London ULEZ Zone - Charge Notice

[noTAGlove]

I live on the outskirts of SW London, but rarely (maybe once every couple of years) drive into Central London. But, I decided to the day that Network Rail had shut down the rail line a couple of weekends ago into Waterloo, from Surbiton area.

We had matinee tickets for a show in town and rather than endure 2 hours each way on a mix of train and replacement buses, I decide to drive in, a bit of research told me it was free to park a stones throw from Waterloo from 1pm onwards on Saturday. It was just after New Year so traffic was very light which made the decision easy.

All good. Driven in, parked and driven out. All uneventful until yesterday when a letter drops on my door mat from Transport for London (TfL)

My car does not meet the ULEZ criteria (it's Euro V diesel and should be Euro VI) and that's a £160 fine to pay to TfL please (£80 if I pay in 14 days), as I didn't pay the £12.50 to enter the ULEZ zone.

Never heard of any ULEZ zone and I live 14 miles from Central London. Not heard it on the TV or radio, and didn't get a flyer through my door. Can't have been that well advertised then, and even if it was, you can't guarantee the information has been processed.

And it seems like many people haven't heard of it either with 307,000 tickets issued in the first six months of operation raising £41 million!!

So, I look at the ULEZ signs on-line that I must have driven past. No mention of any charges on the sign (which you've only got a split second to read anyway as your driving). No mention that diesels and petrol cars must meet Euro VI and Euro IV emissions respectively. Even if it did, driving past them as 30 mph would have made no difference.

Surely they give every registered car one warning so you can pay the £12.50 for entering the ULEZ zone in retorspect? Then is you do it again you get the full fine. Not a chance. There's no excuse. Suck it up.

I've had this crap from TfL before, and it is nothing more than lawful extortion. If it was a 3rd world country with a dictatorship, it would be seen as blatant corrupt practise.

How does TfL get away with the sh!te??!!

Apparently its being extended as far as the North and South circulars in 2021, so beware.

[Coronet king]

Drove into central London for work last week and had the pleasure of paying £24 for the day’s experience.
The guy I was working for kept reminding me to pay as they don’t take any prisoners.

[stuie-t]

There is going to be a lot of people living within the north and south circulars in for a nasty shock next year when they realise they can’t drive their 6 year old diesel car without paying the daily charge.


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[noTAGlove]

There is going to be a lot of people living within the north and south circulars in for a nasty shock next year when they realise they can’t drive their 6 year old diesel car without paying the daily charge.


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And if you’ve got a 6+ year old diesel car, it may be a good idea to flog it soon. I imagine values will soon take a plummet.

[walkerwek1958]

And if you’ve got a 6+ year old diesel car, it may be a good idea to flog it soon. I imagine values will soon take a plummet.

Only if you live near a city that has these crazy rules. The world's going mad.

Here's a question: What if you've had an older car modified to meet Euro 6?......unlikely but technically feasible.

[dougair]

Only if you live near a city that has these crazy rules. The world's going mad.

Here's a question: What if you've had an older car modified to meet Euro 6?......unlikely but technically feasible.

Crazy rules?! So trying to reduce air pollution in London is crazy, huh, who’d have thought!

To the OP I sympathise but this has been a long time coming and has been coming up in discussions I’ve been having for some time. We sold our 2008 vw diesel about 2 1/2 years ago!

[pinpull]

Crazy rules?! So trying to reduce air pollution in London is crazy, huh, who’d have thought!

I actually understood the comment as saying the rules are crazy, not trying to reduce pollution was crazy.

I've been speaking to friends living and working in cities about it too, and they all think it's a good thing. Ironically, many of them are smokers who are happy to contaminate their lungs with tar, pass their smoke onto others around them, but want to breathe cleaner city air whilst they're doing so! Yep, a crazy world indeed!



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[MrSmith]

Only if you live near a city that has these crazy rules. The world's going mad.

yes it certainly has...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51132764

[W124]

Only if you live near a city that has these crazy rules. The world's going mad.

Here's a question: What if you've had an older car modified to meet Euro 6?......unlikely but technically feasible.

Yes - There is one TFL approved testing centre around London - From memory they charge around £125.

If they determine that the NOx figure is below the appropriate Euro 4 or 6 standard, they issue you a certificate which is acceptable to Lord Kahn and his minions.
You are then exempt from the ULEZ charge.

The TFL website is NOT definitive - it is based on assumptions of the Euro emissions rating that was in force when your vehicle was registered, or they may not the true data for your vehicle..


For example, my 2005 R1200RT is not Euro 3 compliant on the TFL website, yet the NOx figure published by BMW Motorrad would easily meet the Euro 6 requirement.

BMW will issue you with a certificate of compliance, which states the true NOx figure for your vehicle. This certificate is sufficient for TFL to issue an exemption.

