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Thread: Formula 1 2020

  1. #1951
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    Ejection seat G force injuries occur because the acceleration compresses the spine, the crash deceleration was the perpendicular to the spine. I think Grosjean has his seatbelts and especially the HANS system to thank for his survival, (after the survival tub and halo did their work!)

  2. #1952
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    Quote Originally Posted by in_denial View Post
    Ejection seat G force injuries occur because the acceleration compresses the spine, the crash deceleration was the perpendicular to the spine. I think Grosjean has his seatbelts and especially the HANS system to thank for his survival, (after the survival tub and halo did their work!)
    Ejection seat injuries from modern seats are minor aside from very low and slow ejections. I flew Jet Provosts during training and they had old explosive style seats. Operationally I flew Tornado GR1 with far more modern seats but thankfully never had to eject from either, though came uncomfortably close once in the Jet Provost. Seatbelts and HANS devices don't diminish the g force in any way and 54g is, generally, felt to be bordering on unsurvivable which makes his self-extrication all the more remarkable.

  3. #1953
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    It's pretty amazing what the human body can survive...NASCAR's Hardest Crash:

    Sebastien Bourdais' recent wreck at Indianapolis sustained an astonishing 118 G's at impact. That's 118 times the normal force of gravity and for a brief instant he was subjected to a force 118 times his body weight. The crash was only slightly less severe than James Hinchcliffe's crash at Indy in 2015 which measured 126 G's. Kenny Brack's accident at Texas in 2003 measured 193 G's, nearly double the 'force' of any other IndyCar crash to that point. Some sources say that Brack's crash was the highest G-force a human has ever survived...


    Edit See the end of this article...link...for some figures from F1.
    Last edited by PickleB; 2nd December 2020 at 05:01.

  4. #1954
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    I was correct ( makes a change) George Russell is to sit in for Hamilton for at least the next race.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve27752 View Post
    I was correct ( makes a change) George Russell is to sit in for Hamilton for at least the next race.

    Let's see if he can continue his form of out-qualifying his team-mate.

    Good luck, George - hopefully here come your first F1 points

  6. #1956
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    So George is replacing Hamilton and oddly I am unsure how I feel about it.

    Firstly I feel for VanDoorne. Reserve driver for a year, but not actually.

    Secondly I’m not sure how this will play out. If George fails to beat Bottas, then will he be failure (in spite of the lack of car time), if George does a Hamilton and blows everyone away, then is he the next Senna or “it’s the car”. One thing is certain, some people will not be happy regardless.

    For me, success would be points. I wish him the very best of luck and hope to see him going wheel to wheel with Max, Albon, LeClerc and the rest of the young guns.

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  7. #1957
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    So George is replacing Hamilton and oddly I am unsure how I feel about it.

    Firstly I feel for VanDoorne. Reserve driver for a year, but not actually.

    Secondly I’m not sure how this will play out. If George fails to beat Bottas, then will he be failure (in spite of the lack of car time), if George does a Hamilton and blows everyone away, then is he the next Senna or “it’s the car”. One thing is certain, some people will not be happy regardless.

    For me, success would be points. I wish him the very best of luck and hope to see him going wheel to wheel with Max, Albon, LeClerc and the rest of the young guns.
    Bottas is no slouch, George should be able to drive the car quickly, but he will not know it's little traits and tricks (steering wheel settings etc) that Lewis and Bottas know.
    If George can qualify in the top four and finish in the top three that would be a great achievement for his first race in the car. And it would be good points for the constructors championship.

  8. #1958
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    So George is replacing Hamilton and oddly I am unsure how I feel about it.

    Firstly I feel for VanDoorne. Reserve driver for a year, but not actually.

    Secondly I’m not sure how this will play out. If George fails to beat Bottas, then will he be failure (in spite of the lack of car time), if George does a Hamilton and blows everyone away, then is he the next Senna or “it’s the car”. One thing is certain, some people will not be happy regardless.

