Or Damon Hill?Originally Posted by hogthrob
Just read that Pirelli have selected the C1, C2 and C3 compounds for Sunday’s race.
https://www.f1network.net/main/s107/st200526.htm
I most say for something so boring, I am finding F1 very exciting this year. Perhaps it’s the back to back nature of the racing.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Button was a very good driver and racer, just a bit unfortunate in is team (and team mate) selection. As an aside, he drove more F1 races than Schumacher. He only scored 15 wins, and 14 of those occurred between 2009-2012
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
The Mercedes engined teams have been scared off, only Renault and Ferrari left, who is running Formula one?
From BBC news:
"Staggeringly, since Bottas joined Mercedes at the start of 2017, he has recorded the same number of wins as Verstappen - eight. Despite the Dutchman generally having the third best car in the field."
Still think the driver doesn't matter?
Interesting factoid...
Surely one would have to then look at all of those races and show why the Mercs didn’t win, Mexico is obvious but what about the others?
It would be interesting to see how many points both drivers had amassed, number of podiums, pole positions, number of unforced errors, finishes, overtakes and offs. Picking a single stat can be misleading
Personally I think MS is a better driver/racer than VB, but VB is more consistent/steady, a better team player, etc. However MV certainly wins in the ego stakes, but if he wants to set any records he really needs to up his game. 9 wins in 5 seasons is nothing to shout about.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
The comparison is skewed anyhow as it does not factor in Hamilton and team orders. Ergo too may variables.
Looking at the championship results since the new tech, both manufacturer and driver, the glaringly obvious is that the car is the crucial factor.
For the rest the way the cars work pretty much eliminates on track battles so leaves preciously few direct comparisons of driving skills with ´safety conscious´ rules and fuel limits minimising them further still.
With the exception of too on track few racing moves the F1 circus is more high speed chess than a battle of racing drivers. While I think the game is interesting and the tech is jaw dropping, to wátch racing action it is MotoGP with a difference.
In fairness he has probably out performed the car, the Mercedes dominance skews the picture when just looking at the results, also for much of that time the Red Bull has been the third best car on the grid.
Coming weekend, Barcelona, will nót be a hot one. Weather forecast is sub 30ties and 50% chance of a shower on Sunday.
So, bar the unexpected, most likely another Mercedes weekend
And that’s the thing, the really great drivers out perform the cars, Alonso being a great example of being able to do that.
Cheers..
Jase
I cant see this making much difference
https://www.racefans.net/2020/08/12/...tings-in-2021/
I suspect that you may be right, Adrian. It's likely that all engine manufacturers have had to develop a qualifying engine map, simply because Mercedes had one, so this looks like shutting the stable door long after the horse has vacated the premises.
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
I will never get the Alonso adoration. To many bad decision, scandals and a poor attitude in my book. Perhaps he should have accepted Red Bulls offer in 2009 and it might have been a different story.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
People are talking about his driving ability Andy. He DID always get 100% and more out of the cars he drove.
Yes controversy follows him, but his driving ability is in no doubt. Let’s not compare his stint against Lewis because Lewis is after all a 6 time world champion.
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Just my opinion. It will be interesting to see how he fares if he returns to F1 (Renault)?
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
I'm not sure how that would even work. Are they talking about banning different engine maps? Or else they'd surely start on a quali map and turn it off on lap 1?
Surely it is a feeble attempt at BOP
Nothing wrong with Vettels chassis, just change it for the hell of it
I would like to see an end to all maps. Have a single map for each race and that’s it. The ultimate control should be the accelerator and perhaps a big red boost button for overtakes (only available during the DRS).
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
So the engines are designed from day 1 to have multiple maps to increase longevity etc. Abandon that and have what, the safest map? Which no doubt increases the mercedes advantage?
I really dislike DRS. No skill in overtaking with it.
A boost button would be cool, everyone has a set boost ‘pot’ they can use whenever they need it, once it’s gone it’s gone. Maybe a NOS bottle 😁.
Cheers..
Jase
Really!
These engines are on the edge, they need different maps to cope with oxygen levels, heat, torque and rpm, most use ruse of rate of rpm to improve traction, sorry but that was a rubbish thing to say.
All they could do is peg boost as they do in Indy cars.
A NOS button would be cool. Very Mad Max, and yes, a limited number of squirts, but only available in the DRS zone.
Actually it wouldn't need to be NOS, it could be an additional charge from the hybrid unit. A Ludicrous mode.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
They already limit revs, fuel types and fuel consumption, so hardly on the edge. All I am saying why not have multiple maps available for practice, but make the team/driver to pick one for qualifying and the race. If the weather, etc changes, then tough.
It would spice it up a bit, reduce costs and level the pitch.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
In that case we may as well have all the F1 drivers racing identical Ford Transits.
