setting the time and date, and getting re-aquainted with the watch. I think I would miss it if I just picked it up and it was going. Irrational - but then so is this hobby.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Stopped using one ages ago - mind you collection is now heading towards one so it's not worth having one anyway :P

That will be a temporary state of affairs mate :wink: :lol:

I know..... 8)

[jd]

Generally I'm in the what's-wrong-with-using-your-fingers camp, but some of them are fiddly and I've been thinking about getting a winder for one or perhaps two to sit on. I've got five autos at the moment. Winding a couple of them is ok, winding four less so, especially the tutima and chronomat.

Is it really necessary to spend large sums?

[doug darter]

I've never owned one. I'm firmly in the camp of those that likes winding and setting :D

[Neil.C]

I've never owned one. I'm firmly in the camp of those that likes winding and setting :D

Ditto.

Waste of money IMO.

If you don't like winding and setting, get a quartz. :P

[magirus]

[quote=Neil.C]

I've never owned one. I'm firmly in the camp of those that likes winding and setting :D

Ditto.

Waste of money IMO.

If you don't like winding and setting, get a quartz. :P[/quote:33ki3nis]

Men after my own heart! :)

[lysanderxiii]

Can you overwind a watch?

I assume he means "winding the watch more often that necessary."

[NJH]

Which is worse then, the wear and tear of a winder or the chance of cross threading or something when winding a watch with a screw down crown. I agree about winding. I was convinced I would need to get a winder but TBH it seems like less time and effort to put 20 turns or so on each watch each night (assuming its one I haven't been wearing all day), then to load each watch into a winder or have to think about some sort of winder program / rotation system.

Surprisingly I now feel that I am not all that bothered about automatics either. I could quite happily live with manual only.

[abraxas]

.
I would never buy a watch from someone who uses auto-winders.

john

[Effortless]

When I started with this hobby about 8 years ago - I remember thinking that a watch winder would be almost critical for automatic watches. I researched them intently, and was initially put off by the high prices so never got one. I must say - I haven't missed having a watch winder. I have about 10 watches I wear 'regularly' - at least three of those are manual wind, which means I would need a 7 headed winder, or multiple winders whirring away. I usually wear one watch for a few days (or even a few weeks) then change to another one. I quite enjoy the few minutes of winding the 'new' watch, setting the time and date, and getting re-aquainted with the watch. I think I would miss it if I just picked it up and it was going. Irrational - but then so is this hobby.

My thoughts entirely!!

Does seem a bit anal, but aren't we all on here??!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Denizen]

I have watches I have never worn, and they have been on the winder for years…they are off…day-date, and time wise…

i have 2 two-watch winders...stopped using them a couple of years ago. there are no automatics in my collection that i wear on a regular enough basis to warrant using a winder.

don't see much point in leaving a watch on a winder if it never or hardly gets worn. by the time you get around to wearing it, you'll have to adjust the time again anyway.

[ke6507]

Though not a fan of winders, I have a few watches that I put on a winder for a week or so I can quickly swap them out. Also nice to see how well they are regulated over a week. In general, a winder will put more wear on the watch. The intervals between cleaning and oiling gets reduced. The same holds true for manual wind watches that are wound every day even when not in use. When not in use I try to give my watches a rest.

DaveB

[abraxas]

Though not a fan of winders, I have a few watches that I put on a winder for a week or so I can quickly swap them out. Also nice to see how well they are regulated over a week. In general, a winder will put more wear on the watch. The intervals between cleaning and oiling gets reduced. The same holds true for manual wind watches that are wound every day even when not in use. When not in use I try to give my watches a rest.

DaveB

In general, a movement behaves different on an auto-winder than it does on the wrist. Try it ...

Though not a fan of winders, I have a few watches that I put on a winder for a week or so I can quickly swap them out. Also nice to see how well they are regulated over a week. In general, a winder will put more wear on the watch. The intervals between cleaning and oiling gets reduced. The same holds true for manual wind watches that are wound every day even when not in use. When not in use I try to give my watches a rest.

DaveB

The part that wears out the most (on a worn watch) is the auto-winder. So by using mechanical winders one is cutting down the life of the weakest element.

john

[lysanderxiii]

They (winders) are very useful if you like to work on your watches, or do it for profit.

Beyond that, I do not see them as a necessity.

As to:

I would never buy a watch from someone who uses auto-winders.

Would you buy from a person that only had one watch (the one for sale) and was now getting himself a new one?

[magirus]

They (winders) are very useful if you like to work on your watches, or do it for profit.

