I was wondering if anyone had experience or insights into electromagnetic shielding a home or a room?
Any suggestions as to reading also appreciated.
With best wishes,
AP.
I was wondering if anyone had experience or insights into electromagnetic shielding a home or a room?
Any suggestions as to reading also appreciated.
With best wishes,
AP.
https://www.lessemf.com/
Regards
V
We have just completed an EMC test facility at work. How much money do you have to spend?
What are you trying to achieve?
Tinfoil hats would be much cheaper
Why?
The most pernicious sources of EMI in your home will be... er... in your home... Potentially dozens of devices - even LED light bulbs. So what's being protected from what?
Thanks for the responses.
Vertex, I'd not seen that; thank you.
Scottbombedout and Earlofsodbury, there is a mobile phone mast nearby and quite a lot of wifi. In addition, much of the building is glass.
The intention is to reduce such exposure. This is also advised by my medical doctor.
As to how much to spent, I think it more of reducing exposure perhaps by screening the bedroom in particular and cost effective steps in the study and even living room.
It's a rented property abroad so there would be limits to what could be done. Eventually, I'd also like to do things to home in the UK.
Is it for them or is it a service the are selling?Originally Posted by scottbombedout
It is for us in the testing of electrical equipment in defence applications why?
Last edited by scottbombedout; 11th January 2020 at 16:10.
We Outsource a fair bit of EMC testing.
I think W.H.O. Is a good reliable source:
https://www.who.int/peh-emf/about/Wh...en/index1.html
All papers with incriminating finding are from very dodgy journals, i.e. with a weak peer reviewing body.
Personally, believe that even if there is an effect, it must be so minimal not to be picked up by one of the thousands of scientific studies on the topic.
Don’t waste your money, and I would seriously question your doctor as there is no evidence that it’s harmful. I would be very surprised if they were actually GMC registered giving that advice.
OP does your ‘medical doctor’ have a primary medical qualification such as MBBS or MBChB and could I ask what specialty they practice in, i.e. general practice etc.?
He's very well qualified, apparently.
Ah, orthopaedics!He's very well qualified, apparently.
Buy shungite and place it In every room. It apparently absorbs the waves.
How does placing carbon in every room absorb the waves?
What waves?
Are we talking EM?
How much does it absorb? What frequency?
Or are we talking water type waves?
Does it filter crustaceans too?!
[Please go back to school and learn about real science peeps].
I've got no idea I obviously don't do it !
It’s ok, I don’t like to eat lobsters.
Just googled, apparently scientific research shows shungite absorbs electromagnetic radiation.
I rarely contribute to the forum but this is a topic I know a tiny bit about.
I cannot offer the OP any advice on full EM shielding but I have just co-invented quite a nice way of absorbing part of the EM spectrum, namely S, X and L band radar using quite clever coatings
The aim being to make windfarms "invisible" to these radar bands.
Before anyone calls BS, this coating is now commercialised by Trelleborg; see here: https://www.trelleborg.com/en/applie...nagement/frame.
That’s some impressive work right there. Dunno why but when I was reading it I had s mental image of polarized glass filtering out “stuff”. Always admire tech like this.
Hi RustyThat’s some impressive work right there. Dunno why but when I was reading it I had s mental image of polarized glass filtering out “stuff”. Always admire tech like this.
Thanks, always good to see research get out of the lab and into the real world.
As Raffe rightly points out in the post below, such coatings are aimed at making civil or military flights safer in the vicinity of windfarms and to help enable the permission to build.
Gary
I don't think anybody suggests that electromagnetic radiation doesn't exist or isn't measurable. The interference with flight radar is a known problem and I have been involved in a project to use drones for measuring radiation interference, attempting to making building permissions for windfarms both speedier as well as cheaper.
On the other side we have the tinfoil fraction, who are either outright deluded or are just trying to make a profit from the deluded.
Hi Raffe
Our RAM materials aim to absorb specific wavelengths, by up to about 35db, and have been demonstrated to work well on pylons up to 40m in height.
I appreciate that this is quite small-scale nowadays but we can model what happens with larger structures, of course.
We are also working on making the turbine blades "invisible ". We can do this easily but integrating our coatings into the blade manufacturing process, with current blades up to ~106m in length, being the challenge.
Anyway, nice to know that you can use drones to measure the radar signatures. If my colleagues need to carry out such testing, I know who to come to !
Sorry to the OP for going off-topic.
