Reply With QuoteCome on, try. I know you can do it. Just a little nod to his racing brilliance.Originally Posted by Happyal
I don't know why you always want to make this about Lewis, but I'll play. I still expected him to win after the penalty, I'm a little disappointed in him. I mean, he can normally walk on water and turn water into wine, why couldn't he win here. Bad show Lewis, better luck next time.
Last edited by Happyal; 6th September 2020 at 16:35.
Come on, try. I know you can do it. Just a little nod to his racing brilliance.
Shame for Hamilton, whoever got there first was going to be caught out.
Made for an interesting race and unusual podium
did Stroll make a pitstop,or did he change his tires under the red flag?
Haha, nice bit of editing AFTER I had quoted you. I’ve said it before, maybe you conveniently forgot or didn’t see it but I’ll say it again. Lewis isn’t my favourite driver on the grid, but unlike you, I can acknowledge his racing brilliance. All I did in my last post was highlight the difference between Lewis cutting through the pack and Valtteri failing to despite them being in the same car.
It’s not opinion, it’s fact. You just don’t seem to like that.
He had a free pit stop. He hadn’t pitted when the race was red flagged.
you expected him to win! Really. Dead last, 15 seconds down the road from the last car with 20 odd laps left to go.
He and the car are very good, but unless he had a warp drive that was never gonna happen.
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So we had a race which saw a poor car and an average driver win, not because of better engineering or driving but by pure luck and this is a good thingThat said, contrats to PG, because he still had to hold off CS for 20+ laps.
However the race raises a few questions in my eyes.
1) Why did KM park his car where he did when it would have been easier to simply coast into the pits (as Vettel did).
2) How much notice were the teams given that both the safety car and pit lane was closed. Especially given it’s a very rare that this happens. So are we talking a few seconds or 10’s of seconds. It’s important as these lights might have come on just as LH reached the corner, having already been told to Box. The cars only a few seconds behind didn’t pit, so did the call come to late for the team/LH to react?
3) Why were the pit closed signals about 100m away on the outside of the corner. A corner that drivers are entering at about 160mph and pulling 4-5g, while looking for the apex. Surely a better place would be on the inside of that corner - in the eye-line of the driver or where KM parked!
4) Why was this a full safety car, rather than a virtual safety, especially as the car could have been dragged backwards a few meters rather than pulling it about 150 meters down the pit lane. Crazy.
That said it did make the race spicy. LH/Mercedes demonstrated exactly why they are top of the tree and a Bottas isn’t. That McLaren, Tracing point, Renault are on the up, Poor result for RB and Ablon might get relegated, Ferrari were shocking and also have a very expensive repair bill and that races can still be decided by the stewards.
The only real positive for Ferrari is that Schumarker’s record not be equaled in Italy next week.
It will not change the outcome of the WDC and WCC, but hopefully it was cause the FIA to think about some things.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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Tedious troll as always
Did Hamiltons engineers not give him a radio message that the pit lane was closed, and if not why not? Surely they will have been told, along with all the other teams.
Stuart
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I can only assume it came to late for them to react. CS was about 6 seconds behind LH, which might have been enough time to relay the message. I can’t believe that Mercedes did it deliberately.
It was a shame because it cost him a certain win.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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Watching the C4 highlights, none of the commentary team knew the pit lane was closed either. Also Gasly pitted just before LH (under yellows), and didn’t get a penalty. All very odd.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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I’m pretty sure Gasly pitted a few laps ahead of Hamilton during normal racing.
Hamilton’s engineers actually told him to box.
Perhaps the highlights were truncated, but it looked as he passed yellow flags on his in lap. He certainly pitted before the safety car call was made.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Great race, it's good to see a genuine race again, with drivers really going for it. Of curse it was lucky, but these things happen and you've got to take your chances.
Well done to Gasly, drove a good race and defended well when needed. Carlos was great, I loved seeing his desire to chase down the win, another lap and he might of had it. And Stroll too, I know he's a pay driver, and not the best on the grid, but I think he's proved once again that he does belong there, he is getting better but still makes the odd mistake.
I'm just glad that we had a real race this season, as the C4 people are saying, it's like a breath of fresh air being breathed into the sport.
It was Gasly who punted Albon off the track at the first chicane. Oh the irony.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
They must have, but before the call was made to close the pit lane. Which begs the question, where was LH on the track when the stewards decided to close the pit lane and inform the teams.
It seems that Toto is equally baffled, as it seem the lights on the outside of the track were yellow.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
It could have been that the stewards decided to close the pit lane before Lewis was given the instruction to box, who knows.
The lights on the outside of the track may have been yellow (it was hard to tell from the onboard shots) but they had big X’s through them which normal yellow flags don’t.
The lights were showing a Red Cross, which could have meant anything, as I said earlier, whoever got there first was going to get caught out
You are old enough to remember John Watson doing something not far from that in a MacLaren more than once in 82 and 83, At Detroit in 82 he went from 17th on the grid to win, passing Lauda, Cheever and Pironi in a single lap and catching and overtaking Rosberg from 17 seconds behind in just 7 laps. At Long Beach he won from starting last on the grid, beating his team mate, Lauda, by 17 seconds in doing so.
And yes, I am also old enough to remember. I was at Silverstone in 1981 for the British Grand Prix when the 'flying Ulsterman' won - he was one of the most exciting drivers to watch back then as he scythed his way through the pack, but doesn't seem to be remembered with the same awe as Piquet or Hunt or Prost and other stars of the time, which I have never understood.
A conspiracy theorist might wonder why they didn’t just push the Haas back 3 metres and wave a yellow flag, far better to completely wreck the race as it was.
I have always been for scrapping qualy and picking the drid positions out of a bag.
AKA The Enstone team.
Broken gearbox apparently, would they have been able to push it in reverse if it's stuck in a fwd gear?
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Ferrari drop racing point appeal, so the matter is closed.
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To a professional racing driver, it means pit lane is closed.
If it were stuck in gear, they’d not be able to push it forward either!
You didn’t watch the video then
The call to close the pit lane, as Magnussen's car couldn't be moved backwards, so was stranded alongside the track in a potentially dangerous position, would have come from the FIA Race Director Michael Masi, Charlie Whiting's successor. It is not the decision of the Stewards.
Any FIA decisions during the race are advised instantly to the teams by radio, and on the screens on the pit wall, and in the garages. So if Hamilton had been called into the pits, and the pit lane had closed when he arrived, the team should have told him to stay out.
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
According to Toto, there wasn’t a radio call, but the notification did appeared on Page 4 of the timing sheets and that the team missed it.
He, and I think Lewis, were pretty sanguine about it, but he might have been less sanguine if Redbull had had a better day.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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I doubt it was stuck in gear, given they pushed down the pit lane.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
I think if LH had started 17th over a full race distance then he would have made the podium. He was able to pull a 15 second lead in the first “race” and made up over 20 seconds in the second. So over full distance had a 40 sec race advantage.
The Detroit race was a bit odd because the average speed was less that 80mph. Half of the average speeds yesterday. Also the fact cars were using different manufacturers tyres also created a bit of a lottery.
Watson was a excellent driver, alas not quite on a par with some of his peers.
Anyway its done now, so we can look forward to next weekend.
Last edited by Andyg; 7th September 2020 at 08:25.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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In fact they could save a lot of time and money and hold a raffle before picking a winner, but making sure everyone gets a prize “for taking part”. No emissions and no disappointments.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
I believe the McLaren's couldn't get their tyres up to temperature in qualifying but in the race they were the fastest by far hence the crazy win for Watson from so far back on the grid.
I saw an interview with Watson in recent years where he said he didn't feel he did anything special in the race, he just drove like he always did but the car just came alive.
It's still the record for the win from furthest back on the grid so hardly representative of a typical situation.