Beyond that, I do not see them as a necessity.

As to:

I would never buy a watch from someone who uses auto-winders.

Would you buy from a person that only had one watch (the one for sale) and was now getting himself a new one?

That's a valid question.

[ke6507]

In general, a movement behaves different on an auto-winder than it does on the wrist. Try it ...


The part that wears out the most (on a worn watch) is the auto-winder. So by using mechanical winders one is cutting down the life of the weakest element.

john

Hi John,

I agree that that a watch behaves differently when worn. On a few watches I have adjusted them for my wear pattern. However, if I notice that it is loosing a couple of minutes a day on the winder, I'll demagnetize it then throw it on my timing machine to check it out. FYI - I recently regulated two identical watches to the same positional accuracy and put them on a watch winder. One lost 4 seconds a day more then the other. Manually winding them and placing them on my bench, they were within 1 second a day. Still haven't figured that one out.

As for the wear, yes - auto winder will wear out but the entire watch is working all the time and all elements are affected. When not constantly kept running on a watch winder the service intervals between cleaning and repair are extended. All you need is for someone to over oil a nice vintage watch, causing the oil in the jewels to get wicked out and then operate it constantly on a watch winder.

DaveB

[abraxas]

..............

As to:

I would never buy a watch from someone who uses auto-winders.

Would you buy from a person that only had one watch (the one for sale) and was now getting himself a new one?

I don't get the question ... will the new one be the exact model of the one being sold? And how does the question fit the discussion? Are you trying to compare a well used watch with one on a winder?

john

[magirus]

..............

As to:

I would never buy a watch from someone who uses auto-winders.

Would you buy from a person that only had one watch (the one for sale) and was now getting himself a new one?

I don't get the question ... will the new one be the exact model of the one being sold? And how does the question fit the discussion? Are you trying to compare a well used watch with one on a winder?

john

I took it he meant to compare two constantly wound watches, wound over a long period of time, one on the wrist the other on a winder. You said you wouldn't by the one from the winder, but asked if you would buy the wrist wound one.I think? :?

[lysanderxiii]

I took it he meant to compare two constantly wound watches, wound over a long period of time, one on the wrist the other on a winder. You said you wouldn't by the one from the winder, but asked if you would buy the wrist wound one.I think? :?

Yes

A winder will keep a watch running forever, theoretically speaking.

A worn watch (automatic or manual) will be constantly running, if it is the only one a person uses.

What is the difference? You stated you wouldn't buy a watch from someone with a winder (presumably because it was being wound all the time.) Would you buy one that has been worn all the time?

[abraxas]

...............

What is the difference? You stated you wouldn't buy a watch from someone with a winder (presumably because it was being wound all the time.) Would you buy one that has been worn all the time?

A worn watch will show signs of wear and allow valid value judgement, whereas a watch run on a treadmill will look new-ish but have a knackered movement. I am not trying to tell anyone what to do but as are discussing micro-engineering I thought I'd micro-pick. I have immense respect for engines of all types and I get all bothered when people don't treat them properly.

I generally prefer new watches anyway or as we say here, I buy the seller.

john

[davidsm]

Hi John,
thank you for an informative and for me, timely post. As I have posted previously, I don't find the need to cope with more than 4 watches at a time but of those 2 are automatic, 1 quartz and 1 is ecodrive quartz. I find it a nuisance to reset the day and date function although I could live with setting the time every other day. Having recently returned from a trip to the States (hence a late response to your post) I took the opportunity of buying an Acetimer winder on eBay whilst there, mainly because the price in dollars was good and delivery from California to upstate New York by Fedex was $15 instead of a silly $55 to UK! It has three programmes but the relevant one is: clockwise for 120 seconds - anticlockwise for 120 seconds - pause for 3358 seconds = 650 turns per day.
I attach a couple of photos. The watches are:
1. CWC Divers Date Auto on a leather open ended strap fitted with a deployment clasp which weighs 110 gm (ETA 2824-2)
2. Citizen Military Automatic on a solid link Breitling pattern bracelet, total weight 135gm (Miyota 8200)
3. Hamilton khaki field quartz on a black and satin braceley
4. Citizen ecodrive rectangular dial dress watch (black tie occasions)
So far the winder seems to cope admirably with the weight. I do realise that the Miyota winds only one way as opposed to the bidirectional eta but then, I move my arm in both directions when I walk. No doubt you will say if you think it might be harmful.
First impressions after 10 days is that the accuracy of the automatics is improved.