Regards
Gary
Sorry but I moved on, if needed could put you in touch with the people who I was working with at the time but don't think you need my help as such drone applications are quite mainstream nowadays.
Thanks for the offer. Will see what testing needs to be done post blade coating development, in the next 4-6 months.
Gary
My knowledge of Star Trek is hazy but weren't the Trelleborg banished by the Nibble Pibblies?
Good to see they have bounced back.
If it gives you peace of mind, foil backed plasterboard will do a pretty decent job. There are also RF blocking paints and fabrics available, and whatever they build Tesco Extra supermarkets out of.
Edit - or get some of these:
Last edited by Mr Curta; 13th January 2020 at 20:47.
For the sake of curiosity, what homeopathic practices are you referring to that have a scientific evidence confirmation ?
The very foundations of the therapy (infinite dilutions) have been debunked. A major French immunologist lost his reputation on it; Luc Montagnier, who discovered HIV, lost his credibility when he tried to continue Benveniste’s researches.
I am not saying we understand everything about molecular biology, far from it. But there is a difference between not understanding -and therefore not being able to apply a theory that withstands experimentation- and pulling a theory out of thin air that fails at the first hurdle.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Scientific evidence for homeopathy? OP are you the renowned scientist Prince Charles in disguise?
Can you please share the evidence for homeopathy?
I’m not aware of any at all in a peer reviewed medical journal so this would be quite a revelation.
AP talks about practices. What I find interesting in homeopathy is that it considers each patient as an individual (instead of relying on statistical medicine), and will seek to determine the causes rather than treat the symptoms.
It is also this approach that acts as an obstacle to our current scientific validation, because patients cannot be 'randomised' and consequently a 'control group' is virtually impossible.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
It has been proven over and over to not work, and the theory behind it to be completely implausible.
Most conventional medicine looks to treat the cause not the symptoms btw, from antibiotics to immunotherapies. With regard to individualisation, it’s not necessary if they all have the same infection or cancer type, as you are treating the disease.
Interestingly in oncology newer therapies are targeted to specific mutations/ tumour types. In fact the latest advances like BiTE and CAR T utilise each individual’s own immune system to destroy cancer cells. CAR T is a truly individualised medicine made for each patient.
This is a watch forum. We as individuals will spend very significant portions of our income on out moded mechanical timepieces in the belief that they are superior to a cheap plastic quartz watch. We do this knowing that in every scientifically measurable way the plastic watch is better.
I would suggest that if someone here chooses to believe in alternative therapies, despite the fact that every scientific study has proven them to be ineffective, we as a community are not the best placed to pour scorn.
Instead we should be better placed to understand why someone may want to disregard all the evidence and embrace the woo. I mean, I [-]think[/-] know all the alternative stuff is guff, and i think it's lunacy to trust your health to it. But I also know the F91-W is better than any of my pricier horological acquisitions, I know spending on them was lunacy, but I still did it.
False equivalence - everyone knows fancy wristwatches are where prestige jewellery and excellent mechanical engineering meet - no-one at-all pretends they are more accurate, better value or more convenient than modern alternatives.
Homeopathy pretends nonsense pseudoscience is a valid alternative to proper medical care. People have died directly as a result of this delusion - from conditions as treatable as diabetes, and many more have suffered shorter lives than they might have - e.g. refusing cancer treatments in favour of homeopathy.
If we entertain quackery like this, we not only promote homeopathy, but in the minds of the simple and credulous we validate other madness like the anti-vaccination lunacy.
Tolerance should stop where harmful delusions start...
Agree with the above:
The difference is making money from people’s fears and illness, preying on the vulnerable and gullible. Also the word alternative implies foregoing actual proven medicine. Buying an expensive watch doesn’t harm you or cause you to stop something that helps you.
It’s a multi billion dollar, unregulated, industry that at best peddles ineffective but harmless wares (at least homeopathy just leaves you a bit better hydrated). At worse it actively harms patients who forgo proven therapies (e.g. private stem cell transplants for arthritis and autism allowed through a regulatory loophole), or Andrew Wakefield (who should be in prison).
Steve Jobs and Barry Sheene are just 2 high profile examples of people who sadly got suckered into the lies and false science.
Sorry for not keeping to watches but unless these beliefs are challenged then more people will be harmed. Back to ogling watches for me now...
You both misunderstand my point.
I do not dispute that alternative therapies are complete bunkum. If they were not the "alternative" moniker would be dropped.
I see no harm in people undergoing these "treatments", if they truly believe then there may be some physcological or placebo benefits.
For example, I answered the OPs request telling him how to build a Faraday cage to block radiowaves. I also made it clear that it's a waste of time, money and effort.
But if the OP has the time, money and effort to waste and it makes him happy then let him get on with it - provided he is clearly told that he's chasing a fantasy. It won't do him any harm.
This is little different to spending income on an expensive watch. We all know the cheapie is better, that it makes no logical sense to throw money at the expensive trinket, but we do it anyway, because it makes us feel good. And feeling good is all that matters in this life.
I would never advocate that alternative medicine is used instead of proven medicine, or should interfere with it.
You do realise your last 2 paragraphs contradict each other, don’t you ? :D
Seriously, the director of my doctorate was the first man to realise a bone marrow transplant between unrelated patients. He wrote a book called ‘L’homme qui voulait être guéri’ (the man who wanted to be cured) which was a novel, a pamphlet against statistical medical care, and a book where all characters were thinly disguised real personnel from the 2 cancer hospitals in Villejuif. I know that was almost 40 years ago, and science has come leaps and bound since. But there are still many things we don’t understand so I am always careful not to dismiss out of hand what hasn’t received a thorough but different explanation.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
For Homeopathy to work would require everything we know about the physical laws of the universe to be wrong - none of our models could be true at any level.
They do deliberately, I guess to make the point. Science is not one dimensional unlike the belief required for homeopathy. Some diseases are homogenous and can be treated the same in everyone, some require personalised care. You clearly work in the same field as me so I assume you agree that theories and ideas are tested with an open mind and either proved and built on, or dismissed.
I am well aware of the difficulties of conducting studies that fall outside of ‘statistical medical care’. It’s still very possible to prove efficacy and safety though.
Look at CAR T and the development of a truly personalised medicine, which amazingly still managed to show it actually works... unlike any alternative therapy.
I totally agree that we do not have all the answers, and that nothing should be dismissed. Defending homeopathy however is simply denying a century and more of research showing its utterly useless... can I ask what your interest is in it?
Might I suggest we are in the presence of at least one chess-playing pigeon in this thread...
Just five more posts and you’ll be able to see a Grandmaster at work
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
Jacques Benveniste lost his reputation trying to demonstrate that water that had been in contact with a molecule kept a ‘memory’ of that contact. It didn’t stand up to scrutiny.
Then Luc Montagnier set up to continue JB’s work because he claimed that he had observed results that were what JB predicted they would be.
I believe it’s codswallop but I am open to being proven wrong.
Those 2 top researchers did not become stupid incompetents overnight. So it could be the Illuminati that made them do it, or they observed something that they could not measure or explain. Again, I don’t think they got it right but I do believe we’ve got some way to go before we really understand what’s going on at the molecular and sub molecular levels in biology.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
They were subject to a BBC documentary about it - it was quite interesting but because they had an answer and were trying to get the science to fit it...
Run that past me again...
So it could be the Illuminati that made them do it, or they observed something that they could not measure or explain. Again, I don’t think they got it right but I do believe we’ve got some way to go before we really understand what’s going on at the molecular and sub molecular levels in biology.
There are phenomenons that are disrupted by the attempts at measuring them. Quantic physics applied to molecular biology, but without an understanding (unlike quantic phenomenons that are theorised).
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
It’s quantum physics. Any examples you could highlight to us?
No. It's old for me, and even when it wasn't I was not sure to have understood what LM meant. But I know he published, and was burnt at the stake for his conclusions. I do not know whether what he observed was validated, or not.
And yes, quantum physics is one example I gave where measure will affect the phenomenon that you're trying to measure (sorry, French term is physique quantique, hence my mistake). For example, putting a microphone in a room to record a sound will affect the sound in a very small way, as some sound waves will be absorbed by the measuring device and others will bounce around the mike where they wouldn't otherwise. Completely insignificant on a macro scale, but we are talking of molecular level scale. I am sure there are plenty of better examples.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
You are a bit behind the times - because people who understand Quantum physics have demolished that idea, I believe the quacks have moved onto nano-particles as "the answer" (Nuclear power was the answer before quantum physics).
I have left the field quite a few years ago. And I have genuinely no special interest in homeopathy as I agree it hasn’t been proven to work. I just wondered what AP meant by homeopathic practices and, without his answer, found myself in the position to either pile on or try to see if indeed there was anything scientifically admissible that could come out of a debate, and I chose the later.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
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