BMW do not charge for this service, but I believe that other manufacturers or importers may charge.

[oldoakknives]

Seems like another good reason not to live anywhere near the place.

[rgee]

And if you’ve got a 6+ year old diesel car, it may be a good idea to flog it soon. I imagine values will soon take a plummet.

Its not only older diesels but older petrol as well. My other half has a 1999 2.0 Mondeo which she has had since new, so literally 1 lady owner low miles, but its not ULEZ compliant.

[wileeeeeey]

And if you’ve got a 6+ year old diesel car, it may be a good idea to flog it soon. I imagine values will soon take a plummet.

Already done. I had a 1.6 diesel 2015 Qashqai which I sold last year because of ULEZ. Doesn't impact me much currently as I drive into London only once or twice per month on the weekend for 'pleasure' but would have hammered me when it extended to inside the A406. Lost more than I should have as I only had the car about a year before finding out about it but worth doing for the certainty.

My brother bought a van just over a year ago and I had to hammered home beyond belief for him to get a petrol. His words "if what you're saying is true this would be all over the news. Surely people would be talking about it??". In the end he bought a petrol auto Caddy, couldn't be happier and is grateful for my belligerence.

I did try to buy a petrol estate but the wife exercised her veto and we bought a Euro 6 GLC. In fairness the petrol GLC was £14k more at the time and would have come with the luxury tax of an added £500 per year due to the petrol model being released much later than the diesel.

[Sinnlover]

There is a petition on Change.org

My father got stung with this shortly after it was introduced, he went to the ombudsman yesterday who provisionally found in his favour (confirmation to come though).
its worth contesting although it does take a while, there are plenty of loop hole in the legislation. Unfortunately it is being extended to the north and south circulars.

[bry nylon]

Must say I'm a bit surprised that you have 'never heard of the ULEZ' as it was advertised quite heavily in the press and on the radio before it was introduced..

I do think that, as you suggest, they should waive the fine in the first instance and let you pay the charge..
I was granted this opportunity recently when I forgot to pay the DART charge when I went to pick up my Seamaster from a service by STS in deepest Essex.. I was liable for a big fine and was mightily relieved to see that if I paid up (after receiving a charge notice), they would waive the fine..

[W124]

I live on the outskirts of SW London, but rarely (maybe once every couple of years) drive into Central London. But, I decided to the day that Network Rail had shut down the rail line a couple of weekends ago into Waterloo, from Surbiton area.

Never heard of any ULEZ zone and I live 14 miles from Central London. Not heard it on the TV or radio, and didn't get a flyer through my door. Can't have been that well advertised then, and even if it was, you can't guarantee the information has been processed.

How does TfL get away with the sh!te??!!

Apparently its being extended as far as the North and South circulars in 2021, so beware.

This has been covered extensively in the 'Even Stannit' for several years, I fail to see how as a 'local' you can not be aware of it.
Surely seeing the ULEZ signs would pique your interest to spend 30 seconds on-line and find out if you needed to take action.

It's easy to check if your vehicle meets the specific emissisions NOx requirements.
The data is likely on your V5C, or you can request a statement of compliance from the UK importer/manufacturer.

I live near near Preston, and have registered my elderly R1200 RT BMW so that I can ride straight to the office nr Waterloo without issue.
It took about two weeks for TFL to send me confirmation that my bike was exempt.

[dougair]

This has been covered extensively in the 'Even Stannit' for several years, I fail to see how as a 'local' you can not be aware of it.
Surely seeing the ULEZ signs would pique your interest to spend 30 seconds on-line and find out if you needed to take action.

It's easy to check if your vehicle meets the specific emissisions NOx requirements.
The data is likely on your V5C, or you can request a statement of compliance from the UK importer/manufacturer.

I live near near Preston, and have registered my elderly R1200 RT BMW so that I can ride straight to the office nr Waterloo without issue.
It took about two weeks for TFL to send me confirmation that my bike was exempt.

You can put your reg in the website and it will tell you in about 10 secs.

[Enoch]

You can put your reg in the website and it will tell you in about 10 secs.

Just checked..

My 2016 5.0 V8 mustang is exempt, as is the wife’s 2006 5.7 V8 Jeep Hemi

So there’s your answer....buy a massive gas guzzling V8 and you’ll be in the clear🤪🤪

[deanlad]

Just checked..

My 2016 5.0 V8 mustang is exempt, as is the wife’s 2006 5.7 V8 Jeep Hemi

So there’s your answer....buy a massive gas guzzling V8 and you’ll be in the clear浪浪

I got the Mrs a Landrover Freelander 2. Quite a rare one, it’s a petrol 3.2 , 6 cylinder. Fortunately euro 5 so good to go.
Will be keeping that until the next round of rule changes.
2001 Porsche Boxster I had would have been liable to charge, but that’s sold anyway.

I’m tempted to put a v8 in my Hilux work vehicle, then convert to gas....
Good truck, perfect being open back, small enough to park, tools in extra cab bit, and carry materials, but it’s liable to the charge. When it’s extended next year, I’ll have to pay every single day...

[Saint-Just]

Just checked..

My 2016 5.0 V8 mustang is exempt, as is the wife’s 2006 5.7 V8 Jeep Hemi

So there’s your answer....buy a massive gas guzzling V8 and you’ll be in the clear浪浪

Now, THAT is crazy

[walkerwek1958]

Firstly, anyone who lives in the London area has my sympathies, expensive over-congested dump in my opinion.

Air quality in built-up areas is a concern, and I agree it needs addressing, but the logic in banning cars of a certain age is flawed. The majority of the cars on the roads are newer ones, there aren`t that many older than 10 years, and the older cars generally do low mileage, so the overall contribution of older cars to the air quality problem isn't great. Older cars often get scrapped when they fail emissions tests at MOT time, so there's a high rate of natural wastage going on that gets rid of them anyway.

Has a credible study been carried out to estimate the impact of removing Euro 5 (and older) private cars from the roads in these areas? I`m willing to bet it hasn`t. Euro 5 cars are pretty clean-running anyway, look at the NOx spec for diesels and it only comes down by a factor of two on the latest Euro 6 models.

Smaller engines, hybrids, stop-start technology, all have a part to play, and in the fullness of time the effects will hopefully be measurable. In the meantime, penalising/banning relatively recent Euro 5 cars from areas isn't going to have much impact.

Most of us are part of the problem, we all want the convenience of cars and that causes traffic congestion (which is at the root of the problem) in most built-up areas. Effective public transport helps but in most areas it's woefully inadequate. We're stuck with cars, change has to come, but it's the way the change is being managed that I take issue with. It's not that long ago that we were all implicitly encouraged to own diesel cars on the basis of CO2 savings, the politicians saw this as the right flag to wave at the time, but that's a global issue that we have minimal influence on, so apart from being seen to be 'doing the right thing' there was no benefit to Britain. Concerns were raised regarding diesel particulates and NOx, but these were disregarded at the time (wrongly in my opinion). We can`t influence the CO2 global warming issue but we can influence our own local air quality, that's why the push for diesels was a mistake, but unfairly penalising folks who own older diesel cars is not the right answer. This is a political move, it's the right badge for the Sadiq Kahns of this world to be seen to be waving, so consequently we get the current crazy situation.

Hope that clarifys my understanding and my view for Dougair and others....if not that's tough.

[walkerwek1958]

Just checked..

My 2016 5.0 V8 mustang is exempt, as is the wife’s 2006 5.7 V8 Jeep Hemi

So there’s your answer....buy a massive gas guzzling V8 and you’ll be in the clear浪浪

Good luck to you Enoch, enjoy 'em before the politicians ban them for being too nice. Not quite my cup of tea but I can see the attraction........I love the smell of petrol in the morning

[benny.c]

Just checked..

My 2016 5.0 V8 mustang is exempt, as is the wife’s 2006 5.7 V8 Jeep Hemi

So there’s your answer....buy a massive gas guzzling V8 and you’ll be in the clear浪浪

Just checked our Jeep Hemi and it’s also exempt. Who could have guessed we’d be so environmentally friendly.

(15yr old Cooper S and Z4 also fine although my ‘88 M3 isn’t).

[Brian]

Just checked..

My 2016 5.0 V8 mustang is exempt, as is the wife’s 2006 5.7 V8 Jeep Hemi

So there’s your answer....buy a massive gas guzzling V8 and you’ll be in the clear浪浪

Yay, just checked my 16 year old 4.3l V8 GS Lexus and it is exempt. Meets the standard.

B

[MrSmith]

“ Do you REALLY use public transport in London? If yes, your standards are very low indeed.”

I live in SE19 and say on a 25min train to London Bridge as I type. Over half my friends do not own cars, those that do tend to use them for long trips at weekends or hardly at all. Nobody commutes in one!
Where I live has no tube (I moved there to be 25min on a bike to country roads) but overground and Victoria/London Bridge links.
I have no issue with public transport, especially when I walk past the stationary cars sat in traffic.

[Christian]

“ Do you REALLY use public transport in London? If yes, your standards are very low indeed.”

I live in SE19 and say on a 25min train to London Bridge as I type. Over half my friends do not own cars, those that do tend to use them for long trips at weekends or hardly at all. Nobody commutes in one!
Where I live has no tube (I moved there to be 25min on a bike to country roads) but overground and Victoria/London Bridge links.
I have no issue with public transport, especially when I walk past the stationary cars sat in traffic.

