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Thread: Electromagnetic Shielding

  1. #1
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    Electromagnetic Shielding

    I was wondering if anyone had experience or insights into electromagnetic shielding a home or a room?
    Any suggestions as to reading also appreciated.

    With best wishes,

    AP.

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  3. #3
    We have just completed an EMC test facility at work. How much money do you have to spend?
    What are you trying to achieve?

  4. #4
    Master Harry Smith's Avatar
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    Tinfoil hats would be much cheaper

  5. #5
    Craftsman earlofsodbury's Avatar
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    Why?

    The most pernicious sources of EMI in your home will be... er... in your home... Potentially dozens of devices - even LED light bulbs. So what's being protected from what?

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the responses.
    Vertex, I'd not seen that; thank you.

    Scottbombedout and Earlofsodbury, there is a mobile phone mast nearby and quite a lot of wifi. In addition, much of the building is glass.
    The intention is to reduce such exposure. This is also advised by my medical doctor.
    As to how much to spent, I think it more of reducing exposure perhaps by screening the bedroom in particular and cost effective steps in the study and even living room.
    It's a rented property abroad so there would be limits to what could be done. Eventually, I'd also like to do things to home in the UK.

  7. #7
    Master Alansmithee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.Pottinger View Post

    The intention is to reduce such exposure. This is also advised by my medical doctor.
    If this is the medical advice they are giving you - ask to see their qualifications because it is pseudoscience.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by scottbombedout View Post
    We have just completed an EMC test facility at work. How much money do you have to spend?
    What are you trying to achieve?
    Is it for them or is it a service the are selling?

  9. #9
    Craftsman earlofsodbury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alansmithee View Post
    If this is the medical advice they are giving you - ask to see their qualifications because it is pseudoscience.
    Yep. This smells of chiropracter or homeopath...

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    He's very well qualified. There are also others who advise it. Nonetheless, your views on it being an issue are well noted.
    In any case, I remain interested in suggestions.

  11. #11
    Master Alansmithee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.Pottinger View Post
    He's very well qualified. There are also others who advise it. Nonetheless, your views on it being an issue are well noted.
    In any case, I remain interested in suggestions.
    Well cranks advise it - nobody seriously- if you go down this then what is your banana strategy?

  12. #12
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    Duplicate
    Last edited by Alansmithee; 11th January 2020 at 15:45.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alansmithee View Post
    Well cranks advise it - nobody seriously- if you go down this then what is your banana strategy?
    Banana max 20 degrees bending, starting 25mm from the center. Why are you asking?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Is it for them or is it a service the are selling?
    It is for us in the testing of electrical equipment in defence applications why?
    Last edited by scottbombedout; 11th January 2020 at 16:10.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Banana max 20 degrees bending, starting 25mm from the center. Why are you asking?
    I was reminded of Beverly Hills Cop...

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    Quote Originally Posted by A.Pottinger View Post
    I was wondering if anyone had experience or insights into electromagnetic shielding a home or a room?
    Any suggestions as to reading also appreciated.

    With best wishes,

    AP.
    I think W.H.O. Is a good reliable source:

    https://www.who.int/peh-emf/about/Wh...en/index1.html

    All papers with incriminating finding are from very dodgy journals, i.e. with a weak peer reviewing body.

    Personally, believe that even if there is an effect, it must be so minimal not to be picked up by one of the thousands of scientific studies on the topic.

  17. #17
    Don’t waste your money, and I would seriously question your doctor as there is no evidence that it’s harmful. I would be very surprised if they were actually GMC registered giving that advice.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by scottbombedout View Post
    It is for us in the testing of electrical equipment in defence applications why?
    We Outsource a fair bit of EMC testing.

  19. #19
    OP does your ‘medical doctor’ have a primary medical qualification such as MBBS or MBChB and could I ask what specialty they practice in, i.e. general practice etc.?

  20. #20
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j0hnbarker View Post
    OP does your ‘medical doctor’ have a primary medical qualification such as MBBS or MBChB and could I ask what specialty they practice in, i.e. general practice etc.?
    He's very well qualified, apparently.


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    Buy shungite and place it In every room. It apparently absorbs the waves.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Drago View Post
    Buy shungite and place it In every room. It apparently absorbs the waves.
    How does placing carbon in every room absorb the waves?

    What waves?

    Are we talking EM?

    How much does it absorb? What frequency?

    Or are we talking water type waves?

    Does it filter crustaceans too?!

    [Please go back to school and learn about real science peeps].

  23. #23
    Master Kirk280's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alansmithee View Post
    If this is the medical advice they are giving you - ask to see their qualifications because it is pseudoscience.
    Brave move mate. The level of ignorance already revealed in this thread reminds me of a certain BP Brexit thread!

  24. #24
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk280 View Post
    Brave move mate. The level of ignorance already revealed in this thread reminds me of a certain BP Brexit thread!
    BOOM!
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk280 View Post
    How does placing carbon in every room absorb the waves?

    What waves?

    Are we talking EM?

    How much does it absorb? What frequency?

    Or are we talking water type waves?

    Does it filter crustaceans too?!

    [Please go back to school and learn about real science peeps].
    I've got no idea I obviously don't do it !

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Drago View Post
    I've got no idea I obviously don't do it !
    It’s ok, I don’t like to eat lobsters.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk280 View Post
    It’s ok, I don’t like to eat lobsters.
    Just googled, apparently scientific research shows shungite absorbs electromagnetic radiation.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Drago View Post
    Just googled, apparently scientific research shows shungite absorbs electromagnetic radiation.
    If your google search revealed any real peer reviewed evidence we’d love to see a link to it.

  29. #29
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    I am fascinated.


    Not only does shungite kill EMF radiation, you can also use it to purify water, which then serves as cure against cold and flu, allergies, kidney and liver issues, diabetes, heart disease, fatigue, headaches and broken legs. And the team who have found out received a Nobel prize for it! It's true, I read it on the internet.

    You can order the shungite from my webshop here. Enter 'tinfoil' for a 10% discount.
    Last edited by Raffe; 11th January 2020 at 23:35. Reason: added discount code, just for you!

  30. #30
    Grand Master Mr Curta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Not only does shungite kill EMF radiation, you can also use it to purify water, which then serves as cure against cold and flu, allergies, kidney and liver issues, diabetes, heart disease, fatigue, headaches and broken legs. And the team who have found out received a Nobel prize for it!

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    He's very well qualified, apparently.

    Ah, orthopaedics!

  32. #32
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    I rarely contribute to the forum but this is a topic I know a tiny bit about.

    I cannot offer the OP any advice on full EM shielding but I have just co-invented quite a nice way of absorbing part of the EM spectrum, namely S, X and L band radar using quite clever coatings

    The aim being to make windfarms "invisible" to these radar bands.

    Before anyone calls BS, this coating is now commercialised by Trelleborg; see here: https://www.trelleborg.com/en/applie...nagement/frame.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by gc52 View Post
    I rarely contribute to the forum but this is a topic I know a tiny bit about.

    I cannot offer the OP any advice on full EM shielding but I have just co-invented quite a nice way of absorbing part of the EM spectrum, namely S, X and L band radar using quite clever coatings

    The aim being to make windfarms "invisible" to these radar bands.

    Before anyone calls BS, this coating is now commercialised by Trelleborg; see here: https://www.trelleborg.com/en/applie...nagement/frame.
    That’s some impressive work right there. Dunno why but when I was reading it I had s mental image of polarized glass filtering out “stuff”. Always admire tech like this.

  34. #34
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gc52 View Post
    I rarely contribute to the forum but this is a topic I know a tiny bit about.

    I cannot offer the OP any advice on full EM shielding but I have just co-invented quite a nice way of absorbing part of the EM spectrum, namely S, X and L band radar using quite clever coatings

    The aim being to make windfarms "invisible" to these radar bands.

    Before anyone calls BS, this coating is now commercialised by Trelleborg; see here: https://www.trelleborg.com/en/applie...nagement/frame.
    I don't think anybody suggests that electromagnetic radiation doesn't exist or isn't measurable. The interference with flight radar is a known problem and I have been involved in a project to use drones for measuring radiation interference, attempting to making building permissions for windfarms both speedier as well as cheaper.

    On the other side we have the tinfoil fraction, who are either outright deluded or are just trying to make a profit from the deluded.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    That’s some impressive work right there. Dunno why but when I was reading it I had s mental image of polarized glass filtering out “stuff”. Always admire tech like this.
    Hi Rusty

    Thanks, always good to see research get out of the lab and into the real world.

    As Raffe rightly points out in the post below, such coatings are aimed at making civil or military flights safer in the vicinity of windfarms and to help enable the permission to build.

    Gary

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    I don't think anybody suggests that electromagnetic radiation doesn't exist or isn't measurable. The interference with flight radar is a known problem and I have been involved in a project to use drones for measuring radiation interference, attempting to making building permissions for windfarms both speedier as well as cheaper.

    On the other side we have the tinfoil fraction, who are either outright deluded or are just trying to make a profit from the deluded.
    Hi Raffe

    Our RAM materials aim to absorb specific wavelengths, by up to about 35db, and have been demonstrated to work well on pylons up to 40m in height.

    I appreciate that this is quite small-scale nowadays but we can model what happens with larger structures, of course.

    We are also working on making the turbine blades "invisible ". We can do this easily but integrating our coatings into the blade manufacturing process, with current blades up to ~106m in length, being the challenge.

    Anyway, nice to know that you can use drones to measure the radar signatures. If my colleagues need to carry out such testing, I know who to come to !

    Sorry to the OP for going off-topic.

    Regards

    Gary

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by gc52 View Post
    Hi Raffe

    Our RAM materials aim to absorb specific wavelengths, by up to about 35db, and have been demonstrated to work well on pylons up to 40m in height.

    I appreciate that this is quite small-scale nowadays but we can model what happens with larger structures, of course.

    We are also working on making the turbine blades "invisible ". We can do this easily but integrating our coatings into the blade manufacturing process, with current blades up to ~106m in length, being the challenge.

    Anyway, nice to know that you can use drones to measure the radar signatures. If my colleagues need to carry out such testing, I know who to come to !

    Sorry to the OP for going off-topic.

    Regards

    Gary
    Sorry but I moved on, if needed could put you in touch with the people who I was working with at the time but don't think you need my help as such drone applications are quite mainstream nowadays.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Sorry but I moved on, if needed could put you in touch with the people who I was working with at the time but don't think you need my help as such drone applications are quite mainstream nowadays.
    Thanks for the offer. Will see what testing needs to be done post blade coating development, in the next 4-6 months.

    Gary

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by gc52 View Post
    Thanks for the offer. Will see what testing needs to be done post blade coating development, in the next 4-6 months.

    Gary
    Does shungite actually.absorb any of it Gary or is it all a load of Barry White ?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Drago View Post
    Does shungite actually.absorb any of it Gary or is it all a load of Barry White ?
    Hi Ivan

    Sorry, I could not possibly comment; I have no experience of testing shungite.

    FWIW, our RAM coatings rely on a (slighly) complex multilayer combination of materials and architecture but which do not involve shungite.

    Gary

  41. #41
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    Thanks for the more informative replies. I'm sorry my polite request resulted in quite so much consternation.
    Reservations noted among those who have stated them.
    I remain interested in suggestions and unconvinced that EM shielding is not worthwhile, or at least not a reasonable precaution.
    Rest assured my medical doctor and his colleagues' qualifications are sound. As an academic I do take such matters reasonably seriously.

    AP.

  42. #42
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    If it gives you peace of mind, foil backed plasterboard will do a pretty decent job. There are also RF blocking paints and fabrics available, and whatever they build Tesco Extra supermarkets out of.

    Edit - or get some of these:

    Last edited by Mr Curta; 13th January 2020 at 20:47.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.Pottinger View Post
    I remain interested in suggestions and unconvinced that EM shielding is not worthwhile, or at least not a reasonable precaution.
    How do you protect yourself from the planet when you go out? Full body suit?

  44. #44
    Craftsman TimeThoughts's Avatar
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    This reminds me of a story from about 20 years ago. At that time, personal mobile phones were just becoming common.

    I used to work in Nuclear Power facilities at that time and one of the sites had technology where your phone would go dead as a door nail, zero bars when you passed through the gate.

    One of the lads was keen on this 'blocking' device and wanted to know more. He was convinced that mobile phones were causing brain damage and all that so he wanted to get something like this for his house.

    Turned out that the 'blocker' was in fact flooding the area with signal noise in the same frequency as mobile operators.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeThoughts View Post
    This reminds me of a story from about 20 years ago. At that time, personal mobile phones were just becoming common.

    I used to work in Nuclear Power facilities at that time and one of the sites had technology where your phone would go dead as a door nail, zero bars when you passed through the gate.

    One of the lads was keen on this 'blocking' device and wanted to know more. He was convinced that mobile phones were causing brain damage and all that so he wanted to get something like this for his house.

    Turned out that the 'blocker' was in fact flooding the area with signal noise in the same frequency as mobile operators.
    You were being microwaved: 2.45GHz

    Ping!

  46. #46
    Craftsman TimeThoughts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk280 View Post
    You were being microwaved: 2.45GHz

    Ping!
    Yes, good times !

    Never really bothered me TBH, I reckon we are all living in a sea of natural EM constantly anyway (earth, sun, stars, etc.).

  47. #47
    Master Kirk280's Avatar
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    Edit: 2.45GHz is one of the typical Wi-Fi frequencies, not used by mobile phones - I was getting my wires crossed. Must be all the EM radiation we are exposed to!

    Where is my faraday cage hat?!

  48. #48
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    Google "Faraday cage".
    The principle is that no EM field can penetrate a void enclosed by a conductor.
    In practice you do not need a solid cage, provided the holes in the cage are very much smaller than the wavelength of the EM wave that you are trying to exclude, then the cage will behave as if it were solid.

    So, determine the highest frequency that you wish to exclude, & find the wavelength for that frequency.
    wavelength = propagation velocity / frequency.
    Where the propagation velocity is the speed of light.

    Now divide by at least 10, and that is the maximum dimension for any aperture in the cage.
    Your cage can be any conductive material, must cover all walls and ceilings and must be continuous, with electrical joints along all edges of whatever material you use.

    Building a Faraday cage can be surprisingly expensive.


    Also, if you are doing it for health reasons, it's a waste of time and money. Your health would be better served by ditching the quack and seeking more reasoned advice.

    Remember that there is an industry wide term for alternative medicine that has been proven to work, it is referred to as "medicine"!

  49. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by A.Pottinger View Post
    Thanks for the more informative replies. I'm sorry my polite request resulted in quite so much consternation.
    Reservations noted among those who have stated them.
    I remain interested in suggestions and unconvinced that EM shielding is not worthwhile, or at least not a reasonable precaution.
    Rest assured my medical doctor and his colleagues' qualifications are sound. As an academic I do take such matters reasonably seriously.

    AP.
    As an academic, have you looked at the evidence base concerning harm from the type of EM radiation you are concerned about?

  50. #50
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    Thank's to those who've provided some constructive replies, it's much appreciated. It's good to keep an open mind.
    I regret the more personal comments. It's been a while since I frequented the form and it seems to have changed a bit since.

    Best wishes,

    AP

    PS Alansmithee, as some on the forum are aware I've spent some years where although a full body suit is not advised, a fair bit of body armour is. It's an interesting planet out there.

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