Seems like another good reason not to live anywhere near the place.
Seems like another good reason not to live anywhere near the place.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
the funny thing about pollution is that while there is local (kerbside) PM25 etc pollution in towns and cities the countryside is not exempt and neither are areas of wilderness and beauty.Originally Posted by oldoakknives
Seems like another good reason not to live anywhere near the place.
if you look at the pollution maps of Europe you often see plumes from the continent (particularly from the low countries) move around and the coastal areas of the U.K. are often more affected than the cities.
then there are the alpine valleys such as around Annercy, clean mountain air? no absolutely filthy the air gets trapped and the colder air puts a lid on top. it can be worse than in a big city.
those who live outside big conurbations are misguided in their ‘clean air’ smugness. it impacts everybody.
My BMW 14 plate 5 series touring was Euro 6 compliant and said so on the V5 but as it was a 2014 it’s not Valid go figure
Suggest a few of you read this, it's interesting.
https://consult.defra.gov.uk/airqual...0AQ%20Plan.pdf
Having read it, I`m more convinced that small diesel vehicles should be discouraged, but I'm also convinced that elimination of Euro 5 (and Euro 4) cars will have minimal impact. The real concern is the disparity between manufacturer's claimed NOx figures and the 'real world' observation. Put simply, even the latest Euro 6 diesels still produce 60% of the NOx that a Euro 3 (2000-2004) vehicle did, that surprised me.
Penalising owners of ageing cars is good politics but it'll have minimal effect. Localised roadside air pollution problems will only be solved by electric vehicles or less vehicles. If all the Euro 4 and 5 diesels were replaced by Euro 6 overnight I`m willing to bet the 'improvements' would be too small to reliably measure.........bye-bye to ALL diesels appears to be the answer based on the report.
Penalising older petrol vehicles makes absolutely no sense at all, no way can I see any logic for this, but again it's all down to politics.
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 16th January 2020 at 17:58.
It’s the retrospective shafting that doesn’t help... I’ll stick my head above the parapet, and stand to be corrected, but I’d say maybe 10 years ago, they sold people the dream; buy diesel , cheaper fuel, much better mpg etc.
Now it’s the fuel of the devil, more expensive than petrol, and people bought into it - diesel car the way to go. I don’t know what the split is from petrol to diesel cars, but I suspect it shot up markedly.
Of course, I’m siding with white van man, even though mines a black pick up.
I’ll have to find another £300 a month minimum when the zone expands.
It’s not like you can realistically get a replacement- futile buying anything diesel, electric will be future. Or maybe it’s time to change career after doing it for 30 years...
My wife and I got caught out on this. We accidentally paid for the day before we arrived. Got hit with the fine so we appealed since it was clearly an error and they weren’t out of pocket. They initially refused our appeal but then we got a very nice personally written letter waiving the fine. Miracles do happen.
Maybe it is time to reconsider your life options i got out the cesspit that’s is London after been born there and working there all my life never felt better.
IMO all this charge is a plaster on a a major trauma
I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE
I'm surprised that anyone living that close to London is unfamilar with the ULEZ? I live near Southport and have never owned a car and it has been hard to miss in the national media let alone the London-centric press.
I think we're all agreed that roadside air pollution in built-up areas needs to reduce, it's the way the change is being implemented (and the short timeframe) that's contentious. The powers that be are seeking political kudos by flag-waving, it's all about the 'message' rather than the hard facts.
Much as I love my Jag 3.0 diesel I can`t see me buying another similar diesel vehicle, I think the writing's on the wall for small diesels. Better to accept higher overall CO2 output than NOx. I prefer the way a powerful diesel drives, especially with an automatic gearbox, it's a superb combination for most real-world driving and the manufacturers did great things to develop diesel cars, sadly it was the wrong path to go down.