    For me, success would be points. I wish him the very best of luck and hope to see him going wheel to wheel with Max, Albon, LeClerc and the rest of the young guns.
    I broadly agree with most of that, Im not sure though that if he fails to beat Bottas he will be seen as a failure, VBs experience with the car is such a advantage, like you, I think a points finish will be success. Great experience for him to be at the sharp end though.
    Cheers..
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  9. #1959
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    Quote Originally Posted by amnesia View Post
    Let's see if he can continue his form of out-qualifying his team-mate.

    Good luck, George - hopefully here come your first F1 points
    Yeah that'll be interesting.
    Either way it won't work well for Bottas, if he out qualifies George people will just say that it's because he's used to the car, if George out qualifies him, then he's not good enough. Can't win!

  10. #1960
    Some easy money to be made this week for those that think Hamilton’s success is down to the car. Pretty sure you’ll get decent odds on George Russell winning the Grand Prix this weekend in Lewis’ car. Money where your mouth is time.

  11. #1961
    I actually think Russell is in with a good shot of winning. The track this week is a fairly easy one with long straights and flowing corners. The Mercedes is a very stable car, I suspect of all the cars on the grid it would be the easiest to get to grip with for a new driver. I would not be surprised if Russell got in and was fast.

    IMHO he is potentially the better of the young Brits on the grid. Looking forward to see what he can do. As a Ferrari supporter I have to look for excitement elsewhere on race day this year, and probably next year also.

  12. #1962
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    Quote Originally Posted by LukeBird View Post
    Yeah that'll be interesting.
    Either way it won't work well for Bottas, if he out qualifies George people will just say that it's because he's used to the car, if George out qualifies him, then he's not good enough. Can't win!
    Very much agree. Not sure anyone will actually win, given the hype around Russel, most of them failing to recognise that the car is very much set up for Hamilton, or that he has been driving a Williams for 2 years.

    But if he wins he will either be a motoring god or “It’s the car”. If he out performs Bottas, then Bottas is crap (which would be bad given that Mercedes have already signed him for 2019). If he bins it, then clearly he isn’t ready to step up.

    The “best” result for Mercedes would most likely be a win for Bottas with Russell finishing somewhere in the top 5, with the two Tracing Points finishing off the Podium and McLaren finishing ahead of RBR, Renault and Ferrari. It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if we didn’t see team orders to make sure Bottas finishes ahead of Max, to help him secure 2nd place in WDC.

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  13. #1963
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    FP1 has certainly gone well for George Russell; an extremely impressive start to his weekend.

  14. #1964
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    Russell tops in FP1 and FP2, but as we have seen previously races, that matters little, because it what happens in Q3 and the race that really matters. But fair play, he drove well and Bottas did look rather shaky in both sessions.

    It will be an interesting weekend made even more interesting that Elfyn Evans has a very good chance of becoming the first British Rally driver to win the World Rally Championship since Richard Burns.

    Happy days 👍

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  15. #1965
    Watched an interview with George yestarday and he was explaining that the car has been developed for Lewis and Valtteri who are both quite short. 5ft 7ish, he is 6ft2 with size 11.5 feet which are to big for the pedals, the high-tec solution they have come up with is for hin to wear smaller shoes that dont fit his feet. he was also explaing that the steering wheel layout is completley different as well, although they have configured some of the switches so they more closely resemble his williams. All that being said surely everybody involved would be slightly dissapointed with any position not on the podium. As has been said above the course is new to everyone and there are only 3 vital corners to get right the rest being relativly straight forward. I am looking forward to the Qualifying as George has not been out Qualified by a team mate in nearly 2 years. That being said i do not expect him to out qualify Bottas, but then again all the pressure is on Bottas but i expect George to be closer to Bottas than Albon will be to Max which in itself will speak volumes. Come on George grab this opportunity with both hands and show us your a future world champ in the making.Cant wait to see what happens.

  16. #1966
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    I think a bit of perspective is important.

    Russell (now 22) is a former F4, F3 and F2 champion with 36 GPs under his belt, albeit in a dog of car.

    Hamilton was also 22, and a F4, F3 and F2 champion at the start of 2007. In his first race (Australia), he managed to qualify 4th and secured 3rd on the podium. Pretty good for a newbie.

    Now excluding the differences tracks, tyre wear, etc, etc, plus that the Mercedes car is dominate, it’s not an unreasonable expectation (IMHO) that Russell should least match Hamilton’s first race qualification and race achievements. Assuming of course he finishes.

    More importantly, for Bottas, the pressure is on and he really needs to step up and out perform Russell, otherwise he can pretty kiss his seat goodbye (irrespective of his 2021 contract).

    Cometh the hour, cometh the man

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  17. #1967
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    Excellent pole by Bottas, but Russell was so close, but I cannot help thinking it was the right result for Mercedes.

    Great performance by LeClerc (which was a bit unexpected) and of course MV and DK. Although I imagine that Max will be a bit miffed to have been beaten by Russell.

    Rather isappointed by McLaren and Tracing point, but tomorrow is another day.

    And some say that F1 in boring

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  18. #1968
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    Young man Russell chasing Hamilton for his signature.

  19. #1969
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    I think a bit of perspective is important.

    Russell (now 22) is a former F4, F3 and F2 champion with 36 GPs under his belt, albeit in a dog of car.

    Hamilton was also 22, and a F4, F3 and F2 champion at the start of 2007. In his first race (Australia), he managed to qualify 4th and secured 3rd on the podium. Pretty good for a newbie.

    Now excluding the differences tracks, tyre wear, etc, etc, plus that the Mercedes car is dominate, it’s not an unreasonable expectation (IMHO) that Russell should least match Hamilton’s first race qualification and race achievements. Assuming of course he finishes.

    More importantly, for Bottas, the pressure is on and he really needs to step up and out perform Russell, otherwise he can pretty kiss his seat goodbye (irrespective of his 2021 contract).

    Cometh the hour, cometh the man
    I don’t think this is a fair comparison. Prior to the season start in Australia, Lewis would have completed two weeks winter testing in the car doing hundreds of laps, plus countless laps on the simulator and using a steering wheel he would have been completely familiar with.
    George has had a lot less track time to get used to the car.

  20. #1970
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    The cars the star.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  21. #1971
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post


    Young man Russell chasing Hamilton for his signature.
    What a great pic!

  22. #1972
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    'Stars of tomorrow' sign in the background too!

  23. #1973
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    I don’t think this is a fair comparison. Prior to the season start in Australia, Lewis would have completed two weeks winter testing in the car doing hundreds of laps, plus countless laps on the simulator and using a steering wheel he would have been completely familiar with.
    George has had a lot less track time to get used to the car.
    Checks and balances I suppose. Yes Hamilton would have had test miles under his belt, but i doubt he would have access to the same SIMs used by Russell, plus don’t forget Russell also has 36 GP experience to call on. Not having a car that actually fitted him, makes Russell’s performance even more amazing.

    However my point is both drivers have similar pedigree in the lower formulas, hence I would expect them to have similar performance. Both are mightily quick and Russell certainly delivered today. It will be interesting to see if he can deliver a similar performance over 80+ laps tomorrow. Hopefully a podium is on.

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  24. #1974
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    The cars the star.
    Yep. I think that was proved today. Not saying Lewis is not a star. But the car definitely is.

  25. #1975
    How about some praise for Russell after a quite phenomenal performance regardless of what car he was driving?

    He's not just any driver picked from the field, he's earnt this shot in a Mercedes based on his whole racing career so far (in the same way Lewis earnt his chance at Mercedes in 2013).

    Bottas is no mug, he was well rated before he joined Mercedes after beating Maldonado and Massa at Williams. And yes they're not the best F1 drivers ever but when Alonso comfortably beat Massa at Ferrari (with clear no.1 status) I don't recall fans saying it was because Massa was "just an average driver", instead the opinion was that Alonso was "out driving the car".

    Even allowing for the short track, Max was a lot closer to pole today than in most Q3 sessions this year. And let's see how the race goes as Lewis's pace advantage over Bottas this season has been mainly in the races.