+1 I’d always choose to use public transport in London over driving.

[Saint-Just]

+1 I’d always choose to use public transport in London over driving.

That was not my beef, we've both always done the same. My issue was when our esteemed member said there was nothing wrong with public transport in London apart from it being underused.

I content that they are used to capacity, and more, and any increase in restrictions to car traffic MUST be preceded by an increase in public transport capacity (that, and sorting out the train mess).

[dougair]

That was not my beef, we've both always done the same. My issue was when our esteemed member said there was nothing wrong with public transport in London apart from it being underused.

I content that they are used to capacity, and more, and any increase in restrictions to car traffic MUST be preceded by an increase in public transport capacity (that, and sorting out the train mess).

You seem to have something against me so I’ll happily leave you to it from now on. Enjoy.

[deanlad]

I would, but impossible. Can’t take paving/ sand cement/bags of rubbish etc etc on train/tube/tram.
On rare occasions I venture into capital in rush hour, it’s a bit of a liberty that you’re hemmed in like cattle, and no chance of a seat. Tickets are not cheap.

[joe narvey]

I rode a classic bike around London for the distinguished gentlemen’s ride. I also personally donated as much as I could and had some very kind sponsors on another forum.

I got the ULEZ penalty charge, really took the edge off fund raising for men’s health charities as it made me depressed !

[joe narvey]

If you park a diesel in some areas you also get an environment charge so a new diesel car will cost ULEZ, Con charge and diesel charge.

[Lammylee]

On the official site when I put in my registration it says my 1967 Lambretta would be liable for the charge, however because it’s a tax free historic vehicle it’s exempt from the charge.

[RobDad]

As an ex-Londoner, with 20 years+ of daily commuting by bus and train under my belt, I’m genuinely amazed how anyone puts up with it! - and this cynical tax, on cars we were all encouraged to buy just a few short years ago, will probably make as much difference as the congestion charge - which is nothing from what I can see. I really don’t understand how encouraging people to get a new car every time you change the rules is in any way ‘green’ - most of the rich who live in London will just buy a massive electric Porsche or similar whilst your average Jo can no longer afford a car and swelters on the increasingly packed public transport system. Try having kids in London without a car - absolute nightmare!


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[RobDad]

Public transport in London is hideous. Now I’ve had a few years away, I realise how my daily commute from zone 5 to 1 sucked the life out of me over 20 years. It wasn’t the job, it was the commute!- Try travelling on a packed tube into Oxford Circus on a warm summers day wearing a business suit. Try leaving 30 minutes earlier than you really need to every single morning because of the inevitable delays. Thank god I’m tall - at least I avoided most armpits! - then at the end of the day many tube stations can’t handle the crush so just lock the entrances until the platforms clear - for maybe 20 minutes to half an hour. Then there’s the eye contact avoidance and hiding your watch up your sleeve when you’re travelling on a train full of youths who seem to be weighing up their next potential mugging victim, the set jaw and glazed stare so you don’t attract attention or look like easy pickings. If this all sounds paranoid, I genuinely hated the experience. I bought a motorbike and commuted that way for a good 7 years just to avoid public transport, but after I had a bike stolen and a couple of near misses on diesel spills I made a decision to get the hell out!
But hey, millions of people seem to love the place and that’s fine, they’re welcome to wear their rose tinted glasses and stay on their tunes and buses - but I’m out!


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[oldoakknives]

Public transport in London is hideous. Now I’ve had a few years away, I realise how my daily commute from zone 5 to 1 sucked the life out of me over 20 years. It wasn’t the job, it was the commute!- Try travelling on a packed tube into Oxford Circus on a warm summers day wearing a business suit. Try leaving 30 minutes earlier than you really need to every single morning because of the inevitable delays. Thank god I’m tall - at least I avoided most armpits! - then at the end of the day many tube stations can’t handle the crush so just lock the entrances until the platforms clear - for maybe 20 minutes to half an hour. Then there’s the eye contact avoidance and hiding your watch up your sleeve when you’re travelling on a train full of youths who seem to be weighing up their next potential mugging victim, the set jaw and glazed stare so you don’t attract attention or look like easy pickings. If this all sounds paranoid, I genuinely hated the experience. I bought a motorbike and commuted that way for a good 7 years just to avoid public transport, but after I had a bike stolen and a couple of near misses on diesel spills I made a decision to get the hell out!
But hey, millions of people seem to love the place and that’s fine, they’re welcome to wear their rose tinted glasses and stay on their tunes and buses - but I’m out!


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Don’t blame you, can’t think of anything worse tbh. Used to think it was bad having a 45 minute drive to work, mostly through the countryside, now realise it was so much better than all that malarkey!!