"A man of little significance"
Good call.
https://www.automobilemag.com/news/f...ervan-history/
No, it would reduce reliability and increase costs. As things stand the teams can monitor the pu, and the drive can select a different map if required. Remove that, and you'll have more engines going pop.
You are showing a massive lack of knowledge regarding engine calibration, you know the adage until I know what I'm talking about?
These engines are knock limited.
Far more importantly Vettel is going much better with his shiny new chassis
this is funny
https://twitter.com/GeorgeRussell63/...199068160?s=19
Looks like they'll be limited to one map very soon. Possibly as early as next weekend!
Edit:dodgy article I was reading from. Looks like from spa, and they'll be forced to use any map from quali for a certain percentage of the race
Last edited by WarrenVrs; 14th August 2020 at 13:16.
Hardly identical unless the Ford Transits have engines from Renault, Ferrari, Honda, and Mercedes, Plus it also assumes they have identical suspension, tyres, aero, brakes, exhaust systems, which of course they don’t.
So nothing like F1 drivers racing identical Ford Transits.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
I know enough that maps are tweaked to maximise BHP, revs, where in the Torque max power is delivered, fuel mixture, etc and that it’s maximised to take consideration of atmospherics, ambient temps and RON fuel rating. I also know that most cars have a single map available to it and unless you get it “remapped” than you have to live with it. It is after all a few lines of code. I can “switch” maps in my car, however I can only do this by switching EPROM in the ECU.
The difference in an F1 cars is that they have numerous different maps installed and the drivers can switch between them at any point during the race. All I am suggesting is that they remove the switch during the race.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
There is a direct correlation between max bhp and torque, torque x rpm divided by 5252, they will just use the power to match the circuit, far more importantly this won’t stop them adjusting the battery output so will make absolutely no difference. The tyre wear issue is one of geometry not torque
With single maps either it will become even more boring or more engines will go bang
As I have said before the answer is to limit boost, blow of valves like Indy cars
If Toto leaves Mercedes he will be sorely missed. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53778066
Where would that leave Hamilton, I wonder.
I think it’s posturing, it wouldn’t be the first time I’ve been wrong though
Back in the day, engines had normal timing gear and it didn’t make it boring. As for reliability, its much higher today partly due to better lubricates, composite/exotic Materials, better and more precise engineering and lower tolerances, etc, plus if you tune an engine for ultimate power, you are likely to also tune it for maximum smoke as wella balancing act which good mechanics understand.
Regarding the tyre wear, I sort of agree however it’s not just geometry. It’s also aero as well as torque, especially as these cars can pretty much spin up the rears in every gear (which is perhaps why we hear so much about “short shifting”). Finally one of the biggest factors in tyre wear is the driver and how “smooth“ they are on track, especially on abrasive tracks.
Reducing boost would simply reduce the maximum BHP available, and therefore torque but it wouldn't change much if teams still had multiple maps they could use during the race and qualifying. Changing maps mid race is the equivalent of giving a a race horse doses of speed and adrenaline during the race.
Another alternative could be simply to lower the Rev limiter from 15500 to say 14000, but it still doesn't address the “multiple maps” Issue.
Last edited by Andyg; 14th August 2020 at 19:49.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Posturing. Especially given he owns 30% of the team, unless of course he has a buyer.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Right first day of training as expected.
1,2 Mercedes, Verstappen putting the RB higher than where i has any right to be.
Don't know what program the different cars are on, wait until quali to see where the other Red Bull is. The teams have so much data for this track, the team mates normally line up next to each other.
If today’s F3 race was anything to go by, I’m hoping the F1 tyres fall apart, otherwise it’s going to be a precession
Weather forecast is quite cool weather and 95% probablilty of sóme rain between 12.00 and 18.00. Thus, if you have anything else to do ....
In contrast, Moto2 practice top 14 are covered by just over 3 tenths of a second!
Last edited by Huertecilla; 15th August 2020 at 12:19.
The Spa 6 hours endurance race is about to start for those waiting for qualifying. Looks very wet so should be interesting.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
That makes four Mercs split by Verstappen...
All four Mercs in the top five.............................who says it’s not the car
Very typical Barca Quali result, the cars lined up 2 by 2 (almost)
I don't think they should do testing on a track they race on, they end up with too much data and a pretty much perfect setup.
Of course the car plays a part. When exactly wasn’t that the case?
What however is more interesting was that MV being able to get 3rd, and the respective performance of the Racing Points (which will really upset Ferrari, Renault), McLaren who seem to be steadily improving, Renault who seemed to go backwards this weekend and of course Ferrari, with Vettel failing to get out of Q2 (if only by 0.002 sec), yet again.
Hopefully we will see a battle between the Mercs (assuming no team orders lolz) a battle between Mv and SP over who can take each other out - that could be quite spicy, followed by an interesting battle between the rest down to about 13rd place. Should be quite a tussle between Albon, Gasly, Norris and CLC - the young Turks.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Go on , now say Stroll is the fifth best driver on that grid
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