    I'm really excited to see how Russell gets on today. Realistically he can't be expected to be on Bottas's pace for the whole race given his limited time in the car. I think a podium would still be an impressive result and anything above 3rd would be quite incredible.
    Last edited by watchcollector1; 6th December 2020 at 10:16.

  26. #1976
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    Gutted for George but delighted for Perez.

  27. #1977
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    A bit gutted for Russell, he deserved better luck today. Great drive overall and shows what a driver who is normally last can do in such a dominate car. I just hope he pasted his audition.

    But I'm really happy for Perez, great drive by him and he's deserved so luck. Again, I hope he has past his audition too :)

  28. #1978
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    Gutted for George but delighted for Perez.
    Hear, hear.

  29. #1979
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happyal View Post
    A bit gutted for Russell, he deserved better luck today. Great drive overall and shows what a driver who is normally last can do in such a dominate car. I just hope he pasted his audition.

    But I'm really happy for Perez, great drive by him and he's deserved so luck. Again, I hope he has past his audition too :)
    Totally agree that with the caveat; “great driver” with a “poor car” that “usually finishes in the bottom 5” can do with such a “great car”.
    Ps

    George is the highest scoring F2 driver of all time .

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    Thumbs up

    I think that could have sealed Albans fate.

  31. #1981
    In short, probably the best result all in all. Perez got to stick two fingers up at RP for dropping him with his well deserved win and Russell proved his worth, though I'm still gutted he didn't get the win that was on.

  32. #1982
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanm_3 View Post
    I think that could have sealed Albans fate.
    Perez has got to look like an attractive proposition, for Red Bull

  33. #1983
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    Which of us can say they did not enjoy watching that race?

  34. #1984
    Superb drives by both Russell and Perez.

    Very exciting race.
    Andy

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  35. #1985
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guido-K View Post
    Totally agree that with the caveat; “great driver” with a “poor car” that “usually finishes in the bottom 5” can do with such a “great car”.
    Ps

    George is the highest scoring F2 driver of all time .
    In all seriousness, you've got to be thinking that there are some board members at Mercedes thinking very carefully about this now. They have had to let people go, they had to furlow some staff during the shut down, you've got 1 driver who is asking for US$50m a season and you've got another who is currently earning US$200K a season. They are going to win anyway, they have to be thinking about it.

    Ferrari when through something similar last season with Vettel being shown up by Charles, they've gone down the cheaper & younger route.

  36. #1986
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    Gutted for George Russell, pleased for Sergio Perez and Racing Point. It's difficult to make generalisations from a single race but Mercedes have to be looking at Bottas' position and Christian Horner must be looking at taking Perez over Albon. Some interesting telephone calls between this race and the next and afterwards. I can't see Hamilton returning 4 negative tests before Thursday so George Russell will get another chance.

  37. #1987
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skier View Post
    Gutted for George Russell, pleased for Sergio Perez and Racing Point. It's difficult to make generalisations from a single race but Mercedes have to be looking at Bottas' position and Christian Horner must be looking at taking Perez over Albon. Some interesting telephone calls between this race and the next and afterwards. I can't see Hamilton returning 4 negative tests before Thursday so George Russell will get another chance.
    Agreed, even if was a bit of an own goal by Mercedes, but I think Russell demonstrated his pedigree, in spades, (and demonstrated just how much of a dog the Williams is). His first points and a fastest lap. It wasn’t what he hoped for, but he would have gained massive experience from it. Listening to Toto, it sounds as if it certainly won’t be the last time we see him in a Mercedes. As for Bottas - dead man walking, along with Albon I feel. I thought Stroll did well, as did Ocon.

    All in all an enjoyable and entertaining race.

    For me however for me one of the biggest talking points was LeClerc “sending it” up the inside (again) and this time hitting Perez and causing Max to fall off the track. Hopefully he will get a penalty because it’s starting to become a bit of habit.

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  38. #1988
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happyal View Post
    In all seriousness, you've got to be thinking that there are some board members at Mercedes thinking very carefully about this now. They have had to let people go, they had to furlow some staff during the shut down, you've got 1 driver who is asking for US$50m a season and you've got another who is currently earning US$200K a season. They are going to win anyway, they have to be thinking about it.

    Ferrari when through something similar last season with Vettel being shown up by Charles, they've gone down the cheaper & younger route.
    I think Mercedes (Daimler-Benz;probably more so than the F1 team), recognise the marketing appeal that Hamilton has. He probably the only F1 driver that’s well known in the US of A; and the “bragging rights” of having the “most successful” F1 driver of all time.

    It would make more sense IMHO, to drop Valterri (my Finnish father-in-law would hate me for saying this), and partner Lewis with George. I think George would learn a lot from having Lewis as a team mate (and, if the pairing was over 3 years; I think there would be a changing of the guard).

    2 phenomenal drivers, old and the new......

    Would be very bad news for Max Verstappen (and I bet he is pooing himself that George might get a merc seat).

  39. #1989
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Agreed, even if was a bit of an own goal by Mercedes, but I think Russell demonstrated his pedigree, in spades, (and demonstrated just how much of a dog the Williams is). His first points and a fastest lap. It wasn’t what he hoped for, but he would have gained massive experience from it. Listening to Toto, it sounds as if it certainly won’t be the last time we see him in a Mercedes. As for Bottas - dead man walking, along with Albon I feel. I thought Stroll did well, as did Ocon.

    All in all an enjoyable and entertaining race.

    For me however for me one of the biggest talking points was LeClerc “sending it” up the inside (again) and this time hitting Perez and causing Max to fall off the track. Hopefully he will get a penalty because it’s starting to become a bit of habit.
    Agree Andy

    But I cannot help be feel frustration/desperation is the cause; he is literally putting that Ferrari where it has no right to be (no pun intended).

  40. #1990
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happyal View Post
    In all seriousness, you've got to be thinking that there are some board members at Mercedes thinking very carefully about this now. They have had to let people go, they had to furlow some staff during the shut down, you've got 1 driver who is asking for US$50m a season and you've got another who is currently earning US$200K a season. They are going to win anyway, they have to be thinking about it.

    Ferrari when through something similar last season with Vettel being shown up by Charles, they've gone down the cheaper & younger route.

    Did you not listen to the post race interview with Toto? According to him (he is the Team Principle) Hamilton is the benchmark, he is a proven winner, makes a massive contribution to the team, and is 7 times WDC. Plus do you really think Mercedes will make decisions like this on the basis on ONE race? In all seriousness

    As for Hamilton wages, it’s small beer for Mercedes given what they spend on Motorsport, branding and what he delivers to Mercedes, especially when it’s still about $30m less that Schumy was getting paid at Ferrari in 2000’s.

    But if they do need to save some money then surely the most obvious ways would be to sack Bottas who clearly is lacking at the moment, and give 70% of his salary to Russell.

    At least you cannot bring out the old trope “It’s the car”, because in this case it wasn’t. I look forward to your explanation of how the super dominant Mercedes W11 could only finish 8 and 9?

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  41. #1991
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happyal View Post
    In all seriousness, you've got to be thinking that there are some board members at Mercedes thinking very carefully about this now.
    I would have thought that MB want a principal driver and a support driver, not two principal drivers

    Bottas has his place in the team.

  42. #1992
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guido-K View Post
    I think Mercedes (Daimler-Benz;probably more so than the F1 team), recognise the marketing appeal that Hamilton has. He probably the only F1 driver that’s well known in the US of A; and the “bragging rights” of having the “most successful” F1 driver of all time.

    It would make more sense IMHO, to drop Valterri (my Finnish father-in-law would hate me for saying this), and partner Lewis with George. I think George would learn a lot from having Lewis as a team mate (and, if the pairing was over 3 years; I think there would be a changing of the guard).

    2 phenomenal drivers, old and the new......

    Would be very bad news for Max Verstappen (and I bet he is pooing himself that George might get a merc seat).
    This, especially for Max as his chances of ever getting a Mercedes seat is looking very poor now. Maybe a seat at Ferrari (who at least can offer an engine in 2022).
    Last edited by Andyg; 6th December 2020 at 21:48.

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  43. #1993
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackal View Post
    I would have thought that MB want a principal driver and a support driver, not two principal drivers

    Bottas has his place in the team.
    I don’t think that is the case. I genuinely think they actually want two top drivers, who can be disciplined, who race fair, who do not take each out and understand the importance of “team”.

    Hamilton got that email, but I don’t think Nico did. Bottas was onboard, but he has lost form over the last couple of seasons (not helped by the breakup of his marriage) and perhaps now might be the time to release him back to Williams in exchange for Russell. Bottas gets a parachute, Russell gets a seat that I think he deserves. Lewis gets an apprentice to nurture and develop over the next couple of seasons. More legacy for Hamilton.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    At least you cannot bring out the old trope “It’s the car”, because in this case it wasn’t. I look forward to your explanation of how the super dominant Mercedes W11 could only finish 8 and 9?
    Haha, good joke, I mean up until the safety car and Mercedes messing up the pit stops the car was easily 1 and 2. Even after messing up Russell's tires it still looked like he was going to win. Of course it's the car, Russell proves that beyond a doubt, putting a guy who has never won a single point in F1 into it, and he should of won the race with even a tiny bit of luck.

    Lets not forget too that just because the 2020 Mercedes messed up, the 2019 won and came third. The car is that dominate that the year old car wins.
    Last edited by Happyal; 6th December 2020 at 22:05.

  45. #1995
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    Last edited by Happyal; 6th December 2020 at 22:27.

  46. #1996
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    I don’t think that is the case. I genuinely think they actually want two top drivers, who can be disciplined, who race fair, who do not take each out and understand the importance of “team”.

    Hamilton got that email, but I don’t think Nico did. Bottas was onboard, but he has lost form over the last couple of seasons (not helped by the breakup of his marriage) and perhaps now might be the time to release him back to Williams in exchange for Russell. Bottas gets a parachute, Russell gets a seat that I think he deserves. Lewis gets an apprentice to nurture and develop over the next couple of seasons. More legacy for Hamilton.
    I think the danger of that, is Hamilton damaging the career of Russell, which would the most likely outcome.

    The more time goes on, the more I respect what Nico managed to achieve. He was in danger of being steamrolled by Hamilton, but he took himself to a place that most can't in order to get the job done. It was so demanding of him that it wasn't sustainable, but he's the only teammate to beat Hamilton over a season when it really mattered.

  47. #1997
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    Was it 40 million Hamilton was asking for

    Mercedes maybe need to rethink their strategy


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    Hamilton wanted to be at the race and Wolf said ok, they put him out the back sorting the tyres out. 🤣🤣🤣

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    Quote Originally Posted by Happyal View Post
    Made my morning so so true...

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    Quote Originally Posted by WarrenVrs View Post
    I think the danger of that, is Hamilton damaging the career of Russell, which would the most likely outcome.

    The more time goes on, the more I respect what Nico managed to achieve. He was in danger of being steamrolled by Hamilton, but he took himself to a place that most can't in order to get the job done. It was so demanding of him that it wasn't sustainable, but he's the only teammate to beat Hamilton over a season when it really mattered.

    Err? On what basis have you come to that conclusion? Also you are wrong. Button beat Hamilton during their 2012 season at McLaren

    However Nico was better that Bottas, who really pushed Hamilton between 2013 to 2016, but Nico only managed to actually beat him in 2016, because of Hamilton’s DNF at Malaysia (whilst LH was leading) and then by only 5 points. Nico was a great driver, but the simply fact (and you might hate this) is that Hamilton is better and more consistent over the 40 races they had together. Which perhaps Nico understood and why he quit at the end of the season, rather than trying again at an inferior team.

    I have zero doubt that if Russell was to join Mercedes, a) Hamilton would be happy to work with Russell, b) they would be allowed to race, c) Hamilton would beat him(at least for a couple of seasons, simply because he has more experience of winning. If you have any evidence to suggest otherwise then please share.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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