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Thread: Sonos discontinuing updates...

  1. #51
    Master subseastu's Avatar
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    Well at some point its (my stuff) will stop working so its time to start thinking about a new system. Personally I've got all my music in FLAC on a NAS drive and I'm now toying with the idea of getting a music streamer to hook up to my main hifi and then look into a multi room system off that.

  2. #52
    Master mindforge's Avatar
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    I also find this very irritating, especially as I have just bought one of the new Sonos Amps to power four ceiling speakers in my newly renovated house. Had I known about this I would not have further invested in Sonos. I did consider the upgrade route but 30% off RRP and losing one of my Sonos Connects which works perfectly well was not tempting when it could be found for a sale price even on the Sonos website.

    I suppose keeping the legacy products on a separate network if Sonos explain how to do this will be an option for a while and then I will just gradually move to another brand.

    Like most people I started using Sonos to stream FLACs from my NAS which if I am honest with myself, even with my Bridge product, never worked very well. Streaming from Spotify works better but it sounds like that's what we will lose first, unless it's more the IoT functionality that I'm not interested in anyway.

    Apparently the share price has gone down by 2% already.

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  3. #53
    Whilst I completely understand everyone’s frustration (my Sonos Connect is effected), we all bought Sonos for a reason and that’s because it sounds great and works well.

    So a genuine question to all those saying they’ll be looking for a different system because they’re annoyed - what better or even similar options are on the market?

    I know there are lots other smart speakers on the market but do they sound as good or work as seamlessly as Sonos?

    All recommendations welcome.


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  4. #54
    Master mindforge's Avatar
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    I have quite a large range of Sonos and have never found it to work seamlessly or have amazing sound quality, I get a lot of network interruptions despite the Bridge and decent WiFi and the speakers are a bit hollow sounding. But I don't know if there is a other mid range system which is any better.

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  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by dashfield View Post
    Whilst I completely understand everyone’s frustration (my Sonos Connect is effected), we all bought Sonos for a reason and that’s because it sounds great and works well.

    So a genuine question to all those saying they’ll be looking for a different system because they’re annoyed - what better or even similar options are on the market?

    I know there are lots other smart speakers on the market but do they sound as good or work as seamlessly as Sonos?

    All recommendations welcome.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I saw Teufel (teufelaudio.com) recommended on another site - certainly seems to have a decent range and integration options. However, the real question must be whether any integrated solution like this will have the same fundamental problem? Individual units go out of support at some point and how does that impact the operation of the whole?

    I only have Play 1s (and a Bridge now Boost) so I’m not affected right now but when the Play 1 goes out of support and all seven of mine go onto borrowed time then looking for alternatives will probably be sensible.

  6. #56
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    I have 5 play 1s (unaffected) and 1 Legacy Play 5. There is no doubt in my mind that, as things stand and Sonos solution being what it is, I shall be looking at alternatives sooner rather than later. Which to me for a start means not ordering the Beam and the Move that were planned for next month.
    There is logic in saying that the Sonos is like a computer and therefore suffers from the development of technology. But I didn't buy a computer: I bought a speaker. And while I don't expect my speaker's sound to become better overtime, I don't expect it to become obsolete either.
    Sonos says those upgrades improve it. I haven't noted any difference in several years of ownership, apart from the slight inconvenience of having to update it now and again. Without being given a choice, or hearing any difference.

    So for me, they can stuff their upgrades where the sun never shine, and if Spotify evolves in a way that stops me from using them, let there be no doubt that I will tell them the exact same thing.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by dashfield View Post

    I know there are lots other smart speakers on the market but do they sound as good or work as seamlessly as Sonus?

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    Yes, all of the them after 5-10 years :)

  8. #58
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    Planned obsolescence is indeed part of manufacturers grand plan these days unfortunately, but at least Sonos are relatively open about it with press releases etc.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    I have 5 play 1s (unaffected) and 1 Legacy Play 5. There is no doubt in my mind that, as things stand and Sonos solution being what it is, I shall be looking at alternatives sooner rather than later. Which to me for a start means not ordering the Beam and the Move that were planned for next month.
    There is logic in saying that the Sonos is like a computer and therefore suffers from the development of technology. But I didn't buy a computer: I bought a speaker. And while I don't expect my speaker's sound to become better overtime, I don't expect it to become obsolete either.
    Sonos says those upgrades improve it. I haven't noted any difference in several years of ownership, apart from the slight inconvenience of having to update it now and again. Without being given a choice, or hearing any difference.

    So for me, they can stuff their upgrades where the sun never shine, and if Spotify evolves in a way that stops me from using them, let there be no doubt that I will tell them the exact same thing.
    it’s not like a computer it is a computer with dedicated audio functionality.

    You bought a smart speaker, one presumably to utilise Spotify or some other streaming service, were you aware at the time that the smart aspect of the speaker was a computer?

    Do you also understand that the ‘updates’ are not all about introducing new features, they will cover security patches and bug fixes, fixing issues introduced by third party code (Spotify, deezer, tunein, etc) to ensure streaming services continue to work on the Sonos platform?

    The devices will continue to work until one of these third parties make a code change that breaks the service, at that point it’s time to return to your locally stored mp3s and flacs or the line in function.

    There is much nashing of teeth on the internet and I understand that, it’s been handled very poorly by Sonos, that said expecting an network enabled device to be supported indefinitely is not realistic and Sonos have already supported the devices longer than industry norms.

    I think that they could do more to support owners who have had devices <5-6 years but I suspect that would do little to appease owners.

    It sounds to me that the issue is the legacy devices do not have enough ‘compute’ power to keep up with Sonos’ s roadmap, I wonder if this is the case what the reaction would be to Sonos splitting the software support and making ongoing support of legacy devices a paid for service?
    Last edited by Captain Morgan; 23rd January 2020 at 10:52. Reason: Bought not brought :-(

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by mindforge View Post

    Apparently the share price has gone down by 2% already.
    I suspect Sonos is in financial strife and will disappear within a few years.
    They have started desperate lawsuits against Google.
    They dropped their own R&D into voice control opting for Alexa integration.
    They started selling user data.
    They have lost the USP and are being squeezed out by the big players.

    I have a ZP80 and there is no way I would pay £399 (or £280 with 30% discount) for the 'Port' replacement with less features (no spdif).

    Just wish they would open source the firmware on the legacy devices, so the community can support them, like Squeezeboxes.
    Last edited by swatch; 23rd January 2020 at 11:57.

  11. #61
    I've just spent two grand on a Sennheiser Ambeo soundbar which is very "smart", I hope they support it for many years to come or I will be pretty miffed!

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBanks View Post
    Planned obsolescence is indeed part of manufacturers grand plan these days unfortunately, but at least Sonos are relatively open about it with press releases etc.
    I will be affected by this (2x P5 and one connect all bought in 2014).

    It is a bit of a surprise and they way they announced seems to be backfiring on them.

    I suppose I understand and could have envisaged my speakers would eventually become obsolete - just like my CD player, I didn't expect it to be rendered obsolete by the hw manufacturer.

    Even more surprising, I saw speakers today priced at 1700 etc. that possibly will suffer the same fate.

  13. #63
    Master mindforge's Avatar
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    The thing is there has not really been any improved functionality over the years beyond all the optional services that I don't use. So why can't we continue to use legacy devices with the legacy services as surely they are still capable of doing that.

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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post

    So I'll ask again how many 15 year old computers do you have that are still being actively supported by their manufacturer, I'll guess zero...
    Well, I wrote this earlier in this chain, but Linn is still supporting fully all the streamers they've released since 2007 - while not 15 years yet, getting near. They've added airplay, spotify connect, roon etc during that time. The units are also computers inside of course.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by china View Post
    Well, I wrote this earlier in this chain, but Linn is still supporting fully all the streamers they've released since 2007 - while not 15 years yet, getting near. They've added airplay, spotify connect, roon etc during that time. The units are also computers inside of course.
    That’s an interesting point and I’m glad to hear Linn are still supporting them. If I’m correct the price point is significantly different though?

    The Kilmax DS was around $20,000 (if google is correct) the Sonos zp100 was $500, I suspect that given the response to Sonos’s handling of this Linn streamer owners can look forward to a long period of ongoing support ;-)

    I’d have to assume that the longevity of the platform from a company such as Linn would have been a prime concern and that the compute power would have been prime to this.

    I wonder if we will be saying the same about gen 1 echo dots, google assistants or Apple HomePod’s in 10-15 years time...

  16. #66
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    Food for thought. These are the products that received an Excellence Award at CEDIA (the trade show for custom home electronics) in 2006 (the year SONOS really made its start). RTI T4 touchscreen controller, $2500 no longer supported; Crestron Adagio, a multi-thousand dollar home audio system with hard drive media player (imerge) that is no longer supported (and hasn't been for more than a decade); Runco RS-1100 CineWide, $12,000 video projector from a company that no longer exists; Stewart Cinecurve, $20,000+ front projection screen that is still available by special order; Stealth Acoustics A3, $1500 "invisible" in-wall loudspeaker discontinued in 2007, warranty expired in 2011.

    Myself, I'm not thrilled with the way that Sonos handled this either. I've been a dealer since the very beginning, and I got not so much as a note before they contacted 14 years of clients directly. And I'm not allowed to take part in the discount program either, so the sales at 30% off won't be going through me. I've got a couple dozen calls from concerned clients over the past 24hrs, and I'm sure many more to come. Its a GD mess.

    But, this was inevitable. We have be running up against the memory limitations of the older chipset for over a decade. Its not exactly a surprise that a new hardware platform is needed. Nor is it surprising that it is cheaper to replace the the equipment with new, than it is to upgrade the internal hardware. Especially as the new gear carries such a large discount.

  17. #67
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    There are also customers who bought a Betamax system when it came out. It is an accepted fact that a company can go down, and your investment with it. But from what you're saying, not only have they alienated a part of their users, they've also managed to upset their reseller's network, both by keeping them in the dark and by making sure they wouldn't see a penny of the upgrade.

    There is a PR genius at work, here.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  18. #68
    This was discussed on "You and yours", the BBC's lunchtime consumer programme on Radio 4 today, so chances are that will be enough to give the hornet's nest a further kick, and Sonos some more well-deserved bad publicity.

    It does look like a rather spectacular own goal.
    Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.

  19. #69
    Master mindforge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backward point View Post
    This was discussed on "You and yours", the BBC's lunchtime consumer programme on Radio 4 today, so chances are that will be enough to give the hornet's nest a further kick, and Sonos some more well-deserved bad publicity.

    It does look like a rather spectacular own goal.
    I heard that too. Didn't agree with their expert's assessment of the market though, not like they are suddenly selling cheap speakers now.

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  20. #70
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    For those who are interested here's a chart showing the storage and memory capacity of the various Sonos products. And yep those sizes are in MB not GB...

    I might make it easier to understand why they are stoping updates to the earliest devices.


  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    For those who are interested here's a chart showing the storage and memory capacity of the various Sonos products. And yep those sizes are in MB not GB...

    I might make it easier to understand why they are stoping updates to the earliest devices.

    That is interesting to see. Wondering if they can produce a dongle type thing to get over the memory and processor limitations on older kit?

  22. #72
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    With the price of memory, it seems daft to have put such little amounts into the early devices.

    I preferred the buttons on the play 1 to the ones, so sold them on to have the older version. Kicking myself now somewhat!


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  23. #73
    The CEO of Sonos has just released a new statement responded to all the ‘feedback’. It’s worth a read if you’re affected

    https://apple.news/ADRvIdwGgRraNKVJRjKRZpw


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  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    For those who are interested here's a chart showing the storage and memory capacity of the various Sonos products. And yep those sizes are in MB not GB...

    I might make it easier to understand why they are stoping updates to the earliest devices.

    Genuinely really interesting - thanks very much for sharing

    My stuff made it through this wave, but based on this I now have a good idea it won’t last forever!

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by dashfield View Post
    The CEO of Sonos has just released a new statement responded to all the ‘feedback’. It’s worth a read if you’re affected

    https://apple.news/ADRvIdwGgRraNKVJRjKRZpw


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    Thanks for the info on this thread.

    Looks like I'm going to have to start upgrading my Sonos systems soon 😒

  26. #76
    Grand Master Mr Curta's Avatar
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    I'm still using quite a few bits of IT equipment that ceased being supported years ago, and I reckon this will be no different. Some bright spark usually comes up with a work-around.

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    That’s an interesting point and I’m glad to hear Linn are still supporting them. If I’m correct the price point is significantly different though?
    That is correct, I think the models start at around 1500gpb and I'm sure they did think thoroughly that they will not make the units useless very soon. I have to say that even knowing Linn and their support policy, I've been very positively surprised by how much they can do with units that are so old. They've introduced pretty much everything that come out for streaming (all the services), room optimization etc.

    I understand completely that is is quite different for a company where the average unit sales price is in hundreds. I had a Squeezebox before, and like some said, they did a nice move and opened up the platform to active users when the company stopped support. Those units also still work and they are more than 15 years old.

  28. #78
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    There is a lot of comment about “legacy” in this thread but there will be people that have connects or connect amps that were manufactured only 5 years ago, which means potentially only purchased 4 years ago if a retailer was holding stock (those weren’t fast moving lines).

    I cannot see how those timescales could ever be described as legacy? In fact I would think that it’s a short enough timescale for a challenge under consumer protection laws?

  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barney12 View Post
    In fact I would think that it's a short enough timescale for a challenge under consumer protection laws?
    Basically... no.

  30. #80
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    It is the connect purchase that annoys me the most as I can only have had it 3-4 years.

    It gave my zeppelin a new lease of life as otherwise became a bit redundant in the ‘house of music’.

    Neither were cheap originally & will be annoyed if there isn’t a work around. My zeppelin used to provide the bass to the open plan kitchen, dining room & garden room, each have a play 1 in their relevant areas.

    Did I miss seeing anything on the sub, surely that has its own communication requirements also?


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  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mj2k View Post
    It is the connect purchase that annoys me the most as I can only have had it 3-4 years.

    It gave my zeppelin a new lease of life as otherwise became a bit redundant in the ‘house of music’.

    Neither were cheap originally & will be annoyed if there isn’t a work around. My zeppelin used to provide the bass to the open plan kitchen, dining room & garden room, each have a play 1 in their relevant areas.

    Did I miss seeing anything on the sub, surely that has its own communication requirements also?


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    The new connect was released in 2015, so if you have a legacy connect you were sold old stock, unlikely you’ll be able to get the retailer to do anything, not really Sonos’s fault but must be annoying all the same.

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    The new connect was released in 2015, so if you have a legacy connect you were sold old stock, unlikely you’ll be able to get the retailer to do anything, not really Sonos’s fault but must be annoying all the same.
    Ok that might be interesting, as it was purchased, or rather ordered specifically for me by the retailer I use (a friend of mine for 20yrs), so if Sonos sent out old stock then there might be some light.

    Will check when I am back next. But could be positive as didn’t know there was a newer version.

    My other one that’s legacy is a bridge, got given it & decided to use it to keep my network separate to my main Wi-Fi, no idea why but seemed a good idea!

    assuming there is no need to worry about this being on the main set up? I’m running Orbi around the house, so speed etc not an issue.


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  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    I feel for the people who I've installed Sonos for as a multi room set up a few years back. Some have 5 amplifiers installed in cupboards running multiple speaker systems.
    Strange to me that an Arcam A/V amp and DVD, CD players still work after all these years after updates and manufacturers moving the goalposts for the software to play on them.
    my old multi room was updated and I have about 8 connects in a central cupboard, so even with a 30% discount its still a lot of bloody money to replace the kit; they launch this as a hi tec bit of kit and then turn off support when it suits them. If mine starts to play up I'll switch to Linn, which will probably work out less based on initial inquiries!

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mj2k View Post
    Ok that might be interesting, as it was purchased, or rather ordered specifically for me by the retailer I use (a friend of mine for 20yrs), so if Sonos sent out old stock then there might be some light.

    Will check when I am back next. But could be positive as didn’t know there was a newer version.

    My other one that’s legacy is a bridge, got given it & decided to use it to keep my network separate to my main Wi-Fi, no idea why but seemed a good idea!

    assuming there is no need to worry about this being on the main set up? I’m running Orbi around the house, so speed etc not an issue.


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    You might need to do some digging to see when the unit was released in 2015 as memory can be a fickle thing and you might have had it longer than you think.
    If you go to your Sonos account then it might tell you when it was added to the system.

  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by westberks View Post
    my old multi room was updated and I have about 8 connects in a central cupboard, so even with a 30% discount its still a lot of bloody money to replace the kit; they launch this as a hi tec bit of kit and then turn off support when it suits them. If mine starts to play up I'll switch to Linn, which will probably work out less based on initial inquiries!
    Yeah they launch this hi tech kit 15 years ago...

  36. #86
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    I have Playbar, Sub, 4x Play 1 and a Sonos One.

    To be honest I’ll be furious if & when they turn off support to these models.*

    It will be interesting to see how the two class Sonos system will work (assuming Sonos allow both versions on same system).

    I assume the onus will then fall on companies like Spotify and TuneIn to make sure they don’t do anything to scupper the old kit working.

    All that being said, Sonos could solve all of these issues with an upgrade box sold as a standalone or part of a newer speaker. The old kit could effectively be left as dumb terminals (they stream music via Wi-fi or Ethernet FGS) whilst the enhanced processing chips and firmware would live somewhere else.

    *If anyone is getting nervous I am after a secondhand play 1 in grey!

  37. #87
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    Sonos discontinuing updates...

    Looks like they are backtracking a bit.


    We heard you. We did not get this right from the start. My apologies for that and I wanted to personally assure you of the path forward:

    First, rest assured that come May, when we end new software updates for our legacy products, they will continue to work just as they do today. We are not bricking them, we are not forcing them into obsolescence, and we are not taking anything away. Many of you have invested heavily in your Sonos systems, and we intend to honour that investment for as long as possible. Whilst legacy Sonos products won’t get new software features, we pledge to keep them updated with bug fixes and security patches for as long as possible. If we run into something core to the experience that can’t be addressed, we’ll work to offer an alternative solution and let you know about any changes you’ll see in your experience.

    Secondly, we heard you on the issue of legacy products and modern products not being able to coexist in your home. We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, whilst legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalising details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks.

    Whilst we have a lot of great products and features in the pipeline, we want our customers to upgrade to our latest and greatest products when they’re excited by what the new products offer, not because they feel forced to do so. That’s the intent of the Trade Up programme we launched for our loyal customers.

    Thank you for being a Sonos customer. Thank you for taking the time to give us your feedback. I hope that you’ll forgive our misstep and let us earn back your trust. Without you, Sonos wouldn't exist and we’ll work harder than ever to earn your loyalty every single day.

    If you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate to contact us.
    Sincerely,
    Patrick

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  38. #88
    Yes, they did not get it right. It still leaves a slightly bitter taste in the mouth frankly.

  39. #89
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    On the other hand, it’s good they put their hands up quickly and started back from scratch. I wish everyone would be as prompt as they were. Especially politicians.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  40. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    On the other hand, it’s good they put their hands up quickly and started back from scratch. I wish everyone would be as prompt as they were. Especially politicians.
    Really? I don’t think his note says anything new, it’s the same message dressed up with an apology. There’s still no concrete information on future roadmap or interoperability for example.

  41. #91
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    I thought I’d update this thread as you can now find out more about the planned splitting of systems into legacy and non-legacy products...

    https://support.sonos.com/s/article/4786?language=en_US

    So if, like me, you have a mix of ‘old’ and ‘new’ products, and subscribe to a streaming service eg Spotify, if you split the system you will get issues if you try to run the old and new systems simultaneously. Also, if you split your system you can’t group them any more.

    More here
    https://support.sonos.com/s/article/4824?language=en_US

    For owners of mixed age products like me it seems you either accept the risk of losing support, or accept the trade up options, which aren’t all they are cracked up to be because you can get some of the products at 16% discount anyway.

    Til now Sonos ownership was always a pleasure.

    Ian

  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by ism123 View Post
    I thought I’d update this thread as you can now find out more about the planned splitting of systems into legacy and non-legacy products...
    Thanks, that's useful.
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  43. #93
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    Same situation as me. Having bought an Amp just before the announcements, all the rest of my system is S1 except bizarrely a Play 3 that I barely use anyway.

    I'm just going to keep everything on S1 as long as possible.

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  44. #94
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    Yeah I'm hanging on until I start having issues with mine. I'm leaning towards the bluesound node system

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  45. #95
    Master
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    I’ve always used a bridge, so assume I am best just removing this & setting my play:1 units directly to my router?

  46. #96
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mj2k View Post
    I’ve always used a bridge, so assume I am best just removing this & setting my play:1 units directly to my router?
    I would have thought so. If you cable connect a Play:1 it will create a Sonos mesh anyway

  47. #97
    Grand Master MartynJC (UK)'s Avatar
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    Providing software updates for 15y is very good indeed. As others have said - ring fence the obsolete (no updates available) equipment and you can run it forever.

  48. #98
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by reecie View Post
    I would have thought so. If you cable connect a Play:1 it will create a Sonos mesh anyway
    That is the problem, can’t really cable connect one due to location of the router vs speaker. Will have to have a think on this one

  49. #99
    Think the play1 only needs a cable for initial set up

  50. #100
    Master mindforge's Avatar
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    Aug 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartynJC (UK) View Post
    Providing software updates for 15y is very good indeed. As others have said - ring fence the obsolete (no updates available) equipment and you can run it forever.
    Except many of the now obsolete models are only a few years old. I have no problem with foregoing new functionality, the problem is you will not be able to group new with old systems.

    Sent from my HD1913 using Tapatalk

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