So Hamilton actually entered the pit lane 2 seconds after the signs were turned on and the teams informed,
https://www.skysports.com/f1
So totally unavoidable!
12 seconds but I do get that he wasn't looking at the signs (he was looking where he was going) or looking for them (he appears not to have known that they were there). Also I don't know how committed he was to coming in 12 seconds out. I guess one thing about F1 is that things happen fast and drivers and teams have to react to stuff pretty much instantly. In the end it won't make a difference to Mercedes - they'll still win everything they were going to win but it made for a more interesting race. Nice for Gasly to get the win - he's certainly not the first driver to win with a bit of good fortune on their side.
Yes, I saw the two crossed marker boards............= Pit lane closed.
Were you there then, it took the tv companies ages to find a shot of them
You did indeed, however you saw them from the camera in LH car, so they may have illuminated an instant before coming into camera shot. But rules are rules
“A bit harsh” on LH to quote DC.
Last edited by Andyg; 7th September 2020 at 16:07.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Lest we forget Jenson Buttons, last to first win in Canada 2011 (in the wet). One of best races ever in the modern era, especially when you look who else was on the grid.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Seems as though the system isn't ideal for notifying about the closure, but the rules are the rules.
I imagine they'll implement a clearer system in future, even though it's not a common occurrence.
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I’m not sure about Hamilton but most people expect traffic lights at the pit entry and exit
Someone (at Mercedes) hadn't done their homework.
I don't expect they'll make the same mistake again.Masi’s pre-weekend event notes contain specific notes relating to the track light panels “displaying pit entry status”, including: “The light panel indicated on the pitlane map will display a flashing red cross if the pit lane is closed at any point during the race.”
These pit entry status panels are marked on a map within the document.
“The map detailing those is distributed to all the teams in my event notes and is part of the pitlane diagram,” said Masi.
“It is also what forms part of the race director event notes which is used for the driver’s meeting.”
When asked if that signal was the same at all tracks, Masi replied: “It’s identical.”
Only watched the highlights but there was footage from LH’s car showing him passing two lit signs showing pit lane closed markers, due to the position of pit lane entry traffic lights on the entry might be too late for a driver to see and abort entry? but since there hasn’t lights there before drivers need to be aware of the warning markers around the track.
A display board on the right side of the circuit by the marshals post would have helped.
Not sure about this, but at least they are trying some new ideas
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/54063417
No accreditation, just sources, they are inventing it
There is a long straight before that corner with more than enough room to have a sign (Over the track would be ideal) indicating whether or not the pit lane was open or closed. Having the indication a couple of 100 meters before the entrance, on the outside of a fast corner like Parabolica, across a run off areas, is frankly stupid.
But not as stupid as having a gap in wall to small to get a car through.
The funny thing is that if Lewis had entered the pit lane area and then driven across the grass back on the track there is a chance he might have got a penalty for joining the track in an unsafe manner.
This was quite interesting and provides the stewards take on it https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...ed-pit-penalty
Bottomline is that Lewis was at the entry to Parabolica when the Lights came on so had zero time to react, even if he had see them (which he didn’t)
Bad news for LH, great news for Liberty, F1 and FIA by creating a lot of media interest. If I was a cynic I might think that it was done on purpose to mix up the race a bit, especially as I very might doubt it would have happened if CLC was leading the race. But I am not a cynic
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Could you be any more bitter about Hamilton not winning?
BBC virtually signalling but the looks of it. But if they do instigate something like this it would cannot happen mid-season. Plus the concept is flawed because some teams would Sandbag in the main Race, in the hope of getting points in the sprint race. And would these Sprint race points be of equal value or would the main race attract a higher point value?
Plus they would have to drop some circuits like Monaco because a reserve grid race there would be a bigger joke than the current race.
Perhaps the answer is two championships. The normal F1 Grand Prix championship (Sunday) and a second “Sprint F1 World Championship“, where grid positions are picked at random run on a Saturday. Fastest lap time in the sprint race decides the grid positions for the main race.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
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