I resent the way that older vehicles are being hounded off the roads on spurious grounds. My car's a 2010 model and it's only done 46000 miles, plenty of life left in it and it continues to meet my needs, I do around 3500 miles/year and I don't care about the age of the car I'm seen in, I`m past all that. If I lived in Greater London I`d end up having to get rid of it. Other cities are going down the same route, Leeds is due to bring in a similar scheme shortly and again it's drawing the line at Euro5/6 vehicles despite the fact that the numbers don't support this. Initially it won't apply to private vehicles but I can see that changing eventually.
The real nettle that needs grasping is congestion on the roads, I don`t think anyone has a viable answer to this and to me there's no point pretending otherwise. Massive investment in public transport would be needed, but there simply isn`t the political will to even consider it. State ownership and a huge level of state intervention (to push projects through) would be needed to build up to date public transport systems in most areas. A look at a 1930s rail map of West Yorkshire is depressing, most of the lines were axed many years ago, but if they still existed we'd have the basis for a local rail network to rival the London Underground.........can`t turn the clock back.
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 16th January 2020 at 19:04.
I worked in Central London for a fair few weeks of the year, for a lot of years, I have no desire to set foot near the place, and have not for the last 12 years. Good riddance to the place
That's not the end of the story - if your V5C doesn't define the CO2, NOx and particulate data, contact the BMW compliance team :
To: EC Certificate of Conformity, V1-UK <eccoc@bmw.co.uk>
Subject: ULEZ Exemption - R1200RT - WB10368045ZMxxxx
Simply write to the eccoc team with your vehicle details, and they will with respond with a statement of compliance.
The TFL website has a page for making a ULEZ exception request, where you upload the document from BMW.
The ULEZ fairy will work her magic, and your exception letter should arrive a few weeks later.
Last edited by W124; 16th January 2020 at 20:14.
My 13 plate 5 touring doesn’t have to pay ULEZ.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
The daft thing about all this is the fact that natural wastage of older cars, combined with market forces and the trend away from diesels, would've achieved the desired result ion a reasonable timeframe. Declaring war on certain vehicles is unnecessary, it's a dramatic political statement. Changes to road tax/benefit in kind or (perish the thought) duty on fuel would've had the desired effect, these were the type of factors that pushed everyone down the diesel route 15-20yrs ago.
I'm always happy to tease the folks who live in Greater London and are engrossed (enslaved?) in the London Bubble, my niece is one of them, but I do sympathise with folks who are having to live with all this crap. It's wrong, and it's going to make its way into other cities because the precedent has already been set.
It should have happened sooner, then it could have not been so abrupt but people were made aware of CG exemptions for hybrid/electric since 2003, it was only ever going to go one way. You pollute:you pay up. 💰
I have no sympathy for those who bought huge gas guzzlers, they must have known the writing was on the wall or at least owning one would come at a price.
The only thing that bothers me is the slow pace of change in the haulage/bus/sector. You would think there would be a viable cleaner option by now.
But it isn`t the gas guzzlers that are being penalised! A Euro 6 gas-guzzling diesel that does around 20mpg is OK, but a Euro 5 small-engine diesel that doers 40+mpg isn`t. In term of all pollutants the gas guzzler is doing more harm yet the poor sod with the sensible small Euro 5 hatchback is being penalised and pushed down the road of changing his vehicle when perhaps he can`t afford or doesn't want to!
It's all too easy to get drawn into the politics of envy with all this, I can do that with the best of them, but once I calm down and engage my brain I realise that the issues are more complex and the so-called 'solution' is flawed.
Just checked my 3.0 petrol BM, exempt.
So, is your point that the NOx emissions are just a small part of the equation, in that the extraction, refining, transportation of fuel to petrol stations negates the lower NOx outputs?
In case I missed here, check your car here.
Warning - this has two results, you’ll feel real smug or really angry.
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/che...-vehicle-35896
I never said the countryside was exempt. But in my smug way I don't think it's as bad as some inner city crapholes.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote