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Thread: London ULEZ Zone - Charge Notice

  1. #1

    London ULEZ Zone - Charge Notice

    I live on the outskirts of SW London, but rarely (maybe once every couple of years) drive into Central London. But, I decided to the day that Network Rail had shut down the rail line a couple of weekends ago into Waterloo, from Surbiton area.

    We had matinee tickets for a show in town and rather than endure 2 hours each way on a mix of train and replacement buses, I decide to drive in, a bit of research told me it was free to park a stones throw from Waterloo from 1pm onwards on Saturday. It was just after New Year so traffic was very light which made the decision easy.

    All good. Driven in, parked and driven out. All uneventful until yesterday when a letter drops on my door mat from Transport for London (TfL)

    My car does not meet the ULEZ criteria (it's Euro V diesel and should be Euro VI) and that's a £160 fine to pay to TfL please (£80 if I pay in 14 days), as I didn't pay the £12.50 to enter the ULEZ zone.

    Never heard of any ULEZ zone and I live 14 miles from Central London. Not heard it on the TV or radio, and didn't get a flyer through my door. Can't have been that well advertised then, and even if it was, you can't guarantee the information has been processed.

    And it seems like many people haven't heard of it either with 307,000 tickets issued in the first six months of operation raising £41 million!!

    So, I look at the ULEZ signs on-line that I must have driven past. No mention of any charges on the sign (which you've only got a split second to read anyway as your driving). No mention that diesels and petrol cars must meet Euro VI and Euro IV emissions respectively. Even if it did, driving past them as 30 mph would have made no difference.

    Surely they give every registered car one warning so you can pay the £12.50 for entering the ULEZ zone in retorspect? Then is you do it again you get the full fine. Not a chance. There's no excuse. Suck it up.

    I've had this crap from TfL before, and it is nothing more than lawful extortion. If it was a 3rd world country with a dictatorship, it would be seen as blatant corrupt practise.

    How does TfL get away with the sh!te??!!

    Apparently its being extended as far as the North and South circulars in 2021, so beware.

  2. #2
    Craftsman
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    Drove into central London for work last week and had the pleasure of paying £24 for the dayís experience.
    The guy I was working for kept reminding me to pay as they donít take any prisoners.

  3. #3
    Craftsman
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    There is going to be a lot of people living within the north and south circulars in for a nasty shock next year when they realise they canít drive their 6 year old diesel car without paying the daily charge.


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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by stuie-t View Post
    There is going to be a lot of people living within the north and south circulars in for a nasty shock next year when they realise they canít drive their 6 year old diesel car without paying the daily charge.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
    And if youíve got a 6+ year old diesel car, it may be a good idea to flog it soon. I imagine values will soon take a plummet.

  5. #5
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    And if you’ve got a 6+ year old diesel car, it may be a good idea to flog it soon. I imagine values will soon take a plummet.
    Only if you live near a city that has these crazy rules. The world's going mad.

    Here's a question: What if you've had an older car modified to meet Euro 6?......unlikely but technically feasible.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    Only if you live near a city that has these crazy rules. The world's going mad.

    Here's a question: What if you've had an older car modified to meet Euro 6?......unlikely but technically feasible.
    Crazy rules?! So trying to reduce air pollution in London is crazy, huh, whoíd have thought!

    To the OP I sympathise but this has been a long time coming and has been coming up in discussions Iíve been having for some time. We sold our 2008 vw diesel about 2 1/2 years ago!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    And if youíve got a 6+ year old diesel car, it may be a good idea to flog it soon. I imagine values will soon take a plummet.
    Its not only older diesels but older petrol as well. My other half has a 1999 2.0 Mondeo which she has had since new, so literally 1 lady owner low miles, but its not ULEZ compliant.

  8. #8
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    There is a petition on Change.org

    My father got stung with this shortly after it was introduced, he went to the ombudsman yesterday who provisionally found in his favour (confirmation to come though).
    its worth contesting although it does take a while, there are plenty of loop hole in the legislation. Unfortunately it is being extended to the north and south circulars.

  9. #9
    Master
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    Must say I'm a bit surprised that you have 'never heard of the ULEZ' as it was advertised quite heavily in the press and on the radio before it was introduced..

    I do think that, as you suggest, they should waive the fine in the first instance and let you pay the charge..
    I was granted this opportunity recently when I forgot to pay the DART charge when I went to pick up my Seamaster from a service by STS in deepest Essex.. I was liable for a big fine and was mightily relieved to see that if I paid up (after receiving a charge notice), they would waive the fine..
    Last edited by bry nylon; 16th January 2020 at 15:58. Reason: typo

  10. #10
    Master pinpull's Avatar
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    London ULEZ Zone - Charge Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by dougair View Post
    Crazy rules?! So trying to reduce air pollution in London is crazy, huh, whoíd have thought!
    I actually understood the comment as saying the rules are crazy, not trying to reduce pollution was crazy.

    I've been speaking to friends living and working in cities about it too, and they all think it's a good thing. Ironically, many of them are smokers who are happy to contaminate their lungs with tar, pass their smoke onto others around them, but want to breathe cleaner city air whilst they're doing so! Yep, a crazy world indeed!



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    Last edited by pinpull; 16th January 2020 at 15:36.

  11. #11
    Master W124's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    I live on the outskirts of SW London, but rarely (maybe once every couple of years) drive into Central London. But, I decided to the day that Network Rail had shut down the rail line a couple of weekends ago into Waterloo, from Surbiton area.

    Never heard of any ULEZ zone and I live 14 miles from Central London. Not heard it on the TV or radio, and didn't get a flyer through my door. Can't have been that well advertised then, and even if it was, you can't guarantee the information has been processed.

    How does TfL get away with the sh!te??!!

    Apparently its being extended as far as the North and South circulars in 2021, so beware.
    This has been covered extensively in the 'Even Stannit' for several years, I fail to see how as a 'local' you can not be aware of it.
    Surely seeing the ULEZ signs would pique your interest to spend 30 seconds on-line and find out if you needed to take action.

    It's easy to check if your vehicle meets the specific emissisions NOx requirements.
    The data is likely on your V5C, or you can request a statement of compliance from the UK importer/manufacturer.

    I live near near Preston, and have registered my elderly R1200 RT BMW so that I can ride straight to the office nr Waterloo without issue.
    It took about two weeks for TFL to send me confirmation that my bike was exempt.
    Last edited by W124; 16th January 2020 at 16:00.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    Only if you live near a city that has these crazy rules. The world's going mad.
    yes it certainly has...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51132764

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by pinpull View Post
    I actually understood the comment as saying the rules are crazy, not trying to reduce pollution was crazy.

    I've been speaking to friends living and working in cities about it too, and they all think it's a good thing. Ironically, many of them are smokers who are happy to contaminate their lungs with tar, pass their smoke onto others around them, but want to breathe cleaner city air whilst they're doing so! Yep, a crazy world indeed!



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Now that is crazy 😂

    Personally, living inside the south circular the extension canít come quick enough.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by W124 View Post
    This has been covered extensively in the 'Even Stannit' for several years, I fail to see how as a 'local' you can not be aware of it.
    Surely seeing the ULEZ signs would pique your interest to spend 30 seconds on-line and find out if you needed to take action.

    It's easy to check if your vehicle meets the specific emissisions NOx requirements.
    The data is likely on your V5C, or you can request a statement of compliance from the UK importer/manufacturer.

    I live near near Preston, and have registered my elderly R1200 RT BMW so that I can ride straight to the office nr Waterloo without issue.
    It took about two weeks for TFL to send me confirmation that my bike was exempt.
    You can put your reg in the website and it will tell you in about 10 secs.

  15. #15
    Master W124's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    Only if you live near a city that has these crazy rules. The world's going mad.

    Here's a question: What if you've had an older car modified to meet Euro 6?......unlikely but technically feasible.
    Yes - There is one TFL approved testing centre around London - From memory they charge around £125.

    If they determine that the NOx figure is below the appropriate Euro 4 or 6 standard, they issue you a certificate which is acceptable to Lord Kahn and his minions.
    You are then exempt from the ULEZ charge.

    The TFL website is NOT definitive - it is based on assumptions of the Euro emissions rating that was in force when your vehicle was registered, or they may not the true data for your vehicle..


    For example, my 2005 R1200RT is not Euro 3 compliant on the TFL website, yet the NOx figure published by BMW Motorrad would easily meet the Euro 6 requirement.

    BMW will issue you with a certificate of compliance, which states the true NOx figure for your vehicle. This certificate is sufficient for TFL to issue an exemption.

    BMW do not charge for this service, but I believe that other manufacturers or importers may charge.
    Last edited by W124; 16th January 2020 at 16:56.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougair View Post
    You can put your reg in the website and it will tell you in about 10 secs.
    Just checked..

    My 2016 5.0 V8 mustang is exempt, as is the wifeís 2006 5.7 V8 Jeep Hemi

    So thereís your answer....buy a massive gas guzzling V8 and youíll be in the clear🤪🤪

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by dougair View Post

    Personally, living inside the south circular the extension canít come quick enough.
    Trouble is though, you can still pay £12.50 a day and drive anywhere you like. Not a solution, just a tax.

  18. #18
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Seems like another good reason not to live anywhere near the place.
    It's just democracy.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
    Just checked..

    My 2016 5.0 V8 mustang is exempt, as is the wifeís 2006 5.7 V8 Jeep Hemi

    So thereís your answer....buy a massive gas guzzling V8 and youíll be in the clear浪浪
    I got the Mrs a Landrover Freelander 2. Quite a rare one, itís a petrol 3.2 , 6 cylinder. Fortunately euro 5 so good to go.
    Will be keeping that until the next round of rule changes.
    2001 Porsche Boxster I had would have been liable to charge, but thatís sold anyway.

    Iím tempted to put a v8 in my Hilux work vehicle, then convert to gas....
    Good truck, perfect being open back, small enough to park, tools in extra cab bit, and carry materials, but itís liable to the charge. When itís extended next year, Iíll have to pay every single day...

  20. #20
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
    Just checked..

    My 2016 5.0 V8 mustang is exempt, as is the wifeís 2006 5.7 V8 Jeep Hemi

    So thereís your answer....buy a massive gas guzzling V8 and youíll be in the clear浪浪
    Now, THAT is crazy
    Don't take my silence for agreement. I've just realised you're too stupid to argue with.

  21. #21
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    Firstly, anyone who lives in the London area has my sympathies, expensive over-congested dump in my opinion.

    Air quality in built-up areas is a concern, and I agree it needs addressing, but the logic in banning cars of a certain age is flawed. The majority of the cars on the roads are newer ones, there aren`t that many older than 10 years, and the older cars generally do low mileage, so the overall contribution of older cars to the air quality problem isn't great. Older cars often get scrapped when they fail emissions tests at MOT time, so there's a high rate of natural wastage going on that gets rid of them anyway.

    Has a credible study been carried out to estimate the impact of removing Euro 5 (and older) private cars from the roads in these areas? I`m willing to bet it hasn`t. Euro 5 cars are pretty clean-running anyway, look at the NOx spec for diesels and it only comes down by a factor of two on the latest Euro 6 models.

    Smaller engines, hybrids, stop-start technology, all have a part to play, and in the fullness of time the effects will hopefully be measurable. In the meantime, penalising/banning relatively recent Euro 5 cars from areas isn't going to have much impact.

    Most of us are part of the problem, we all want the convenience of cars and that causes traffic congestion (which is at the root of the problem) in most built-up areas. Effective public transport helps but in most areas it's woefully inadequate. We're stuck with cars, change has to come, but it's the way the change is being managed that I take issue with. It's not that long ago that we were all implicitly encouraged to own diesel cars on the basis of CO2 savings, the politicians saw this as the right flag to wave at the time, but that's a global issue that we have minimal influence on, so apart from being seen to be 'doing the right thing' there was no benefit to Britain. Concerns were raised regarding diesel particulates and NOx, but these were disregarded at the time (wrongly in my opinion). We can`t influence the CO2 global warming issue but we can influence our own local air quality, that's why the push for diesels was a mistake, but unfairly penalising folks who own older diesel cars is not the right answer. This is a political move, it's the right badge for the Sadiq Kahns of this world to be seen to be waving, so consequently we get the current crazy situation.

    Hope that clarifys my understanding and my view for Dougair and others....if not that's tough.

  22. #22
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
    Just checked..

    My 2016 5.0 V8 mustang is exempt, as is the wifeís 2006 5.7 V8 Jeep Hemi

    So thereís your answer....buy a massive gas guzzling V8 and youíll be in the clear浪浪
    Good luck to you Enoch, enjoy 'em before the politicians ban them for being too nice. Not quite my cup of tea but I can see the attraction........I love the smell of petrol in the morning

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Seems like another good reason not to live anywhere near the place.
    the funny thing about pollution is that while there is local (kerbside) PM25 etc pollution in towns and cities the countryside is not exempt and neither are areas of wilderness and beauty.
    if you look at the pollution maps of Europe you often see plumes from the continent (particularly from the low countries) move around and the coastal areas of the U.K. are often more affected than the cities.
    then there are the alpine valleys such as around Annercy, clean mountain air? no absolutely filthy the air gets trapped and the colder air puts a lid on top. it can be worse than in a big city.

    those who live outside big conurbations are misguided in their Ďclean airí smugness. it impacts everybody.

  24. #24
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    Firstly, anyone who lives in the London area has my sympathies, expensive over-congested dump in my opinion.
    Each to his own. Iíve lived all over the country...spent about 5 years in York/Leeds and 8 in Lincoln. I now live in London and love it...wouldnít choose to live anywhere else. I remember areas of Leeds that were utter dumps.

  25. #25
    Master
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    My BMW 14 plate 5 series touring was Euro 6 compliant and said so on the V5 but as it was a 2014 itís not Valid go figure

  26. #26
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    the funny thing about pollution is that while there is local (kerbside) PM25 etc pollution in towns and cities the countryside is not exempt and neither are areas of wilderness and beauty.
    if you look at the pollution maps of Europe you often see plumes from the continent (particularly from the low countries) move around and the coastal areas of the U.K. are often more affected than the cities.
    then there are the alpine valleys such as around Annercy, clean mountain air? no absolutely filthy the air gets trapped and the colder air puts a lid on top. it can be worse than in a big city.

    those who live outside big conurbations are misguided in their Ďclean airí smugness. it impacts everybody.
    I never said the countryside was exempt. But in my smug way I don't think it's as bad as some inner city crapholes.
    It's just democracy.

  27. #27
    Grand Master
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    Suggest a few of you read this, it's interesting.

    https://consult.defra.gov.uk/airqual...0AQ%20Plan.pdf

    Having read it, I`m more convinced that small diesel vehicles should be discouraged, but I'm also convinced that elimination of Euro 5 (and Euro 4) cars will have minimal impact. The real concern is the disparity between manufacturer's claimed NOx figures and the 'real world' observation. Put simply, even the latest Euro 6 diesels still produce 60% of the NOx that a Euro 3 (2000-2004) vehicle did, that surprised me.

    Penalising owners of ageing cars is good politics but it'll have minimal effect. Localised roadside air pollution problems will only be solved by electric vehicles or less vehicles. If all the Euro 4 and 5 diesels were replaced by Euro 6 overnight I`m willing to bet the 'improvements' would be too small to reliably measure.........bye-bye to ALL diesels appears to be the answer based on the report.

    Penalising older petrol vehicles makes absolutely no sense at all, no way can I see any logic for this, but again it's all down to politics.
    Last edited by walkerwek1958; 16th January 2020 at 17:58.

  28. #28
    Itís the retrospective shafting that doesnít help... Iíll stick my head above the parapet, and stand to be corrected, but Iíd say maybe 10 years ago, they sold people the dream; buy diesel , cheaper fuel, much better mpg etc.
    Now itís the fuel of the devil, more expensive than petrol, and people bought into it - diesel car the way to go. I donít know what the split is from petrol to diesel cars, but I suspect it shot up markedly.

    Of course, Iím siding with white van man, even though mines a black pick up.
    Iíll have to find another £300 a month minimum when the zone expands.
    Itís not like you can realistically get a replacement- futile buying anything diesel, electric will be future. Or maybe itís time to change career after doing it for 30 years...

  29. #29
    My wife and I got caught out on this. We accidentally paid for the day before we arrived. Got hit with the fine so we appealed since it was clearly an error and they werenít out of pocket. They initially refused our appeal but then we got a very nice personally written letter waiving the fine. Miracles do happen.

  30. #30
    Grand Master mart broad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanlad View Post
    Itís the retrospective shafting that doesnít help... Iíll stick my head above the parapet, and stand to be corrected, but Iíd say maybe 10 years ago, they sold people the dream; buy diesel , cheaper fuel, much better mpg etc.
    Now itís the fuel of the devil, more expensive than petrol, and people bought into it - diesel car the way to go. I donít know what the split is from petrol to diesel cars, but I suspect it shot up markedly.

    Of course, Iím siding with white van man, even though mines a black pick up.
    Iíll have to find another £300 a month minimum when the zone expands.
    Itís not like you can realistically get a replacement- futile buying anything diesel, electric will be future. Or maybe itís time to change career after doing it for 30 years...
    Maybe it is time to reconsider your life options i got out the cesspit thatís is London after been born there and working there all my life never felt better.
    IMO all this charge is a plaster on a a major trauma
    I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE

  31. #31
    Master Alansmithee's Avatar
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    I'm surprised that anyone living that close to London is unfamilar with the ULEZ? I live near Southport and have never owned a car and it has been hard to miss in the national media let alone the London-centric press.

  32. #32
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    I think we're all agreed that roadside air pollution in built-up areas needs to reduce, it's the way the change is being implemented (and the short timeframe) that's contentious. The powers that be are seeking political kudos by flag-waving, it's all about the 'message' rather than the hard facts.

    Much as I love my Jag 3.0 diesel I can`t see me buying another similar diesel vehicle, I think the writing's on the wall for small diesels. Better to accept higher overall CO2 output than NOx. I prefer the way a powerful diesel drives, especially with an automatic gearbox, it's a superb combination for most real-world driving and the manufacturers did great things to develop diesel cars, sadly it was the wrong path to go down.

    I resent the way that older vehicles are being hounded off the roads on spurious grounds. My car's a 2010 model and it's only done 46000 miles, plenty of life left in it and it continues to meet my needs, I do around 3500 miles/year and I don't care about the age of the car I'm seen in, I`m past all that. If I lived in Greater London I`d end up having to get rid of it. Other cities are going down the same route, Leeds is due to bring in a similar scheme shortly and again it's drawing the line at Euro5/6 vehicles despite the fact that the numbers don't support this. Initially it won't apply to private vehicles but I can see that changing eventually.

    The real nettle that needs grasping is congestion on the roads, I don`t think anyone has a viable answer to this and to me there's no point pretending otherwise. Massive investment in public transport would be needed, but there simply isn`t the political will to even consider it. State ownership and a huge level of state intervention (to push projects through) would be needed to build up to date public transport systems in most areas. A look at a 1930s rail map of West Yorkshire is depressing, most of the lines were axed many years ago, but if they still existed we'd have the basis for a local rail network to rival the London Underground.........can`t turn the clock back.
    Last edited by walkerwek1958; 16th January 2020 at 19:04.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mart broad View Post
    Maybe it is time to reconsider your life options i got out the cesspit thatís is London after been born there and working there all my life never felt better.
    IMO all this charge is a plaster on a a major trauma
    I worked in Central London for a fair few weeks of the year, for a lot of years, I have no desire to set foot near the place, and have not for the last 12 years. Good riddance to the place

  34. #34
    Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    And if youíve got a 6+ year old diesel car, it may be a good idea to flog it soon. I imagine values will soon take a plummet.
    Already done. I had a 1.6 diesel 2015 Qashqai which I sold last year because of ULEZ. Doesn't impact me much currently as I drive into London only once or twice per month on the weekend for 'pleasure' but would have hammered me when it extended to inside the A406. Lost more than I should have as I only had the car about a year before finding out about it but worth doing for the certainty.

    My brother bought a van just over a year ago and I had to hammered home beyond belief for him to get a petrol. His words "if what you're saying is true this would be all over the news. Surely people would be talking about it??". In the end he bought a petrol auto Caddy, couldn't be happier and is grateful for my belligerence.

    I did try to buy a petrol estate but the wife exercised her veto and we bought a Euro 6 GLC. In fairness the petrol GLC was £14k more at the time and would have come with the luxury tax of an added £500 per year due to the petrol model being released much later than the diesel.

  35. #35
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    I rode a classic bike around London for the distinguished gentlemenís ride. I also personally donated as much as I could and had some very kind sponsors on another forum.

    I got the ULEZ penalty charge, really took the edge off fund raising for menís health charities as it made me depressed !

  36. #36
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    If you park a diesel in some areas you also get an environment charge so a new diesel car will cost ULEZ, Con charge and diesel charge.

  37. #37
    Master W124's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hilly10 View Post
    My BMW 14 plate 5 series touring was Euro 6 compliant and said so on the V5 but as it was a 2014 it’s not Valid go figure
    That's not the end of the story - if your V5C doesn't define the CO2, NOx and particulate data, contact the BMW compliance team :

    To: EC Certificate of Conformity, V1-UK <eccoc@bmw.co.uk>
    Subject: ULEZ Exemption - R1200RT - WB10368045ZMxxxx


    Simply write to the eccoc team with your vehicle details, and they will with respond with a statement of compliance.

    The TFL website has a page for making a ULEZ exception request, where you upload the document from BMW.

    The ULEZ fairy will work her magic, and your exception letter should arrive a few weeks later.
    Last edited by W124; 16th January 2020 at 20:14.

  38. #38
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    The daft thing about all this is the fact that natural wastage of older cars, combined with market forces and the trend away from diesels, would've achieved the desired result ion a reasonable timeframe. Declaring war on certain vehicles is unnecessary, it's a dramatic political statement. Changes to road tax/benefit in kind or (perish the thought) duty on fuel would've had the desired effect, these were the type of factors that pushed everyone down the diesel route 15-20yrs ago.

    I'm always happy to tease the folks who live in Greater London and are engrossed (enslaved?) in the London Bubble, my niece is one of them, but I do sympathise with folks who are having to live with all this crap. It's wrong, and it's going to make its way into other cities because the precedent has already been set.

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    The daft thing about all this is the fact that natural wastage of older cars, combined with market forces and the trend away from diesels, would've achieved the desired result ion a reasonable timeframe. Declaring war on certain vehicles is unnecessary, it's a dramatic political statement. Changes to road tax/benefit in kind or (perish the thought) duty on fuel would've had the desired effect, these were the type of factors that pushed everyone down the diesel route 15-20yrs ago.

    I'm always happy to tease the folks who live in Greater London and are engrossed (enslaved?) in the London Bubble, my niece is one of them, but I do sympathise with folks who are having to live with all this crap. It's wrong, and it's going to make its way into other cities because the precedent has already been set.
    It should have happened sooner, then it could have not been so abrupt but people were made aware of CG exemptions for hybrid/electric since 2003, it was only ever going to go one way. You pollute:you pay up. 💰
    I have no sympathy for those who bought huge gas guzzlers, they must have known the writing was on the wall or at least owning one would come at a price.

    The only thing that bothers me is the slow pace of change in the haulage/bus/sector. You would think there would be a viable cleaner option by now.

  40. #40
    In case I missed here, check your car here.

    Warning - this has two results, youíll feel real smug or really angry.

    https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/che...-vehicle-35896

  41. #41
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hilly10 View Post
    My BMW 14 plate 5 series touring was Euro 6 compliant and said so on the V5 but as it was a 2014 itís not Valid go figure
    My 13 plate 5 touring doesnít have to pay ULEZ.
    Don't take my silence for agreement. I've just realised you're too stupid to argue with.

  42. #42
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    It should have happened sooner, then it could have not been so abrupt but people were made aware of CG exemptions for hybrid/electric since 2003, it was only ever going to go one way. You pollute:you pay up. 
    I have no sympathy for those who bought huge gas guzzlers, they must have known the writing was on the wall or at least owning one would come at a price.

    The only thing that bothers me is the slow pace of change in the haulage/bus/sector. You would think there would be a viable cleaner option by now.
    But it isn`t the gas guzzlers that are being penalised! A Euro 6 gas-guzzling diesel that does around 20mpg is OK, but a Euro 5 small-engine diesel that doers 40+mpg isn`t. In term of all pollutants the gas guzzler is doing more harm yet the poor sod with the sensible small Euro 5 hatchback is being penalised and pushed down the road of changing his vehicle when perhaps he can`t afford or doesn't want to!

    It's all too easy to get drawn into the politics of envy with all this, I can do that with the best of them, but once I calm down and engage my brain I realise that the issues are more complex and the so-called 'solution' is flawed.

  43. #43
    Master Tenko's Avatar
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    Just checked my 3.0 petrol BM, exempt.

  44. #44
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    But it isn`t the gas guzzlers that are being penalised! A Euro 6 gas-guzzling diesel that does around 20mpg is OK, but a Euro 5 small-engine diesel that doers 40+mpg isn`t. In term of all pollutants the gas guzzler is doing more harm yet the poor sod with the sensible small Euro 5 hatchback is being penalised
    So, is your point that the NOx emissions are just a small part of the equation, in that the extraction, refining, transportation of fuel to petrol stations negates the lower NOx outputs?

  45. #45
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suds View Post
    So, is your point that the NOx emissions are just a small part of the equation, in that the extraction, refining, transportation of fuel to petrol stations negates the lower NOx outputs?
    NOx levels at the roadside is, as I understand it, the primary concern that has to be addressed.

    I donít understand your questioning and I dislike any statement that starts with the word Ďsoí.

    Feel free to share your disagreement, donít be afraid to baffle me with science, last time I checked I still had the chemistry degree I earned in the 80s whilst working full- time in industry.

    Iím more concerned with the flawed logic than the environmental issues, Iím the antithesis of a tree- hugger.

  46. #46
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    18 plate E-Pace Diesel. No charges!

    Still not going there.
    It's just democracy.

  47. #47
    Grand Master
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    18 plate Caddy 1.4 petrol. No charges.

    Love the place, going next weekend

    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    18 plate E-Pace Diesel. No charges!

    Still not going there.
    Cheers,

    Ben



    ..... for I have become the Jedi of flippers


    " an extravagance is anything you buy that is of no earthly use to your wife "

  48. #48
    Looking at the big picture producing a new car must produce more pollution than continuing to use an old car however polluting it is, this is a cynical money making scheme, if ďtheyĒ were that concerned about pollution or congestion they would just ban cars completely and improve public transport.

    There must be a room full of civil servants paid to invent ways of extorting money from people who have little choice but to pay, the Dartford crossing has to be the biggest example, the toll was to pay the cost of building it, but then someone had a brainwave.

    One day they will tax air.

  49. #49
    ^^^
    Harsh but fair. Would cause chaos, but total ban would help the issue. Bar busses, taxis? Guess theyíll be exempt under TFL?
    Itís a case of pay up and pollute.
    Indeed that Dartford crossing is a total money spinner. As per your thoughts, cost to be abolished once paid for 🤣
    Might be wrong, but I thought it paid for itself in 2003, after it was completed in 1991. Cha ching.

  50. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post

    Still not going there.
    Think I just heard 10 million souls cry out in disappointment

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