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Thread: How times change.....

  1. #1
    Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    How times change.....



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  2. #2
    Master
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    Holy moly! I never realised the speedmaster was ever that cheap!

    If only we knew then what we know now eh!?


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  3. #3
    Craftsman
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    US Soldiers stationed in Europe used to buy now very rare Rolex models for less than that.

    I remember seining one valued at $80,000 that the soldier paid $150 for.

    He said he was the lowest rank soldier and it was a months wage.

    Today a months wage for a basic soldier would not even cover the deposit for the modern equivalent.

  4. #4
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    My flightmaster was originally purchased in a USAF PX in Germany. I have no idea of the original price but it would have been a lot cheaper than the modern equivalent I should think (in relative terms)
    Watches were a tool before the became the luxury item / collectable they are today.

  5. #5
    Master
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    I wonder how much the Seiko is worth today?

  6. #6
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwest76 View Post
    I wonder how much the Seiko is worth today?
    I would have thought that it would be not much more than the original sale price

  7. #7
    Craftsman
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    Anyone any idea what year this advert is from?

  8. #8
    Master snowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zolawinston View Post
    Anyone any idea what year this advert is from?
    Early to mid 70s, I'd guess. Post decimalisation, for sure!

    If we assume 1974, that would equate to around £2000 now, about what a used Speedmaster would cost you.

    M
    Last edited by snowman; 15th January 2020 at 11:34.

  9. #9
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    £158 is likely to have been a lot of money at the time. What is spectacular is the relative cost of both watches but until we know of the year it is difficult to expand.
    Also, the market for a brand like Omega developed into luxury territory when good quality cheap watches became available, in the late 80s/early 90s. Before that You had 'traditional' luxury (PP, AP, VC, etc.), Rolex (luxury but tough, very aspirational), cheaper but high quality Swiss (like Omega) and cheaper Swiss (Tissot).
    Don't take my silence for agreement. I've just realised you're too stupid to argue with.

  10. #10
    Another difference worth noting is scalability - it turned out to be much cheaper and easier to build more quartz than mechanical watches.

  11. #11
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deeez Nuuutz View Post
    Holy moly! I never realised the speedmaster was ever that cheap!

    If only we knew then what we know now eh!?


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    You are going to feint when you realise how much a house cost in 1975.

  12. #12
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    Assuming mid-70s, inflation calculator puts this at just over £1300, which makes sense for the Speedy. Not sure the Seiko is as good an investment though.

  13. #13
    Craftsman
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    Where did I leave that time machine

  14. #14
    Grand Master
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    In 1975 my parents bought a new-build three bedroom semi with two reception rooms, separate garage and gardens front and back for....£3k. The detached was £5k and out of their reach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    You are going to feint when you realise how much a house cost in 1975.

  15. #15
    Master snowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
    In 1975 my parents bought a new-build three bedroom semi with two reception rooms, separate garage and gardens front and back for....£3k. The detached was £5k and out of their reach.
    House prices have always been relative, though - My Mum and Dad paid £10,000 for theirs in Dorset in 1972 (3 bed, 'linked detatched' - Garages join to the next house).

    Having sold the previous one for £11,000 in Surrey, my dad bought a brand new Ford Cortina with the difference (having only just learnt to drive at the age of 40!)

    Houses have been a better bet than watches, though - My Mum still lives there and the houses sell for around £350K now, whereas the inflation calculator says 10K then is about £140K now... You can get a used Speedy for £2K...

    M
    Last edited by snowman; 15th January 2020 at 11:33.

  16. #16
    Master Tetlee's Avatar
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    Quite amusing that the digital Seiko was more expensive than the moonwatch.

  17. #17
    Master snowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tetlee View Post
    Quite amusing that the digital Seiko was more expensive than the moonwatch.
    I remember a friend getting a digital watch (you had to press a button to illuminate the red LED display) for a birthday - Must have been a big expense for his parents at the time.

    Bloody horrible lump of plastic, I thought - But then I hated Chopper bikes too!

    M

  18. #18
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    Which is why I thought house prices would blow the guys mind if a £1300>>£2000 (in real terms) Speedy price difference seems amazing.

  19. #19
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian View Post
    Assuming mid-70s, inflation calculator puts this at just over £1300, which makes sense for the Speedy. Not sure the Seiko is as good an investment though.
    Mid-70s was a time of very high inflation, around 10-15% if I remember rightly. To accurately compare the price in todays money would require the exact year of the advert to be available.

    Houses prices are at least double the mid-70s value in real terms, but interest rates are far lower and that affects affordability. For me, the most alarming statistic regarding watch prices is the increases since 2005. My December 2004 price list has the 3570.50 Moonwatch listed at £1575, nowadays it's £4k ish. According to the data inflation over the period accounts for a 50% price rise to 'only' £2377......make of that what you will!

  20. #20
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    Wow. The Speedmaster was cheaper than the Seiko.

  21. #21
    Worth noting that quartz was a new and relatively expensive technology, with huge research investment costs to recoup in outs early days, whereas mechanical watches used older well embedded tech and costs.
    It's just a matter of time...

  22. #22

    How times change.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Deeez Nuuutz View Post
    Holy moly! I never realised the speedmaster was ever that cheap!

    If only we knew then what we know now eh!?


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    I donít think that the point, as you have to factor in the time value of money and exchange rates.

    Itís the fact that the digital watch was more expensive than the speedy.

    Now the digital watch is 400 times cheaper than the speedy.

  23. #23
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    It's easy with hindsight, but I wonder which people would choose if they didn't know what they know now. The Quartz might even look the better buy as the Speedy was old hat even then 👍

  24. #24
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    It's easy with hindsight, but I wonder which people would choose if they didn't know what they know now. The Quartz might even look the better buy as the Speedy was old hat even then 
    Correct, but the younger folks struggle to grasp that. In the mid-70s the future for mechanical watches looked bleak, nostalgia wasn`t a factor, everyone was forward-thinking and the new quartz technology was very attractive. The moon landing was fading into history too, folks had lost interest.

  25. #25
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    Mid-70s was a time of very high inflation, around 10-15% if I remember rightly. To accurately compare the price in todays money would require the exact year of the advert to be available.

    Houses prices are at least double the mid-70s value in real terms, but interest rates are far lower and that affects affordability. For me, the most alarming statistic regarding watch prices is the increases since 2005. My December 2004 price list has the 3570.50 Moonwatch listed at £1575, nowadays it's £4k ish. According to the data inflation over the period accounts for a 50% price rise to 'only' £2377......make of that what you will!
    Absolutely true...assuming the advert is 1975 is very different from assuming 1979 in terms of inflation.

    Totally agree with you about the luxury watch market since the 2000s. I started watch buying/selling in the late 90ís and the price rises have been incredible. I canít pinpoint the exact time the majority of the price increase occurred...the 2007/8 crash seemed to propel luxury prices higher. Whereas Rolex seem to do the yearly increment to prices, I seem to remember a big push from Breitling and Omega to raise their RRP in quite a short space of time to try and position the brands alongside Rolex, often accompanied by in-house movements (eg Breitling shifting from ETA movements in Navitimers to the B01).

    Thinking about my new watch purchases, I bought a new Navitimer in 2005 and the RRP was £3200. I subsequently sold this and eventually bought a Navitimer B01 in 2014 when the RRP was about £5800.

  26. #26
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    Hindsight is a wonderful thing though...since 2004, I must have bought and sold a good 10 sports Rolex watches..subs, SeaDweller, Milgaus, GMTs. Wish I’d just kept them all! Worst move was selling a SeaDweller for £1800 in about 2005.

  27. #27
    Craftsman
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    being a young man in the early to late 70s I had other things on my mind watches was not one :-) there are thousands of things I should have bought back then that would have made me a fortune now, but the only thing I own now from the 70s is a car bought in 1974!! good judgement no just blind obsessiveness .

  28. #28
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    Mid-70s was a time of very high inflation, around 10-15% if I remember rightly. To accurately compare the price in todays money would require the exact year of the advert to be available.

    Houses prices are at least double the mid-70s value in real terms, but interest rates are far lower and that affects affordability. For me, the most alarming statistic regarding watch prices is the increases since 2005. My December 2004 price list has the 3570.50 Moonwatch listed at £1575, nowadays it's £4k ish. According to the data inflation over the period accounts for a 50% price rise to 'only' £2377......make of that what you will!
    The government have been fiddling the inflation data. We live in times of much higher inflation than the CPI would suggest as is demonstrated by the examples in this topic.

  29. #29
    Grand Master jwg663's Avatar
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    A bog-standard (the only kind available, TBF) colour TV was about £350 or £400 in the early- to mid-seventies.

    Average gross weekly wage in 1973, from Hansard:

    https://api.parliament.uk/historic-h...8/average-wage

    Average Wage



    Mr. Thomas Cox asked the Secretary of State for Employment what is the present average wage paid in Great Britain.
    ßMr. Chichester-Clark The latest available comprehensive information on average earnings is obtained from the New Earnings Survey and relates to April 1973. The following are estimates from that survey of average gross weekly earnings in April 1973 in Great Britain of full-time adults whose pay for the survey reference period was not affected by absence:
    Average gross weekly earnings
    £
    Full-time manual men (aged 21 and over) 38.10
    Full-time manual women (aged 18 and over) 19.70
    ______

    ​Jim.

  30. #30
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    The government have been fiddling the inflation data. We live in times of much higher inflation than the CPI would suggest as is demonstrated by the examples in this topic.
    This feels intuitively right to me. My typical shopping basket is 10% more in past year.

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  31. #31
    Master Swissz's Avatar
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    It isn't that different than today! In reality the price in absolute terms hasn't changed:

    Back in 1960 1 GBP = 12 CHF! (today 1 GBP = 1.26 CHF)

    So, the price in the 1960s was around 1900 CHF for a Professional Speedmaster. Today the equivalent is about twice that, around 4700 CHF

    in the 60s, the "minimal" salary was around 1500 CHF. Today, the equivalent is 4000-4200 CHF

    So, in reality, it takes the same amount of "work" to buy a Speedmaster Professional in 1960s and today (at least in Switzerland!)

  32. #32
    There are contemporary parallels.

    Last edited by crimsondynamo; 15th January 2020 at 20:33. Reason: Better photo

  33. #33
    Craftsman
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    My father bought a speedmaster at the Naafi in Germany for the princely sum of £30 in 1962, it had dauphine hands. He sold it in the 70'ies for £30 as it was not working( he dived in it and thought 30m depth rating was sufficient). Have lost count of the number of times I wish he had kept it.

  34. #34
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefmcd View Post
    This feels intuitively right to me. My typical shopping basket is 10% more in past year.

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    Your gut feel is spot on. See. http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate...flation-charts

  35. #35
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    I'm kinda sick of being right.... ;-)

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  36. #36
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Hedonic adjustments. If it tastes 10% better, it can be counted as the equivalent of 10% cheaper... ;-)

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Swissz View Post
    So, in reality, it takes the same amount of "work" to buy a Speedmaster Professional in 1960s and today (at least in Switzerland!)
    The following article has been posted before (apologies to whoever first posted it) but I think youíll enjoy the read, especially the chapter before the conclusion

    https://medium.com/trends-watch/how-...s-a2c5e9aeb329


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  38. #38
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post


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    Not just Omega -

    My Dad’s Rolex Air-King-Date from 1978: now passed on to me..


  39. #39
    Master Christian's Avatar
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    Always surprised me how bare those old Rolex boxes were. They kind of presented the watch on a piece of cardboard in a not very plush wooden box. I do like the old hand written receipts though...much better than shopping for an expensive watch and getting a till and credit card receipt stapled together.

  40. #40
    Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartynJC (UK) View Post
    Not just Omega -

    My Dad’s Rolex Air-King-Date from 1978: now passed on to me..

    I had one of those with a purple dial. Superb little watch

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

  41. #41
    Journeyman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt.D View Post
    The following article has been posted before (apologies to whoever first posted it) but I think youíll enjoy the read, especially the chapter before the conclusion

    https://medium.com/trends-watch/how-...s-a2c5e9aeb329


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    Had not come across this before. Definitely food for thought!

  42. #42
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartynJC (UK) View Post
    Not just Omega -

    My Dadís Rolex Air-King-Date from 1978: now passed on to me..


    Fantastic keepsake of a moment in time, with all the memories that come with it.

  43. #43
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by xellos99 View Post
    US Soldiers stationed in Europe used to buy now very rare Rolex models for less than that.

    I remember seining one valued at $80,000 that the soldier paid $150 for.

    He said he was the lowest rank soldier and it was a months wage.

    Today a months wage for a basic soldier would not even cover the deposit for the modern equivalent.

    I think youíre referring to this video.

    He paid $120 in 1960, and it was valued at $65/75,000.

    Was pretty funny at the end, when he said he was speechless, as heíd have been happy if it had been valued at $1,500! 😂

    https://youtu.be/li0mRLcGbU8

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    It's easy with hindsight, but I wonder which people would choose if they didn't know what they know now. The Quartz might even look the better buy as the Speedy was old hat even then 
    I bought that very Seiko in 1976 for £165 (I still have the receipt, the watch is long gone), at the time LCD quartz watches were the latest novelty and this was the first LCD chronograph on the market. Of course I would have preferred
    the Omega Marine Chronometer Megaquartz, I believe that was about £450 at the time, a Speedmaster wasn't even considered.

    In 1981 I bought a Milgauss 1019 (which I now realise had probably been sitting in the AD's window for at least 5 years) I remember getting fed up with the lack of a date, the fat case and the stamped aluminium hands. I was pleased when
    the dealer kindly let me trade up to a Datejust 16234, a far more elegant timepiece!

    Hindsight is indeed a wonderful thing!

  45. #45
    Craftsman martyloveswatches's Avatar
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    I bought SKX011 (orange, jdm) for 135Ä before 2 yrs...now is double or even triple (?!)

    I mean, really Seiko...or comparing my sarx with new coctail line, sarx is just a better watch and new cocktail with 4Rxx is more expensive...
    little cosmetics and marketing and double prices, seiko is not a best buy anymore

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  46. #46
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt.D View Post
    The following article has been posted before (apologies to whoever first posted it) but I think youíll enjoy the read, especially the chapter before the conclusion

    https://medium.com/trends-watch/how-...s-a2c5e9aeb329


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Inflation is everywhere you take the trouble to look. Apart from the CPI data.

  47. #47
    That is a lovely watch MJC. Priceless.

    To me there is something special about handwritten receipts rather than printed till receipts.

    A few years ago I read that PP still write out receipts. If I win the lotto I may get to experience this.

  48. #48
    Master RustyBin5's Avatar
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    Honestly if I had that from my Dad doubt Iíd own many more watches. Wonderful.

  49. #49
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    Early to mid 70s, I'd guess. Post decimalisation, for sure!

    If we assume 1974, that would equate to around £2000 now, about what a used Speedmaster would cost you.

    M
    The Seiko is a 0634 5019 released in 1975, the worlds first lcd chronograph, Iíve had several in the past, really well built, from a time before lcd and quartz got cheap and almost disposable. Good ones are worth a few hundred pounds these days.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  50. #50
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    If we assume the Speedmaster is a 145.022-71T which was sold through to the mid 70ís, that very watch today with that bracelet is is a good £4.5k+ and increasing, like houses some items will outstrip inflation..

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